dl021
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Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 9:05 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=anZzwvh.8J_A&refer=top_world_news

The President of Indonesia attended the signing of the deal with Boeing and Lion Air in Chicago.

All the articles say up to 60 aircraft, including the 739X.

Looks like Boeing is on a serious roll.

[Edited 2005-05-26 14:06:13]
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DeltaWings
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 9:14 pm

The A320 which competes with the 737-900 carries up to 150 million people LOL , i dont want to know how that plane looks like

~DeltaWings

[Edited 2005-05-26 14:15:53]
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miaskies
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 9:22 pm

Here is a link from my local newspaper:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/11742919.htm

Congrats to Boeing! and Lion Air!
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
dl021
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 9:28 pm

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
The A320 which competes with the 737-900 carries up to 150 million people LOL , i dont want to know how that plane looks like

I saw that too, and I think that some writer was working at 0400 trying to get the story out and mixed up his facts.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
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keesje
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 9:44 pm

Also the lost header "Trade Deficit", probably a piece cut out by a senior editor for some reason but forgot the header.

A better informed source:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...echnology/2002288877_boeing26.html

It will be also 737-900X which is a good thing IMO.

IMO it has potential with airlines that e.g. do a lot US cross continentals and European leisure carriers that can now utilize the -900's full lenght (200-220 pax)..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 9:59 pm

One Nation Under God
 
Leskova
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 pm

Congrats on closing the deal, but after reading the comments in this thread...
Lion Air Close To A 60 Aircraft Order! (by Intothinair May 17 2005 in Civil Aviation)

... it sounds more like a "Good Luck, Boeing - you'll need it!" scenario.

Regards,
Frank
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starrion
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 10:55 pm

I find myself in agreement with Leskova-

While this sounds great, is this anything more than PR spin? For the third huge 737 order of the year after Ryanair and China, it's great news but is it actaully going to happen? Primaris booked 20 787's and some 737's last summer and I don't recall seeing that order ever hit the books either.

I could announce intentions to buy 60 737's too, but it doens't mean I'd be able to find the financing to do so.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
dl021
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 11:36 pm

No more than the USAir/AWA deal for A-350s, or any of several deals Airbus has made with shaky airlines by offering interesting financing packages.

Lion Air seems to have the support of the government, and as long as they do find the money Boeing's in business.

For my money, though, any week with over 100 orders mooted is a good week.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
mandala499
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 11:42 pm

While this sounds great, is this anything more than PR spin?

Here's the answer...
"Lion Air, a low-cost Indonesian airline that hopes to expand operations in Southeast Asia, will sign a preliminary agreement with Boeing in Washington, D.C., for up to 60 of its 737s, according to people familiar with the deal.

Deliveries would begin next year once a firm contract is negotiated.

They're just booking the delivery slots... No commitment... This could be a move by Lion to boost up it's credibility to use this preliminary agreement to get the funding it needs... "We've booked the slots but now we need the money to pay for the planes"... then play on investors' emotions... A typical Indonesian game...

In the words of fellow member HB-IWC, "It's not worth the paper it is written on."

Ironically the President of Indonesia flew to the US on Garuda (Lion's main enemy) on an A330 (Boeing's rival)... Comical...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
starrion
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 11:46 pm

100 orders? What did I miss?

I am equally distrustful of the A350 order. I will be surprised if the AWA/US frankenairline see one of those widebodies. I would be just as dubious of a doctor who proposed grafting healthy parts onto a corpse. Especially when the donor looks to have a better chance of surviving than the recipient.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
N79969
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Thu May 26, 2005 11:49 pm

I share Leskova's sentiment on this as well. Having read some of the better informed views such as those of Mandala499, this is not quite the same as having Ryanair or ANA signing paper.
 
rj777
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 9):
will sign a preliminary agreement with Boeing in Washington, D.C.,

Washington, D.C.? What, do they need the Government to witness the agreement so Airbus doesn't cry foul?!
 
boeingbus
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 12:41 am

Boeing Issues Statement on Lion Air 737 Announcement... Launch is a sure thing, as long this order finalized...

http://www.boeing.com/news/breakingnews/2005/050526g.html

The agreement includes a combination of 737-800s and the proposed 737-900X, pending finalization of the definitive agreement and a launch of the 737-900X.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
aeropiggot
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 2:00 am

Quote:
In the words of fellow member HB-IWC, "It's not worth the paper it is written on."

Reserving delivery position and signing preliminary agreements, are nothing unusual and is in fact the norm in the industry. Lion air might be angling for Ex-IM bank financing etc...

Quote:
Ironically the President of Indonesia flew to the US on Garuda (Lion's main enemy) on an A330 (Boeing's rival)... Comical

Lion Air does not operate any wide body aircraft, and the 737 even though a great airplane, does not have the legs to cross the Pacific Ocean....none Stop???  blockhead 
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
 
ultrapig
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 2:11 am

This probably means that Boeing will proceed with the 900x-what's the chance SW will order some?
 
ultrapig
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 2:13 am

How would the 900x compare in passenger laod cargo space and range with a 757-200? How ould the burn per passenger mile vary?
 
whitehatter
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 2:22 am

Well done to BCA for the deal. Hopefully it is continued evidence that Boeing is now more aggressive about marketing its products.

Boeing must have been able to offer a better all-round deal with finance, delivery slots and available options. It's an important deal too as it lessens the FR/WN stranglehold a bit more.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
whitehatter
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 4:47 am

CNN story on the deal, confirming Boeing are being more proactive with regard to deal chasing and finance

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS...5/25/indonesia.air.reut/index.html
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
wingman
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 6:23 am

I'm really starting to think Boeing might be smart to become the first Fortune 50 company ever to eliminate the CEO position. They've been on a roll without anyone at the top hampering the sales and finance guys.
 
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keesje
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 6:27 am

Likely Boeing will soon officially launch the 737-900.

Might require a more powerfull cfm56-7 variant..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 7:03 am

Congrats! to Boeing and Lion.

When do we see the offical launch of the 900x and what other carriers will purchase them?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 15):
This probably means that Boeing will proceed with the 900x-what's the chance SW will order some?

If you mean Southwest (WN), then the answer is none. WN will order 737-600's before they order anything stretched.
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mandala499
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 11:38 am

AeroPiggot,
The Indonesian President normally travels on a GA A330 for long haul... The comment was not about why doesn't the president fly on a Lion aircraft (which will probably result in our Vice-President being our President before the end of the trip), but it's throwing a pun... The President of Indonesia flying on a Garuda Airbus to see a Lion Boeing deal... In Indonesia, the Garuda v Lion war is waaaay more interesting than the Airbus v Boeing wars...

Quoting the Lion CNN link http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS...5/25/indonesia.air.reut/index.html

"The spokesman gave no more details on the financing plan for privately owned Lion Air, which has made inroads into the local market with competitive ticket fares and flights to popular Indonesian destinations.

Alhabsi also declined to say who owned the airline, except that it was Indonesian."

Well... as far as I know, no local financiers will be mad enough to finance such an order... Lion has a reputation of not paying their obligations! (ask maintenance guys and hotels for crew stays!)... Secondly, their financing requests were rejected in the past (20 A320 financing were rejected 2 years ago).

Secondly, who owns the airline? This is a public mystery... I can post it here but I'll be sued immediately  Smile

"Lion's current fleet comprised 38 aircraft, Alhabsi said, adding that around half of those were leased."

On the last count we made early this month, their fleet consists of 27 aircraft.

"Following the deal, Lion Air might launch an initial public offering of its shares either next year or in 2007, he added."

Now they've secured the delivery slots... I would not be surprised if...
1. Lion can't get the financing, and then goes to the investors and say... "We've secured the delivery slots with struggle and perseverence, but those damn foreigners won't give us financing... Please help us..." *Yes they've done something like this before*.
2. If #1 fails, they'll go and use the IPO to finance the deal... BUT, knowing how hyped up Lion's image is amongst the novice investors, those people will flock to buy Lion shares without even noticing big chunks of information missing from the prospectus... then after the IPO... they won't get the aircraft citing... "it's too late..." or "we're not getting support we need from (insert black sheep here)..."

Sounds unlikely? They've done it before... If they blame a worn out tyre bursting upon landing as "We're convinced the airport has put nails or sharp objects on the runway" on public record and through the mouth of Alhabsi it's PR man who's now having his ego blown with CNN asking him questions about this order... What's stopping them from making crazier comments in the future?

Seriously, O'Leary should learn from this guy!

Good Luck Boeing... U're gonna need it!

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
9v-svc
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 1:59 pm

In the first place, why does Lion Air needs the range and capacity of the 737-900X? Are they being so overambitious ordering such an advanced aircraft ? How many airports in Indonesian has the runway for this planes ? There are more questions that I want to ask but I guess Lion Air has figured out already to make such a bold order. Anyway, there had already been rumours linking them to widebodies like the B777 and B747-400.They need to sort out their domestic problems first which I have doubt they have before discussing about flying long haul. You can refer to the earlier topic for more information on this airline thanks to Mandala499 and HB-IWC for a very clear view on this topic.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 23):
Secondly, who owns the airline? This is a public mystery... I can post it here but I'll be sued immediately

My exact thoughts, I had discussions with Mandala499 and some of my Indonesian friends and we had a long discussion over Lion Airlines. It's a mystery where they get the funds.

I have doubts about Lion Airlines and won't believe until I see the aircraft in Lion Airlines colours .
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
lutfi
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 3:31 pm

Eddie Tansil...?

(a famous Indonesian, last heard of in Xiamen)
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 5:11 pm

All of the news coverage I have read over the past day has been riddled with inaccuracies, half-truths and outright lies. Lion Air is neither operating a fleet of 34 airframes, not does it fly to the number of destinations I have been reading in some of those articles. It also does not own its own leasing company, as reported by the Asian Wall Street Journal.

This order will never materialize for a variety of reasons, which we have been discussing at length over at the other topic, which has been running since last week. I fail to understand, though, how reputed news agencies can pick up a story like that without the least bit of background checking.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 6:03 pm

Primaris booked 20 787's and some 737's last summer and I don't recall seeing that order ever hit the books either. Primaris web-site shows their route map and from 2008 onwards it has flights to the UK, a quick click on the UK airports shows the B787 operating the flight
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mandala499
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RE: Lion Air Goes Boeing X 60 Airplanes

Fri May 27, 2005 11:00 pm

HB-IWC...
Why have this news made it? Simple... No Indonesian airline have been this bold... whether the order is a complete PR stunt or not the media don't really care!

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !

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