sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Tue Apr 18, 2000 10:13 pm

This forum seems to have very great interest in big aircraft, as we can see at the reactions about the customers for the A3XX. But what about the smaller aircraft. Which airlines are, according to you, the following to order the B717, still having just a few customers, the B757-300, a slow seller until now and the B767-400(ERX), with almost the same problem. What airlines do you think are needing aircraft in this category and do you think they will opt for the Airbus counterpart (if there is one)? And what about the A318, A330-100X and A340-500/-600, which still have to be launched or haven't gained a lot of customers lately?
So what airlines are possible buyers within this and five years for the
A318
A330-100X
A340-500/-600
B717
B757-300
B767-400(ERX)
and how much of them will they buy? Maybe difficult to answer, as none of us is Madama Soleille, but between al these great aviation specialists here, some should have (or think to have) an idea about this, not?
Thanx
sndp
 
Guest

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Tue Apr 18, 2000 10:47 pm

717- last forum about this consensus was, USAirways. (No exclusivity agreement with airbus) 50 orders, 50 options possibly!
AA737-800
 
Guest

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Tue Apr 18, 2000 11:08 pm

Here are a few I know with possible orders:

Britannia: A332 or 764
CSA: 3 764 to replace A310
Lauda Air: A332 or 764
Aeromexico & Mexicana: 717/737 or A318/A320 to replace DC-9, F-100, 727
Midwest Express: 15 firm B717-200 plus 10 options
Spirit Airlines: 8 B717
United Airlines: A332 or 764
Ansett: A332 or 764

Hope this helps.


Rooz
 
Hamlet69
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 12:20 am

Expect both Qantas and Air NZ to look at A340NG or 777NG, with both more than likely going Boeing. I will probably draw some criticism here, but I don't see too many future sales of the A340-500/600. Simply because the market isn't supposed to be that large (500 planes max) and the airlines that would order this plane (previous Airbus widebody operators) already have. Certainly expect follow-up orders from Lufthansa, Swissair, Virgin, but I expect most of the upcoming orders in this category will go to Boeing, simply because the airlines (Thai, ANA, American, Air France) already operate 777s, and an engine switch is more economical than an airframe switch.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
Hamlet69
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 12:24 am

Whoops!  
I forgot to say Cathay. I do expect them to order the new A340. CX is very happy with their Airbus's and is more than likely to continue ordering them.

As far as little aircraft, US Airways, Northwest, and Air Canada are all looking at the A318/717. What they go with is anyone's guess.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 12:26 am

I do believe that the 717 will mostly be ordered by carriers which are first time entries into the jet business, I here recall the Regional Airlines (Spain) 717-200 order, maybe Olympic Aviation, too. I guess Jersey European might be one of it although I suppose a 115-seat version of the ARJX, "ARJX-115 called" (when the ARJ family was launched a 115-seater was offered, the RJ-115) would suit them more.

The A318 is more likely for carriers which already have an A32X fleet, I guess LH, UA, NW and US will order it.

The 767-400 will probably don´t gain much orders. Most of them will come from US carriers, I think Delta and Continental (have already ordered it), maybe TWA once their financial status recovers. Some smaller carriers, VARIG possbily. The A330-200 will get most of these orders, it offers a better performance compared to the B764 and has already gaind a lot of orders. My bets go for LOT, RAM, Tunisair, Britannia, NW, UA and Lauda Air.

The 757-300 is a problem for Boeing. Although I might be a bit too pessimistic I think its the wrong plane at the wrong time. Onyl few carriers (Condor, Arkia, JMC, Icelandair) have ordered a few and no customers are in sight at the moment. The only one I can think about is TWA but see above.

Now to the most interesting point: the A340NG (-500/-600). I think Cathay, Malaysian and Thai will place orders for it, maybe even Korean. Airbus will sell them in package deals with the A3XX I guess. The same what Boeing did with 777 and 747 deals. Just wanted to mention it so that nobody can say Airbus is doing something unfair. I can think about some deals here: United launched the 777 and got some 747-400 very cheap, Malaysian signed a huge 777/744 deal.

My thoughts

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Guest

Britannia/Lauda Air

Wed Apr 19, 2000 1:01 am

Britannia are now very unlikely to order the A330, they are severely trimming longh-haul flying - all Australia, New Zealand and Canada flights have ended permanently, and most Caribbean flights will be stopped.

As for the 767-400ER, it doesn't have the range for Lauda or Britannia, neither has expressed any interest in the 767-400ERX

Lauda operating an all Boeing fleet of 737NG/767/777 won't order the A330 - parent Austrian already operates it - there is no need for both airlines to!
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

Lauda Air/AF

Wed Apr 19, 2000 2:24 am

You mean Austrian might give some of its A332s to Lauda? Quite unlikely I think although it might be possible. Just a few weeks ago Flight International had an article saying that Lauda Air is interested in either 8 A332 or B764. I suppose that they go for Airbus, here the cost saving effects with Austrian should be big enough to do such a move. And to my understanding the 764 has a flightdeck which hasn´t much in common with the 763ER flight deck. Last thing I heard about Lauda that they probably wanted to get rid of their 772ER but as said, it was only a rumour.

I think to say anything about Air France is a bit difficult. The operate a GE90-powered 772 fleet, yes, but they also have a A330/340 and building it still up so I wouldn´t rule out an A340-600 order completly. I THINK they will go for the 777-300ER but Air France has surprised us more then once.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: Britannia/Lauda Air

Wed Apr 19, 2000 2:24 am

I do not quite understand why Lauda woudn't order the A330 because Austrian has already got these planes. It would be fleet commonality within the Austrian Airlines Group. The fact that Lauda operates an all Boeing fleet seems a stronger argument although if the 767-400 doesn't suite them .... Maybe they will order additional 777 or maybe they are waiting for the 777-100X.
sndp
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Britannia/Lauda Air

Wed Apr 19, 2000 2:27 am

If the 777-100X will ever exist....

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
teahan
Posts: 4990
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 2:32 am

Lauda Air want B 767 400IGW's
Bangkok Airways ordered 2 B 717's  

Jeremiah Teahan
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 2:44 am

Can you just give a short describtion of the socalled 767-400IGW? I´ve never heard about it.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Guest

AeroMexico And Mexicana

Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:30 am

Both of them are going to place some orders soon, they need 717 and 737 or A318 and A320 to replace the DC)'s, 727's and F100's.

I think AeroMexico will go Boeing and Mexicana will probably choose Airbus.
And some widebody aircraft might be ordered if MX and AM open new international routes.
 
Guest

RE: AeroMexico And Mexicana

Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:51 am

The next order, or better, leasing announcement will most likely come from TWA: 10 B717 from Pembroke (in addition to the 50 firm orders and 50 purchase options). TWA is probably also one of the next airlines ordering the B757-300. American is also considering it. Hopefully TW places the order first, since the price will almost certainly go up, once AA has "endorsed" the B753.
 
Guest

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:02 am

In regards to 757-300 orders, don't they have a less than desirable turnaround time? It seems it would take forever to get everyone off that aircraft without two boarding bridges. Why not just order a 767? Higher operating costs. But, the less time on the ground, the more flights, which could possibly offset the higher operating costs. I think Boeing made a mistake by introducing the 757-300 before major airlines had seriously endorsed it.
My thoughts,
AA737-800
 
sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico And Mexicana

Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:04 am

Just to summarise what is already been said (or what I remember from it, I have been reading them during the day, not all just a minute ago).
Most importantly there seem to be a lot of rumours out there about what Lauda Air is going to do. According to me, Niki Lauda himself is a great Boeing fan, het likes those airplanes a lot but I also think that Lauda will go to Airbusses, like mothercompany Austrian and partners LH, BM and SAS. But that is just my opinion. I expect them to order A330's but keep 777 and 737's.
Next important thing seems to be the order from TWA and AA for B757-300's, which some expect to come.
Some guessing also with AF which is now indeed building it's fleet around the A330/A340 as they will replace the B767's. But they also have got some 777 so question is with what will they replace their older 747's? Triple sevens or Airbusses?
Still a lot of questions, more comments on this topic are welcome, thank you for all those who have already reacted on my initial message.
sndp
 
Rotate777
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2000 11:06 am

RE: National And The 753

Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:04 am

Expect National Airlines to order some 757-300s. I think they will. They are happy with their 757-200.

Rotate777
 
Guest

Flying-Tiger

Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:15 am

Yes, Sorry you were right - Lauda have expressed an interest in the 767-400ERX, you reminded me of the article in Flight International 

As for Austrian leasing A330s to Lauda - I didn't explain myself well. I meant Lauda won't order the A330 because Austrian already have it, if there is a route ideally suited to the A330, Austrian will fly it - If the 767/777 would be better - Lauda can fly it.
Both airlines will be the most efficient if Austrian is all-Airbus and Lauda is all-Boeing

James
 
Guest

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:51 am

Air France: firm order for 10 A330.
 
F4N
Posts: 507
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2000 11:37 pm

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:57 am

To all: The orders website indicates that UA is to make a decision this year between the 764 or A332. Would not their currently large fleet of 757/767 make UA a logical candidate for the 764? How about AA? Any interest on their part in the 764?

Regards,

F4N
 
Guest

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:00 am

Sorry was wrong. Air France has 8 firm orders and option for another 5 A330.
 
DeltaAir
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

Lauda Will Go Boeing

Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:17 am

1 or 2 of Lauda's newest 767-300s have the 767-400 cockpit and systems imputed into them.

Here is a photo of one:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Craig Murray

 
Hamlet69
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 9:47 am

My thoughts:

Lauda Air will probably order 764s when the 'enhanced version' is available around 2004. Remember, these aircraft have a very similar cockpit to the 777 and 738 already in Lauda's fleet. Add to that that Mr. Lauda himself is rated to fly these aircraft, and you have a pretty good argument for Boeing

As for Air France, I can't say one way or another. What I can tell you is that according to AF's representive in the Everett plant, they are EXTREMELY happy with their 777s. That is why I said earlier that I expect them to continue ordering 777s, while they will probably order more A332s to completely replace the combined 767/A310 (15 aircraft) fleet.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
CV990A
Posts: 1387
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Next B717/B767-400 And 757-300customers

Wed Apr 19, 2000 1:36 pm

Here's my 2 cents:

United- 764
Indian Airlines- A318 (if they can get the $$)
AF- A340NG
JAL- 764
Maybe some 717s going to the few eastern European Airlines still flying Soviet-era equipment...
Kittens Give Morbo Gas