ConcordeBoy
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9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:20 am

...just-in at the orders forum.

Initially will be a lease of two, with more potentially to follow.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
B742
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:26 am

I guess this will mean EK will go for the 777-200LR's!

Will 9W keep their leased 343's then?

I'm guessing for direct services to EWR and YYZ....?

Rob!
 
atmx2000
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:27 am

Are these existing A345's or undelivered A345s still on order?
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
N60659
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:33 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
Initially will be a lease of two, with more potentially to follow.

Any mention of what the timeframe for this lease would be? With three leased A340's and four A330's still to come, it would be interesting to see how this addition would affect 9W's expansion plans.

-N60659
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ORD777
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:46 am

Wasn't there something on here about 9W having future plans to fly nonstop to ORD? It would be great to finally see an A345 here in Chicago.
 
karan69
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:46 am

Exactly when are they due,i doubt they will come before late 2006
 
shawnnyc
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:20 am

Sort of interesting to see EK "help" an Indian carrier start the nonstop flights from India to the US that will really compete with EK's own India-US service (I hope its not because the A345 underperforms).

As far as nonstop flights...BOM-NYC, BOM-ORD and BOM-SFO are the three routes Jet should start nonstop ASAP as those routes have the first, business and premium coach pax to fill the plane right now (they won't even need a regular coach section).

With Indian carriers actually going ahead with nonstop flights, the situation is ironically shifting. Premium pax who avoided Indian carriers should now start flying the nonstops while discount pax will take the one stop through Europe.
All Jet needs is an alliance membership now. We need to be able to earn status as well as points on the trip to India  Smile
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
I guess this will mean EK will go for the 777-200LR's!

I think we may see EK dump their A346HGW order all together. The reason EK even split the order between 773ER and A346 was because the 773ER (as advertised several years ago) offered superior payload and the A346 offered superior range/TO performance. With the subsequent improvements in 773ER performance, this is no longer the case: the A346-HGW has only a slight range advantage.

Convert the 20 A346 into an A350 commitment with an add-on 773ER/772LR would make the most sense and would streamline EKs future fleet.
 
behramjee
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
All Jet needs is an alliance membership now. We need to be able to earn status as well as points on the trip to India

U can get 9W mileage points if u are a KLM/NWA World Perks card holder...which other airline has similar arrangements with 9W?
 
karan69
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting ORD777 (Reply 4):
Wasn't there something on here about 9W having future plans to fly nonstop to ORD? It would be great to finally see an A345 here in Chicago.

That was not 9W but Air Sahara who were in talks with tying up with UA to start a DEL-ORD non-stop.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
Sort of interesting to see EK "help" an Indian carrier start the nonstop flights from India to the US that will really compete with EK's own India-US service (I hope its not because the A345 underperforms).

From which angle does it "help" an indian carrier---i am sure they might be paying a pretty heavy lease,

BTW, does anyone have a Link to that article of the A345 lease.
 
atmx2000
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
Convert the 20 A346 into an A350 commitment with an add-on 773ER/772LR would make the most sense and would streamline EKs future fleet.

Seems like a pyrrhic victory for Airbus if this is comes to pass and was necessary for launching the A350.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
karan69
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 8):
which other airline has similar arrangements with 9W?

British Airways
 
avek00
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
(I hope its not because the A345 underperforms).

They wouldn't be getting rid of the plane unless something better was in the pipeline.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
All Jet needs is an alliance membership now.

Not really - Jet should do just fine on its own provided the USA-India nonstops connect well into its domestic network.
Live life to the fullest.
 
N1120A
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
(I hope its not because the A345 underperforms).

It almost certainly is

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
the A346-HGW has only a slight range advantage.

Actually, last I checked, the A346HGW was going to fall 100nm short of the 773ER
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
gigneil
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:37 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Actually, last I checked, the A346HGW was going to fall 100nm short of the 773ER

Not sure when that was, but the 380t A346s features 20nm more range than the predicted range of the newer 773ERs.

N
 
N79969
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:49 am

Not a glowing endorsement for the A340-500 or 340 series in general if this comes to pass.

On the other hand, it is quite a smart way for Jet Airways to acquire modern, long-haul aircraft.
 
aseem
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:52 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 15):
On the other hand, it is quite a smart way for Jet Airways to acquire modern, long-haul aircraft.

so all their aircrafts will have widely acclaimed seats of SA and EK!!
my  twocents 
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:55 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
but the 380t A346s features 20nm more range

...and who here's willing to bet even $0.05 that it'll actually hit that range estimate?  Silly  Silly
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
COUGARRIDES
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:01 am

Shit! looks like our secret is out! But theres more!
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COUGARRIDES
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:25 am

What an asinine decision no?

I wonder how 9W is going to compete with Air India with these slow, inneficient A340's? The world and concordeboy know that the A340 has never made any money for any of its operators. I wonder how an airline like 9W could make this mistake?
Air India - Indias national shame
 
ikramerica
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:45 am

Those first class suites in the 345 will be installed on the 777LR instead?

It think the 777 now, with A350 replacing them in the future is a good bet.

EK was smart though, because they took the "try them both and see" approach with a whole bunch of models with strong claims but no track record.

I think a lot of carriers were impressed that the 773ER greatly surpasses initial promises. It was to have a shorter range than the 772ER, but ends up with a longer range, with even a longer range possible after continued flying and certification.

It also makes the 772LR seem more attractive, because carriers are willing to believe Boeing when they claim it will perform.

Which means that if the plane doesn't perform, Boeing will lose a lot of cred.

Maybe Boeing is already informing customers quietly that the plane is performing better in early testing, but hiding it until Paris to create PR buzz? I haven't heard much about 772LR testing, even though first flight was weeks earlier than the A380.
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QFA001
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:46 am

Although I've been trying to hint for weeks that the last two EK A340-500s wouldn't wear EK colours, I don't think that this particular deal is yet set-in-stone. Anyhow, it looks as though Airbus is arranging this deal.

If so, then doesn't it make you wonder what Airbus types are on the EK chopping block for when they buy A350s at Paris or Dubai?  Wink
 
airbazar
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:55 am

Quoting COUGARRIDES (Reply 19):
The world and concordeboy know that the A340 has never made any money for any of its operators. I wonder how an airline like 9W could make this mistake?

I know this is either cheap bait or a hugely ignorant comment but there are a few of money making airlines operating the A340. Right of the top of my head, LH and TP.
 
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 am

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 21):

If so, then doesn't it make you wonder what Airbus types are on the EK chopping block for when they buy A350s at Paris or Dubai?

This will make one or the other air shows very interesting. EK has proven to be a very savy negotiator... This will probably be the widebody aircraft deal of the decade.

Quoting COUGARRIDES (Reply 19):
he world and concordeboy know that the A340 has never made any money for any of its operators.

 rotfl  Ok, VA might disagree. But then again, I know Pratt looked at putting the pw8057 onto the 340 and just couldn't make the business case work. (Note: this is with RR having an established position on the airframe.)

Lightsaber
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LAXDESI
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:05 am

From Jet's perspective, it is more important to establish itself in non-stop India/USA sector than to worry about efficiency differences between 777 and A340. Jet would get to fly non-stop much before Air India gets their 772LR. Jet could always get 772LR later if the non-stop flights become popular. A340 will also be useful for India/Australia non-stop flights.
 
atmx2000
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
It think the 777 now, with A350 replacing them in the future is a good bet.

The A350 won't replace the 772LR without a MTOW upgrade.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 22):
I know this is either cheap bait or a hugely ignorant comment but there are a few of money making airlines operating the A340. Right of the top of my head, LH and TP.

OK, I think you are missing the Indian "Leahy"'s sarcasm.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 21):
Anyhow, it looks as though Airbus is arranging this deal.

It seems as if Airbus is working hard to win 9W's long haul business.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:13 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 25):
It seems as if Airbus is working hard to win 9W's long haul business.

If it's true that AI is going Boeing, and nearly all indications point that way, it would sure behoove Airbus to do so... less they pull Japan in India.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 21):

Russ... is that you?  Wink
 
atmx2000
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 26):
it would sure behoove Airbus to do so... less they pull Japan in India.

Well, it seems someone has been working over time since late last year to gather Airbus planes for 9W, including SAA's A343s and some A330s, too I believe. Now they appear to be getting A345s from EK. Wouldn't be surprised if they are softening them up for an A350 order and maybe even an A346 order. It would be a coup for Airbus to win the widebody orders or the largest Indian Boeing 737 operator.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
QFA001
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:49 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 23):
This will make one or the other air shows very interesting. EK has proven to be a very savy negotiator... This will probably be the widebody aircraft deal of the decade.

Well, it's a good deal for EK. If Airbus has 20 A340-600s cancelled, though, I'm not sure what they will get out of a deal besides an A350-900 launch.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 25):
It seems as if Airbus is working hard to win 9W's long haul business.

I'm stealing a friend of mine's thunder when I say this (when he reads this he can know I'm thinking about what he said), but if too many A340-500 airlines dump the airplane in a short period of time, then we could see Boeing providing A340-500s to 9W instead of Airbus.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 26):
Russ... is that you?

Parlay vous anglais?  Wink
 
shawnnyc
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 9):
From which angle does it "help" an indian carrier---i am sure they might be paying a pretty heavy lease,

Well it gives Jet ULR aircraft ASAP. I would describe the India-USA market as a race right now. The doors are open and its anyone's game. Passenger expectations on how to travel to the US will be made now (like do you fly MAA-BOM-JFK or MAA-FRA-JFK. And there are many real differences between the routes not just one stop vs one stop - like do you want to take a red eye and then connect or connect in the evening and then be on the plane continuous). Plus the quicker US and Indian carriers start nonstops, the higher the likelihood the European players expand slower with all the new frequencies they have received. Nonstops will take away premium pax that Euro airlines rely on. Plus why give players like BA, LH, AF time to establish all their new routes.

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):
Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 6):
All Jet needs is an alliance membership now.

Not really - Jet should do just fine on its own provided the USA-India nonstops connect well into its domestic network.

I do think they will do fine but Jet will get higher yielding pax, at least US originating, when they have full integration in an alliances ff program. A trip to India basically gives you ff status. Nonstop flights are meant to attract premium travelers, and US ones will want their UA, AA, DL, etc premium status.
 
atmx2000
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 28):
I'm stealing a friend of mine's thunder when I say this (when he reads this he can know I'm thinking about what he said), but if too many A340-500 airlines dump the airplane in a short period of time, then we could see Boeing providing A340-500s to 9W instead of Airbus.

I thought about that, and actually wasn't one of the scenarios (or maybe that was what EK wanted) that Boeing would take the A345s for a 772LR order. Taking the 772s would make more sense for Boeing I think. I'm sure Boeing would rather provide the 772ERs to 9W. I don't know what they would do with the 772As though.

As for the A346s, as much as it might make sense for EK to get rid of them, I find it hard to believe that Airbus would be willing to give up $3 billion in short term revenue and the bad press it brings. That's would be a strong negative endorsement of the A346.

[Edited 2005-06-01 04:34:56]
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schipholjfk
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 8):

U can get 9W mileage points if u are a KLM/NWA World Perks card holder...which other airline has similar arrangements with 9W?

Only for flights within India. Not going to get a mile if you fly 9W on their international routes.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
QFA001
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:49 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 30):
I thought about that, and actually wasn't one of the scenarios (or maybe that was what EK wanted) that Boeing would take the A345s for a 772LR order. Taking the 772s would make more sense for Boeing I think. I'm sure Boeing would rather provide the 772ERs to 9W. I don't know what they would do with the 772As though.

It makes more sense for Boeing, but does it make more sense for EK? Airbus needs an A350 launch customer. Boeing needs to establish B772LR in its market segment. The way I see it, EK holds all the cards.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 30):
As for the A346s, as much as it might make sense for EK to get rid of them, I find it hard to believe that Airbus would be willing to give up $3 billion in short term revenue and the bad press it brings. That's would be a strong negative endorsement of the A346.

If EK had decided that the A340s weren't working out, anyway, then wouldn't it be better for Airbus to get a Tier 1 A350 operator? Besides, if EK does cancel the A340s it might not show up in Airbus' orderbook until the A350 deliveries begin in several years.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 28):
Parlay vous anglais?

Guess not  Wink

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 28):
If Airbus has 20 A340-600s cancelled, though, I'm not sure what they will get out of a deal besides an A350-900 launch.

Despite losing the launch customer of the -600HGW, Airbus would still come out ahead. The A350 order is rumored to be for as many as 50 aircraft plus options, so your still talking another 30 aircraft (albiet lower priced than A346).

I think the A340 HGWs are in a very tenous position: if EK dumps, there are only a handful of other orders. Whether CX would really take it is questionable IMO, and I think we can rule it out of the QF A346/773ER evaluation... which I persume is still going.
 
jacobin777
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 22):

I know this is either cheap bait or a hugely ignorant comment but there are a few of money making airlines operating the A340. Right of the top of my head, LH and TP.

add SQ, AF, and VS (though the HGK-SYD route isn't doing all that great for the 346 right now)..
"Up the Irons!"
 
atmx2000
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:08 pm

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 32):
It makes more sense for Boeing, but does it make more sense for EK? Airbus needs an A350 launch customer. Boeing needs to establish B772LR in its market segment. The way I see it, EK holds all the cards.

Well, Boeing is selling a few to AC, AI and PIA. It would be nice to get a Tier 1 customer, but they have a few options for that. I think they would be more than happy to just provide a replacement order of 773ERs to EK.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 32):
If EK had decided that the A340s weren't working out, anyway, then wouldn't it be better for Airbus to get a Tier 1 A350 operator? Besides, if EK does cancel the A340s it might not show up in Airbus' orderbook until the A350 deliveries begin in several years.



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 33):
Despite losing the launch customer of the -600HGW, Airbus would still come out ahead. The A350 order is rumored to be for as many as 50 aircraft plus options, so your still talking another 30 aircraft (albiet lower priced than A346).

But Boeing would come out further ahead if they were to get a fresh batch of 773ER orders and 772LR orders on top of that.  Smile

Anyway, A359s are supposedly at least 5 years away. A346s were supposed to come sooner, which means their cash flow will be reduced unless they can place those delivery slots with someone else. Also, I think a big stink will be thrown up by Boeing and the US if Airbus doesn't pay back the A340NG launch aid because they aren't selling, even if it is because Boeing is winning the orders.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:44 pm

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 28):
but if too many A340-500 airlines dump the airplane in a short period of time

Does this mean, TG is also going to dump their 345's??

Also, are 9W going to get those EK 1st class suites on their 345's, when leased??

JOY
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
 
COUGARRIDES
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting JoyA380B747 (Reply 36):
Also, are 9W going to get those EK 1st class suites on their 345's, when leased??

AFAIK, 9W is going to be 2 class operation. So only CLub Premiere (J) and Economy.

Can anyone confirm if BA/KLM are looking to sub-lease some of their 747-400's?
Air India - Indias national shame
 
777ER
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:56 pm

I might have missed it, but where is the source about 9W taking EKs A345s?
 
LAXDESI
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:01 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 38):
might have missed it, but where is the source about 9W taking EKs A345s?

Ditto. Google or other aviation sites do not show anything related to this deal.
Can ConcordeBoy provide a link please.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:09 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 34):
add SQ, AF, and VS (though the HGK-SYD route isn't doing all that great for the 346 right now)..

the problem with VS on the HKG-SYD sector is not aircraft related. It's more market share and growth!

I think VS would have trouble filling an A320 between HKG_SYD if it had the range.!
 
mauriceb
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:49 pm

Can anyone confirm if BA/KLM are looking to sub-lease some of their 747-400's


well atleast not KLM.... They have a capicity shortage at the moment and some say they will receive more AF 747's in the futher, when AF will go for more 777-300ER's the also orderd 13 A330/777's to replace the 12 767's, wich means you can see they are seeking for fleet expansion...
 
dennys
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:52 pm

the A345 is THE WAY to fly NONSTOP from INDIA to THE USA !!!! FOUR JETS for very long routes is THE WAY !!!!

denn
 
sllevin
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:12 pm

I find it most interesting that EK, an airline which is ordering new airframes right and left, would be interested in giving up ANY capacity.

I'm struggling to understand where giving up lift now fits in this picture.

Steve
 
N1120A
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:29 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
Not sure when that was, but the 380t A346s features 20nm more range than the predicted range of the newer 773ERs.

That was not all that long ago, 7900nm to 8000nm. Still, 20nm is nothing and they will likely miss anyway

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 17):
...and who here's willing to bet even $0.05 that it'll actually hit that range estimate?

I am not even willing to throw in  twocents 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
It think the 777 now, with A350 replacing them in the future is a good bet.

The A350 will not have anywhere near the range of the 772LR

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 30):
I don't know what they would do with the 772As though.

Actually, for what they are used for, the 772A is ideal for EK. They are lower thrust, lower weight and have just as much capacity as other 777s.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 28):
Parlay vous anglais?

Well, you should probably work on your Francais first Big grin

Quoting COUGARRIDES (Reply 37):
Can anyone confirm if BA/KLM are looking to sub-lease some of their 747-400's?

Not last I checked.

Quoting Dennys (Reply 42):
the A345 is THE WAY to fly NONSTOP from INDIA to THE USA !!!! FOUR JETS for very long routes is THE WAY !!!!

And what was the point of this?

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 43):
I'm struggling to understand where giving up lift now fits in this picture.

EK seems to finally being running head long into the economic realities they have been ignoring up till now. It is likely half the A380s they ordered will end up as freighters and they are really looking toward a streamlining of the fleet
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
BestWestern
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:34 pm

Is the problem the A345 or the actual viability of ultra long range flights? From what I understand the CASM difference between Boeing and Airbus is tiny.
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zvezda
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:45 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 45):
Is the problem the A345 or the actual viability of ultra long range flights? From what I understand the CASM difference between Boeing and Airbus is tiny.

Between which Boeing and which Airbus? The CASM difference between the A340-500 and the B777-300LR is enormous. The CASM difference between the A340-600 and the B777-300ER is not so large, but still significant.
 
Leskova
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:50 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 46):
The CASM difference between the A340-500 and the B777-300LR is enormous.

Extremely enormous... especially because there is no such thing as a B777-300LR.

Regards,
Frank

Edited: typo...

[Edited 2005-06-01 10:51:26]
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Udo
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:51 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 46):
The CASM difference between the A340-500 and the B777-300LR is enormous.

-200LR


Regards
Udo
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N1120A
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RE: 9W To Take EK's A345s

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:02 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 46):
The CASM difference between the A340-500 and the B777-300LR

While you got the number wrong on the 777, you are right about the CASM difference

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 45):
From what I understand the CASM difference between Boeing and Airbus is tiny.

On the route mission of the A345 now, the difference is staggering.
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