NAV20
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Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:22 pm

"DELIVERY of Qantas's new flagship double-decker super-jumbo will be delayed by at least six months because of problems at European manufacturer Airbus, damaging the carrier's aim to be the best on the Pacific route.

"The shock news comes less than two months after the Europeans trumpeted the successful maiden flight of the plane and two weeks before they go to battle with rival Boeing at the Paris airshow.

"Airbus representatives delivered the bad news to Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon during the International Air Transport Associations annual general meeting in Tokyo this week.

"The Australian understands delays apply to all aircraft in the A380 program and will also hit deliveries to Singapore Airlines and Emirates, leaving the manufacturer open to substantial penalties.

"We've expressed our disappointment to them," Mr Dixon said last night. "We now want to sit down and make sure the new timetable is met and our people work closely with them to meet this deadline."

"Mr Dixon said Airbus gave a variety of reasons for the delay, including difficulties in customising the A380 for individual airlines.

"Qantas has a tight contract specifying delivery times of aircraft, and Mr Dixon confirmed last night there were penalties for delays and Qantas would seek compensation."


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au.../0,5744,15470824%255E23349,00.html

Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

[Edited 2005-06-01 05:26:06]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:28 pm

Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

Yes, the program is delayed, same as other commercial flops like the 73NG, the 777, and A330/340. Sell all your EADS shares, the sky is falling.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:29 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
"Qantas has a tight contract specifying delivery times of aircraft, and Mr Dixon confirmed last night there were penalties for delays and Qantas would seek compensation.

from the given price from various media of the QF purchasing the The WhaleJet for $140-$160 million, maybe they are going to get them for $120 million each now....(ok..i'm being a smart alec), but it does seem like a problem for Airbus, and I think this weight issue problem is not going to go away for now...that being said, I'm quite positive Airbus will solve this problem.
"Up the Irons!"
 
zvezda
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:30 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

Doubt will be only among those intent on believing what they want to believe. Among the reasonable, there is no room for doubt.
 
zeekiel
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:30 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

I wouldn't call it that, but it is a setback to the program. Airbus would definately be paying compensation for the delays, mainly due to the airtight contracts the airlines and Airbus signed.

Airbus better get its act together to:

1) Make sure that future customers do not get turned off potential problems with the A380.

2) Make sure they are not paying heavy compensation to airlines.

Damn, no A380 flights between MEL-LAX end of 2006.

Cheers

Zeekiel

[Edited 2005-06-01 05:32:08]
Bring back the New Zealand Air Combat Force
 
leelaw
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:38 pm

IMO, "PIP" are likely the letters which will be most closely associated with the A388.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
zvezda
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:40 pm

Quoting Zeekiel (Reply 4):
no A380 flights between MEL-LAX end of 2006.

MEL-LAX would be tough market for the WhaleJet anytime. UA pulled out because their break-even load factor was over 100%. That was when fuel was cheap. The B747Adv might be able to squeeze out a little profit on MEL-LAX, but the WhaleJet?? Most doubtful. The WhaleJet's CASM is too high. The only OZ-US route for which the WhaleJet may make commercial sense is SYD-LAX.
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:56 pm

I loved that bit about "We've expressed our disappointment to them...."

Translation into colloquial Australian available on request  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:02 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):

Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

They are in no danger, at this time, of losing solvency or the ability to field new products.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):

Yes, the program is delayed, same as other commercial flops like the 73NG, the 777, and A330/340. Sell all your EADS shares, the sky is falling.

Don't kid yourself: Airbus isn't peaches and cream at the moment, they've more than proven mortal. The A388 will likely turn a profit, but not in anything of a timely matter. The bar of profitability keeps getting moved further back and now (2005) isn't a time for sitting around waiting for return.
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:06 pm

I don't understand how this is news. We already knew about a roughly six-month delay in delivery to SQ and EK, so it was more than obvioust that there would be similar stories with other airlines. The only 'news' here is that Qantas have made some statements and shown that they intend to e re-imbursed which, again, we could already have concluded.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't problems with the A380, but it's beyond me how people on this board could think that this story is disastrous 'news'... There's really nothing new here, so what's the purpose of raising the alarm...again? I suppose we have our answer if we just look at who the thread poster is.
Next flight.... who knows.
 
777STL
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:09 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
MEL-LAX would be tough market for the WhaleJet anytime. UA pulled out because their break-even load factor was over 100%. That was when fuel was cheap. The B747Adv might be able to squeeze out a little profit on MEL-LAX, but the WhaleJet?? Most doubtful. The WhaleJet's CASM is too high. The only OZ-US route for which the WhaleJet may make commercial sense is SYD-LAX.

And QF has publicly stated that MEL-LAX-MEL would be the first routes for the 380s.
PHX based
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
They are in no danger, at this time, of losing solvency or the ability to field new products.

They're going to have to borrow big, though. At the rumoured price of $150M. for the first batch (say 50 frames) that's say $7.5 billion which won't be flowing in in 2006.

Or, in other words, about twice EADS' normal annual profit?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:19 pm

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 9):
I don't understand how this is news. We already knew about a roughly six-month delay in delivery to SQ and EK

Have to disagree, Jean. This story says the delay will be until 'at least' April 2007. So there are still no firm delivery dates.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Planesmart
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:33 pm

The launch customer discount is a reward the manufacturer grants for increased risk, which is accepted by early customers. For example, most performance guarantees and delivery dates include tolerances. For launch customers, these tolerances are larger than for an aircraft in or close to production.

Not all launch customers will have the same guarantees or penalties. These are related to the size of the order, value of the customer connection and the skills of the negotiators. Singapore will almost certainly have a better deal than Qantas.

The problems for A are twofold. One, A & B are increasingly forgetting that launch discounts should be win win. They have tended to become deep discounts for customers, without the corresponding performance tolerances for the manufacturer. And second, many of the current 'orders' are more like options, with detailed contract negotiations still taking place. This places customers in an extremely strong bargaining position.

B fans shouldn't get too excited with A's plight. B has exactly the same exposure with the 787, with the exception of AirNZ, no airline will part with a serious deposit and finalise contracts until much closer to first flight.
 
QF744
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:35 pm

Here is an official statement from Qantas just released...

In the statement, Geoff Dixon said Qantas would "bring forward the delivery of other aircraft on order"...

What current orders do Qantas have that could be used for long-haul?

QF744


Qantas today confirmed that the delivery of its first A380 would be delayed by six months as a result of manufacturing issues at Airbus.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the airline was now scheduled to take delivery of the first of its 12 new A380 aircraft in April 2007.
“This is disappointing, given that we have met all of Airbus’ deadlines for Qantas specifications, however we are developing contingency plans to ensure there is no impact on our schedules or available capacity during the six month delay.”
Mr Dixon said possible contingencies under discussion included deferring the retirement of a number of aircraft, redirecting capacity, and bringing forward the delivery of other aircraft on order.
Mr Dixon said that all airlines with early A380 orders were in the same situation, and that Airbus had advised that the deliveries would be made in the same sequence with the same time differentials.
“We will be working closely with Airbus to ensure the new deadline is met,” Mr Dixon said.
He said Qantas would also be seeking compensation from Airbus in line with the terms of its contract.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
zeekiel
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:47 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
MEL-LAX would be tough market for the WhaleJet anytime.

Not necessarily. MEL upgraded the runway for the A380 and Qantas on top of their daily QF93/94 services, they operate QF103/104 once weekly. I'm not sure if the lack of extra QF services is due to the lack of demand or lack of available equipment as their 744 fleet is stretched quite fairly.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 10):
And QF has publicly stated that MEL-LAX-MEL would be the first routes for the 380s.

Right on there mate.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
UA pulled out because their break-even load factor was over 100%. That was when fuel was cheap.

I don't know where you got that information from. UA still operates the UA840/839 MEL-LAX service as a one stop service via Sydney. If you mean they pulled out of the non-stop service or the via AKL service then I understand. But more than 100% load factors required? I'm not sure if thats true either.

QF currently has a good advantage on this route operating a non-stop service using their ER and upgraded RB211 744 aircraft.

Cheers

Zeekiel

[Edited 2005-06-01 06:56:34]
Bring back the New Zealand Air Combat Force
 
dhefty
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:06 pm

Quoting PlaneSmart (Reply 13):
B fans shouldn't get too excited with A's plight. B has exactly the same exposure with the 787, with the exception of AirNZ, no airline will part with a serious deposit and finalise contracts until much closer to first flight.

What are your sources for such a statement? Boeing is receiving standard non-refundable down payments upon signing of a firm contract. At that time they then list it as a firm order on their website. Progress payments are made as the delivery date approaches. Penalties could be imposed on Boeing, per contractual verbiage, if the aircraft does not meet its guarantees.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:14 pm

Quoting PlaneSmart (Reply 13):
For example, most performance guarantees and delivery dates include tolerances.

Except Airbus has taken the tact of making zero tolerance guarantees in most of their competitions in an effort to win orders. They evidently look on the penalties for a missed guarantee as a cost of doing business.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:22 pm

Quoting QF744 (Reply 14):
What current orders do Qantas have that could be used for long-haul?

QFA744, bringing orders forward was only mentioned as 'possible'. If Qantas does have any longhauls on order they must be Airbus; Boeing's order site only lists 9X737s outstanding for Qantas.

Unless Qantas uses any longhauls on domestic or more local routes at present, and could switch things around if they got the 737s earlier?

[Edited 2005-06-01 07:22:52]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:31 pm

 Yeah sure

Oh, I believe there are 3 outstanding A330-300's... or it might be 2. Not sure.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
Udo
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:37 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

That's sarcasm, right? Otherwise one more proof for your desperate paranoia-like attempts to make everyone believe Airbus is close to death. But the only result from your continuous ridiculous comments will be a further loss of your credibility...  melting 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
Doubt will be only among those intent on believing what they want to believe. Among the reasonable, there is no room for doubt.

The question is who you are talking about...the guys who don't have any single piece of insider knowledge about a major aviation company but still think they are in a position to make smart judgements from what they read on a.net?  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
MEL-LAX would be tough market for the WhaleJet anytime. UA pulled out because their break-even load factor was over 100%. That was when fuel was cheap. The B747Adv might be able to squeeze out a little profit on MEL-LAX, but the WhaleJet?? Most doubtful.

And where do you get that from? Your imagination? "Most doubtful" is what your comments could advertise with...  thumbsup 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
The only OZ-US route for which the WhaleJet may make commercial sense is SYD-LAX.

*YAWN*

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I loved that bit about "We've expressed our disappointment to them...."

What should they have said? "We are happy?"



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:44 pm

Quoting Udo (Reply 20):
What should they have said? "We are happy?"

Just a JOKE, Udo old mate. It's a safe bet that, in Australian business circles, the actual language used was a fair bit more colourful than 'We wish to express our disappointment.'  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:01 pm

NAV20--It's a safe bet that, in Australian business circles, the actual language used was a fair bit more colourful than 'We wish to express our disappointment.'  

As opposed to say "NAV20 wishes to express his utter glee on a.net"  Smile
 
zeekiel
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:04 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
Just a JOKE, Udo old mate.

Waiting for the larrikin to jump out...

Cheers

Zeekiel
Bring back the New Zealand Air Combat Force
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:21 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

Wayyyyyy to early to be predicting any gloom & doom for the A380, right now it is an airplane that is being delayed. Now, of course, if Airbus starts talking of additional delays on top of the already announced delays, that is another story. Also, the airlines are still hanging in there awaiting deliveries of the A380, when airlines start to talk of cancelling orders, once again, another story.
NO URLS in signature
 
ikramerica
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:34 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
Just a JOKE

I get it, even if these hypersensitive blokes seem to be missing it. I'd just like to hear your take on what was really said. Aussies and Brits always have much more colorful ways of expressing anger than us average Yanks.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:41 pm

*YAWN*
Sounds like Udo needs some sleep
 
sebolino
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:52 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

May I propose you as the financial analyst of the year ?
 
Udo
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:21 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 26):
Sounds like Udo needs some sleep

Nothing's better than Zvezda's goodnight stories...


Regards
Udo

[Edited 2005-06-01 10:28:02]
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
aussie747
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:29 pm

There are only 8 x 738's and 3 x A333's all to be deliverd by DEC 2005 with the last A333 in MAR 2006.

Perhaps we could see QF place an order for one or two 744ER models. I am sure thay could be delivered prior to OCT 2006.

What impact though would this have on the impending Widebody order placement it is due to make end of this year. I would have thought QF would bring this forward, but I hear people say it would delay any impending order.

What are the thoughts on this?
 
Carpethead
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:29 pm

There will be knock on effect to customers taking A380s in early 2007 too.
So the A380 will be at least 6 months behind, assuming a smooth test flight program. A little compensation for late deliveries will be paid out. Hardly gloom and doom for the A380. This will only happen if basic performance milestones aren't met or there's an incident with any of the test aircraft.
 
PM
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:42 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

I'm afraid your problem is that people read a ludicrous statement like that, gasp, then see its origin and say, "Oh, it's only NAV20 again..." Elsewhere you have argued your (highly subjective) point of view fairly rationally but, in my view, you are in danger of making yourself a laughing stock.

Remember the 777's introduction? Remember the head of UA taking the highly unusual step of publicly rebuking Boeing on the quality of the early-build aircraft? Should we have screamed then that 777 the project was "a commercial disaster"? And if we had, would history have proved us right?
 
antares
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 pm

NAV20,

Have a Bex and a good lie down. You didn't think the jet would take off at all. You seem terrified of the future. Hey I'm older than you. I've got over no more Vickers VC-10s and all that. That darned 747 was so big it would never fly too.

This year I'll see a spacecraft hit a comet. I'll fly in an Emirates 777-300ER. I'll get Foxtel in the seat back of a Virgin Blue 737, and I'll fly my fifth scenic flight over Antarctica in a 747, and take a Singapore Airlines A345 along the edge of polar night from New York City, and a scenic DC-3 along the Sydney coastline. In November I'm taking the some of the grand kids and their parents to New zealand, to witness the disappearance of the temperate glaciers as they give way to wild flowers and the first trees at this moment of global transformation.

I'll welcome more great grandchildren and they will enter the palace of dreams that I might barely glimpse in my dying moments, but it will be full of great jets, wonderful things that will outsoar the highest purple ceiling of the stratosphere, and bring people together at a lower cost, and more efficiency, than those weird old jets that used to fly at the start of the 21st century.

Why is this forum so fearful of the future. Six months is 0.5% of one century.

Get over it.

Antares
 
ikramerica
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:07 pm

Quoting Antares (Reply 32):
Six months is 0.5% of one century

but it is like, 12 generations of fruit fly, more or less
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
industrybuff
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:09 pm

Antares has truely won my respect
 
stall
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting Industrybuff (Reply 34):
Antares has truely won my respect

Mine too !!!
Flying is fun
 
zvezda
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:24 pm

Quoting Zeekiel (Reply 15):
MEL upgraded the runway for the A380

If the runway at MEL has been extended, then I withdraw my statements. I was relying on old information.

Quoting Zeekiel (Reply 15):
I don't know where you got that information from.

UA WHQ.

Quoting Zeekiel (Reply 15):
UA still operates the UA840/839 MEL-LAX service as a one stop service via Sydney. If you mean they pulled out of the non-stop service or the via AKL service then I understand.

I meant the nonstop. I apologize for the lack of clarity.
 
Udo
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:28 pm

Antares,

one of the best posts I have read on a.net - and makes certain posters on this board just look silly.  thumbsup 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
mauriceb
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:31 pm

wow antares making a usefull reply! lol
 
Leskova
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:31 pm

Thank you for putting things into perspective...

Quoting Antares (Reply 32):
Why is this forum so fearful of the future. Six months is 0.5% of one century.

... and I agree: your post is certainly one of the best I've ever read on airliners.net.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
gigneil
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:06 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
The B747Adv might be able to squeeze out a little profit on MEL-LAX, but the WhaleJet?? Most doubtful. The WhaleJet's CASM is too high. The

What exactly is the A380's CASM, Zvezda?

N
 
Biggles
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:07 pm

Quoting Antares (Reply 32):
This year I'll....

Amazing,uplifting post !!

You deserve this... praise 
 
mrniji
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 39):
... and I agree: your post is certainly one of the best I've ever read on airliners.net.

Regards,
Frank

I join the choir.. amazing, Antares!  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
antares
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:38 pm

Thanks all, I started off loving boats and steam trains (and still do) and then came flight. I'm sure we all like that whatever our occasional disagreements.

Time for a ritual up here in the high plains. A quick scan of the stars (a freezing brilliant starry sky) the lights of a few jets on the Sydney-Melbourne run, and a hot mug of chocolate.

Antares
 
Planesmart
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:02 pm

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 16):
Boeing is receiving standard non-refundable down payments upon signing of a firm contract.

'Standard' in terms of the definition of an order in 1980 or 2005? B holds final, detailed contracts for all 'ordered' 787's, including delivery and performance, with guarantees and penalties, supported by non-refundable, non-transferrable, non-deferrable deposits?

Easy way to check. Look at the first set of airline financials after their order is publicised. Look for movements in liabilities and assets, and supporting explanatory notes. Does the value of the order appear as a liability or contingent liability? Does it appear at all?

Orders this far out have escape clauses as big as the Atlantic Ocean, like subject to the customer obtaining finance acceptable to the customer.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 16):
Progress payments are made as the delivery date approaches.

Dhefty, if an airline orders 787's for delivery starting in 2010, when will they make their first progress payment after their initial deposit?
 
zvezda
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RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:19 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 40):

What exactly is the A380's CASM, Zvezda?

Exactly 0.22784598037895474984875 LTL. Well, maybe not exactly, but rounded off to the nearest 0.00000000000000000000001 LTL. Of course, that may vary by +/- 0.0798747109389409458743 LTL depending on operating conditions.

 Smile  duck   Smile
 
monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:20 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 27):
May I propose you as the financial analyst of the year ?

I would not go as far as to say that NAV20 doesn't know what he is talking about in the business arena, that I am certain that he does.

Quoting Antares (Reply 32):
Have a Bex and a good lie down. You didn't think the jet would take off at all.

Very true, what a wonderful post Antares.

Quoting Antares (Reply 32):
I'll welcome more great grandchildren and they will enter the palace of dreams that I might barely glimpse in my dying moments, but it will be full of great jets, wonderful things that will outsoar the highest purple ceiling of the stratosphere, and bring people together at a lower cost, and more efficiency, than those weird old jets that used to fly at the start of the 21st century.

Why is this forum so fearful of the future. Six months is 0.5% of one century.

Get over it.

Geez you hit the nail on the head.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 38):
wow antares making a usefull reply! lol

Thats a bit rough, in my opinion he always posts a decent reply.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:05 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
I already knew what this was about when I saw the thread title and poster!

Anyways, here I go: If you really think it's a commercial disaster and they are in serious trouble becuase (1) airlines did not completely prepare on their part (2) airbus was not ready to deliver when they had initially thought because they are getting it RIGHT... then I feel sorry for you! This has happened before with Boeing and Airbus aircraft before, none of which were a commercial disaster. I think it's time to get real. And cheers Antares for that post. Respect  Smile
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NumberTwelve
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:57 pm

RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:05 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Can there now be any reasonable doubt that the A380 is a commercial disaster, and that EADS/Airbus are in serious financial trouble?

Yes, there can. Sorry, NAV20, you're blind on one eye.
Antares: "You [NAV20] didn't think the jet would take off at all. "
Good one, Antares.

Nav20, it's clear that the first planes of a serie always can get a delay. But what has the delay to do with financial problems? Airbus gets lots of subsidies from European governments, they (mostly) pay for getting more jobs than making wars. What's so bad on it?

[Edited 2005-06-01 14:10:36]
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QFA001
Posts: 651
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 6:47 am

RE: Qantas A380s Delayed Till 2007

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:18 pm

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 47):
(1) airlines did not completely prepare on their part

However, QF did. Yet, their airplanes will be delayed by six months.

Buyer Furnished Equipment doesn't prevent the delivery of an airplane to an airline in a timely fashion. What is causing the A380 delays is changes to the airframe that will delay certification.

Anyhow, it's not surprising that two of the three launch customers couldn't get their cabin specifications complete on-time. Struggling to reduce the weight of the airplane, Airbus demanded that more weight be taken out of the cabin furnishings.

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 47):
(2) airbus was not ready to deliver when they had initially thought because they are getting it RIGHT...

Delays to large projects are almost inevitable. Yet, the A380 delays are not trivial, especially considering that the entire delivery program has to shift to the right. Right now SQ is looking at an 8-month delay compared to the first EIS date that Airbus gave them in 2000. (From Mar- to Nov-06.)

That is poor for a program that has had a long, 4.5-yr gestation period to this point. With such a long lead time, a lot of people in the airline world are pissed that Airbus can't get this puppy to market quicker than they will. Furthermore, there is general unhappiness that Airbus has known about the delay since before the A380 Reveal, yet has continued taking progress payments based on the original EIS schedule that they gave airlines.