mauriceb
Posts: 2150
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Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:48 pm

according to the dutch TV channel a Onur air plane is leaking fuel....


will this take Onur Air down for sure?
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:56 pm

Well, let's be careful with this message and other similar ones coming up in the near future. For sure, the medias are waiting like hungry lions for another Onur Air incident. I think best and most objective will be to wait and see, what the authorities are going to communicate about Onur Air.
 
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airbuseric
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 pm

It seems to be a flight from EIN to AYT, with an Airbus A321! Passengers all disembarked the plane while engines were already running... Dutch authorities now investigate this case

On board 138 pax + 5 crew

Rgds
Eric

[Edited 2005-06-01 15:03:56]
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
mauriceb
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:08 pm

It seems to be a flight from EIN to AYT, with an Airbus A321! Passengers all disembarked the plane while engines were already running... Dutch authorities now investigate this case

ouch!!! didn't they just recenly received an award from airbus for being the best A321 operator?
 
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airkas1
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:01 pm

I was in the car when I heard the news on the radio... I was like "Oh no, not again".

I know this kind of thing can happen to every airline, but Onur Air seems to have a lot of "bad luck" recently. I hope they'll keep on flying to Holland, but they can't afford more mistakes I think.

Kas
Airliners.net Crew - Head Photo Screener
 
flyAUA
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:04 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 3):
ouch!!! didn't they just recenly received an award from airbus for being the best A321 operator?

I doubt they are the best operator of any aircraft  Wink
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
canberra
Posts: 289
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:07 pm

Big deal, safety procedures in place and everybody OK.

It is amassing even aviation enthusiasts participate in this media campaign (supported by Dutch authorities and Dutch charter airlines?) against Onur.

Would fly them any day without any worries.

All the best, Michael
It takes courage to push things forward . . (Mo Mowlam)
 
backfire
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting AirKas1 (Reply 4):
but Onur Air seems to have a lot of "bad luck" recently

Er...funny how all the "bad luck" only happens to the airlines who are getting done for slack safety standards.  Yeah sure
 
GVBIG
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:26 pm

Err...this happens to every airline. Should all airlines be grounded then?  Yeah sure
Booked it, Packed it, f*cked off!
 
flyAUA
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:29 pm

Quoting AirKas1 (Reply 4):
Onur Air seems to have a lot of "bad luck" recently.

Safety is not achieved by "luck", it is achieved by having good maintenance, a no-blame safety culture, and efficient crew resource management...

...ok ok, and maybe a very teensy weensy bit of luck Big grin

[Edited 2005-06-01 16:34:40]
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:35 pm

This is just "sensationalist" journalism... they are waiting like a hungry Lion for a prey, like Legacy135 said.

We should chill down. All aircrafts have spills. Even the Concorde. Are airplanes grounded for leaking lav "liquid" (greenish stuff)? I think not. So let's wait for more news to come. I guess this will be a big smack for Onur Air, since their public reputation will become even worse. - GP (general public) will feel bad and authorities, will obviously rush to ban Onur again, not to lose their supporters.  no 


Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
Joost
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:36 pm

Every airline sometimes has incidents. While having good maintainance, well-trained crews, etc., there is always a risk for an incident. All airlines have them. However, with Onur air, thse incidents seem to occur quite often. There has no real accident been yet, but the frequency of incidents is evidently above average. When the line between "incidents" to "regularities" has been crossed, should you just wait for a fatal accident? Some say that it's all about politics - but isn't it all about safety and human lifes?
 
GVBIG
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:37 pm

Maybe they dislike the Dutch  Wink
I havent heard of incidents with OHY flights to/from the UK personally, anybody?
Booked it, Packed it, f*cked off!
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:38 pm

I agree, big deal!

So it is leaking oil.....which is essentially what jet fuel is when it is NOT in the high pressure, high temperature environment inside a jet engine's compressors.

 banghead 
 
Orion737
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:39 pm

I hope Onur look carefully at what is being suggested/implied by these Dutch journalist. I hope a member of Onur's legal team is watching the words of journalists very carefull and is ready to mount legal action if needed.
 
LJ
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:45 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
I hope Onur look carefully at what is being suggested/implied by these Dutch journalist. I hope a member of Onur's legal team is watching the words of journalists very carefull and is ready to mount legal action if needed.

How can Onur deny that the report is inaccurate? The incident at EIN happened

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 1):
I think best and most objective will be to wait and see, what the authorities are going to communicate about Onur Air.

They've send a team of three IVW inspectors to EIN and informed the Turkish CAA about the incident. Onur seems to have send their own technicians to EIN.
 
Joost
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:55 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
I hope Onur look carefully at what is being suggested/implied by these Dutch journalist. I hope a member of Onur's legal team is watching the words of journalists very carefull and is ready to mount legal action if needed.

What are you talking about?? What should Dutch journalists imply or suggest? What article? What TV emission? Please, share it.

The articles I read about it, are all just mentioning facts. Nothing to mount er sue about.

Some parts of the article on nu.nl: ( http://www.nu.nl/news/534677/10/Weer...blemen_met_vliegtuig_Onur_Air.html )

they state that:

- again problems with Onur - yes, the word 'again' can be used.
- a part of the fuel tank inlet connection was broken, according to inspection
- the cause of the error hasn't been determined yet
- no danger for passengers
- no panic on board
- director of EIN saw the incident happen

Next to that, they have quotes from Onur manager Aksak:
- bad maintainence is not an issue

And an Onur lawyer:
- the airplane was subject to strict italian inspection - it is also under strict inspection there
- The airplane returned from heavy maintaince on the 8th of may

A Volkskrant article ( http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/1117605212313.html ) is almost the same, it all comes from ANP (press agency)

Where do you see a suggestion about something?

And why do so many people think it's just a political move? Should the inspection just cease it activities? And: is safety less important to politics?

By the way, the inspection is publishing the lists of problems found during inspections on-line on www.ivw.nl. So everybody can draw it's own conclusions wheter to fly the airline.
 
Orion737
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:03 am

Well I like Onur and would love to ride on their MD88s. I trust the airline more than i trust the EU and many of the people of certain EU countries who are voting no in referendums partly to keep the lovley Turks out the EU.

I mean Turkish has felt it had to buy 321s, they deserve to be let in the EU for adding 321s. I mean in a hot/high environment like Turkey is the 321 really a good performer?
 
planespotterx
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:23 am

Im not familiar with Onur Air, why does this airline have such a bad reputation?, ive never heard of any crashes by them or incidents on the news.
Could someone enlighten me to any past incidents.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
Sabena332
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Planespotterx (Reply 18):
Im not familiar with Onur Air, why does this airline have such a bad reputation?

Didn't you watch the forum in the past few weeks? Onur Air was banned in several European countries because of "safety problems".

Look here:
Last Warning For Onur Air (by OO-VEG May 7 2005 in Civil Aviation)
Onur Air Banned In Switzerland (by RootsAir May 14 2005 in Civil Aviation)
Onur Air Banned In France (by FlySSC May 14 2005 in Civil Aviation)
Belgium Is Also Banning Onur Air A/C (by FraT May 19 2005 in Civil Aviation)
Onur Also Banned In Germany? (by LJ May 12 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
virgin744
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:38 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 16):
- a part of the fuel tank inlet connection was broken, according to inspection

So, for argument sake, if a foreign airport operator brakes something on an Onur plane, throws the broken piece away so s/he doesnt get in trouble and on a later routing that the plane is found to be faulty, what then? Where does responsibility lay? Obviously all airlines have to mend their broken planes but they will obviously want to recoup costs especially when its an airport worker to blame and NOT the airline....

So, regardless of which airport worker damages a plane they will obviously not bother about it if its minor damage and will probably be advised by their bosses about the possible load of paperwork and insurance claim forms that will need to be filled in, so I can easily understand how people dont report these incidents and wait for someone else to spot and raise it instead.

virgin744
 
N774UA
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:48 am

Well I like Onur and would love to ride on their MD88s. I trust the airline more than i trust the EU and many of the people of certain EU countries who are voting no in referendums partly to keep the lovley Turks out the EU.

I smell some political frustration.  covereyes 

N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
legacy135
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting N774UA (Reply 21):
I smell some political frustration.

Please come on..... some politically motivated activists drilling holes in the wing to make them leaking the fuel???
As I wrote in a former post, let's no wait and see what the experts are going to find out. There are so many possibilities for fuel spilling out of the wing. It does not need to be Onur Airs fault at all...... it can be their fault...... it can be coincidence.... We should now relay in serious reporting with facts and there are quite a couple of them in previous posts.
Bye the way, what does it the EU help if Onur Air goes down the drain? I am sure they want them to go on flying and sell them more Airbus's. If you think that the EU wants to drive some Turkish carriers out of business, then they should attack all the Boeing operators, but they don't. So?
 
N774UA
Posts: 332
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:54 am

Please come on..... some politically motivated activists drilling holes in the wing to make them leaking the fuel???

No, that is not what I meant. I was referring to Virgin744's statement.

Regards
N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
LJ
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:38 am

The pax on the aircraft are/have been bussed to AMS to catch a flight to Antalya (probably flight OHY 300).
 
prok
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:19 am

RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:13 am

Quoting Planespotterx (Reply 18):
Im not familiar with Onur Air, why does this airline have such a bad reputation?, ive never heard of any crashes by them or incidents on the news.
Could someone enlighten me to any past incidents.

Only incident I'm aware of:
June 17th 2003 they overran the runway at EHGG. Probable cause: Stabilizer trim not set for take off but trimmed nose down, plane wouldn't rotate at Vr...
 
Boogyjay
Posts: 436
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:14 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 16):
a part of the fuel tank inlet connection was broken, according to inspection



Quoting Virgin744 (Reply 20):
So, regardless of which airport worker damages a plane they will obviously not bother about it if its minor damage and will probably be advised by their bosses about the possible load of paperwork and insurance claim forms that will need to be filled in, so I can easily understand how people dont report these incidents and wait for someone else to spot and raise it instead.

I was thinking the same thing.
Like Legacy135, I think we have to wait the investigations and to be very careful until people have been found to be guilty.
It's difficult to ignore the few recent problems of Onur Air but it's also easy to point fingers toward a scapegoat.
Until then, we can be totally wrong.

By the way, in French a synonym for scapegoat is "Tete de turc" i.e. literally Turkish head, funny, isn't it? Big grin
 
1stspotter
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:25 am

A movie showing jet fuel coming out as a stream from the righthand wing can be seen here

http://www.omroepbrabant.nl/resource...ewsfolder=38&news=45432&video=1408
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 17):
I mean Turkish has felt it had to buy 321s, they deserve to be let in the EU for adding 321s.

Is this some sort of infection of naivety spreading through the a.net or is it just that the pro-Airbus cheerleading prevents you from sane thinking???
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 2):
It seems to be a flight from EIN to AYT, with an Airbus A321! Passengers all disembarked the plane while engines were already running... Dutch authorities now investigate this case

I'd like to read something in English about this, first. NEXT, i'd like to wait until something official as to the cause is announced. It could have been someone refuleing the a/c's fault, it could have been anything. But what i don't like is how, maybe just the media, some A.netters are hungry to take down an airline they havent been on, based ENTIRELY on what other people say, is it that easy to have your minds controlled?!

THY bought the A321s and the A320s because the board and management changes at TK frequently, it's been in the works for 3-5 years to purchase Airbus aircraft because certain aspects of running airbus are cheaper for us. If we wanted to get into the EU, instead of buying 15 737-800s and several airbus, we would have bought ALL airbus....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
HR001
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:49 am

This proves what a lot of people said on the other thread that things cannot change in a few days, If Onur had changed procedures, things like this should n´t happen, Extra care should be taken on the planes traveling specially to Europe if they really want to "wash their face"...
 
canberra
Posts: 289
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting HR001 (Reply 30):
Extra care should be taken on the planes traveling specially to Europe if they really want to "wash their face"...

As Pilotaydin said, lets see if it is Onur's fault before we start blameing  tapedshut 

/Michael white 
It takes courage to push things forward . . (Mo Mowlam)
 
LJ
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 29):
But what i don't like is how, maybe just the media, some A.netters are hungry to take down an airline they havent been on, based ENTIRELY on what other people say, is it that easy to have your minds controlled?!

Maybe if some Turkish charter airlines try to get out of the media and start thinking about how to prevent receiving warnings from the IVW (this week MNG joined the list of "airlines under close inspection by the IVW") they may get a better image.

Fortunatly touroperators decide on who you fly and they still prefer the cheapest airline.

Quoting HR001 (Reply 30):
This proves what a lot of people said on the other thread that things cannot change in a few days, If Onur had changed procedures, things like this should n´t happen,

Incorrect, the IVW acknowledged that the incident of today isn't part of one of the three issues they discussed with Onur last week and which resulted in the ban a few weeks ago.
 
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airkas1
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting Backfire (Reply 7):
Er...funny how all the "bad luck" only happens to the airlines who are getting done for slack safety standards.



Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 9):
Safety is not achieved by "luck", it is achieved by having good maintenance, a no-blame safety culture, and efficient crew resource management...

I know, I just didn't want to bring up the maintenance issue because I thought I would get flamed for it.
Airliners.net Crew - Head Photo Screener
 
HR001
Posts: 292
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:33 am

Quoting LJ (Reply 32):
Incorrect, the IVW acknowledged that the incident of today isn't part of one of the three issues they discussed with Onur last week and which resulted in the ban a few weeks ago.

Thanks for the info, I stand corrected.
 
isuA380B777
Posts: 166
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:35 am

Hi all
Any photos of this leaking air craft??

Regards
Isu
 
AMSSFO
Posts: 912
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:39 am

Quoting IsuA380B777 (Reply 35):
Any photos of this leaking air craft??



Quoting 1stspotter (Reply 27):
A movie showing jet fuel coming out as a stream from the righthand wing can be seen here

http://www.omroepbrabant.nl/resource...=1408

Why do you need a picture if you have a movie? It's an amateur video, so not very stable, but it shows the leak very clearly.
Interestingly, it took the fire truck more than 3 minutes to get at the scene! Even the stairs were set up sooner.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 29):

I'd like to read something in English about this, first.

I doubt anything will appear in English media. It is not that important. But here are sites where you can translate Dutch into English.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 29):
NEXT, i'd like to wait until something official as to the cause is announced. It could have been someone refuleing the a/c's fault, it could have been anything. But what i don't like is how, maybe just the media, some A.netters are hungry to take down an airline they havent been on, based ENTIRELY on what other people say, is it that easy to have your minds controlled?!

Relax! Nobody in this thread is hungry to take Onur Air down. People have their concerns. You can't deny that it is bad timing for Onur to have an incident like this, even though this is an incident that can happen to any airline.
 
airxliban
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:34 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 17):
they deserve to be let in the EU for adding 321s

What kind of BS is that? does MEA deserve to be in Europe doo, or US Airways for that matter? Even if Onur Air added A321s for the sake of sucking dick, why should that be a reason for Turkey to be added to the EU?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
a3xx900
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 37):
Even if Onur Air added A321s for the sake of sucking dick

LoL... errrrr?  butthead   Confused


Well, I had the pleasure to ride on some of their planes (A321, A320, A300, if I remember correctly). I never had the impression that Onur Air was a very good airline (unfriendly F/As; very VERY bad food; if you asked for another softdrink on a 3hr+ flight, you get unfriendly looks; dirty cabin; etc) but I always trusted them because I knew they received an Airbus Safety award.
But with the news we heard in the last few weeks I would not set foot on one of their aircraft anymore. False information and sensational journalism or not - their reputation went down the drain. I'm sorry for them, and I'm sorry that this happens to the beautiful country of Turkey.
But if they want to be an honoured and respected country and part of the EU, make sure your airlines are safe (now that MNG is under suspicion too).
After all, Onur means honor/pride.  old 
Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
 
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Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2289
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:17 pm

This page shows photos of the fuel spill:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2...roblemen_met_toestel_Onur_Air.html

Click on the pics to enlarge them - unfortunately they are protected and cannot be hotlinked (I cannot even get the URL!)
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
Icelandair
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:14 pm

RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:37 pm

Don't know about the safety issues but I flew Onur Air four times now, and two of the flights had unscheduled stops. One was for technical reasons (no details reported, A300) and one was unplanned refuellin as we were told (A300).
http://www.flugbegleiter.net/
 
OHLHD
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:45 pm

Well, to be honest, they receive much more attention d/t the latest probelms they had because everybody has an eye on them, but i do not defend them.

Rather I say that incase that it is their foult (again) they should be really banned for a longer period of time to get the problems fixed.
 
An225
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:16 pm

I wonder what this would do to their business in Israel.
After the incidents in Europe a leading Israeli newspaper (Yediot Ah'ronot) splashed the story all over. They were interested in the subject after an incident with another charter airlines from Turkey. This incident was with an A300 (the landing gear indicators was implying a malfunction with the locking mechanism) operated by Fly Air airlines.
IMO the Israeli people will fly with who ever give them the lowest fare, not being intimidated by small things like problematic safety records.

Cheers,

Uzi
 
An225
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 6:37 pm

RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:43 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Thread starter):
will this take Onur Air down for sure?

Not for sure, but this is not giving them any credit either

Quoting 1stspotter (Reply 27):
A movie showing jet fuel coming out as a stream from the righthand wing can be seen here

This looks bad. I wonder what they will find after the investigation
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:53 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 28):
Is this some sort of infection of naivety spreading through the a.net or is it just that the pro-Airbus cheerleading prevents you from sane thinking???

Orion is oft' incapable of sane/methodical and rational thinking.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
AMSSFO
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:17 am

Aircraft involved is TC-OAP, recently leased from ILFC, MSN 604 last flown for Pacific Airlines (Vietnam)

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anthony Cheng - HKAEC


(no pictures as TC-OAP in database yet)

According to the IVW there was a problem with the electronics regulating the balance of fuel. What caused this is still under investigation.
The plane returned empty to Turkey
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:28 am

Ok, I wouldn´t fly with MNG. I´ve seen the guys in action (maintenancewise) and it scared the hell out of me. I will not go into details due to legal reasons.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
virgin744
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 1999 5:51 pm

RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 45):
According to the IVW there was a problem with the electronics regulating the balance of fuel.

Maybe thats the reason for the leak - if the electronics were faulty, the plane could have been overfilled by the ground staff and the crew were not aware of the problem because of faulty electronic reading? So could it not be that what we have seen was that excess fuel being forced out by the plane. That would make sense...


virgin744
 
bennett123
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:43 am

Clearly there will need to be an investigation.

However, Onur Air seems to be very unlucky at present. Also bear in mind that whilst they may have less incidents than say AA or UA or BA, they have a lot less aircraft as well.

I remember an airline called Peach Air which used to operate Tristar's, who had a similar record of incidents. They did not last long after that.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Onur Air Incident... Again!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:30 pm

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 2):
Passengers all disembarked the plane while engines were already running...

Hows that possible.The Step ladders/Aerobridge is positioned after Shutdown.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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