f9darol
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:29 am

AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 11:02 am

Just noticed here in DEN that an AA aircraft over ran runway 35-R?

Anyone with any other info?
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 1:46 pm

I'm going to take a wild guess here...MD-80?!?!?!  Yeah sure
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FriendlySkies
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 1:49 pm

Where the hell did the pilots touchdown that they overran a TWELVE THOUSAND FOOT runway?!
 
Cactus739
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 1:50 pm

about 5 feet after they should have I'm guessing.........
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 1:51 pm

I'm going to take a wild guess here...MD-80?!?!?!  Yeah sure

Certainly an ironic complaint from somebody who works for a one-type operator himself.
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L-188
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 1:53 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
Where the hell did the pilots touchdown that they overran a TWELVE THOUSAND FOOT runway?!

Good question.

Should have had all of the room in the world to stop.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 1:56 pm

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 4):
Certainly an ironic complaint from somebody who works for a one-type operator himself.

Or maybe I'm referring to the fact that seemingly every AA aircraft that is involved in runway incidents happens to be a MD-80. A few months ago it seemed there was one a week.

[Edited 2005-05-29 06:59:46]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 2:00 pm

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 3):
about 5 feet after they should have I'm guessing.........

Great response.

And in case anyone doesn't know, you will always find something you lost the last place you look for it as well as the last place you left it. Always.
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worldxplorer
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 2:02 pm

AA seems to go from one extreme to another. A couple of months back they took out some approach lights at DEN with an MD-80. It was probably the same guy and he over-compensated out fear of a repeat. Big grin

WorldXplorer
 
iowaman
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 2:11 pm

Jesus it wasn't that long ago a AA MD-80 took the approach lights out at DEN...
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 2:24 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
And in case anyone doesn't know, you will always find something you lost the last place you look for it as well as the last place you left it. Always.

What if someone (besides the loser) moved it?
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 2:26 pm

then you didn't lose (or misplace) it now, did you. someone took it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AR385
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 3:06 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 6):
Or maybe I'm referring to the fact that seemingly every AA aircraft that is involved in runway incidents happens to be a MD-80.

Aren't the MD-80's the workhorse and more numerous aircraft in AA's fleet? I believe they have over 300. Seems kind of logical, if you ask me.
 
Airlinerfreak
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 3:49 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 12):
Aren't the MD-80's the workhorse and more numerous aircraft in AA's fleet? I believe they have over 300. Seems kind of logical, if you ask me.

Yes there are close to 335 of them I believe with more in storage that are soon to be taken out. I believe they have 30 something in storage so that is equal to at least 365 MD-80's. Wow!!
 
pilottim747
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Sun May 29, 2005 4:15 pm

Well...getting this thread back on topic. Here's some info from the Denver Post - Local News Briefs (05/29/05):

No one injured after jet veers off runway

An American Airlines jet carrying 109 people veered off a runway during landing Saturday at Denver International Airport.

There were no injuries, nor was there damage to the MD-80 airplane, airport officials said.

Flight 1125, en route from Dallas, traveled off the runway for a "short distance" and then came to a stop, DIA spokesman Chuck Cannon said.

It had not been determined late Saturday why the plane veered off the runway, he said.

There was minimal damage to Runway 35-Right, resulting in a brief shutdown of the runway while the airliner was towed, Cannon said. Airport operations were not interrupted.


pilottim747
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757223
Posts: 67
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 3:31 am

Do you think there is some issue with AA's MD-80 landing procedure? It does seem like a lot of AA MD-80's have been in the news lately.
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mav75
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 3:40 am

Before bashing AA's MD-80 fleet or their landing procedures, did anyone stop to consider that there might have been a mechanical issue with the airplane, such as ahydraulic failure or a nosewheel steering issue? It could be that the crew was skillful enough to avoid any damage or injuries. Let's stop armchair quarterbacking and wait for more information.
 
cbphoto
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 3:56 am

Last I heard in the news over here in MSP was it was blown off the runway due to very high winds...Although I cannot confirm this due to me not being in the Denver area! Anyway if anyone in the Denver area can confirm if it was windy or not????
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saxman66
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 4:19 am

The pilots who took out the approach lights at DEN got their certificates taken by the FAA. The AA MD-80 fleet alone is the 4th largest airline in the US by the way. I'll ask my old boss about this one. I use to report all the incidents AA had to the fleet captains.

Chris
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lpmartineau
Posts: 11
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 5:23 am

instead of bashing the airline, procedures or aiprlaines I would just like to say I am glad there where no injuries!

Luc
 
nyskymasters
Posts: 143
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Saxman66 (Reply 18):
The pilots who took out the approach lights at DEN got their certificates taken by the FAA. The AA MD-80 fleet alone is the 4th largest airline in the US by the way. I'll ask my old boss about this one. I use to report all the incidents AA had to the fleet captains.

Out of curiosity, where did you get the information that both pilots lost their certificates. I personally don't have any information one way or the other about this. However, I find that hard to believe since AA was the first airline to put an ASAP program into place. I would bet that they both had to be put through additional training and a checkride before being put back on the line. But that is my guess. Any additional info would be appreciated.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 5:55 am

Does anyone know if the plane possibly lost hydralic pressure and could not stop or steer? I won't rush to judgement until I see the report by the FAA.
 
lax20531
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 8:53 am

Quoting Mav75 (Reply 16):
Before bashing AA's MD-80 fleet or their landing procedures, did anyone stop to consider that there might have been a mechanical issue with the airplane, such as ahydraulic failure or a nosewheel steering issue?

Good thing the a/c wasn't landing on a short runway then, like BUR. I flew DL's 752 into BUR .. now that's a fast stop!
 
cpsarras
Posts: 62
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 9:00 am

Recently there was an NWA DC-9 that lost hydraulic pressure and lost all nose wheel turning capabilities and hit an A-319:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/841968/L/

This could be similar failure, and if it was, it's a good thing the pilots managed to keep it straight and nobody was hurt.

Christos
- To Fly Is To Be Free -
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 9:25 am

As of Dec 31, AA had 354 operating MD-80s, of which 17 were in temporary storage. There are also 9 non-operating MD-80s hanging with 4 Fokker100s and 15 762s in the desert somewhere. The 354 MD-80s comprise nearly half of the AA fleet. The next likely plane to have incidents of the AA fleet is the 757, as they have 143, all in service.

So yes, if you hear about a problem at AA, it will likely be an MD-80, and considering the size of that fleet, there are no more or no less problems than any other airline, most likely.

PS - The 354 MD-80s are more than the entire mainline fleet of CO airlines, at 349 planes Year End 2004, with only 2 MD-80s, since retired.     

[Edited 2005-05-30 02:43:25]
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StevenUhl777
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 10:48 am

So it veered off the runway, but it didn't overrun it, correct? I think that's an important distinction to make here...
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 11:23 am

Any chance there was outbound traffic either taking off or crossing the RW or possibly slow traffic landing ahead of them.

I flew into SEA three weeks ago on a WN flight. I'm guessing we were within 1/2 mile of touchdown and then the thrusters engaged. ATC took us up and around puget sound again because of slow traffic ahead of us.  eyepopping 
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Silver1SWA
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 2:42 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
So yes, if you hear about a problem at AA, it will likely be an MD-80, and considering the size of that fleet, there are no more or no less problems than any other airline, most likely.

Hmm...well I don't know, but I don't hear about WN 737s (and there is a fleet of over 400) over-running runways, or hitting approach lights etc. multiple times in a matter of months. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a WN employee. Yes incidents do occur at WN such as emergencies, or aircraft damage by ground ops etc. just like at every airline. But regardless that any incident AA has would statistically be an MD-80, they are still having a lot of these similar incidents period!

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 21):
Does anyone know if the plane possibly lost hydralic pressure and could not stop or steer? I won't rush to judgement until I see the report by the FAA.

Sure, that's possible. But again, these things are happening a lot to AA and the MD-80. Whether by some problem with AAs procedures, or a system malfunction...or even coincidence, there has been a string of AA incidents involving the MD-80 all taking place on runways during landing. THAT is why I entered this topic with the attitude I had.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 2:55 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 27):
THAT is why I entered this topic with the attitude I had.

and that's why i enter every airline ticket purchase with the attitude I have - to never fly Sh*twest Smile
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Silver1SWA
Crew
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 5:24 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 28):
and that's why i enter every airline ticket purchase with the attitude I have - to never fly Sh*twest

Fair enough I suppose. I would, however, like to stress that I have nothing against AA or the MD-80. I just find it amazing that one aircraft type, and the same airline can have so many incidents in a rather short period of time. Anyone catch that there was another AA MD-80 that made an emergency at SFO last night? This one was due to a hydraulic failure apparently. But yeah, there's a point where you just have to stop and scratch your head...

[Edited 2005-05-30 10:30:27]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
bennett123
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 5:40 pm

Is DEN unusually narrow, what about crosswinds is DEN or the MD80 particularly prone.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Mon May 30, 2005 11:01 pm

Nope, not narrow . . .

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KDEN

And I'll make a guess that we see a lot of AA MD80s in various incidents because of the law of averages . . . as point out in reply 24 . . .

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
As of Dec 31, AA had 354 operating MD-80s, of which 17 were in temporary storage

Seems logical . . .
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Tue May 31, 2005 4:58 am

In that DEN is the mile high city, if the Pena airport is a mile high, I seem to recall the Stapleton airport was. Could the human factor somehow of failed to compensate for any increase in elevation even if there is any chance of something like that happening.

I wouldn't think technology would allow for elevation errors unless if was a IFR approach.  airplane   airplane 
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pilottim747
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Tue May 31, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 17):
Last I heard in the news over here in MSP was it was blown off the runway due to very high winds...Although I cannot confirm this due to me not being in the Denver area! Anyway if anyone in the Denver area can confirm if it was windy or not????

KDEN 292153Z 09008KT 10SM OVC024 12/06 A3006 RMK AO2 RAE03 SLP142 P0000 T01170056
KDEN 292253Z 13007KT 10SM OVC024 12/06 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP137 T01170061

pilottim747
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galapagapop
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 31):
Seems logical . . .

Not to mention that with the bases AA has their MD-80's at they don't do flights more than 3 hours so more flights by and MD-80 than a 757 so the odds just increase...

I'm curious as to what happended...
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: AA Off Runway In DEN

Tue May 31, 2005 2:49 pm

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 34):
Not to mention that with the bases AA has their MD-80's at they don't do flights more than 3 hours so more flights by and MD-80 than a 757 so the odds just increase...

You guys are stuck within the context of AA. Alright, I think we have a good enough understanding why MD-80s are the probable aircraft when AA has an incident. Still...a lot of them are having problems. Think from a broader perspective such as commercial aviation in the US. A good number of the runway incidents I know of in the past few months have been AA MD-80s. Have I made my point yet? Because the point has been made that AA problems will statistically be MD-80s.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.