fubar37
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A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 3:31 am

What are the chances of an A380 landing at YYZ sometime in the future? Maybe just the freighters for FEDEX? Sorry if this was brought up already.
 
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yyz717
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 3:56 am

Zero to none, I would say.

Of all the current A380 customers, the only possible one to service YYZ with the A380 is due course is perhaps LH. FRA-YYZ certainly will not be an initial LH A380 route though.

Fedex will never, ever, fly the A380 to YYZ.

YUL will likely see A380 service for years before YYZ does, courtesy of AF.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
AirbusCanada
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 6:14 am

Chances YVR and YUL will see 380 serice before Toronto.

Having said that, a lot of the operator that currently flies the 747/777 to YYZ will eventually order the 380 and fly them to YYZ.
BA, AI, LH, CX,QC,AF,JAL/ANA comes to mind. But it will be while b4 we see any of these arilines fly them to Toronto.
 
yul332LX
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 6:18 am

KE perhaps... but considering that Korean ordered a very limited number of A380s, YYZ is surely not in the top of their list.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
boac707
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 7:37 am

Can the ramps, runways and taxiways at YYZ withstand the weight and width of the this thing?
smokey classics to the end of time
 
avek00
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 7:47 am

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 2):
BA, AI, LH, CX,QC,AF,JAL/ANA

With the limited exception of LH, not ONE of the airlines you mentioned would have a good reason to fly A380s into YYZ on a consistent basis.
Live life to the fullest.
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 2):
Having said that, a lot of the operator that currently flies the 747/777 to YYZ will eventually order the 380 and fly them to YYZ.
BA, AI, LH, CX,QC,AF,JAL/ANA comes to mind. But it will be while b4 we see any of these arilines fly them to Toronto.

Not to offend you, but what are you smoking? I would hardly say that BA is a sure thing for the A380 and after Airbus' temper tantrum I doubt they will be ordering ANYTHING airbus anytime soon. ANA and JAL, I doubt Japan will order it and ANA is a maybe.
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avek00
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 6):
I would hardly say that BA is a sure thing for the A380 and after Airbus' temper tantrum I doubt they will be ordering ANYTHING airbus anytime soon. ANA and JAL, I doubt Japan will order it and ANA is a maybe.

Heck, I'll even give benefit of the doubt on said airlines ordering the 380 in the first place - they *STILL* won't be flying them into YYZ.
Live life to the fullest.
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 10:36 am

I must disagree with my esteemed colleagues on a.net.
You can almost certainly expect to see an EK A380 at YYZ in the coming years. There is lots of VFR traffic to South Asia out of YYZ and EK will satisfy the demand.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
CXYYZ
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 12:00 pm

Whether we see A380s at YYZ is largely up to the GTAA I fear. If they could get their landing fees in line and develop the airport's potential as a gateway to North America, I think the chances would be much better. In the current state, I tend to agree with everything above. There's a possibility that we'll see them eventually, but not on a regular basis any time really soon.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Wed May 25, 2005 1:44 pm

I think right now only three airlines have the potential to fly the A380-800 to YYZ: CX (if as expected they buy the plane or do a long-term lease through ILFC), LH and maybe VS.

CX could certainly use the A388 on the HKG-YYZ route, given the very large number of Hong Kong expatriates living in the Toronto area.
 
CXYYZ
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Thu May 26, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 10):
CX could certainly use the A388 on the HKG-YYZ route, given the very large number of Hong Kong expatriates living in the Toronto area.

As much as I would love to see CX flying A388s to YYZ, I think it's more likely that they'd add a second frequency on the route, possibly even one in three class configuration, rather than flying the A388.

There are a number of advantages for CX in running a second flight.
-Flexibility. There's a lot to be said for just providing the option of a second flight.
-Along those lines, they could potentially grab some of AC's pax when they are choosing AC based exclusively on scheduling.
-Two class configuration does very well at YYZ, and not just for CX. A388 is likely to have too much capacity in F, so a second flight operated by a three class a/c could offer the option of F while not having to fill it up with upgrades.
-Also, if CX were to decide to run one 2-class and one 3-class A343 per day, they'd have 530 seats available which is more than they're likely to have any potential A388s configured for anyway.
 
avek00
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Thu May 26, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 10):
CX could certainly use the A388 on the HKG-YYZ route, given the very large number of Hong Kong expatriates living in the Toronto area.

...and lose an A380-load of money serving a market that's highly seasonal and weak on premium demand.
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CXYYZ
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Thu May 26, 2005 10:49 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):

Unless you have statistics to back that up, then I really challenge that. YYZ-HKG is a solid route. CX loads are reported to be high and except for during SARS they command a solid price for both Y and J. While there is relatively little F demand coming out of YYZ, there is a good deal of J demand from business travellers and wealthier astronaut families. Standard policy for many (most?) Toronto-based companies is J for intercontinental flights, but they won't pay for F.
 
cayman
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Thu May 26, 2005 11:06 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):
...and lose an A380-load of money serving a market that's highly seasonal and weak on premium demand

using that logic there should be NO hope of YUL seeing the 380 yet AF is going to launch it to YUL among others---

I think you underestimate YYZ as a destination in your suggestion that it is highly seasonal and lacks any premium traffic---slightly short sighted view with respect
 
avek00
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Thu May 26, 2005 11:37 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 14):
I think you underestimate YYZ as a destination in your suggestion that it is highly seasonal and lacks any premium traffic---slightly short sighted view with respect

Don't take my word for it - look at most longhaul carriers serving YYZ. Generally speaking, YYZ is a VFR market served almost exclusively by 2-cabin aircraft.
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avek00
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Thu May 26, 2005 11:41 am

Quoting CXYYZ (Reply 13):
Unless you have statistics to back that up, then I really challenge that. YYZ-HKG is a solid route.

Look at the history of the route - it started with a 747 and was DOWNGAUGED to a 340.
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EnviroTO
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Thu May 26, 2005 5:11 pm

The lack of three cabins doesn't indicate that YYZ is more VFR. Many businesses have "business class only" rules for their employees so a lack of First Class demand may be more of a Canadian market issue than an indicator of VFR. Many Canadian executives aren't paid as much as their counterparts around the world in charge of similar sized operations. In the merger of Manulife and John Hancock the CEO of JH made significantly more that the CEO of Manulife as an example. Air Canada doesn't have any first class product at all... do you think that means that all of Canada is a big VFR recreational getaway?
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Thu May 26, 2005 11:39 pm

YYZ is a major and important destination for almost all of the 40+ airlines that serve it. However, there just isn't as large a demand for a premium F class product as you might think.
IMHO there is probably a higher demand for a F class product into YVR.

Cheers,
Kaz

[Edited 2005-05-26 16:50:06]
 
yul332LX
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 16):
Look at the history of the route - it started with a 747 and was DOWNGAUGED to a 340.

...and yet, CX mentioned on several occasions that YYZ is likely to see a second flight in coming years.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
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yyz717
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 16):
Quoting CXYYZ (Reply 13):
Unless you have statistics to back that up, then I really challenge that. YYZ-HKG is a solid route.

Look at the history of the route - it started with a 747 and was DOWNGAUGED to a 340.

When CX operated the 744 into YYZ, the route was only 3x or 4x weekly. The route has been consistently 343 since it became daily. So while it may have downgauged, total seats increased.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
avek00
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 19):
...and yet, CX mentioned on several occasions that YYZ is likely to see a second flight in coming years.

Sure - thing is, that works AGAINST the possibility of CX bringing an A380 to YYZ.
Live life to the fullest.
 
flyyul
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 8:18 am

Im going to play devil's advocate here,

If Cathay was as profitable on YYZHKG as some have claim,and that this was in EXCESS to their average route profitability, then Cathay would have allocated more seats/bigger gauge/and or more frequencies to YYZ.

They have not. But they have elsewhere, which suggests, that YYZ may have average profitability conditions (in relation to their average individual flight profitability).

Perhaps eventually a 346 or 744 could find itself in YYZ, but CX has other priorities, for which there are obvious reasons.
 
yul332LX
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 8:32 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 21):
Sure - thing is, that works AGAINST the possibility of CX bringing an A380 to YYZ.

Absolutely right. But it shows you that the supposedly highly-seasonal-weak-on-premium-demand-route is not doing as bad as you hinted.

Regarding the other carriers, EK mentioned in April that since they are limited by the UAE-Canada bilateral agreement, they will not only send the A380 to YYZ, but the aircraft will be in a high-density two-class config.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
avek00
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 22):
If Cathay was as profitable on YYZHKG as some have claim,and that this was in EXCESS to their average route profitability, then Cathay would have allocated more seats/bigger gauge/and or more frequencies to YYZ.

That's my point - Cathay has already DOWNGAUGED the YYZ flight from a 744 to a 340 as it is.
Live life to the fullest.
 
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yyz717
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 24):
That's my point - Cathay has already DOWNGAUGED the YYZ flight from a 744 to a 340 as it is.

While doubling frequencies. A daily 343 provides more seats than 4 weekly 744's.

In due course, if growth continues on this route the 343 will be upgraded to the 744 on some of the flights.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
avek00
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 25):
In due course, if growth continues on this route the 343 will be upgraded to the 744 on some of the flights.

Perhaps it will be upgauged to a 744/346, or else the frequency increased. But a CX 380 (and again, I'm giving the 'CX will order 380' the benefit of the doubt as it is) at YYZ isn't realistic, now or in the foreseeable future.
Live life to the fullest.
 
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yyz717
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RE: A380 At YYZ...

Fri May 27, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 26):
But a CX 380 (and again, I'm giving the 'CX will order 380' the benefit of the doubt as it is) at YYZ isn't realistic, now or in the foreseeable future.

Yes. I agree completely. Even if CX had the behemoth on order. Which they don't.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.

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