leelaw
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Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 6:32 pm

Flight International 05-24-05:

"Emirates is in negotiations with Airbus and Boeing about a complex, multi-billion dollar deal for A350s and 777-200LRs, which would involve trade-in deals for the carriers existing A340-500s and older 777s.

...It could involve a complex contra-deal whereby Airbus, or an agent of the manufacturer, would take Boeing 777-200ERs in part exchange [for up to 50 A350s]. The rapidly expanding Dubai-based carrier is also known to be discussing a similar arrangement with Boeing under which its A340-500s would be exchanged for an order for the -500s ultra-long range rival, the 777-200LR."

[Edited 2005-05-23 11:40:39]
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 6:56 pm

An EK order for both A350s and B772LRs would give both a big boost. Finally EK will trade some aircraft instead of adding more to the fleet
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9v-svc
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 7:06 pm

One question is why is Emirates giving up the A345? The A345 is not meeting up to their expectations ?
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Adria
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 7:26 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
No its the first sign that the 6 years from now that the 772ER would be reaching the end of its life.... But more importantly it is another sign that Airbus is going to have to buy a market for the A350.

like Boeing did when they bought SQ A340s to sell their 777 Smile
 
Glom
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 7:35 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
But more importantly it is another sign that Airbus is going to have to buy a market for the A350.

But Boeing bought AC's A340s as part of their 777/787 deal.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 7:44 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
No its the first sign that the 6 years from now that the 772ER would be reaching the end of its life

The 777-200/200ER reaching the end of its life in 2011 after about 16/14 years??? Certainly not.
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 8:07 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 8):
The 777-200/200ER reaching the end of its life in 2011 after about 16/14 years??? Certainly not.

Reaching the end of its commercial life for a new planes, not the airframe life.

Quoting Glom (Reply 7):
But Boeing bought AC's A340s as part of their 777/787 deal.

Boeing will only buy AC's A340s if they can't get more than a certain price for it if they market it themselves. But that is the only deal where Boeing has offered to buy aircraft to win a 787 deal, and to my knowledge they haven't had to offer serious financial inducements well before the 787 is ready to get any orders for the 787. So far Airbus has managed to get an order of 20 A350s by offering a couple of financially distressed airlines with large Airbus fleets a loan to facilitate a merger, and now we are hearing that they will try and buy out some 777s to find a home for the A350.

Truth be told though, it makes sense for EK to do this. Getting rid of the few mixed 772A/ER frames they have (and perhaps A343s as well) as well as the bulk of the A330 fleet and replacing them with sizable number of A359s is a sensible thing for them to do if they are to succeed in their strategy of becoming a super hub.

[Edited 2005-05-23 13:35:02]
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leelaw
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 8:27 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
Truth be told though, it makes sense for EK to do this. Getting rid of the few mixed 772A/ER frames they have (and perhaps A343s as well) as well as the bulk of the A330 fleet and replacing them with sizable number of A350s is a sensible thing for them to do.

What about EK's nascent A346IGWs? Aren't these likely to be "rationalized" as well if the A345 is on the way out?
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atmx2000
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 8:59 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 10):
What about EK's nascent A346IGWs? Aren't these likely to be "rationalized" as well if the A345 is on the way out?

That's a good question, and I avoided it. Didn't EK get A346s and 773ERs because they were concerned about availability and order slots? With Boeing increasing 777 production they might be able to satisfy all of EKs needs. I guess it would all depend on the performance of the 773ER for EK? Maybe EK should consider asking Airbus to convert its A346 order into orders for the A350 and maybe the A389, and increase the 773ER order and order some 772LRs. Then we would see how desperate Airbus is for the A350 order...

[Edited 2005-05-23 14:05:32]
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 9:28 pm

"Is this the first sign the 777 is indeed going to be the prey of the A350? bye bye T7..."

Wow...and it only took Airbus 3 tries since none of A340-series could do the job. And to think that the A350 was not even necessary in the eyes of Airbus just a few months ago.
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 9:38 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
Truth be told though, it makes sense for EK to do this. Getting rid of the few mixed 772A/ER frames they have (and perhaps A343s as well)

EK surprised a lot of people by leasing the A343s well into the future (till 2009 or something like that) so they probably will be replaced by the A359s. (If they come.)

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 11):
Maybe EK should consider asking Airbus to convert its A346 order into orders for the A350 and maybe the A389

Maybe they already have...  Wink

Meanwhile, reports of the demise of the 777 seem to me greatly exaggerated.
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 9:48 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 13):
Meanwhile, reports of the demise of the 777 seem to me greatly exaggerated.

I don't think it is unreasonable to say that the older 777 models will eventually lose their appeal as new airliners. Whether the A359 is the aircraft that does it or whether Boeing comes up with something remains an open question.
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 10:38 pm

SAA would likely be a customer for used EK 345s... wonder if Qantas would try to pick some up from the used market.

The 777 has and will have more staying power than the 330/340 series. It is still the king of the big twins and, truth is Boeing usually exceeds its performance estimates... unlike some other manufacturers.
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 10:39 pm

look, emirates realizes the operational performance of the A345 does not match the Boeing 773ER and the 777LR. God, I love the airbus, but really, the A340 family is no match for the Boeing 777 family, period.
 
dalecary
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 10:43 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 3):
Is this the first sign the 777 is indeed going to be the prey of the A350? bye bye T7...

And what about the poor 332/333/343/345 and possibly 346. Prey of the 787/350/772LR/773ER.
The 772LR/773ER now have more combined orders than the 345/346, even though the quads had a 3 year lead. What does this tell you about the 345/346 Sabenapilot?
EK and SQ are on the verge of replacing 345s with 772LRs(EK is mentioned in this week's FI). Along with AC, doesn't leave much demand for a plane that is completely outclassed by the 772LR.
Airbus, after 3 years of 345/346 service with airlines can't achieve reliability to the level promised after 12 months in airline service(98.5% was the promised dispatch rate after 12 months). This has been clearly documented in FI.
However, the 773ER has indeed matched the reliability rates of the 777 family(99.2% dispatch rate) after 12 months of service.
What does that tell you Sabenapilot? Care to discuss?
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N79969
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 10:50 pm

I wonder what ads for the A350 will say?

Perhaps-- "4 engines-4-long-haul-- we were just kidding!"
 
N79969
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:02 pm

"BTW, it would be interesting to see if Boeing bites, because the market for this kind of ultra-long range planes is very very limited and them taking used A345s to re-market will prove a real pain in the ass for them... they might as well give those 772LR for free then..."

Another Sabenapilot gem. The market for B777LR is so limited that Air France, Air Canada, and Air India just signed up for some the other day are paying actual money.

I think the very, very limited demand applies chiefly to the A345.
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:06 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 18):
What does this tell you about the 345/346?

It tells you the A340 will be replaced by the A350 as from early next decade on and B is suddenly in urgent unexpected need of something brand new in this upper market segment too now, or the only version of their lucrative T7 they will still be able to sell (by one digit numbers) is the very exotic ultra-long haul 777-200LR.... Have a look at what Emirates is thinking of: replacing their main fleet of basic ageing 772s with new A350s, and the handfull of ultra long haul A345s with newer 772LR.

By 2011, the A340 design will near it's 20 years life span, so it will have done the job for Airbus. Wouldn't it be more interesting to talk about the premature end of the core of the 777 family and the unexpected urgent need for B to announce a 777 successor too now? Can we have your thoughts on how well B can cope with 2 all new designs at once? And about how they are going to secure funding?

[Edited 2005-05-23 16:29:42]
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:14 pm

Quoting N79969 (Reply 20):
I think the very, very limited demand applies chiefly to the A345

Now you got me confused. Are you suggesting B will have to go as far as to CREATE a market for their traded-in A345s (as payment for the 772LR) then? rotfl 
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:20 pm

so what if the a350 puts the 777 out to pasture? it won't happen until 2012 - 2015. that's a lot of time for boeing to remain in the dominant position in that market. if anything, i see the a350 killing the a340 between now and then. why buy the second best plane in a market if you're an airbus customer when a replacement is on the way that will have the same cockpit and training guidlines?

furthermore, if the a350 is really a 777-killer, then airbus still does not have a viable competitor for the 787. boeing will be the first to market with a composite fuselage and will have no rival in that size-range for the foreseeable future. this is going to be a huge cashcow for boeing, and put them in a position to create a 737 composite, as well as, eventually, a new 777 with a composite fuselage.

it seems to me that the a350 is hardly a problem for boeing. in fact, it seems to be playing right into boeing's hands.
 
Glom
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:23 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
the only version of their lucrative T7 they will still be able to sell (by one digit numbers) is the very exotic ultra-long haul 777-200LR....

The 773ER?
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:25 pm

I think that any reasonable person would conclude that it is actually Airbus that is scrambling to get its act together after get caught with its pants down. Only a few months ago, the A350 was a A330 with new engines--that is it.

How things have changed. All of a sudden this A350 is going to cannibalize or completely end sales of the much bally-hooed A332/333/340 "family" of airplanes well before their projected expected expiration dates for sure.

Just because of the A340 has showed up in catalogs for near 20 years does not mean it has done its job. Given what looks like the 330/340s premature demise, it is far from actually generating positive economic returns on the resources invested. Making a profit is the airplanes job.

On the other hand, the basic 777 fuselage and systems remain alive in kicking in the 773ER/772LR.
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:34 pm

"Now you got me confused. Are you suggesting B will have to go as far as to CREATE a market for their traded-in A345s (as payment for the 772LR) then?"

I think you have been confused about the issues discussed here well before I further added to your state of miscomprehension.

I am suggesting, no, telling you that your assement of "very,very limited" demand for aircraft in the so-called C-market truly seems to apply more to the 345 than the competing 777LR which has been racking up orders very recently. Some orders are intended to replace 345. If Boeing Aircraft Trading picks up some these airplanes, I am sure that some Sheikh or operator of 345s such as Thai will end up with them.
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:47 pm

Quoting N79969 (Reply 26):
I am telling you that your assessment of "very,very limited" demand for aircraft in the so-called C-market truly seems to apply more to the 345 than the competing 777LR which has been racking up orders very recently.

That's what I meant too, so the only miscomprehension here was yours. I suggest you read again what I have said in reply 3. Maybe you'll see than that was precisely the tone of my reply, namely that B will find itself with very unwanted planes. You see, I am not always shooting at the 777, you don't have to become paranoia when reading a post from me....
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Mon May 23, 2005 11:56 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
the only version of their lucrative T7 they will still be able to sell (by one digit numbers) is the very exotic ultra-long haul 777-200LR....

Have you forgotten about the 773ER? The A350 doesn't have the payload-range to compete.
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AngelAirways
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 12:17 am

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 2):
One question is why is Emirates giving up the A345? The A345 is not meeting up to their expectations ?

Maybe because they can't fit in 3-4-3 seating like they do on T7s Big grin

I bet the 350 is gonna have to be made wider to accomodate 9 abreast for EK...
 
zoom1018
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting Angelairways (Reply 29):
I bet the 350 is gonna have to be made wider to accomodate 9 abreast for EK...

with only one or two inches "wider" than 330/340... WOW!
 
ATLTraveler
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 12:57 am

I am sure Jet will be more than happy to get those 340's off their hands. With the market being so strong for the India-US direct flights there should be plenty of demand for these birds !
 
LY4XELD
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 8):
Quoting PADSpot (Reply 8):
The 777-200/200ER reaching the end of its life in 2011 after about 16/14 years??? Certainly not.

Reaching the end of its commercial life for a new planes, not the airframe life.

And you're still wrong...not to mention your comment makes no sense. I think EK has a higher than average turnover of its fleets. It seemse like every time a new aircraft is promised, they're on board and looking for the dotted line. Most fleets stay around much longer than those at EK.
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jacobin777
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 2:39 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 19):
Another Sabenapilot gem. The market for B777LR is so limited that Air France, Air Canada, and Air India just signed up for some the other day are paying actual money.

not to mention PK's and BR's previous order!

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 20):
. Wouldn't it be more interesting to talk about the premature end of the core of the 777 family and the unexpected urgent need for B to announce a 777 successor too now?

hmmm...Boeing is stepping up their production rate...and at the earliest, the Boeing 777 line will last another 5-10 years...which will give it a good 15-20 year run....MINIMUM!

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 20):
ey will still be able to sell (by one digit numbers) is the very exotic ultra-long haul 777-200LR..

really? Last I knew, sales for the -200LR have it double digits...and if the plane performs upto specs, we can see more orders for it...

In fact, BA management (CEO at least) believe that the dash -200LR might be in line even before the A380

"In terms of its fleet, Eddington said BA's......"It could be dash 300ERs, which is a superb 747-400 replacement, and more dash 200s and even the dash 200LR."

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=1106
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ikramerica
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 2:42 am

Why are some people saying the 777 is "dead" because they can only sell 773ER/772LR at this point? Isn't this the way of all large jets in history? They start with a base model/range, then go to an IGW version, then to a stretched version, then to an IGW stretched version, then to a super range model, and sales of the originals taper off as carriers already have those, and now want to integrate longer/denser routes to their system. Was the 747 dead when they went to the 300, which severely hampered the sales of 200 models, and then replaced all with the 400/400ER? No, Boeing sold tons of 747-4s, and the model is only now being cycled out of top tier inventories. Same is happening with the 777. But the same doesn't seem to be happening for the 340.

Maybe it's because the 773ER exceeded Boeing's projections, proving to customers not only that it is a good plane, but that the 777LR is also going to work as advertised or better. I followed the 3ER very closely, and watching Boeing range charts, which got bigger, and bigger, and bigger. Started as shorter range than the 2ER, then had an equal circle, then a very slightly bigger circle, now a noticeably bigger circle. Which honestly made the case for the 3ER, but hurt the case for the 2ER (carries fewer, not as far). The 2LR allows current exclusive 2/2ER customers to add another jet of the same capacity but with increased range.

That might also be one of the issues with the 330/340. While they have the same cockpit, they have different interior configurations between the 2/3/5/600, which makes route optimization harder. Their own desire to cover all the bases in size actually limits their commonality. Ask jetblue or southwest about interchangeable aircraft. The 777 works differently. You can be a 2/2ER customer without being a 3/3ER customer and vice versa, but still cover all your routes with identical interiors.

As for 2LR routes, they are limited compared to the 3ER, but there are enough, and they are new, and the benefit of the LR is it will do standard routes efficiently as well. It will open up profitable (with cargo) Tokyo to South America routes and South Africa routes, Canada to South Asia and Australia, West Coast USA to western Australia, East Coast US to Auckland, West Coast USA to South Africa and South Asia, Dubai to Central/Sout America, London/New York to Sydney (depends on flight testing results), etc. But it will also be efficient on ER routes and share the same interior config/pax density (unlike the current use of the 345), which makes it more valuable for a flexible airline in a changing world.

(Not to mention with the 777F being based on the 777LR, it demonstrates a valuable exit plan in the future like the 744SF program does now...)
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Rj111
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 11):
Wow...and it only took Airbus 3 tries since none of A340-series could do the job.

All the A340's came out before their respective 777 rivals. So it was Boeing doing the trying.

Quoting N79969 (Reply 24):
Just because of the A340 has showed up in catalogs for near 20 years does not mean it has done its job. Given what looks like the 330/340s premature demise, it is far from actually generating positive economic returns on the resources invested. Making a profit is the airplanes job.

You are aware that the A330/A340 has sold around 900 copies aren't you?  Yeah sure

Nice to see Boeing up to there good ole we'll take your A340s trick again.

They'll be Airbus' biggest customer soon!
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
. Finally EK will trade some aircraft instead of adding more to the fleet

Couldn't agree more. With so many deliveries in the pipeline they'll be able to market a very young average fleet age, something which SQ seemed to do with quite some success.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 20):
It tells you the A340 will be replaced by the A350 as from early next decade on and B is suddenly in urgent unexpected need of something brand new in this upper market segment too now, or the only version of their lucrative T7 they will still be able to sell (by one digit numbers) is the very exotic ultra-long haul 777-200LR....

With respect. You've forgotten the 773ER. The last single digit order for this model was an add-on order for Air France via ILFC. Since that order Boeing have sold 5 EY, 18 AC & 15 to AI. Sir, those are not the definition of a "single digit order". As for the "very exotic" 772LR it appears it'll sell more frames this year than the A345 since it's inception.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 26):
Maybe you'll see than that was precisely the tone of my reply, namely that B will find itself with very unwanted planes

Respectfully, again, you've forgotten a precedent. CX A343s, that's what was said when Boeing took SQs A343s. How many of those have they not placed now? Ok, it may take a little time but I don't think Airbus is will threaten not to service the airplanes in this case so they should be more marketable.

Here's a "wildcard" call. Boeing take EK's A345 and offer them to CX as part of a 747Adv & ULR package. They place 772LR with EK and prevent CX from buying A345s direct from Airbus whilst gaining a launch order for the 747Adv. Just my $.02

Regards
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N60659
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 35):
Here's a "wildcard" call. Boeing take EK's A345 and offer them to CX as part of a 747Adv & ULR package. They place 772LR with EK and prevent CX from buying A345s direct from Airbus whilst gaining a launch order for the 747Adv.

Very interesting thought indeed!!! Additionally, what becomes of EK's order of the 18 A340-600. Could some (or all) of these be converted into A350 orders?

-N60659
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DAYflyer
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 20):
so what if the a350 puts the 777 out to pasture? it won't happen until 2012 - 2015. that's a lot of time for boeing to remain in the dominant position in that market. if anything, i see the a350 killing the a340 between now and then. why buy the second best plane in a market if you're an airbus customer when a replacement is on the way that will have the same cockpit and training guidlines?

A good point. Besides, Boeing will simply take the new 787 technology to leap past the A-350 with the 797, which will replace the 777 (according to the magic crystal ball here in my office). Big grin

But seriously B will take the new 787 technology and apply it to everything going forward, hence the 777 replacement will be based on that.
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ita350
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 3:49 am

I think its going to be some time till we see a 777 replacement. It would still be interesting to see airbus come up with competition for the 777-200ER though.
 
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 31):
Nice to see Boeing up to there good ole we'll take your A340s trick again.

And, by your definition, that gives Airbus a "passcard" on trading in 772A/ER?  Yeah sure Aircraft manufacturer's have been doing this for quite some time. Not just Boeing and Airbus either.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 31):
They'll be Airbus' biggest customer soon!

I believe you'll find that ILFC will hotly contest that point with you sir

Regards
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 18):
I wonder what ads for the A350 will say?
Perhaps-- "4 engines-4-long-haul-- we were just kidding!"

2GOOD2NEED4ENGINES  Wink


Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 20):
or the only version of their lucrative T7 they will still be able to sell (by one digit numbers) is the very exotic ultra-long haul 777-200LR

...funny you should say that, considering that they haven't sold any firm (to built to those specifications) at this point.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 34):
You are aware that the A330/A340 has sold around 900 copies aren't you?

...I hope he isn't, considering that they haven't sold anywhere near that amount  Silly
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
SNATH
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 4:14 am

Hi Fred,

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 37):
2GOOD2NEED4ENGINES

I still like the 2 engines 2 make money version!

Tony
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gaut
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 38):
Quoting RJ111 (Reply 34):
You are aware that the A330/A340 has sold around 900 copies aren't you?

...I hope he isn't, considering that they haven't sold anywhere near that amount

Total A330/340 sales: 905
Total A330/340 deliveries: 642

A332: 285
A333: 239
A342/3: 241
A345: 26
A346: 114

For me, as a pax, the A340 is my favorite aircraft: always enjoyed a smooth and quiet flight (but I never flown the B777 yet)!

regards,
Gaut
«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
 
whitehatter
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 4:48 am

Once we take all the cheerleading and armchair engineering out of this thread, here are some inportant words which have (as per usual) been ignored by the A v B blowhards

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
or an agent of the manufacturer

That to me could indicate a deal with people like GECAS or ILFC to remarket the aircraft. Admittedly it causes some complexity but takes a lot of pressure on Boeing or Airbus out of the deal.

It could even be a completely new arrangement which some of the serious deal watchers have been trying to discuss here (but ending up buried under cheerleading and fake performance figure quotes). Emirates could make the leap into a larger lease business and set up an entity along the lines of SALE, buying back the tradeins from the manufacturer and remarketing them. The new leasing arm would be, like SALE, an independent entity and a third party in the contracts.

Interesting to watch how this proposed fleet renewal pans out.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
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scbriml
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 38):
...I hope he isn't, considering that they haven't sold anywhere near that amount

Wishful thinking I'm afraid ConcordeBoy! Airbus has sold over 900 A330/340 family.  wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 4:56 am

I doubt Boeing is too worried about the A350 eating 777-200ER sales. The 777-300ER and 200LR are both far superior to their competitors, so Boeing is pretty safe there. And if the A350 gets too popular, all B has to do is stretch the 787 into a 787-10 (which they are probably planning anyway). This may provoke B to launch the 787-10 earlier than anticipated, but they aren't going to just be eliminated from the large twin market.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 5:03 am

...was looking at delivery stats, my mistake  angel 
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AngelAirways
Posts: 480
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting Atltraveler (Reply 27):
I am sure Jet will be more than happy to get those 340's off their hands. With the market being so strong for the India-US direct flights there should be plenty of demand for these birds !

Jet is so desperate for aircraft they are currently looking to aquire 747-400s
(one of the lessors they are looking at is United and their desert ones)

and that is in addition to the leasing of brand new A330s from next year. They have gone private and they are on a roll!
 
N60659
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 5:17 am

Quoting AngelAirways (Reply 45):
They have gone private and they are on a roll!

9W has always been privately owned. They went public with an IPO earlier this year.

-N60659
Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
 
777STL
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 31):
You are aware that the A330/A340 has sold around 900 copies aren't you?  

Nice to see Boeing up to there good ole we'll take your A340s trick again.

They'll be Airbus' biggest customer soon!

With all due respect, if you're going to compare two aircraft models against the 777, you should throw the 767 in there as well. That being said, Boeing has sold more 767s than Airbus has 330s and 340s combined.
PHX based
 
AngelAirways
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting N60659 (Reply 46):
9W has always been privately owned. They went public with an IPO earlier this year.

My profound apologies. Of course they just went public. I have had a long day so it is normal for my airy head to do things such as swap the words private and public...

 yawn  swirl  faint 
 
AngelAirways
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RE: Emirates To Trade Up To New Twins

Tue May 24, 2005 6:06 am

Quoting Zoom1018 (Reply 26):
with only one or two inches "wider" than 330/340... WOW!

By the way.. if it were only 1 or 2 inches wider Airbus wouldn't even bother with a new cross section. Either they keep the same A300 x-sec'n or they make it significantly wider.. something Leahy has hinted at which may be influenced by EK. Of course they would prefer to keep it the same width if they could prove to EK that the economics can be achieved by making it longer instead of wider. (Same arguement as 346 vs 773).

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