Bsmalls35
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Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:20 pm

Just in, Egyptair is buying 12 737-800s, did not see this one coming. Way to go Boeing!
 
starrion
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:25 pm

Seriously?

Where was this reported? I thought they were going to Airbus....

Damn, Boeing is having themselves a fine May. They better get the production rate ramped up.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
Bsmalls35
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:29 pm

Just saw it on Reuters. Sorry, I'm having problems posting the link.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:30 pm

Egyptair was more or less on a way to a Airbus-only fleet. A 738 would not really fit into that fleet simplification.
 
commavia
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:32 pm

Link

More good news for Boeing!
 
Orion737
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:33 pm

738 is ideal for Egyptairs intra African routes and perhaps we will now see more destinations served on the African continent. Cairo is the largest city in Africa so lets see more destinations in Africa served by the 738 which has the required range and suitable capacity.
 
starrion
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:35 pm

That's 127 orders for the 737 announced this month.

Let alone 23 widebody orders.

Whatever they are feeding the Salespeople ($$) they need to keep doing it.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
columba
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:36 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Egyptair was more or less on a way to a Airbus-only fleet. A 738 would not really fit into that fleet simplification

Egyptair is famous for its mixed fleet and the change of aircraft on certain routes.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:38 pm

Wow...what a score for Boeing. Another shocker. Not as big a shocker as the NW order for the 787, but a shocker nonetheless. I especially thought after the 767 crash and the fingerpointing in the FAA that they would rather die than order another Boeing aircraft.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Egyptair was more or less on a way to a Airbus-only fleet.
One Nation Under God
 
mauriceb
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:44 pm

this is great news!!!! a month ago i still thought they would sell theire 777's in favour of more A330's/A320's , but it seems like they have a good relationship with boeing agaiN! (after the crash it didn't looked to positive)
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:52 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but their A320s are some of the oldest around aren't they? Delivered late 80s. Though this certainly isn't old by aviation standards. I could see them as pretty strong 739X candidtaes now, though I believe they also have some A321s so that could be messy.

Are those orders quoted above for the 737 inclusive of the Lion Air purchase? Because I have serious doubts about the long term viability of that order and desirability of having it on the books for Boeing.
 
Orion737
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 10:54 pm

I would think the 739s would be good for MS too. Those 321s must suffer from payload penalties at some of Egyptairs hot airfields!
 
PHXinterrupted
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 11:14 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Egyptair was more or less on a way to a Airbus-only fleet. A 738 would not really fit into that fleet simplification.

You probably said the same thing about Air Canada and Northwest. Congrats to Boeing!
Keepin' it real.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 11:17 pm

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 12):
You probably said the same thing about Air Canada and Northwest. Congrats to Boeing!

About AC, yes, about NW, never, if just for their 747s. And I second your Boeing comment  Wink .
 
Falcon84
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 11:22 pm

The big question is: will Airbus throw a fit and sue or threaten?  Wink
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Udo
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 11:30 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 8):
Wow...what a score for Boeing. Another shocker.

Shocker? Not even surprising. Egypt Air has always operated a mixed fleet and after their recent A320 and A330 orders it was time to order some Boeings. Egypt is like China, they simply try to keep the political balance.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 8):
I especially thought after the 767 crash and the fingerpointing in the FAA that they would rather die than order another Boeing aircraft.

No way, they would not kill the cow which feeds them...  Yeah sure


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
B742
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 11:41 pm

Would these new 738's only replace the 737's or the A32X's aswell?

The 900X would be a great choice also for MS!

Rob!
 
mauriceb
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 11:45 pm

Would these new 738's only replace the 737's or the A32X's aswell?

The 900X would be a great choice also for MS!

Rob!


it say's its for expansion...
 
FlySSC
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Fri May 27, 2005 11:51 pm

Their A320s are some of the oldest around, delivered in the 80

 no  Not really.

MS is operating a fleet of 12 A320. The oldest one was delivered in May 1991. 4 more between MAY and Nov. 1991. 2 in 1993 and 5 in 2003. They also fly 2 A321 delivered in 1997.
This is far from being an "old" fleet.

If true, this is a quite surprising order... MS's 737 was reduced to only 3 B735... and extra A320/A321 or even A319 to replace those B735 would have been more logical.
 
Korg747
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 1:48 am

I'm in shock. Boeing must've offered a really good price on these 738s. They operate the A320 already. I kind of expect the 7 old A320s to be phased out soon. Will egyptair get the winglests on these 737s?
Please excuse my English!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 2:45 am

Politics aside..........

I am surprised by this order - I too thought that Egyptair was moving towards an all-Airbus fleet, atleast for narrowbody airliners. There were rumors that Egyptair was preparing to place an order, but it was assumed that the new order would be for regional jets or small airliners in the 70-90 pax class and that the smaller aircraft would be for expansion, local routes and to possibly replace the remaining 735s. Guess not. While I still expect the 735s to be retired in the medium-term future, Egyptair is looking to expand and my guess would be that they will fly the 738s and A32Xs side by side for atleast a few years. Egyptair has always had a very varied fleet, operating many different types.

Another nice surprise for Boeing.
 
behramjee
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 2:52 am

I would expect MS to equip these B 738s with winglets thus enabling them to fly 4-6 hour flights across Africa, Europe and the Middle East on low density routes. The B 738 with winglets is a better aircraft than the A 320 on 4-6 hour flights and that was the crucial factor why Air India Express chose it over the A 320s when they ordered 15 of the type.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 3:05 am

Egyptair need more capacity for their expanding North European routes, and also growth into Central Europe.

I'm glad to see them expanding, no matter who they buy from. Egypt is another nation which has geography on its side, and the potential for connections via CAI in the future could be a major money earner for them.

A mixed fleet policy for a flag carrier is an operational decision, and one which has its merits too. I've always been wary of the idea of an airline being a 'hostage' to just one manufacturer. But that's just me... twocents 
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
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yyz717
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 3:07 am

Another coup for Boeing.

Looks like the Egyptair/Boeing relationship has improved then since the Egyptian 763 pilot suicide.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
advancedkid
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 6:45 am

Like Israel, Egypt is a US aid recipient of several billion US$ annual. So it's not surprising at all if the aid is involved.

Advanced
 
futurestar68
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 6:57 am

Will those 738s have winglets?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 7:11 am

Quoting Bsmalls35 (Thread starter):
Just in, Egyptair is buying 12 737-800s, did not see this one coming. Way to go Boeing!

Wow, this is a surprise. Egyptair was one of the "harsh users" of the V2500. why? Like Saudi, the sand in Egypt is chemically reactive with nickel. Thus the V2500's on the Egyptair A319's were not living an easy life. However, last I heard the V2500 took it "a little" better than the CFM-56. But, a couple of extra bucks per takeoff for mx is nothing compared to the savings available through adroit negotiation...

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 39):

Should we take it as a quiet admission that MS990 WAS indeed a deliberate act of the pilot???

I saw the engine logs from the flight recorder. The pilot was trying to correct the situation, the copilot was making it worse. Yes, it was a deliberate act. (Pratt built a case against an "engine failure" lawsuit as an engine fell off at 0.03 Mach past redline.) Either that, or I don't know enough to know you don't ADD fuel when the airframe is at its redline mach number and you certainly also don't command the nose down at that time. Or when the airframe is stalling why would you issue a command to kill the engine from the right seat? There was one hell of a roller coaster ride recorded in the logs. I don't care what the official press says, the engine logs told a very unambiguous story.

But this is one individual. Egypt/US negotiations have matured over the years. Let's try to keep the politics down.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 34):
The B 738 with winglets is a better aircraft than the A 320 on 4-6 hour flights and that was the crucial factor why Air India Express chose it over the A 320s when they ordered 15 of the type.

Winglets do make a dramatic improvement. While I would be surprised if they weren't ordered... I would love to see a link confirming that winglets were added.

One question: is airbus considering altering the wingtip treatments on the A320? The reality of aerospace is that the vendors are always having to improve their products to keep getting new customers. Is Airbus willing to put the money down to make the A320 enough better to go back to stealing 737 sales? Boeing air partners pulled a coup with how well their winglet design works. I figure its something like the pw4062 which is on its 4th generation fan design to get a little more fuel economy. (Or the CFM-56... How many different fans has that seen?) In general there needs to be an improvement package offered every 7 years to keep an airframe selling. (Ok, the 773ER/772LR is an extreme example, but that's the idea. Improve the airframe to keep it on the market.)

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
777ER
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 11:20 am

Way to go Boeing and Egypt Air  Smile. When will Airbus start crying foul?
 
trent900
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 6:32 pm

Hi all,

Has everyone forgotten the weaker dollar??  dollarsign  Because the competing aircraft are so evenly matched of course the airlines are going to go for the cheaper option. One reason why B's had a good run so far.

D.
 
DOC
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 7:32 pm

How many planes have they sold so far in 2004
 
whitehatter
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sat May 28, 2005 8:30 pm

Boeing are also able to offer better delivery slots at the moment due to extra capacity being made available on the 737 lines. That's a major factor. Airbus has a substantial backlog (as does Boeing) but Boeing is increasing production rates.

So Boeing can offer their product in a realistic timeframe, whereas previously their schedules were pretty much sold out.

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 46):
Has everyone forgotten the weaker dollar??

Aircraft are sold in dollars. Airlines also cost the deal longterm, so currency fluctuations aren't that much of a factor. It isn't a case of Boeing products appearing cheaper at the moment more than Airbus receiving less in Euros on contracts negotiated at a stronger dollar rate (if that makes sense!) and possibly having to spike their prices upward to compensate if the exchange rate settles longterm.

Boeing will also take a hit on imported goods such as engine components and other assemblies. The current dollar imbalance is doing nobody any good.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
trent900
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sun May 29, 2005 5:26 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 48):
Aircraft are sold in dollars.

Ok, I see now. But I'm sure Airbus went over to Euros a few years back. Or do they deal in both currencies??

If this is the case, this was an illogical choice of aircraft.

D.

[Edited 2005-05-29 10:28:41]
 
777ER
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sun May 29, 2005 5:30 pm

Boeing are also able to offer better delivery slots at the moment due to extra capacity being made available on the 737 lines. That's a major factor. Airbus has a substantial backlog (as does Boeing) but Boeing is increasing production rates.

So Boeing can offer their product in a realistic timeframe, whereas previously their schedules were pretty much sold out.
Hasn't Airbus also increased production on their A320 line.

Has Boeing opened up a second B737 production facility or have I got my wires crossed?
 
N1120A
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sun May 29, 2005 6:06 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Egyptair was more or less on a way to a Airbus-only fleet.

I guess those 777s are now built in TLS

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):
month ago i still thought they would sell theire 777's in favour of more A330's/A320's

why in the world would they do that?

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 10):
I could see them as pretty strong 739X candidtaes now, though I believe they also have some A321s so that could be messy.

Except that the 739X will outperform the A321 in everyway

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 23):
There is no airport in Turkey (and even in Egypt) where the A321 would not be able to do to what a B738 would do.

That is completely untrue, especially with the A321/738 comparison. The 738 has much greater range, performance and lower fuel burn. Even the 739 has greater range than the A321-200

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 33):
or just a big mistake by MS's management !

Ok, getting a plane with longer legs and better hot field performance for an airline in the MIDDLE OF THE DESERT is a mistake?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Udo
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sun May 29, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 51):
why in the world would they do that?

There were indeed reports some time ago which suggested Egypt Air were thinking about standardizing on A332/342. One reason mentioned was the B777's large capacity.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 51):
Except that the 739X will outperform the A321 in everyway

Except for cargo capability. And getting rid of all B737s and standardizing on existing A320/A321 would still be an advantage - but it doesn't make sense to operate B737s and A32X. After the B738 order I wouldn't be surprised to see the Airbus narrowbodies go.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sun May 29, 2005 7:29 pm

Where is our Egyptian specialist Horus  Wink I personally prefer wingletted 737s especially when the airline is a LCC !!! It's not the case of Egyptair anyway, but the workhorse of Boeing will offer more flexibility for the airline needs...
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Sun May 29, 2005 7:40 pm

I have just had to remove a bunch of off topic posts. If you want to discuss the merits of Turkey joining the EU (what that has to do with EgyptAir buying 737s, I don't know!), please do so in the Non-Aviation forum.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
FlySSC
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Tue May 31, 2005 7:48 pm

N11201 . Reply 33 :

This is completely untrue especially with the A321/738 comparison.
The 738 has a much greater range, performance and lower fuel burn.
Even the B739 has greater range than the A321.



 no   no   no 

A321
Range with 186 PAX and reserves

-100 : 4352km (2350nm)with V-2530s, 4260km (2300nm) with CFM-56s

-200 : 4907km (2650nm)

B737-800

Standard range with 162 PAX and reserves : 3585km (1990nm)

B737-900

Standard range with 177 PAX and reserves : 3815km (2060nm)

Only the High Gross Weight version of the B739 has a 5083km range (which is not than much than the A321-200, and with 11 PAX less).
The High Gross Weight version of the B738 has indeed a range of 5445km but with 26 PAX less than the A321.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Tue May 31, 2005 9:25 pm

B737-900

Standard range with 177 PAX and reserves : 3815km (2060nm


let me remind you that this is the current 900, wich isn't allowed to take more people because of the lack of Emergency exits..... the new 900X will be able to carry well over the 200 people...
 
FlySSC
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RE: Egyptair To Buy 12 737-800s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:45 am

... the new 900X will be able to carry well over the 200 people ...

Maybe ... but for the moment, the new -900X is not yet on the market so I think it is more appropriate to compare what is available on the market... moreover, Egyptair's deal si about B738 against the A321, not B739.