klmflyer
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:15 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 12:22 am

I want to share with you my experience on AA 672 from Miami to La Guardia.

I never fly on AA, and in economy class, as I have platinum elite status with SkyTeam but I had a balance of few miles on an old AAdvantage account and zeroed the few miles by booking 2 award tickets from NYC to Miami and back.
Yesterday evening we boarded flight AA 672 (a B757) and took our seats in the back at 33B and 33E.

Rows 34ABC were occupied by a father with two little kids who cried and shouted non stop, for the full one hour and a half soon after taking off.
My friend who was seated in 33B at a certain stage asked this father (34B) to try to calm down his kids and in reply was kicked in the back of the seat.
He started rising his voice, laughing at the situation, and I told him that he could uses some good manners or, in alternative, travel by surface the next time rather than disturbing the entire section of the plane.
There's been an exchange of thoughts and when my friend called the hostess to try settle the issue, the AA hostess, a tall blond woman who probably needs to attend some sort of good manners school, told my friend to leave his seat, in a very rude way, and to accommodate in an empty seat (29B).
In the meantime, as my friend suffers from kidney stones, the kick in the back of his seat contributed to a strong colic and spent the remaining hour on the flight being helped by the passenger seated next to him.

Once at La Guardia, at almost midnight, the captain informed all passengers to stay on board since it looked there was a problem with the jetway.
It was not the jetway but the hostess called the police and all of a sudden me and my friend have been approached by 6 policemen who intimidated us saying that we were supposed to go to the police station to clear the issue.
My friend, in full colic, asked for a glass of water which have been denied by the hostess (who said no by wiping her hand) and by one of the policeman who said "I decide whether you get the water or not".

In the end, once they cleared out that we were polite, European businessmen, and the pax in 34B declared that the all story was just an exchange of words (because it was his words vs. ours!!!) me and my friend left the plane fully escorted by the police up to the airport exit, taxi stand (why being escorted? I do not know!).
While we were leaving the plane, the hostess and the captain were watching over us like we were the worst passengers they had on board.
Now, my question is: is there a way to protect a passenger from a hostess who created a false case? is it so automatic on AA to call police to settle things? is it smartest way to solve problems?
We have never experienced anything similar and was the first time to be approached by police but the experience was unique.
What I do not accept is the way the hostess and the captain handled this, and the way they watched at us while we were desembarking, nodding the head like you do with your little kids when they do something inappropriate?
If you call the police for a 2-minute verbal dispute between two passengers, what do you do in more serious cases?
I found myself offended by this procedure and by the attitude of both hostess and captain.
For sure I won't be flying with AA any more (second and last experience) and will continue to fly first class on CO and NW, on domestic flights, where the cabin staff is highly professional and knows the good manners.
I believe it would have been much easier, and more diplomatic and full of good sense.

Good sense, good manners can always settle any kind of issues without creating embarassing situations - I do not call police to settle issues with a client, if any, rather I try to accommodate, in case - but probably the AA hostess has been trained to call police and leave to others the power to settle things.
At the very end my friend got a kick in the back in every sense.
The other passenger (34B) desembarked like a hero and the two of us left the plane like trouble makers.

Sometime I wonder if people can think or simply follow rules without thinking!
 
VSIVARIES
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:25 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 12:37 am

If you don't want screaming kids and impolite cabin crew then fly business or first.

Whichever way around never fly American scareways in any event.

I've had some rotten AA experiences myself, but the police thing is.. erm.. unusual.

What you have said is your side of the story - and there are always two sides.

B/R
For every action there is always an unequal but mostly similar reaction.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 12:39 am

I'm sorry you went through this.......immature actions by the FA/Cpt. THey could have handled this situation very easily in a matter of a minute or so. We look forward to serving you again on CO!!
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 1:09 am

Sorry to hear you had to go through that....I'd write a letter but honestly don't know if it would get you what you need/want.

Another reason why I don't fly American.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 1:16 am

I think it's a very nice story, but there are a few things that really don't sound kosher.

Quoting KLMflyer (Thread starter):
There's been an exchange of thoughts

What do you really mean by this?


Did you and your buddy really behave like

Quoting KLMflyer (Thread starter):
polite, European businessmen
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 1:52 am

I would be very interested in hearing the other side of the story, the crew accounts, etc.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
schipholjfk
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:11 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 1:52 am

Quoting VSIVARIES (Reply 1):
If you don't want screaming kids and impolite cabin crew then fly business or first.

What are you... smoking crack? Why can't a paying customer in any class expect decent service especially from impolite crew. While I understand children's behavior is not under the control of flight crew, but PROFESSIONAL crew no matter what class should act with utmost respect. Try flying any Asian airliner and you will see what professionalism is all about. Economy class passengers are not animals... they are PAYING customers! That's right... paying customer. That means a respectable level of service is to be expected. Not ROYAL, FIRST-CLASS service, but respectable service. Airlines is a transportation as well as a service business. That means giving customers respect. It is too often the case in this world today that people enter service industry and then cop an attitude. If you don't like working with people... get out! There are always procedures to deal with bad customers. No one is saying bad customers/passengers should not be dealth with properly. But there is a growing sentiment in airlines business especially among U.S. flight crews that they are doing PAYING PASSENGERS a favor by flying. Economy passengers are NOT flying for free. Most economy passengers have accepted the cattle class mentality and understand the poor economics of airline business (although Eurpean, Asian majors and US LCCs continue to prove that money can be made in this business while our inept legacy carriers prove otherwise), but they still deserve basic respect.

By the way, I travel in business class with my kids! So the notion that there are no kids in Business class is a fallacy.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
CrossChecked
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:06 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 2:08 am

Absolutely, Schipholjfk. You make a fantastic point.

The problem is that parents think their kids are the most precious things on earth and are, as a result, reluctant to lavish disipline of any sort on them.

If I had kids and they were acting like this, I would immediately take them to the lavs until they calmed down. No sign of calming down? A swift slap to the back of the legs should do it.

I'm very much of the opinion that if you can't control your kids onboard an aircraft - a closed, confined, cramped and stressful environment for everyone - you shouldn't travel with them until they are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

Just yesterday I took a domestic flight home here in the UK. I was exhausted after having just completed an overnight shift and having not slept for close to 24 hours. I began nodding off when my chair began recieving kicks from a baby behind. The mother did nothing to stop this, despite a few icey glances from me.

The baby then proceeded to make rediculous noises including "raspberries" and constant shrill screams for no reason. Granted, kids do this but parents should be able to or WILLING TO control when and where the kids behave like this.

If the baby wasnts to scream and kick things, let it do it at home and keep the parents awake. I take a flight to relax and chill out, not be troubled by someone elses screaming brat.

KLMflyer, sorry to hear about your situation. There's really nothing you can do about it as reports will have been submitted by the crew and it's quite likely they will have been exaggerated, making you appear to be the baddy.

Lets hope this is a one-off experience for you.
Cabin crew, doors to manual and cross check.
 
DEN-HNL
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2000 8:38 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 7):



Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 7):
The baby then proceeded to make rediculous noises including "raspberries" and constant shrill screams for no reason. Granted, kids do this but parents should be able to or WILLING TO control when and where the kids behave like this.

You obviously have little or no experience with babies. CONTROL A BABY when being content making their cute raspberries? Or practicing their verbalization skills with, what you think are ridiculous noises? If my baby is expressing herself jabbering away on a flight behind you, you are the last person I will try to please by quieting her!
John Hancock
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 4:31 am

>>>My friend who was seated in 33B at a certain stage asked this father (34B) to try to calm down his kids and in reply was kicked in the back of the seat. He started rising his voice, laughing at the situation, and I told him that he could uses some good manners or, in alternative, travel by surface the next time rather than disturbing the entire section of the plane. There's been an exchange of thoughts and when my friend called the hostess to try settle the issue,

Personally, I think you erred in how you and your friend handled it. By not making notification of the F/A your -first- step, your lecturing the guilty party (on behalf of your friend) served to unnecessarily escalate the situation to the point that you (both) might have appeared (to the F/A) as the instigator picking on the poor guy with two kids, hence the response.

There are no guarantees, but asking the F/A at the outset if she had anything (gum, toys, drawing paper, etc.) that might placate the kids behind you might have had a different result by showing you as the original "victim". By getting the F/A involved later as you did, to her it probably looked like a "he said" versus "they said" and she ended up picking the wrong perpetrator.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
klmflyer
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:15 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 8:01 am

to OPNLguy

thank you very much for your feedback.
I'm pretty sure that by handling the situation in the way you suggested, we would have avoided such an unpleasant, and frightening as well, experience.
This "he said" vs "they said" complicated the whole story and at the end we ended up in being treated in the wrong way and as the bad guys.
Should I find myself again in a similar situation I will strongly follow your suggestion.
thank you very much again.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 9:29 am

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 7):
The problem is that parents think their kids are the most precious things on earth and are, as a result, reluctant to lavish disipline of any sort on them.

If I had kids and they were acting like this, I would immediately take them to the lavs until they calmed down. No sign of calming down? A swift slap to the back of the legs should do it.

No, sir. The problem is that in this advanced, modern world that we live in, if you were to issue a "swift slap to the back of the legs", it may result in your investigation as an abusive parent.

Do you want to risk a court appearance, arrest, and the potential of having your children taken out of your custody solely for the minor inconvenience of someone you've never met before?

This whole planet needs an attitude change, in more ways than one, but this is a conversation better left off of a general aviation forum.
We can agree to disagree.
 
hamad
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 6:29 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 10:10 am

the same reason i don't fly AA anymore either. I used to like them, but now, and compared to all other US domestic carriers, they need a major attitude adjustment. one time i asked the FA a question about the over wing exit procedure because i was seated there, she smerked as she looked at me and she said "look at the emergency card"
PHX - i miss spotting
 
flymia
Posts: 6806
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 10:31 am

Well the Captain had no idea what was going on no reason to blame him. He cold only think that the FA was telling him the truth.
I fly AA almost all the time whenever I fly and I never had a problem with them. Dont really have to never fly AA again you will have bad experiences with an airline sometime. If I had a problem at my local grocery store chain or Shell Gas Station does that mean never go to either again?
I

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 9):
Personally, I think you erred in how you and your friend handled it. By not making notification of the F/A your -first- step, your lecturing the guilty party (on behalf of your friend) served to unnecessarily escalate the situation to the point that you (both) might have appeared (to the F/A) as the instigator picking on the poor guy with two kids, hence the response.

I agree with that, the first step should have been to get the FA.
I hope you reported your situation to AA management because the way the FA treated you is not acceptable.
Atleast now I know if I ever had a situation where someone I know or myself is moved or anything similar to yours I will make sure that the crew does not over react with the situation like how they did with yours.
Also maybe the Captain or FO should have actually listened to what happened before they called for the police.
I agree some FAs are very rude.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
jumppilot
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 4:21 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 10:34 am

Sounds like a Southwest flight!!! Maybe American should be the subject of that "Airline" show. I'd just drive if that happened to me.
pull back to go up, pull way back to go down!
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 10:34 am

"No, sir. The problem is that in this advanced, modern world that we live in, if you were to issue a "swift slap to the back of the legs", it may result in your investigation as an abusive parent."

Depends on the agency and the competancy of their staff. Any decent investigator can tell the difference between proper discipline and abuse. I'm certain that some of our judges here would have no problem tossing a DCS case if one were to come before them without any substantial evidence. Most judges recognize that the parents are a major part of the problem but their abilities to intervene are limited whereas DCS has most of the enforcement power in these cases.

As for American, the problem with attitude goes way back. I have and never will fly them because of their management, namely one Robert Crandell. Incompetancy flows from the top down.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 11:17 am

This is not a new thing for AA. They have a new policy that seams to be "use 9/11 as an excuse to call the cops" on anyone who "argues" with them, even if they didn't do anything wrong.

Same thing happened to the wife of a popular radio show host here in LA. She was ordered to stop feeding her baby for some reason despite the baby being young and needing care, and she refused to and they got on her case to the point that she started crying, and when they landed in JFK, sure enough the police were there to intimidate her. Of course, he let the whole LA market know of his experience, and being the number 1 radio show in the largest market in the US, this probably didn't help the AA tarnished image much.

I stopped flying AA a few years ago due to total lack of concern for customers. They used to ge good, and I had accumulated nearly 1million real miles on them in my life, but I stopped flying because of poor treatment, run down equipment, and general disrespect ever since Crandall retired. I've used up all my miles but 40k, and was planning on using those up soon until I learned they upped the domestic US first award to 45k. grrr.

Stick with SkyTeam. They may not offer "true" first class on most of their carriers, but they don't arrest you, either.  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 11:37 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 15):
Depends on the agency and the competancy of their staff.

At what point did you miss the "may" in my comment before you went off on your diatribe. You know full well where my comment was coming from. Are you going to kick me in the back of my seat now? Geez.
We can agree to disagree.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 12:22 pm

Even if you had gone to the F/A in an initial complaint, it may not have helped anyway. While the f/a's have an obligation to handle reasonable complaints from pax of annoying children (and adults), they far too often don't want to confront and admonish adults pax for such issues as they fear they could be subject to complaints and getting them a black mark on their records. This is compounded by a busy schedule of customer service on such a relatively short flight and from thier view figure the problem will be dealt with by the parent/ gurardian or the flight will be over with. I recall a flight I was on back in December 2003 on AA, EWR-SJU (A300), we had a 1 1/2 hour wx (snow) delay, and sitting near me were a mother and her 2 often screaming toddlers. They were almost never strapped down in their seats the whole time of the flight. The f/a's didn't do much to deal with the situation and I dealt with it by wearing my headphones for the movie or my cd player. Still, it was annoying and perhaps I should have said something to the f/a's, but figured I wouldn't work anyway, as the kids may have had ear pressure problems, were sick, etc.
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting Den-hnl (Reply 8):
You obviously have little or no experience with babies. CONTROL A BABY when being content making their cute raspberries?

This is sums up the problem. Parents who think their babies noises and disruptive behaviour are cute while disregarding that discomfort it's causing to an entire cabin of other people.

I'm so sick of self-centered parents.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
yegmaster
Posts: 932
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 6:58 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 1:34 pm

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 7):
The problem is that parents think their kids are the most precious things on earth and are, as a result, reluctant to lavish disipline of any sort on them.

I beg your pardon????

That's right, we as parents don't care how our kids behave because they are the cutest things ever to walk this planet and can do whatever they want.

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 7):
If I had kids and they were acting like this, I would immediately take them to the lavs until they calmed down. No sign of calming down? A swift slap to the back of the legs should do it.

I am glad to here you as non parent can do a much better job then us here as parents. Why don't I ship you mine for a couple of weeks then we will see if you still comment in the same way.

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 7):
someone elses screaming brat.

Why don't you come and say that straight to my face.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting Yegmaster (Reply 20):
I beg your pardon????

That's right, we as parents don't care how our kids behave because they are the cutest things ever to walk this planet and can do whatever they want.

that has to be the RUDEST and SELF-CENTERED comment I've read on this board in quite some time.....if you can't handle your kids on a flight, then DO NOT FLY with them...some people who fly don't want kids and/or don't have kids  Angry ......i hope you don't sit behind me...... crazy 

that being said, babies crying don't bother me because I have my noise reduction headphones on (I can't believe I didnt' purchase those things earlier)..and if a kid is kicking my seat, I give them such a stare, they stop..then I smile at the parents.....  biggrin ...fortunately, I've only experienced one flight with a "seat kicker" (incedentally it was on AA also)..a few with crying babies, but thats very dealable...

if that doesn't work, then I'll make a complaint to the FA's and rather than being rude or nasty, I ask them for their recommendation...


if kids are old and big enough to kick a seat, then they are old enough to be disciplined...!!!
"Up the Irons!"
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 2:09 pm

on behalf of judge gene,glenn,jake and pete...WELCOME TO THE FREINDLY SKIES
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 2:14 pm

Actually, I didn't miss the "may" in your statement. However, none of the jurisdictions in which I have lived would ever have considered a mild spanking to be physical child abuse. I can't speak for The Buckeye State which I note that you are from but Tennessee and Arizona have enough sensible civil servants to weed out the real cases from the nonsense cases. Just because one child protective services agency or court may be heavyhanded in their "application" of the law does not mean that all of them are.

Having worked in transportation I will also add that while passengers with children can only do so much to control their behavior, the other passengers should not be required to suffer disruptive behavior if there is the possibility of the carrier resolving the matter on their behalf. It's been a while since I'vre read any of the Contracts of Carriage, but they generally list under what conditions the carrier is obligated to transport the ticketholder and what conditions void that contract. Disruptive behavior is one of those conditions but whether or not it could apply to minor children I am not sure. Onboard our trains I never recieved a complaint about an ill behaved child. If we had, we would have attempted to resolve the situation by reseating one of the parties. However, if it were a case of a parent refusing to control their child's behavior to a reasonable degree, we would put them off at the nearest safe point and provide a partial refund of their fare if applicable.

As for the reaction of the FA and the Captain, I can certainly see their reasoning for calling in the airport police. Lawsuits are quite common these days and most companies will not provide legal aid to their employees even if they are named in a lawsuit for following corporate policy. From their point of view, why should they risk getting tangled up in a legal quagmire when all they need to do is have the police handle the situation? From the airline's position it's cheaper and the loss of a few passenger's business outweighs the cost of litigating a civil suit. All this is why I don't miss flying commercial.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
777wt
Posts: 828
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:45 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 3:09 pm

Quoting VSIVARIES (Reply 1):
If you don't want screaming kids and impolite cabin crew then fly business or first.

Wrong, I flew first and business class with AA and they have kids in first class on my last 2 flights with AA (JFK to AUA roundtrip)
2 babies still in their carriers plus a young boy and girl.
I thought kids were banned from first class until a certain age (16?)

70% of the time I'm flying no matter what airline, there's an kid always kicking the back of the seat I'm sitting in. What I do is turn around, look at the kid then whoever the kid's parents are and nod my head.

They don't do anything to make them stop or discipline them.
This is what the problem is, discipline and deterrance to kids.

60% of the time it'd be a screaming baby. Here's what I do at this point, turn my hearing aids off!

About a few years ago, I did see a couple complain to the F/A about the screaming kids (this was during final boarding inside the aircraft) and they relocated them to first class since all economy class was filled except their previous seats.
 
CrossChecked
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:06 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 3:56 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 11):
minor inconvenience

Minor???? I've seen babies cry for well over half of a ten+ hour flight from London to Los Angeles. That, to me, is not a minor inconvenience.

It makes the parents cranky, and the entire load of other passengers (atleast those within close proximity of the brat) cranky which adds up to a pretty bloody horrible day for everyone.

Cranky passengers = rude to flight attendants + rude to customs + rude to immigration + rude to taxi driver + rude to family at home.

One little screaming, noisy baby keeping people awake can really have a bad knock-on effect to other people who weren't even on the plane. Trust me, I've seen it and have been guilty of it.

If you can't keep your kid quiet on the flight, don't fly with 'em.
Cabin crew, doors to manual and cross check.
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 4:14 pm

Quoting VSIVARIES (Reply 1):
If you don't want screaming kids and impolite cabin crew then fly business or first.

This is nothing but pure elitist drivel that also happens to be entirely incorrect as well.

Quoting Den-hnl (Reply 8):
You obviously have little or no experience with babies.

Does reading your posts count?  Big grin
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
flybeq400
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:46 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 4:50 pm

There is a very simply solution. Avoid flying AA or any legacy American carrier. In fact, if at all possible avoid domestic flights in the US.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 5:00 pm

because we all know that people with unruly children would never fly Southwest, right?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
lear35pilot
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2000 6:56 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 8:59 pm

Unless you have had children, and unless you have traveled with them as newborns/infants, you cannot possibly know what it is like to travel with them. I have been on flights where my children have either behaved like angels, or the devil himself. There is no way to predict it, and there is very little a parent can do to prevent a screaming baby from crying. Food, books, videos, etc can help, but if the child is suffering from inner ear problems due to cabin pressurization, nothing short of the flight landing will help. In addition, before engaging a parent with screaming kids, you should have engaged the flight attendent first. She could have moved you, and you would not have had to engage the father at all.

I do not condone what the father did in this case, nor do I condone what the flight attendent did. However, a better way to address the issue would have been to ignore the father/kids completely, and approach the cabin crew for assistance.

Finally, after one hellish flight from JFK to DCA where my infant children screamed the entire 45 minute flight, I purchase 18 sets of plastic ear plugs before every flight, and distribute them to the passengers who sit immediately around my seats. Its amazing how gracious people are when you tell them to prepare for the worst, and give them something to help ease the pain of a screaming child.
 
tonytifao
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 9:13 pm

Quoting VSIVARIES (Reply 1):
If you don't want screaming kids and impolite cabin crew then fly business or first.

I've had loud kids on first and on business class. Damn parents that can't control their kids.
 
tonytifao
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 9:15 pm

I've had horrible treatment on United Flights ORD-GRU, IAD-GRU. Also had horrible service on F-Class on United MCO-SFO. I've had great service with AA so far.
 
warszawa
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:37 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
that has to be the RUDEST and SELF-CENTERED comment I've read on this board in quite some time.....if you can't handle your kids on a flight, then DO NOT FLY with them...some people who fly don't want kids and/or don't have kids ......i hope you don't sit behind me......

Oh, I fully agree with you. I was recently on a flight TPA-CVG on Delta (737-800) where I dealt with numerous screaming babies, and two kids behind me kicking my seat after takeoff.

I was filming my takeoff through the window (Its on flightlevel350.com), so I didnt say anything at first. After I finished, (There was a boy next to the window kicking my seat, a smaller girl in the middle seat, then both kids's mother in the aisle seat), I turned around, told the kid 'Can you please STOP kicking my seat!?", he was about 10 years old, well old enough to figure out that it was inappropriate. I gave it with a rude tone of voice, because, for the most part, I could care less. Treat me with disrespect, you'll get treated the same way. As soon as I turned around I heard the mother tell him to 'Stop that!' and smacked him on the arm. Finally I thought, a parent who practices some sort of punishment. Besides, if he didnt stop, i'd just recline my seat all the way so he wouldent be able to play his little 'handheld' gameboy advance he had (with the sound to the max, too), and/or would hafe difficulty eating on the flight.

For instance, about 6 rows ahead of me, some father/mother had a son, probably about 1 year old. In cruise, the father kept lifting him up towards the overhead bins (Like to simulate that the kid was 'flying), each time the baby went up towards the bins, he let out a loud scream of excitement. People, being on a 737-800 at 8:30 in the morning, with 152 passengers onboard, give some respect, please. Playing with your children, lifting them into the air so they scream YIPEE! in excitement in front of 152 people, who, for the most part, at 8am are probably exhausted, want to relax, and enjoy the flight...is EXTREMELY rude, yet alone very unsafe for the child.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting 777WT (Reply 24):
Quoting VSIVARIES (Reply 1):
If you don't want screaming kids and impolite cabin crew then fly business or first.

Wrong, I flew first and business class with AA and they have kids in first class on my last 2 flights with AA (JFK to AUA roundtrip)
2 babies still in their carriers plus a young boy and girl.

There was actually an article in the Wall Street Journal on Friday, May 20th (Weekend Journal, Page W1) "Frequent Criers" detailing not only the increasing number of famlies, including young children, flying First Class but the steps that various airlines are taking to encourage the practice.

Quote:
Now flying first class: 'sky nannies,' kids in face paint and more loud babies. Katherine Rosman on airlines' new efforts to cater to families--and the new turbulence up front. [...] Meet another face of first class: It's frcekled and smudged with chocolate. To the bedevlement of business travelers, more parents are moving the family to the front of the plane--and airlines are cautiously responsing with kid-friendly amenities. [...]
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Amy
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:48 am

Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Mon May 23, 2005 11:52 pm

Very sad reading your story, KLMflyer.

I would dispute taking young children on a flight. It's loud, there are unfamiliar feelings like ear popping, geforce, turbulence. I wouldn't blame the child for crying (how could you) but I would blame the parents who are so unjustifiably selfish to make the flying experience a misery for those around them and not having the stones to discipline their children in public.

As for the F/A and the police, that was entirely unnecessary and I feel very sad for you to be put through this persecution for no good reason.

Quoting KLMflyer (Thread starter):
For sure I won't be flying with AA any more

I'm not surprised and I don't blame you in the slightest. If they're going to act that way to paying customers, they don't deserve your business.
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
NWADC9
Posts: 3938
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:33 am

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIa To LGA

Tue May 24, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting CrossChecked (Reply 7):
If I had kids and they were acting like this, I would immediately take them to the lavs until they calmed down. No sign of calming down? A swift slap to the back of the legs should do it.

Good luck with that. Lavatories are so small, it's not even funny.

Quoting 777WT (Reply 24):
I thought kids were banned from first class until a certain age (16?)

In the mid-90's, I remember there being a ban of children under 8 in F for non-revs. Heck, there was even a dress code! My first F class flight was DTW-GMP when I was 7, and the reason why we did that was because coach and WBC was full. So, using my Korean age (according to Korean tradition, when you're born, you're one year old, so I would have been 8 if I was 7.), I was able to board. Now, I knew, and know how to behave on a plane. Sometimes, I even get an upgrade to F for free!

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 32):
some father/mother had a son, probably about 1 year old. In cruise, the father kept lifting him up towards the overhead bins (Like to simulate that the kid was 'flying), each time the baby went up towards the bins, he let out a loud scream of excitement.

Let's see baby fly in code 6 turbulence

[Edited 2005-05-23 17:49:13]
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Tue May 24, 2005 5:47 am

Even if you can't control your children, at least TRY! Parents who do nothing come across as self centered. Bottom line is, if your children can't control themselves, don't fly with them and rent a car
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Tue May 24, 2005 6:06 am

"Another reason why I don't fly American."[reply 3]

Me too.

Solution: Try to avoid that crappy airline.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Tue May 24, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 32):
Oh, I fully agree with you. I was recently on a flight TPA-CVG on Delta (737-800) where I dealt with numerous screaming babies, and two kids behind me kicking my seat after takeoff.

I couldn't agree with you more..I have no problems with babies crying..since they really dont know whats happening...I can even understand a 3-4 year old child crying due to some kind of ear problem/pain/fear/ect..

but a child who is 6 and up an not being disciplined..thats NOT acceptable!

Quoting Amy (Reply 34):
I would dispute taking young children on a flight. It's loud, there are unfamiliar feelings like ear popping, geforce, turbulence. I wouldn't blame the child for crying (how could you) but I would blame the parents who are so unjustifiably selfish to make the flying experience a misery for those around them and not having the stones to discipline their children in public.

yes....its the parents responsibility.......i couldn't agree with you more!

Quoting B744F (Reply 36):
Even if you can't control your children, at least TRY! Parents who do nothing come across as self centered.

thats just TOO MUCH to ask...innit?  sarcastic 
"Up the Irons!"
 
warszawa
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:37 am

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Tue May 24, 2005 11:00 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):
couldn't agree with you more..I have no problems with babies crying..since they really dont know whats happening...I can even understand a 3-4 year old child crying due to some kind of ear problem/pain/fear/ect..

Same here, as much aggravation can be caused by screaming children, I do understand theres not much (if anything) you can do if the child is young. BUT, what really annoys me is when the father or mother provoke the matter by lifting their child in the air, and each time the child is lifted up he/she lets out a loud scream of excitement. To me, thats extremely rude.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
DEN-HNL
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2000 8:38 am

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Tue May 24, 2005 11:37 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 19):
Parents who think their babies noises and disruptive behaviour are cute while disregarding that discomfort it's causing to an entire cabin of other people.

I'm so sick of self-centered parents.

Who said anything about disruptive behavior being cute? Reread my post, and understand it this time. Some baby noises can be irritating, but it's inevitable sometimes and has to be dealt with. You actually think any parent wants a screaming baby?

As far as self-centered (adj : limited to or caring only about yourself and your own needs) parents go, I agree, they are annoying. I, however, value my baby's happiness first and will not restrict her expressing herself. I hope that many of you never reproduce if you believe in silencing a freaking BABY! I totally agree with disciplining a toddler or older. The key word that sparked my initial post was "baby".

Quoting SATX (Reply 26):
Does reading your posts count?

Living with yourself for the last what, nine years, does.
John Hancock
 
chqdispatch
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Tue May 24, 2005 8:06 pm

I love the comments by people who don't have kids.
 
aa777223er
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:32 am

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Wed May 25, 2005 6:47 am

I just got off the telephone with the "tall blond AA hostess" referred to in the thread-starters post. His account of the incident is, to say the least, "sugar-coated". She will be sending me her full account of the incident, so that I may post it here on her behalf. I should have it posted by tomorrow morning. Stay tuned for the unedited truth.

Regards,

AA777223ER
time flies, seize the day
 
aviationwiz
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:20 pm

RE: Police On Board Of My AA Flight MIA To LGA

Wed May 25, 2005 7:14 am

"Unedited Truth."

Right...

It's more than likely that both stories will be edited so that the reader favors what the writer is saying, and the actual truth would be somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes.

At any rate, an adult especially kicking someone else's seat back is just plain rude, especially if the guy just asked for him to try and quiet his kid down.

Also, refusing the guy a simple glass of water is also just plain rude.
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: allegro, ArtV, AU795, Baidu [Spider], blockski, CWizard, DeltaB717, ehaase, eraugrad02, FairAir2016, flydia, fun2fly, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], kimshep, kngkyle, Qantas16, qf789, seat1a, timberwolf24, toneale, VirginFlyer, Wingtips56, xms3200 and 266 guests