Eirules
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Sun May 29, 2005 11:17 pm

After bidding for the government backed Irish provincial routes, both FR and BD have lost out. The majority of the routes have been won my Aer Arran who previously operated the routes. The only one they lost out on was Knock-DUB whick will be operated by Loganair (BA ??) Aer Arran reportedly agreeded to take a 3million euro subsidy cut just to undercut FR. But now it seems FR will launch its own DUB-ORK flights. Any thoughts?
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wunala
Posts: 898
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:17 am

RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Sun May 29, 2005 11:41 pm

BA is operating the route. From the websire:-

New route from Knock to Dublin

Summary
British Airways Franchise partner, Loganair, have announced they will start to operate services between Knock and Dublin, effective 22 July 2005.

More information
These flights are open for sale now, for travel from 22 July 2005.
 
greenjet
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 12:14 am

Loganair also won Sligo and Donegal but declined it in the end after winning Derry and Knock.
 
trident2e
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 12:43 am

Why are these flights being subsidised when the Irish government is spending millions of Euros upgrading the inter-city road infrastructure? It's like the British government subsidising flights from MAN to BHX.
 
Eirules
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 12:46 am

Because Sligo and Donegal are a bit different in terms of population compared to Birmingham and Manchester!
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
greenjet
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 2:23 am

Why are these flights being subsidised when the Irish government is spending millions of Euros upgrading the inter-city road infrastructure? It's like the British government subsidising flights from MAN to BHX.

Unfortunately the inter-city road infrastructure is still very poor. Sligo-Dublin is 3 hours at best by car. Donegal-Dublin is more than 4 hours by car. The investment in roads is likely to slow down too as the EU development funds Ireland has thrived on in recent years are now heading east. Manchester-Brimingham also has pretty decent rail links whereas in Ireland the railways are terrible.
 
EI321
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 2:39 am

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 5):
Why are these flights being subsidised when the Irish government is spending millions of Euros upgrading the inter-city road infrastructure? It's like the British government subsidising flights from MAN to BHX.

Unfortunately the inter-city road infrastructure is still very poor. Sligo-Dublin is 3 hours at best by car. Donegal-Dublin is more than 4 hours by car. The investment in roads is likely to slow down too as the EU development funds Ireland has thrived on in recent years are now heading east. Manchester-Brimingham also has pretty decent rail links whereas in Ireland the railways are terrible.

Dublin to cork probably does not need a PSO route. The roads and rail are not as bad as a lot of people say they are and are constantly improving.

Donegal has no rail link at all and the roads there are not good, so its quite a journey from dublin unless you go by air.

There is no proper road or rail link between Dublin and Derry.

There is no Motorway or rail link between Dublin and Kerry.

By the way LoganAir will use saab 340s on the routes.

Is there similar PSOs in Scotland or any other european country?

Its hardly surprising that AerArann lost some of the routes. Their tech history is not great and they seem to cancel flights a lot.

[Edited 2005-05-29 19:44:45]
 
greenjet
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 2:58 am

Dublin to cork probably does not need a PSO route. The roads and rail are not as bad as a lot of people say they are and are constantly improving.

Dublin-Cork is not a PSO route anyway. The road and rail links to the likes of Sligo and Kerry are still poor. Yes they are improving all the time but the rate of improvement is going to slow down with a lack of funds while the traffic increases in volume due to the high cost of living in Dublin.

By the way LoganAir will use saab 340s on the routes.

Yes, that is correct. There has been talk of Dash 8s joining the LC fleet though.

Is there similar PSOs in Scotland or any other european country?

Scotland has a large number of PSO routes, all serving the islands. France also has PSO routes between Paris and Corsica I believe. Why the latter exists is necessary though is questionable as there is a large volume of traffic.
 
EI321
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 7):
Dublin-Cork is not a PSO route anyway

I know, I was saying that I think DUB-ORK is ok the way it is, but the others do need PSOs

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 7):
The road and rail links to the likes of Sligo and Kerry are still poor. Yes they are improving all the time but the rate of improvement is going to slow down with a lack of funds while the traffic increases in volume due to the high cost of living in Dublin

Almost all future Motorway projects will be PPPs (public-private partnerships) and wont get EU funds anyway. Dont worry they will be built. The toll's, not on all roads, will be a major dis-incentive for people to commute long distances to Dublin.



Quoting Greenjet (Reply 7):
Scotland has a large number of PSO routes, all serving the islands


I know about the Islands, I should have said: is there any PSOs on mainland Scotland, serving inaccessable areas like Donegal?

[Edited 2005-05-29 20:37:18]
 
diesel1
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 9:11 am

RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting Wunala (Reply 1):
BA is operating the route

No. To be accurate, Loganair is operating the route

Quoting EI321 (Reply 8):
is there any PSOs on mainland Scotland, serving inaccessable areas like Donegal?

Why would their be a PSO route from the UK to Ireland?
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EI321
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 7:30 am

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 9):
Why would their be a PSO route from the UK to Ireland

No, I meant are there PSO routes within Scotland that serve rural scottish areas, with similar geology to places like Donegal.
 
teahan
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 9:05 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 6):
There is no Motorway or rail link between Dublin and Kerry.

If there's no rail link, I wonder what the Tralee - Farranfore - Killarney - [...] - Dublin trains run on?
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EI321
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Mon May 30, 2005 10:11 pm

Quoting Teahan (Reply 11):
If there's no rail link, I wonder what the Tralee - Farranfore - Killarney - [...] - Dublin trains run on?

I thought that was a branch off from the Dublin to Cork line?
 
teahan
Posts: 4992
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Tue May 31, 2005 10:01 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
I thought that was a branch off from the Dublin to Cork line?

Yep a branch at Mallow but we still have two daily direct Kerry - Dublin trains in addition to a number of connecting services.
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7LBAC111
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Tue May 31, 2005 10:07 pm

Erm... what's PSO?

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
MarBergi
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Tue May 31, 2005 10:10 pm

Public Service Order - They are used as incentives for transport operators to operate route that would not otherwise be viable. They are mainly used in rural areas to provide public transport.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BD & FR Lose Out On Irish Regional Routes

Tue May 31, 2005 10:15 pm

Cheers MarBergi.

7LBAC111

.
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.

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