wedgetail737
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AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Sun May 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Hello, everyone!

It's been a while since I've flown on an ex-TWA MD-80 or 757 with AA. Does anyone know if AA has been changing out the interiors on these birds?
 
commavia
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Sun May 22, 2005 10:36 pm

Yes -- AA is slowly but surely modifying the interiors of the TWA MD-80s to meet AA standard, including installing solid divider partitions between F and Y and changing the seat covers. Most MD-80 modification work is being performed as the planes come in for overhaul servicing in TUL or MCI. Most MD-80s will probably be modified within the next two years, as many have already been switched over to AA interiors.

The 757s, on the other hand, are not being as heavily modified as AA will be returning nearly all of these planes in the next 2-3 years as their leases expire. AA doesn't want non-standard 757s with Pratt engines complicating their all RR-powered 757 operations.

[Edited 2005-05-22 15:37:05]

[Edited 2005-05-22 15:37:38]
 
B757capt
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Sun May 22, 2005 10:47 pm

Good are any of the old TWA birds ETOPS rated?
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commavia
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Sun May 22, 2005 10:56 pm

Quoting B757capt (Reply 2):
Good are any of the old TWA birds ETOPS rated?

I am not certain, but I don't believe any of the remaining TWA planes with AA have ETOPs certifications. TWA obviously had ETOPS-certified 757s that flew to LIS, MAD, BCN, etc. and also on longer Caribbean flights to ANU, CUN, etc. but I think AA has already returned them to lessors. I could be wrong, though.
 
AA717driver
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Sun May 22, 2005 11:53 pm

The ETOPS has probably been allowed to lapse. With the lower power engines, AA wouldn't put them on the longer flights and the rafts were pulled out shortly after 9/11.

Also, the 757's that were used on the LIS/BCN routes had higher allowable gross weights but it was just a paperwork thing--write Boeing a check and viola! you have a high gross weight 757! That didn't last.TC
FL450, M.85
 
ckfred
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 1:00 pm

I seem to remember that AA is also installing the extended bins on the ex-TW MD-80s this year. If a plane is going into TUL or MCI for something less than a C-check, the bins will be replaced, although the rest of the cabin upgrades will be left for a full overhaul.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 1:19 pm

Slightly off topic here, but is AA keeping & refurbishing all 103 MD-80s they inherited from TWA, or just the ones in revenue service at this time? Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 2:42 pm

The good news is AA stepped up the installation schedule for installing power ports and expanded overhead bins to TWA MD-80s. As of May 1, 94% of all AA MD-80s (including TWA) have expanded bins and power ports. AA has 336 MD-80s in service, including TWA, and to be more specific, 316 have the bigger bins and power ports.

In addition, 263 MD-80s have been reconfigured, adding two more seats to f-class (16 in all) and five more seats to main cabin (120) in all. I know AA has taken a lot of flack for removing MRTC, however, AA removed a closet behind first class and a closet in the very back of the plane. Since these two closests were removed, the legroom in coach is still generous... it didn't go back to where it used to be. Remember, AA took out 10 seats from coach before and only added back five, after removing two closets.
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tonytifao
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 9:23 pm

What planes will AA use when they replace their 757 fleet once the lease ends?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 9:32 pm

The TWA 757's aren't being replaced by anything. AA inherited about 30 P&W powered 757-200's from the TWA merger. The large fleet of RR 757's that AA has always had will take over all necessary routes with others changing gauge as necessary.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 9:39 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
AA doesn't want non-standard 757s with Pratt engines complicating their all RR-powered 757 operations.

That makes sense, I wonder who the likely candidates are that will be picking up the birds when AA is finishes with them.
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kyair
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 10:38 pm

I flew from DFW on Fri and noticed a couple AA MD-80's and one 757 that still have TW tail numbers. One MD-80 I saw for sure while on the taxiway waiting to take off was N-707TW. Haven't had a chance yet to see if there's a pic of it in the photo's section. When will all the tail numbers change? I thought this was already done.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
 
ckfred
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 11:09 pm

KYAir:

I don't think AA is going to change any tail numbers on ex-TWA MD-80s. I remember seeing DL 737s and 727s in ATL with tail numbers that ended with the letters WA, making them former Western aircraft. This was several years after the merger, and the aircraft were all in DL colors.
 
YukonTrader
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Mon May 23, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting KYAir (Reply 11):
When will all the tail numbers change? I thought this was already done.

Do they actually plan to do so, and if so, for what reason? Except for generating paper-work and the cost involved, there's not much return from such a scheme...

I dare to ask
a) after a quick glance at the AA fleet in jp 2004/05 - it doesn't list a single ex TW aircraft that would already have been re-registered into a registration (tail number) with AA, AM, AN... suffix, and
b) as I have never heard of it being planned?

Cheers, Lukas
 
commavia
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 12:46 am

Sorry for the double post.

[Edited 2005-05-23 17:47:11]
 
commavia
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting KYAir (Reply 11):
When will all the tail numbers change?

I doubt AA will change them any time soon, if ever. There is no need to pay the fees, etc. to reregister an airplane with a new tail number. It costs too much, for virtually no benefit except that the N---TW can become N---AA or -AN or -AM. It would be a waste of money and AA has been extremely fiscally responsible lately with very little money wasting.
 
LY4XELD
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Thread starter):
It's been a while since I've flown on an ex-TWA MD-80 or 757 with AA. Does anyone know if AA has been changing out the interiors on these birds?

Flew one just last night with TWA style paneling on the interior (i.e. a pattern), and TWA emblazoned on the bev. carts. They're still around, just few and far between.
That's why we're here.
 
sleekjet
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 12:54 am

I should know this but how does one tell the difference between the 757 P & W and the 757 RR?
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
N501US
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 1:05 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Leach
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Victor Lopez



NWA = Pratt

AA = Rolls

Hope this helps
Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
 
sleekjet
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 1:12 am

Ah, so the RR's are the smaller of the two, but more powerful?
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
N501US
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 1:17 am

From the "A/C Data" tab here at A.net:

Two 166.4kN (37,400lb) RollsRoyce RB211-535C turbofans, or
178.8kN (40,200lb) RB211-535E4s, or
193.5kN (43,500lb) RB211-535E4-Bs, or
162.8kN (36,600lb) Pratt & Whitney PW2037s, or
two 178.4kN (40,100lb) PW2040s, or
189.5kN (42,600lb) PW2043s
Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
 
Dalmd88
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 4:45 am

Many also consider the RR to be more reliable. The PW have had pylon crack issues from the very start and a few years ago The entire fleet was having Stator Crack problems. I remember at DL we had engine less 757s everywhere while they were tearing down the bad ones. PW couldn't produce the parts fast enough. There was also a huge backlog of customer engines with the same problems.
 
LY4XELD
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting N501US (Reply 18):

NWA = Pratt

AA = Rolls

Hope this helps

AA flies both P&W (ex-TWA) and RR engines. You can tell the ex-TWA's in AA's fleet also by the lack of overwing exits.
That's why we're here.
 
commavia
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 21):
Many also consider the RR to be more reliable.

Can't comment specifically, but I know that AA is extremely pleased with the RB211 and 757 performance in general and those hard-working, reliable 757s have found a place as a workhorse in the AA fleet. They will be around for quite some time. AA is steadily returning the Pratt-powered 757s to lessors and will continue to out to 2007. The small sub-fleet of Pratt-powered planes does not fit with AA's over 100-strong RR-powered fleet. The Pratt fleet also costs more to maintain because AA has to send the engine overhauls out to DL for maintenance whereas the RB211s are maintained in-house at AFW.
 
B4REAL
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 5:59 am

For the TWA MD-80's that are slowly getting the cabin conversion as described above, will any of them get the power adapters that the AA a/c have?
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Tue May 24, 2005 10:45 am

Here's a better comparison:

Former TWA PW-powered 757-200:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John K. Jonaitis Jr.



AA RR-powered 757-200:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Airwim



The differences, as mentioned, are in the engine shape and door configuration.
 
September11
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Wed May 25, 2005 3:09 am

AA 757 RR-powered
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Del Laughery



AA 757 PW-powered
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Phil Derner Jr.



You should see the difference ...
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N1120A
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Wed May 25, 2005 5:23 am

Quote:
From the "A/C Data" tab here at A.net:

Welcome to the site and here is your first lesson about A.net. Don't use the A.net Data section

RB211s use less fuel on the 757 than the PW2000 as well as being more reliable. This is particularly true on the 757-300, which is why NW negotiated a deal with PW where PW pays for the overage in fuel use as compares to the RB211.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jetstar
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Wed May 25, 2005 6:50 am

"I doubt AA will change them any time soon, if ever. There is no need to pay the fees, etc. to reregister an airplane with a new tail number. It costs too much, for virtually no benefit except that the N---TW can become N---AA or -AN or -AM. It would be a waste of money and AA has been extremely fiscally responsible lately with very little money wasting."

It costs around ten dollars to reregister an airplane with the FAA for a number change.

The exterior N numbers on an AA aircraft, like everything else on the exterior are decals, not painted on. The old number can be peeled off very easily and replaced in a short time, this could be done during the night on the ramp when the airplane overnights.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: AA's Ex-TWA MD-80's & 757's

Wed May 25, 2005 9:08 am

Yes, there are many hidden costs besides the FAA fee.
-decals
-labor to change decals
-changing cockpit placards
-updating logbooks
-updating maintenance records
-labor to perform the above tasks & data entry

All with zero value-added to the customer.

That is why AA and other airlines use fleet numbers for a more simple method to track each aircraft internally.