MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Sun May 29, 2005 8:37 pm

I was talking to one of our f/a's yesterday and she was telling me how she used to work for TW and worked primarily on the L10's. She told me a story of how they were landing at JFK after a red eye from LAS and the copilot landed the aircraft on its tail, totally missing the main landing gear. She said it nearly destroyed the rear lavs, buckled the fuselage, and caused her to have ruptured disks in her back. She said the plane was fixed months later but the flight crew was fired. Interesting eh? She said they had a last minute runway change at Kennedy and the tower advised them to go around but the copilot said something to the effect of "Oh I can make it." I'm not sure what year this took place. Any idea?

She also told me how the L10 was her favorite aircraft of all time. Man I never wanted to be a f/a but working in the lower level galley on the Tristars sure sounded like a lot of fun!
 
rampkontroler
Posts: 694
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:54 am

RE: TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Sun May 29, 2005 10:14 pm

Hi There,

It sounds like your friend may have been exaggerating a bit, or confusing different stories. It happens over time...I've done it! But to hopefully help you out, I searched the NTSB database for any incidents that may have met the criteria of her story, and this is the best I can come up with. It doesn't mention anything about a tailstrike, but it probably was a bit of a rough ride...if she had compressed discs, she may have qualified as the "serious" injury. One more thing that makes me think this may have been the event, is the fact that she mentions the co-pilot, and the statement, "Oh, I can make it." According to the report, the first officer said "You got it."

No other TW incidents involving TriStars comes close, as far as I can tell. Hope this helps you out, and thanks for giving me something to do on a very slow AM here in CLE!!

If you want to check yourself, after the report is the link to all NTSB TriStar incidents:


NTSB Identification: DCA92MA044 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 46435.
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of TRANS WORLD AIRLINES
Accident occurred Thursday, July 30, 1992 in JAMAICA, NY
Probable Cause Approval Date: 12/9/1993
Aircraft: LOCKHEED L-1011-385-1, registration: N11002
Injuries: 1 Serious, 9 Minor, 282 Uninjured.
IMMEDIATELY AFTER LIFTOFF THE STICK SHAKER ACTIVATED, AND THE FIRST OFFICER, WHO WAS MAKING THE TAKEOFF, SAID 'YOU GOT IT.' THE CAPTAIN TOOK CONTROL, CLOSED THE THRUST LEVERS, AND LANDED. HE APPLIED FULL REVERSE THRUST AND MAXIMUM BRAKING, AND TURNED THE AIRPLANE OFF THE RUNWAY TO AVOID A BARRIER AT THE END. A SYSTEM DESIGN DEFICIENCY PERMITTED A MALFUNCTIONING AOA SENSOR TO CAUSE A FALSE STALL WARNING. THE SENSOR HAD EXPERIENCED 9 PREVIOUS MALFUNCTIONS, AND WAS INSPECTED AND RETURNED TO SERVICE WITHOUT A DETERMINATION ON THE REASON FOR THE INTERMITTENT MALFUNCTION. THE FIRST OFFICER HAD INCORRECTLY PERCEIVED THAT THE AIRPLANE WAS STALLING AND GAVE CONTROL TO THE CAPTAIN WITHOUT PROPER COORDINATION OF THE TRANSFER OF CONTROL.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

DESIGN DEFICIENCIES IN THE STALL WARNING SYSTEM THAT PERMITTED A DEFECT TO GO UNDETECTED, THE FAILURE OF TWA'S MAINTENANCE PROGRAM TO CORRECT A REPETITIVE MALFUNCTION OF THE STALL WARNING SYSTEM, AND INADEQUATE CREW COORDINATION BETWEEN THE CAPTAIN AND FIRST OFFICER THAT RESULTED IN THEIR INAPPROPRIATE RESPONSE TO A FALSE STALL WARNING. (NTSB REPORT AAR-93/04)


NTSB link:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.a...%27%27%2C+%27%27%2C+%27l%2D1011%27
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Mon May 30, 2005 2:29 am

Not the same event the first poster is referring to. I'll dig around and
see what I can find, but this incident involved a botched autoland
that resulted in a tail strike.
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Mon May 30, 2005 2:44 am

 
rampkontroler
Posts: 694
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:54 am

RE: TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Mon May 30, 2005 3:00 am

Thanks CWA Flyer...that would definately be the one he's describing. How the heck did you find that? Ah...nevermind, it was there all along in the link I provided. It would probably help if I read the reports a little more thoroughly!  embarrassed  Thanks for setting both of us straight!
 
ATAflyer
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:10 pm

RE: TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Mon May 30, 2005 3:54 am

Hi MSYtristar,
The lower galley on the L-1011's was/is my favorite part of working that aircraft...on long-haul flights the lower galley windows on each side (one over the sink on the left and one at the service door on the right) yield some spectacular views that nobody else can quite see...due to looking more downwards than your normal passenger windows.
It is a good aircraft, more advanced from the very beginning than the DC-10, it's main rival.
Sorry to be off-topic a bit, just wanted to mention this.
Thanks & keep 'em flying.
A better way to fly
 
N905TW
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:53 am

RE: TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Mon May 30, 2005 4:30 am

Quote:
She told me a story of how they were landing at JFK after a red eye from LAS and the copilot landed the aircraft on its tail, totally missing the main landing gear. She said it nearly destroyed the rear lavs, buckled the fuselage, and caused her to have ruptured disks in her back. She said the plane was fixed months later but the flight crew was fired.

Ah yes, good old 31031. Operating into JFK as Flight 778 from LAS. She did land on her tail, and cracked the rear pressure bulkhead, among other things. As far as I was told, it was at first written up as a hard landing - the plane taxiied normally to the gate. As for the Flight Crew, I remember hearing rumors that the F/E was the only one actually fired, because she was still on new hire probation - not sure of the details there though.

The plane sat behind Hangar 12 at JFK for over a year as I recall, as the FAA and TWA argued over whether it was going to be an "accident" or "incident". The plane never re-entered revenue service, she was eventually patched up somewhat and ferried to Kingman, Arizona (IGM) for storage and was later scrapped in 2001.

Sure do miss those 1011s !
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Mon May 30, 2005 5:49 am

I had to do the search by equipment type instead of airline. I
remember reading an article (might have been this one from
the NTSB site) several years ago. I seem to recall one in STL
around 1985 or so. A friend of mine who's dad was a 1011
captain for TWA told me the story.
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2022
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: TWA L1011 Tail Landing At JFK

Mon May 30, 2005 10:22 am

Why is there no mention of an F/A injury in any of the reports?

Rampkontroler, btw, that takeoff accident at JFK in 1992 is quite famous. I sat next to a woman on a flight a couple of years ago who had been on that plane. She said some poor guy had the only copy of a novel he had just finished writing in the overhead compartment, had to leave it there when the plane was evacutated, and lost it completely... Back up your files!
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!

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