User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:27 am

Aviation Letter reports that the first A320 has been scrapped (excluding any aircraft written off in accidents).

Fleet #028 was delivered new to Cyprus Airways in May 1989 and recently removed from service.

This scrapping seems premature to me, if it truly is based on aircraft age or use.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:30 am

Discussed a few weeks ago, it went to a specialist breaker in Florida.

Aircraft get broken all the time before they might be considered to be life expired. This frame may have been due a D check, and its parts value exceeds the combined cost of the D check and its value plus taxation benefits for the owner. It was also IAE engined.

After all a 757 was broken in the same location recently. Aftermarket parts is a big business.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
yul332LX
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:15 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:35 am

Hey Neil,

The report didn't state why the aircraft was scrapped? 'cos I have seen a couple of recent reports mentioning that the cargo conversion program of the A320 could not be launched yet as A320s available for conversion are... inexistent.

Strange...
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 1):
This frame may have been due a D check, and its parts value exceeds the combined cost of the D check and its value plus taxation benefits for the owner. It was also IAE engined.

Given the potential likelihood that this 320 could have easily seen 10 more years of revenue service, if not even more, it still seems premature to me. 10 years of revenue service will easily cover the amortization of more than 1 D check.

Cyprus operated the 320 on long-ish routes to Northern Europe so the cycles on the 320 should not be unduly high. Perhaps corrosion was a factor.

Nonetheless, it is interesting to see the first 320 scrapped. Meanwhile, the NW D93 fleet soldiers on.  Smile
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:43 am

There are no A320 aircraft other than that one anywhere in the breakers yards. If it comes up, at the right price, then it's going to be just like a car to part out.

secondhand certified original parts will be snapped up by other operators, just like specialist BMW breakers hunt down and part out those cars at much less than a dealer would charge. It's basic economics.

D checks can cost a lot of money as well, so when you do the sums that aircraft could have been a poor deal for placing with a new operator.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 3):
Nonetheless, it is interesting to see the first 320 scrapped. Meanwhile, the NW D93 fleet soldiers on.

They had plenty of life-extension work and investment, so it's the other side of the coin. CY's beast was writtten off the balance sheets, NW decided to go the other path.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:45 am

Quite strange, and sad, to see this aircraft scrapped.

5B-DAT was msn28, first flight on Dec.29th 1988, delivered to Cyprus airways on May 19th 1989.

The 24 previous a/c in the production list, are all active with various airlines ...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Balazs Pinter

 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 2):
Hey Neil,

The report didn't state why the aircraft was scrapped?

No reason given Eric.

The reason can't be cycles, and I doubt it's total hours. I wonder if corrosion (salty sea air at Larnaca) is a factor?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:46 am

Time flies!

The decision to part out an airliner is purely a financial analysis - its likely that this airframe had a lot of hours and/or many cycles and was due for heavy maintainance. The parts are probably worth more than the airframe as a whole at this point. Also, the possibility of placing the aircraft with another carrier would be considered (it probably did not look promising) and problems/issues with this particular airframe were taken into account.

Some 733/734/757/767/MD80 aircraft have been parted out, so, while sad, other early build A320s may soon face a similar fate.
 
JAM747
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:51 am

Sometimes a aircraft might be pre- maturely scrapped because of sort of toxic or hazardous spillage in the cargo compartment such as mercury. Sometimes these items cause serious corrosion or otherwise effects on the airframe which affects its integrity.
 
jorge1812
Posts: 2911
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:11 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:51 am

Have a look here. Started a similar thread weeks ago.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2050032

Bye, Georg.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 3:55 am

I remember this being discussed at some other point after someone spotted the aircraft outside the scrapper's facility.

I think the final conclusion was that the plane had suffered some kind of irrepairable corrosion, or at least the cost was too great in light of the spare parts market.
 
trintocan
Posts: 2725
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 7:51 am

As stated in the linked thread, 5B-DAT was sold by CY, which has been in a rough financial state of late. There was no worry about corrosion, cycles etc. with this plane but CY was trying to sell it and the scrappers were the only takers. CY, remember, has recently ditched its Greek subsidiary Hellas Jet so for them to take such drastic actions implies a grave state of affairs.

It is still very sad though, she has gone to aviation heaven...

 Sad

TrintoCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:32 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 11:49 pm

When I first saw this thread, I was very surprised, but doing the math, I realize that some of the 320's are getting up there in age. Boy does the time go by fast! Seems like just yesterday, the 320 was the "NEW" airplane.
 
JHSfan
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:22 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 11:52 pm

According to the debate "Cyprus A320s to be scrapped? on PPRuNe.org the plane was sold for $11.000.000.

Yours in realtime
JHSfan
Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sat May 28, 2005 11:53 pm

15 years is about the designed life span for an Airbus, I guess this is just one of the first to go...Recyclable not retainable is the way airbus builds their machines....they are built and sold cheap enough that its more economical to lease/buy a new one then it is to maintain a 15 year old one.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 12:04 am

Quoting Slawko (Reply 16):
15 years is about the designed life span for an Airbus, I guess this is just one of the first to go.

Yeah, that's probably the reason why no A300Bs are used as freighters and immediately fall apart after being hit by a missile...

Quoting Slawko (Reply 16):
.Recyclable not retainable is the way airbus builds their machines...

Can you provide any FACTS which support that rather ridiculous statement?

Quoting Slawko (Reply 16):
.they are built and sold cheap enough that its more economical to lease/buy a new one then it is to maintain a 15 year old one.

Crap. Masses of Airbuses are beyond 15 years and early scrapping will remain an exception. And no, not every Airbus is sold cheaply just because there have been some good deals in the past. Get real.


Regards
Udo

[Edited 2005-05-28 17:07:47]

[Edited 2005-05-28 17:08:39]

[Edited 2005-05-28 17:20:39]
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 12:18 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Thread starter):
Aviation Letter reports that the first A320 has been scrapped (excluding any aircraft written off in accidents).

 Smile
Thats what I thought too.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3660
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 12:33 am

The main point is that CY needs cash NOW and this lonely IAE-engined aircraft wouldn't be picked up by an airline soon enough, so the scrap/parts option was the cheapest, it is quite expensive to finance the D check and acquisition costs when you don't know yet when exactly you can sell or lease out the aircraft for what amount of money. It might actually have been easier if 10 or 20 IAE-powered A-320s, with similar lay outs and a spare parts package were or came on the market , then a new start up, the freighter converters or a big current A-320 operator would be more likely to pick them up then this lone frame.
Expect the other early A-320s to soldier on for at least 10 more years. I expect Air France, BA and Lufthansa to only start withdrawing their 1980s A-320s after their last 737s are gone first.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 12:35 am

Can you provide any FACTS which support that rather ridiculous statement?

UDO-

I just spent the last 4 months on a project where I was working with mechaics from a major US airline that flies both Boeing and Airbus. EVERYONE there said that Airbus, although a good aircraft are not built to the same standard as Boeing. Where Boeing would use .032 material, Airbus will use .025 material to save weight. Where Boeing would machine are part, Airbus would press it out. Boeing uses Alclad as an anti corrosion material, Airbus does not. Standard repairs in the galley area that are seen on a Boeing at the 15 to 20 year mark are being seen on Airbuses at the 5 year mark. This does not make one any better or worse... just designed for a different market share.

[Edited 2005-05-28 17:38:07]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 12:41 am

Someone I know who deals with aircraft leases has mentioned in the past that CFM56 powered A320 aircraft are actually easier to place with second users than the IAE ones. That would have complicated matters somewhat. Engineering for CFM engines is much more readily available.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 19):
I expect Air France, BA and Lufthansa to only start withdrawing their 1980s A-320s after their last 737s are gone first.

Those BA ones in the G-BUS* series are still going strong, and despite early teething and provisioning problems have been fleet bedrocks. I could only see BA selling them on when the CFM56 has been completely eliminated from the operation, which won't be any time soon.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
gearup
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:23 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 12):
Thank goodness we see some A320 gettin scrapped. This will certainly be the one airliner I won't miss once its retired

I assume that since you made this contribution (although ridiculous) to this thread and this board, that you consider yourself a civil aviation enthusiast. Your post would tend to indicate that you are nothing of the sort. Same holds true of 747727 since he/she agrees with you!!!

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 1:35 am

Airplanes have become like computers and VCRs.....When we "think" they become "too used" we just throw them away and buy a new one...
Silly that, but then I have hard time believing that you would see any present day CRJs or Airbuses or even modern Boeings still flying as long as some of the older airlines built back when they were built to last... like 707s DC8s DC9s 727s BAC 111s....etc...

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
KCmike
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:13 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 1:59 am

What ever happened to Braniff's A320 fleet? I remember there were 6 of them or so parked at Goodyear. Last time I checked a checlist of what was parked there they were listed as still being there. Parked in 1990 I believe? That would mean theyve been dormant for some 15 years now. Any further details?
Cleared for the option...
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:01 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 19):
It might actually have been easier if 10 or 20 IAE-powered A-320s, with similar lay outs and a spare parts package were or came on the market , then a new start up, the freighter converters or a big current A-320 operator would be more likely to pick them up then this lone frame.

This makes perfect sense. This lone 320 though was one of 4 of similar vintage with Cyprus. Are the remaining 3 still in service with Cyprus, or somehow able to avoid scrapping?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:02 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
I just spent the last 4 months on a project where I was working with mechaics from a major US airline that flies both Boeing and Airbus. EVERYONE there said that Airbus, although a good aircraft are not built to the same standard as Boeing. Where Boeing would use .032 material, Airbus will use .025 material to save weight. Where Boeing would machine are part, Airbus would press it out. Boeing uses Alclad as an anti corrosion material, Airbus does not. Standard repairs in the galley area that are seen on a Boeing at the 15 to 20 year mark are being seen on Airbuses at the 5 year mark. This does not make one any better or worse... just designed for a different market share.

So you have come in to this thread, made a completely ridiculous set of assertions which you can't back up in fact or with references, and tried to start A versus B into the bargain.

Sorry, you just failed cheerleading 101.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:03 am

KCMIke,

those A320s that Braniff flew for the short time before going TU, went to America West...I belive that they are stillin AWA operations to this day...

Cheers, Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:04 am

Non wingletted A320s of AF and BA should be scrapped first  Wink
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting KCMike (Reply 24):
What ever happened to Braniff's A320 fleet? I remember there were 6 of them or so parked at Goodyear. Last time I checked a checlist of what was parked there they were listed as still being there. Parked in 1990 I believe? That would mean theyve been dormant for some 15 years now. Any further details?

I think that the Braniff A320 fleet (which was originally part of an order intended for Pan Am) ended up with America West.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:08 am

What ever happened to Braniff's A320 fleet?

Looks like they didn't travel too far and ended up with America West...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Richard Covington

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
bennett123
Posts: 7424
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:09 am

Braniff A320 went into storage in 12/1989 and went to American West Airlines 09/1990.

They are now N620AW to N622AW, N624AW and N626AW.
 
trident2e
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:38 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:32 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
I just spent the last 4 months on a project where I was working with mechaics from a major US airline that flies both Boeing and Airbus. EVERYONE there said that Airbus, although a good aircraft are not built to the same standard as Boeing.

Now, how did I know that was posted by an American?
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:38 am

Now, how did I know that was posted by an American?

.......and how did I know what I said would be taken out of content and the WHOLE statement not quoted..!!!!!

This does not make one any better or worse... just designed for a different market share.

How is this starting an A -v- B...? I stated a TRUTH.. Both are good products designed differently for a different market share.

So you have come in to this thread, made a completely ridiculous set of assertions which you can't back up in fact or with references

Whitehatter....YOU Disprove me..!! I was THERE, I SAW with my own eyes, I READ the repair schemes. What I'm stating is indeed FACT. YOU are the one trying to make this an A -v- B. I'm just stating that both are fine products designed differently for a different market.

[Edited 2005-05-28 19:49:09]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 2:44 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
Can you provide any FACTS which support that rather ridiculous statement?

UDO-

I just spent the last 4 months on a project where I was working with mechaics from a major US airline that flies both Boeing and Airbus. EVERYONE there said that Airbus, although a good aircraft are not built to the same standard as Boeing. Where Boeing would use .032 material, Airbus will use .025 material to save weight. Where Boeing would machine are part, Airbus would press it out. Boeing uses Alclad as an anti corrosion material, Airbus does not. Standard repairs in the galley area that are seen on a Boeing at the 15 to 20 year mark are being seen on Airbuses at the 5 year mark. This does not make one any better or worse... just designed for a different market share.

[Edited 2005-05-28 17:38:07]

I dont agree with this controversial statement. Its simply unfair (and this coming from a Boeing supporter!) - Boeing simply has a longer history than Airbus and Boeing was turning out 707s and 727s in the 1960s and 1970s when Airbus was nothing more than a dream. The decision to part out the subject Cyprus A320 was a financial calcualtion....several 733s and 734s built in the late 1980s have also been parted out for the same reasons - the aircraft was worth more as parts than as a whole.

Within the airline industry, Douglas aircraft have the reputation for being the most durable and were considered tough enough to fly forever with the correct technical support - proof? There are still many DC8 cargo aircraft around, not to mention NW and the DC9!
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 12):
Thank goodness we see some A320 gettin scrapped. This will certainly be the one airliner I won't miss once its retired

Certain posters wouldn't be missed either...  Silly

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
EVERYONE there said that Airbus, although a good aircraft are not built to the same standard as Boeing.

Everyone? You mean everyone you talked to, right? Actually it's irrelevant what some mechanics of one airline say - I would rather trust official reports based on opinions of different airlines' mechanics. Or I would trust mechanics of companies like LH Technik which maintain aircraft of countless of customers.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
Where Boeing would use .032 material, Airbus will use .025 material to save weight.

Which means about close to nothing.  Yeah sure

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
Boeing uses Alclad as an anti corrosion material, Airbus does not.

Which hasn't yet grounded all these old A300 freighters apparently...  melting 

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
Standard repairs in the galley area that are seen on a Boeing at the 15 to 20 year mark are being seen on Airbuses at the 5 year mark.

If standard repairs on Airbus aircraft involved more frequent and more expensive maintenance procedures you wouldn't see so many of them flying around today...  yawn 

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
This does not make one any better or worse... just designed for a different market share.

Somehow I don't get what exactly you want to say...DIFFERENT market share? Don't B737NG and A320 or A330/A340 and B777 COMPETE for market share?  Confused

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 33):
I stated a TRUTH

No, it's what YOU call the truth.  Wink

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 33):
I was THERE, I SAW with my own eyes, I READ the repair schemes. What I'm stating is indeed FACT.

Some people also swear they have seen aliens...  Embarrassment

You should stop generalising just because you heard an opinion from one source.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 33):
I'm just stating that both are fine products designed differently for a different market.

Whatever that means...  crazy 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 3:59 am

What I find to be the most enlightening part of this is.. by reading the profile of others making statements, I'm the only one that actually has seen these aircraft in maintenance and have first hand knowledge.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Okie
Posts: 3528
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 4:52 am

I had a discussion with a Mechanic who worked for an all Boeing fleet just this last week and his opinion was that the Airbus was a disposable aircraft.

I have heard this comment before from MX from Boeing operators, I have no opinion myself. Maybe it is just not wanting to learn new ways of doing things.

There is one fact for sure. The desert is not full of the 320 series which that alone pretty much speaks for itself.

Okie
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 11):
It is still very sad though, she has gone to aviation heaven...

I wonder how that's like  tongue 

I passed by OPF last week and 5B-DAT it was still there in one piece.. There has been another Airbus there for a month or so, a good-looking A300 in JAS colorscheme/former Airbus house colors (which btw flew in as a Tradewinds flight). Does anyone know if this plane is going ot Tradewinds -since they fly A300s- or going to be parted out?

Another question for you all: Is this early Cyprus A320 any different than the new ones except for maybe some updated electronics?

Quoting Udo (Reply 33):
Certain posters wouldn't be missed either...

If you speak for yourself, you're right on the money  goodvibes  footinmouth 
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 34):
What I find to be the most enlightening part of this is.. by reading the profile of others making statements, I'm the only one that actually has seen these aircraft in maintenance and have first hand knowledge.

What I find interesting is that some people talk about "experiences" with ONE operator and think they can make a general rule out of it...  laughing 

Quoting Okie (Reply 35):
I had a discussion with a Mechanic who worked for an all Boeing fleet just this last week and his opinion was that the Airbus was a disposable aircraft.

All-Boeing guys talking about Airbus which they have never worked on - enough said.  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Okie (Reply 35):
The desert is not full of the 320 series which that alone pretty much speaks for itself.

Excellent observation.  thumbsup 



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 36):
If you speak for yourself, you're right on the money

Incorrect assumption, as usual.  silly 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 5:24 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 3):
onetheless, it is interesting to see the first 320 scrapped. Meanwhile, the NW D93 fleet soldiers on.

A man after my own heart. Anywho yea it is common to get airplanes scraped. We got rid of out tail from a wrecked 152 pretty cheap.


ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 5:25 am

What I find interesting is that some people talk about "experiences" with ONE operator and think they can make a general rule out of it...

Ok, let me re-clearify... What I learned over the last 4 months only backed up what I have learned from several other operators during my travels.

All-Boeing guys talking about Airbus which they have never worked on - enough said..

And my statment came from operators of both aircraft.

The desert is not full of the 320 series which that alone pretty much speaks for itself.

With a fleet average of less then 10 years I sure hope not. Heck the oldest airframe still has a few years to go until it's old enough to drink..!!!

[Edited 2005-05-28 22:29:29]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
glidepath73
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:44 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 5:48 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
Where Boeing would use .032 material, Airbus will use .025 material to save weight. Where Boeing would machine are part, Airbus would press it out. Boeing uses Alclad as an anti corrosion material, Airbus does not. Standard repairs in the galley area that are seen on a Boeing at the 15 to 20 year mark are being seen on Airbuses at the 5 year mark.

And how do you explain the different cases of cracking 757/767 fuselages on a harder landing and the FAA regs. about it? No Airbus plane has regs. so far about possible fuselage crackings when the pilot brings the nose gear down a bit faster then usual.

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 6:07 am

Can you give me a link or an FAR section to these special Boeing hard landing regulations...??? Every single commercial aircraft has a requirements for a hard landing inspection.

No Airbus plane has regs. so far about possible fuselage crackings

Yea, just don't deflect the rudder too hard or the whole tail might come off....
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 6:13 am

Wow....this is quite amazing, no one else would buy it? No LCCs or charters wanting to add the venerable A320 to their fleet? Or get started with one?

Are there more CFM powered A320s than V2500 models?

Anyway, upsetting to hear about this...I obviously missed the first thread on it. I'm pretty sure I've been on that plane, I lived in Cyprus for 2 years and ended up flying CY a lot.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 6:22 am

The finance industry is as keen to fund / lease 10 year old plus B & McD aircraft as it is A. Just like ships and property, condition and maintenance history are important, as well as hours and cycles.

Whitehatter summarised well.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 6:30 am

AirxLiban-

Getting us back to the heart of this thread and away from the A -v- B debate....

The company that holds the lease would have look at several things. The market value to re-lease the aircraft.. or the market value to scrap it. My guess with the A320 fleet soon to reach the 20 year mark the value to scarp is much greater. When an aircraft is scrapped all that is left in the end is the outer shell. I'm sure the leasing company can sell just the avionics group and break even.....with all the rest being clear profit. Wall panels, seats, PSU, overhead bids, galley units, lav units all are coming into demad as the A320 fleet ages. Spare flight controls, spare gear, spare door assy are all in demand by airlines.

Now since this would be the first scrapped airframe the cost for airlines to purchase these parts as spares is greatly reduced over OEM parts and they will be quickly gobbled up.

[Edited 2005-05-28 23:33:16]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
glidepath73
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:44 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 42):
Can you give me a link or an FAR section to these special Boeing hard landing regulations...??? Every single commercial aircraft has a requirements for a hard landing inspection.

There was recently a tread about a other wrinkled fuselage from a Canadian Charter airline 767 which landed to hard somewhere in the caribic. In this tread, somebody posted the FAA regs. about those hard landings. The FAA warnings includes: 757/767/DC-10/MD-11. Couldn't find the posting...

They don't mention any Airbus a/c.

That just what I saw there...
Aviation! That rocks...
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 6:51 am

I saw the same thread and could not find it either....

Let' get back to the heart of this tread.. and I hope I gave a good explanation above in reply 45
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12360
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 7:43 am

Perhaps another factor is the costs of insurance due to age, heavy MX due, the odd engines, in addition to the others noted above.
 
monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: First A320 Scrapped

Sun May 29, 2005 9:55 am

Quoting Ts-ior (Reply 26):
Non wingletted A320s of AF and BA should be scrapped first

I believe you refer to the A320-100's. You would think they might have seen the scrap first but I guess they found a home somewhere.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 31):
I stated a TRUTH

That might be a truth for one airline, but don't believe it to be the case everywhere.

Quoting Udo (Reply 33):
Or I would trust mechanics of companies like LH Technik which maintain aircraft of countless of customers.

This may be more to the point.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 34):
What I find to be the most enlightening part of this is.. by reading the profile of others making statements, I'm the only one that actually has seen these aircraft in maintenance and have first hand knowledge.

Really? You can tell that all from a profile? I certainly don't think thats the case and after all, some peoples profiles do not actually detail their true profession. You have first hand knowledge at a US airline right? Well do you have the same at any other airline in the world? Things are done differently in other places, for example if you come down to Australia and speak to JQ, you'll find that they don't have any issues like that of the airline you mentioned.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...