aa777jr
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Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:09 am

Which a/c will FX chose to replace their 727 fleet? They have over 100 in service. I read they are currently looking for a replacement for their 727-100 and 727-200s.


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Apologies if this has been discussed.

Regards.
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DeltaWings
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:21 am

Perhaps a 737F? That would be the most logical replacement. Is there a 737-800F?


~DeltaWings
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N766UA
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
Is there a 737-800F

There isn't, but when FedEx retires the 727s there could be.
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aa777jr
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:26 am

Boeing better get to work on that if they already haven't!

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:30 am

Maybe when they launch the 737-900ER, they could maky a freighter version. That would be good.

~DeltaWings
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FlagshipAZ
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:33 am

Boeing tried to sell Fed Ex the 757F, when that line was drying up. Boeing was asking too much for the type, so Fed Ex declined, and the 757 line was closed. I believe Fed Ex is retiring all the 721s & some 722s, but some of the newer 722s will still be around awhile yet. Fed Ex got the last 15 727-200s assembled. IMO, the FAA should approve the 73G Combis for sale, and maybe Fed Ex would look at those, however Fed Ex loves the 2nd hand airframes...problem is that they're not enough of any one type available. Regards.
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ourboeing
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:34 am

FedEx usually uses ex-passenger aircraft so my guess would be 767? There are a whole lot of them sitting out in the desert.

OURBOEING
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:37 am

I know awhile back they were talking to US to get their 734's. I don't know if FedEx is still looking for 737's though. They won't get new ones though, for there are plenty of second hand ones available.

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blsbls99
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:37 am

I would assume the 737-300/400 would make a good replacement. Kitty Hawk and one of the Iceland carries have a couple already converted into freighters. And I believe there is good availability of these models on the second hand market.
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mauriceb
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:38 am

FedEx usually uses ex-passenger aircraft so my guess would be 767?

uwh yeah, that comment does 100% not make sense.... so you suggest they send an 767 on routes with not to high load factor, wich will mean about 60% of the craft wil be empty?

the 767 is way to big...

i think they should go for 737-300/400, there are enough of them in the desert, and even if it aren't enough frames, there will be comming more and more each year, wich doesn't matters because i think i can safely say they won't replace all 727 at one time...

[Edited 2005-06-01 19:44:07]
 
columba
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:40 am

Before 737NGs are being converted as freighters there are plenty of -300s and -400s flying around. So I think that some of the older ones will soon start a new life as freighters some of them already did :


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saab2000
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:43 am

It is my understanding that the 737 has a significantly lower maximum zero fuel weight than the 727. That is one reason why the 737 is not used much as a freighter.

I don't know if that is true or not, but I have heard it before.

If it is true, I don't know if it is a landing gear issue or if it is a floor loading issue. Both could probably be solved.
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columba
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:59 am

Maybe we will soon see the conversion of the first A320s into freighters after all the first one has just been scraped.
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jamesbuk
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:32 am

Surely united have got a few planes they would like to sell off to redeem them selves out of there bad debt problem and it fed-ex could buy what they have and convert the to cargo carriers, got to be cheaper than buying 100+ new planes
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FlagshipAZ
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:40 am

Don't forget all those US Airways 733s & 734s that will be on the market if the HP/US merger is approved. If US Airways wants capital from Airbus, the 737s will have to go. Maybe then Fed Ex will take a look at the 737 for its fleet. Regards.
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srbmod
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 11):
It is my understanding that the 737 has a significantly lower maximum zero fuel weight than the 727. That is one reason why the 737 is not used much as a freighter.

I don't know if that is true or not, but I have heard it before.

If it is true, I don't know if it is a landing gear issue or if it is a floor loading issue. Both could probably be solved.

Considering that the 737-200 has been used as a combi and a straight freighter (In fact, FX has operated several 737-200Cs for a time in the late 1970s-early 1980s), then any other of the 737 Classics shouldn't have any issues with being used as freighters. Probably the main reason why there aren't too many 737-300/400/500 freighters is that many airlines still have them in passenger service in large numbers and probably will be for the forseeable future. Very few 737 Classic operators have completely retired them from the fleet (One of the few I can think is F9).
 
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yyz717
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:30 am

The Fedex growth focus is on the international air shipment products and domestic deferred trucking within the US. Air shipments within the US are not a growth focus. Hence, we can only assume that US domestic air yields are not strong and/or the market is fairly mature. Hence, I would not expect a new-build aircraft (739x) to replace the 721/722 fleet.

I predict the older 721/722 to be progressively retired with the "thicker" markets upgrading from the 722 to the 312/313 which Fedex continues to add. The still leaves room for an eventual 722 replacement -- which is likely to be used 733/734 or 320F platforms (despite the lack of a 320F yet). The 752 and 762 are too large.

IMHO.
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fdxgirl
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:58 am

fedex used 737's back in the day before they had 727's in their fleet. its hard to say, if they get rid of the ole 727's i think they'd jump over to airbuses.
 
B744F
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:25 am

Yeah I'd say they will buy more airbuses from airlines looking to ditch theirs for newer models.
 
aa777jr
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:11 am

Could either the 737 or 767 be converted for freight? Wow, Airbus over Boeing for FX? Seriously? Why?
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CosmicCruiser
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:17 am

The 737 has been a rumour for yrs. but it has yet to be a reality. Anyone's guess is as good as the next one.
We did have 73s for a short time yrs. ago but they went away and didn't return.
 
B744F
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:29 am

Boeings offerings for a small freighter fleet are not as good as airbus. Boeing beats airbus on medium-long haul though
 
SATL382G
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:29 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
Perhaps a 737F?



Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 3):
Boeing better get to work on that if they already haven't!

There is certainly a combi variant of the 737-700...

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/c40/c40ainfo.html
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MissedApproach
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:44 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 15):
Very few 737 Classic operators have completely retired them from the fleet (One of the few I can think is F9).

Westjet & Canjet will soon. Canjet is switching over to the 737-500, while Westjet will use a mix of 737-600, -700 & -800s.
I couldn't say what FedEx will do, but I can imagine where a few of their 727s will go, like Cargojet & First Air. Maybe.  bouncy 
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CPDC10-30
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:37 am

Canjet is switching over to the 737-500

The -300, -400 and -500 are considered "Classic" 737s. The -100 and -200 are just called "initial version" by Boeing.

Has there ever been any interest by FedEx to convert the 722s to a 2-man cockpit (like the MD-10)? The airframe values are probably too low to make it worth it though...

737-400 and -300 freighter conversions would make by far the most sense, even if their capacity is a bit less.
 
LawnDart
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:39 am

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 11):
It is my understanding that the 737 has a significantly lower maximum zero fuel weight than the 727. That is one reason why the 737 is not used much as a freighter.

The 737 Classics (-300 and -400) do have lower zero fuel weights than the 727 series, and their performance degrades rapidly with increased payload. The 737NG doesn't have that problem, but those are newer airframes, and FedEx seems to prefer used.

DHL bought British Airways' fleet of 757s; do you think FedEx could hold out until U.S. domestic carriers start getting rid of theirs? Some of them (757s) are close to 20 years old. Their fuel burn is lower than the 727s, and you can pack in a bunch of overnight letters and fly them to anywhere from anywhere within the 48 states. UPS seems to like them.

As for smaller cities, what about a conversion for the CRJ? Payload wouldn't be that much of an issue, and CRJs will be available for 10 cents on the dollar in a couple of years, according to Michael Boyd.
 
ha763
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:51 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 21):
Boeings offerings for a small freighter fleet are not as good as airbus. Boeing beats airbus on medium-long haul though

Huh? The smallest Airbus built freighter is the A310. There aren't even converted A320s flying, so how can Airbus be better in the small freighter market?

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 5):
IMO, the FAA should approve the 73G Combis for sale,

FX doesn't need a combi and the 737-700F/QC is already certified. However, if an airline does want a 737NG combi, it would require a solid, fixed bulkhead seperating the pax from the cargo to be certified. BTW, this is exactly what AS was planning for their converted 737-400s. The converted 737-400 combis would have had a fixed configuration of 70 pax and 4 pallet spaces. No more changing configurations to increase or decrease pallet spaces. This is the only way the FAA will approve a new combi.
 
gigneil
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:03 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 5):
IMO, the FAA should approve the 73G Combis for sale

Combi? Never happen. Full freighter, sure.

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 5):
Fed Ex loves the 2nd hand airframes

Fedex is a leading purchaser of new aircraft. They took many, many new build DC-10s, launched the MD-11 (not just the F, the program), took many new build A300F4-600Rs, lots of 727Fs including the last many off the line, and is launching the A380F.

I agree with Other Neil's assessment that the US market is not a growth one for them, so they'll be more careful with the capex.

Quoting OURBOEING (Reply 6):
FedEx usually uses ex-passenger aircraft so my guess would be 767?

The 767 is a huge plane to replace a 727, don't you think?

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 11):
It is my understanding that the 737 has a significantly lower maximum zero fuel weight than the 727. That

It does, but, I don't think that to be relevant. FedEx needs the volume of the plane, not the gross uplift. Package freight is very light and less dense in relation to real freight.

The 733 is too small to replace a 727, however. The 734 might be fine. The A320 would be perfect.

Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
Maybe we will soon see the conversion of the first A320s into freighters after all the first one has just been scraped.

I agree with this. FX was a leading pusher of EADS Sogerma to develop a conversion plan, much of which was shelved around the 2001 decline of the economy and really shelved after 9/11.

I just wonder if the A320 is going to be available at a good price point. The market for them is still very, very hot. They may have to go the 733/734 route because of no other choice.

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 19):
Wow, Airbus over Boeing for FX?

Um, the mainstays of the FX fleet aren't Boeing. They operate huge numbers of DC-10, MD-10, MD-11, A300, and A310 aircraft, many of them new build. The only real Boeing they operate is the 727.

The word is that Fred Smith has no love for Boeing after a sour exchange some years back. Other words say it'd be a cold day in hell before he ordered another new Boeing aircraft. Of course, I can't personally confirm that.

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 25):
As for smaller cities, what about a conversion for the CRJ?

Jets just are not and never will be as efficient as turboprops on short stages, and cargo isn't time sensitive (when you're talking the 10 to 15 minute difference between a jet and a prop) nor does it care that its being carried on a prop. Props are also much much cheaper to acquire.

FedEx is building a very large fleet of ATR42 freighter aircraft, and I expect that to be their feeder mainstay going forward for smaller cities. It just makes good business sense.

N
 
scottieprecord
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:05 am

LawnDart: "what about a conversion for the CRJ?"

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe FX is beginning to use more ATRs for that area.

haha. Nevermind... Gigneil had me covered.  Smile

-Mic

[Edited 2005-06-02 04:08:31]
 
srbmod
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:40 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 25):
As for smaller cities, what about a conversion for the CRJ? Payload wouldn't be that much of an issue, and CRJs will be available for 10 cents on the dollar in a couple of years, according to Michael Boyd.

As already mentioned, FX is beginning to use ATR-42 freighters, and I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually start to use ATR-72s as well. Now what about a EMB-120 freighter? I could see them using them in markets too big for the Caravans but too small for the ATR.
 
teva
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:22 pm

The initial plan for FX was to replace 727s by A300 and 310s.
But those 2 planes found their own market, and 727s are still needed.
For the feeders, Fx tried to have a plane developped for them: the Ayres Loadmaster.
The next project was to use the same process to develop a turboprop capable of replacing the 727.
With the failure of the loadmaster development (the company collapsed), the project of the large turboprop has been dropped.
Today, the bes option is 733 or 734, since FX can use the same type of containers.
Teva
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HAWK21M
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:54 pm

Why not get STC for B734SFs
regds
MEL
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DAYflyer
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:32 am

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 22):
Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
Perhaps a 737F?



Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 3):
Boeing better get to work on that if they already haven't!

There is certainly a combi variant of the 737-700...

I wonder if they ever seriously have considered this option.
One Nation Under God
 
brucek
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:25 am

What US domestic routes utilize the B72's? And what does FX use from it's Paris hub currently for the European market?

Bruce.
 
LawnDart
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
Jets just are not and never will be as efficient as turboprops on short stages, and cargo isn't time sensitive (when you're talking the 10 to 15 minute difference between a jet and a prop) nor does it care that its being carried on a prop. Props are also much much cheaper to acquire.

I never said anything about short stages. And I understand that a 10 minute difference on a short segment isn't critical. My comment was in regard to smaller cities, but I should have clarified by stating "long, thin routes", where time becomes much more sensitive, especially to FedEx.

I realize FedEx (or a contractor) is using ATRs, but not sure if there are that many around - also, the used market appears to have picked up a little bit for them.

Mike Boyd believes (and I tend to agree) that the 50 passenger RJs have reached, or even passed their peak. If Independence goes belly-up, that's a chunk of potential conversions right there, and the price would certainly come down if a company approached the owners and offered to take the whole lot off their hands. Initial acquisition costs could even be lower than the larger ATR72.

I'm not technically savvy enough to know whether the CRJ could be converted, what type of performance penalty it would take, or if it would gross out (is that the term? Funny...) prior to bulk out. However, FedEx did start with the Falcon 20...
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting Teva (Reply 30):
For the feeders, Fx tried to have a plane developped for them: the Ayres Loadmaster.

There were serious talks between FedEx and Fokker once about the Fokker 60 as a feederplane. However, Fokker died and they went for the Ayres. After the dead of Fokker there were plans of a sketchy company called Forward Aircraft that wanted to restart the Fokker 50 & 60 production from Groningen airport in The Netherlands. They were aiming for the Fokker 50 & 60 only as a (military) utility plane and were also aiming at FedEx.

Fokker also once looked at a Fokker 100 freighter for a parcel hauler, but I don't know which one this was.

Cheers!  wave 
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tattvc
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:53 am

Ok all- Before all you people doubt my credibility, both my mom and dad fly for Fedex (or Fredex as we call it). Dad is a MD-11 Capitan and mom a DC-10 Capitan.

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
Perhaps a 737F? That would be the most logical replacement. Is there a 737-800F?

On the FX 737 note- there was a push a long time ago (10 years?) for fedex to get 737s. They painted one up in FX colors (any pictures?), trained a crew or two, then scrapped the entire plan.

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 4):
Maybe when they launch the 737-900ER, they could maky a freighter version. That would be good.
See above


Gigneil- what experience do you have with Fedex? You know quite a bit
[quote=Gigneil,reply=27]ATR42 freighter aircraft

 Wink

OK- on this whole thing- Fred Smith owns fedex*. Fred is a VERY greedy man (Fedex is making more money than it ever has in the history of the company, yet Fred wants all fedex employees (-excutives or course) to take a pay cut!), and will not retire an aircraft unless it is costing more money to fly than it is making, and the 727s are still making money (mom and dad both flew 727s w/fedex too). Same goes for the fleet. He (fred) made a very bad move "modifying" DC-10s to "MD-10s". My dad flew DC-10s (FX again, Capitan) and now flies the MD-10/MD-11. He loved flying the '10, as mom does. He hates flying the MD-10. They both agrees that the DC-10 is a much better airplane for pilots. But Fred doesn't care about the pilots, just his money.
Also, Fedex was going to buy the concord, among other things.

On the ATR note- they are being flown by a sub-carrier (they are as Air Wisconsin is to United) and could very well turn out just like fedex's 737s and concordes.

*When Fred was in high school, for a report he gave the idea for a company to his teacher. She said it would never work. That company is now Fedex.

Glad to inform,

TatTVC
"Your time is limited- don't waste it living someone else's life" -Steve Jobs
 
B744F
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:57 am

A CRJ as a cargo hauler? Yikes, it can barely haul passengers. Maybe with some rockets on the side like some modified hercules
 
brons2
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting TatTVC (Reply 36):
Ok all- Before all you people doubt my credibility, both my mom and dad fly for Fedex (or Fredex as we call it). Dad is a MD-11 Capitan and mom a DC-10 Capitan.

wow that's quite a family.

I assume they met on the job there at FX?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
LawnDart
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:54 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 37):
A CRJ as a cargo hauler? Yikes, it can barely haul passengers. Maybe with some rockets on the side like some modified hercules

I hate when people respond like this, but here goes: Do you have any data to back up your statement?

I'm not attacking your comment (I think it was intended as a joke); I'm being honest, and curious. As I stated in an earlier post, I'm not technically knowledgeable, so if you know something I wish you would share. CRJs actually can haul passengers - and for too far a distance for some peoples' liking.

I suspect that a CRJ in a package freighter conversion would be filled, or packed out, before it reached gross take-off weight. If the price of used CRJs drops in the next few years, and if they could haul a load a reasonable distance to smaller communities, it might make a conversion economically compelling.
 
Unicorn
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:17 am

The appropriate rreplacement for the 727F is a 757-200F or -200PCF.

They have a 15 pallet capacity, miuch better operating economics over the 727 (two crew, two fuel efficient engines, etc) and significanbt numbers are entering the pricing zone where they can be acquired and converted at reasonable costs.

Several of the lessors are doing just that, including ILFC, AWAS and Boullioun.

Unicorn
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:32 am

I have to say this is where UPS actually didn't follow Fed Ex and it really worked out well. The 757 PF launch was an excellent choice for UPS. These were all new airframes and we all know cargo carriers have much lower utilization than the passenger airlines. These aircraft will be with UPS for quite a number of years. Fed Ex chose 727-200's and 100's. The 757 may have cost more in aquiring, but who came out on top? 727 cost more in payroll with the 3 man crew, maint. and fuel cost. The 757PF has a lower operating cost than the 727. Not to mention the hush kits that had to be installed on the 727. UPS is retiring their 727-100 fleet. The 722 is long gone with UPS. The 757 is taking over the 727 roles and the A300 is taking over the 757/DC-8 roles.

Somebody mentioned the fixed bulkhead. UPS has been using them for years. They allow one more position over the 9 g net.

I seem to remember that Fed Ex was negotiating with US Airways regarding the 733's. They were close and the deal fell through.

I would guess and say that with the 787 coming. You will see a lot of 75's on the market. I'd look for those to be converted for Fed Ex.

I have a question for the Fed Ex guys. Why do they still count the Ayres in their fleet when Ayres is long gone? My son has a Fed Ex card that lists their fleet. It's dated 2005 and has their total fleet with a breakdown of type. The Ayres is listed and counted.
 
tattvc
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 38):
I assume they met on the job there at FX?

No they met teaching flight school at the Ann Arbor (Michigan) airport for UofM. Thanks for the complement!

TatTVC
"Your time is limited- don't waste it living someone else's life" -Steve Jobs
 
pilotsmoe
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
Maybe we will soon see the conversion of the first A320s into freighters after all the first one has just been scraped.

They seem to be loving the A310. They have alot of them. The a310 is probably better for cargo, anyway. and they're cheaper second hand  Smile
 
trevd
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:21 pm

Quoting Unicorn (Reply 40):
The appropriate rreplacement for the 727F is a 757-200F or -200PCF.

They have a 15 pallet capacity, miuch better operating economics over the 727 (two crew, two fuel efficient engines, etc) and significanbt numbers are entering the pricing zone where they can be acquired and converted at reasonable costs.

Several of the lessors are doing just that, including ILFC, AWAS and Boullioun.

Absolutely the right move !! More capability, lower costs than the 72F. No scribe mark issues like the 73's and due to the average hour:cycle ratios when in pax service, the 757's offer a longer useful life going forward than you are likely to get with the 737's.

Acquisition costs may be a bit of a problem. 757 values have been going up and a good candidate conversion a/c is now in the low teen's ($13-$15M) for a early 90's vintage airplane in good 1/2 time condition. 737's may offer a lower acquisition and conversion cost though.

A310's are still an interesting play. Dirt cheap as overall residual values are terrible. Can easily get a 10 year old A310 for about $5M to $8M and have a cheap freighter on your ramp for about $10M. Maintenance costs will be high, but at such a low acquisition cost it's a price you should be willing to pay.

Regardless of what FX does, look for them to pick-up several more A310's in the next year or 2. Bet they go for a couple of the ex-SIA a/c that will soon be surfacing on the market very quickly.

One of the lone voices out here that think the A320 may be the narrowbody dark-horse here as a possible freighter conversion candidtae. Residual values for earlier models are following the A310 precedent - i.e. very poor. Several recent transactions of early vintage airplanes in the $8M range (interesting while comparable 734's are still at $10-12M). Not to mention we're starting to see A320's being scrapped for part-out values in the $4-5M range. So if someone can bring a $2-3M conversion to the market, adding a heavy check and fresh engines can get you a good airplane for about $12M on ramp.

Have heard rumbling's however, that the A320 is not very structurally efficient to begin with would need significant beefing up of the structure resulting to carry even a mediocre payload.

And for TatTVC:

Quoting TatTVC (Reply 36):
*When Fred was in high school, for a report he gave the idea for a company to his teacher. She said it would never work. That company is now Fedex.

Have your parents check their FedEx lore book...believe this was Fred's B-school (MBA) project - not high school...but the outcome was the same. Fred says he got a D on the paper.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting Unicorn (Reply 40):
The appropriate rreplacement for the 727F is a 757-200F or -200PCF.

For some cargo airlines maybe, but not for Fedex.

The 752F is too close in capacity to the 312F that Fedex already operates. The 752F is also too large to replace the still-sizable fleet of 721F's in the Fedex fleet. A 752F will also leave too much of a capacity gap over the ATR-42/72 fleet.

The 721/722F fleet at Fedex serves the mature and not-overly-profitable US overnight shipment market. Best replacement solution is a low-capital same-capacity 733/734F or 320F, not the larger and more expensive 752F.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:04 am

One problem about the A310. There isn't that many good airframes left to completely replace the Fed Ex 72 fleet.
 
LawnDart
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:00 pm

Quoting TrevD (Reply 44):
Have heard rumbling's however, that the A320 is not very structurally efficient to begin with would need significant beefing up of the structure resulting to carry even a mediocre payload.

Interesting point. I have no idea what the cycle limit is on the A320 compared to the 757.

Reminds me (actually, I have to dig this out of the recesses of my mind)...didn't the 727 freighter conversion have some sort of AD issued a couple of years back when it was discovered the cargo door mod wasn't structurally sound?

How do the 757 mods stack up, as far as weight penalty is concerned?
 
HermansCVR580
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:27 am

Like they say nothing can truly replace a 727 lead slead Smile Too bad they are gas guzzlers. Boeing made a great plane when they built the 727!!! Who would have thought 40 years later it would still be flying? Its the jet version of a DC-3.
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
pilotpip
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RE: Fed Ex 727 Replacement?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 37):
A CRJ as a cargo hauler? Yikes, it can barely haul passengers. Maybe with some rockets on the side like some modified hercules

A little CRJ history:

Just prior to deregulation in the late 1970s, a cargo company went to various manufactures with a request. They wanted an aircraft to upgrade their current fleet with. The parameters were that it had to be capable of carrying a pallet and capable of expanding if the deregulation of air carriers happened. That aircraft was the Canadair Challenger 600. The precurser to the CRJ. The airline was none other than Fed Ex. The plane was developed, but Fred found a bunch of 727s cheap and bought those instead. Canadair decided to turn the 600 into a bizjet and later stretched it to the CRJ.
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