Tan Flyr
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UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:25 am

Just was wondering fellow A.Netters thoughts/ opinions/ speculation of to which carrier(s) the UA 767 being returned to the lessors in the next few days will go to?


There was talk of SAS needing more lift and AC I believe also...but I asked for your opinions!

Thanks!
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:32 am

AC, TZ, CO, NA, and a few other airlines are looking for B-767-300ERs. Many prefer those with GE engines, and I believe the (soon to be) ex-UA B-763ERs have P&Ws. I don't think the lease companies that own these airplanes will have problems getting them onto new leases and flying again, soon.
 
AA7573E
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:32 am

AA might grab them up. How perfectly ironic that would be.
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mauriceb
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:33 am

Just was wondering fellow A.Netters thoughts/ opinions/ speculation of to which carrier(s) the UA 767 being returned to the lessors in the next few days will go to?

i think they will go to Air Canada, because weren't they planning to add 1 or 2 more 767's? also see Zoom, Martinair and Transaero picking one up..
 
LUV4JFK
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:33 am

SAS better jump on it instead of looking for aircraft. I bet their feeling pretty dumb that they didn't keep a couple of 763's. It's not like fleet commonality is a big deal to them.

LUV4JFK
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HAL
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:11 am

I know Hawaiian is looking intently at them. They just emerged from bankruptcy and are desperately looking for more 763's to use for expansion.

HAL
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clickhappy
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:16 am

I would say that Hawaiian would be the most likely choice for at least 2-3 of these planes.
 
jacobin777
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:30 am

How about LOT? They might need those 767's if they are going to go with the 787, or is there some kind of incompatability?
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TokyoNarita
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:53 am

It would be funny but can Delta snag some of these?

Delta has some B767s with P&Ws. Pretty sure they are different model though.

With their B767-200s retiring...wouldn't it be the cheapest way to maintain capacity?...and they could always use more B767s.

I know it's a long shot but who knows.

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2005-06-03 00:06:55]
 
SAS_A330-300
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting LUV4JFK (Reply 4):
SAS better jump on it instead of looking for aircraft. I bet their feeling pretty dumb that they didn't keep a couple of 763's. It's not like fleet commonality is a big deal to them.

After the CPH-IAD schedule last winter I wouldn't think so. SAS has currently no plans to put any new aircraft into their fleet.
You know the gear is up when it takes full power to taxi
 
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yyz717
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting AA7573E (Reply 2):
AA might grab them up.

AA won't take them. AA is a GE 767 operator.

I can see AC taking them. Keeping them in the STAR Alliance family will benefit both UA and AC. If/when UA returns to better health, they can perhaps more easily return to UA service if a partner airline has snagged them.
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Crosswind
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:30 am

These United B767s are a lot less marketable than you might think because of their PW engines.

A lot of carriers are on the lookout for B767-300ERs at the moment, but they want them with GE CF6s. For many Boeing operators it's a stop gap until the B787 arrives so they aren't willing to order a new aircraft that's about to be obsolete. When a GE-powered aircraft becomes available it's snapped up straight away by another operator...

On the other hand there have always been PW -300ERs on the market throughout the recent used 767-300ER drought because most operators looking of aircraft want the GE engine, there are several PW-powered examples sitting on BAT, Speednews and Plane Trading at the moment. Given that most potential customers have a fairly small 767 fleet they won't want to run with 2 engine types.

Best bet may be someone like ATA building a fleet from scratch but I suppoese it depends on what sort of maintenance/support package they can put together with PW, not to mention what sort of lease rate they'll be able to negotioate bearing in mind the lessor has just had to reposess them from one airline operating under Ch11.

Regards
CROSSWIND

[Edited 2005-06-03 00:37:49]
 
EddieDude
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:31 am

I am sure that if AM were not so busy getting more 737NG's and finalizing the lease of 2 or 3 772ER's (delivery 2006), it would go for at least a couple. That way, it could increase frequencies to SCL to 1 daily from the current 6 daily and to GRU, and would be able to use -300's only to South America freeing the -200's for the flights to MAD and CDG also increasing those routes. Sadly, AM's widebody fleet will not expand at all until it receives the 772ER's next year, unless MX transfers the 763ER it is leasing from SK to AM.
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whitehatter
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 11):
These United B767s are a lot less marketable than you might think because of their PW engines.

That's the major problem. 763ER users seem to have a marked preference for the CF6 engined variety.

They could go literally anywhere however. Take the blinkers off for a moment and there are potential customers in places like Russia or Asia who would be interested, smaller operators rather than the majors or flag carriers.

Plenty of potentials if the price is right. Condition should not be an issue.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
uaord2000
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:42 pm

As much as I hate to see these planes leave the UA fleet, I see TZ acquiring these jets. The only issue is that the lessors are more than likely skeptical taking from one bankrupt airline and giving them to another bankrupt airline. Who knows, but I will sure miss my ORD-EZE trips. Maybe I'll just transfer to Washington.

-J
 
Unicorn
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:56 pm

Air China, Vietnam Airlines, SkyService, LAN, Air Europa, Nationwide, Hawaiian and a number of other airlines are actively looking for additional leased 767s for the next few years while waiting to take delivery of their currently ordered 787s / A350s or consider their options on which way they go on the 787 / A350 decision.

Many lessors will be reluctant to put 10-12 year old 767s into an American legacy carrier given many of them are in Chapter 11, just coming out of C11 or likely to go in to divest themselves of their pension obligations.

Besides overseas 767 operators don't have Chapter 11 to dive into to screw the lessors and are often as profitable as the majors in the US.

Unicorn
 
ikramerica
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:57 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 6):
I would say that Hawaiian would be the most likely choice for at least 2-3 of these planes.

This topic was also in the repo man thread, but I will restate my answer here...

Hawaiian needs planes to launch JFK, Japan, others. They would also like to add another Vegas route at least on the weekends, as LAS is the number one destination for Hawaii residents (#2 being Disneyland).

Hawaiian uses only 717s locally (obviously), and 763ERs overseas. Hawaiian 763ERs have P&W engines.

Thus, Hawaiian is a likely customer for as many as they can afford to lease, and considering that few others use P&W and want more, they may get favorable terms...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Planesmart
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:58 pm

Don't rule out that some / all may return to UA.
 
ACB777
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:05 pm

Would the UA 763ERs have commonality with the AC 763ER's? I know AC has both P&W 763ER aircraft and GE 763ER aircraft, the latter acquired from the Canadian merger.
 
tspencer83
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:09 pm

Alot of people have said that airlines prefer the GE-engined 767s over the PWs. Can someone explain why this is? Thanks
 
ikramerica
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:00 pm

I'm sure someone can, but Hawaiian chose the PWs, and their jets are relatively new (first delivery 10/2001). They chose PW for their engine performance and the service contract as a whole.

http://www.utc.com/press/releases/2002-02-07.htm
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B742
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:02 pm

I hope HA gets some of these aircrafts!

Is NA a GE or PW operator?

Rob!
 
Simes
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:00 am

What's to say they can't be leased on favourable terms for an airline, forgot the type of lease it's called  boggled 
but basically the lease company's responsible for maintainence etc.
 
ha763
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RE: UA 767's Returned To Lessors- Who Will Grab Them?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:55 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
They chose PW for their engine performance and the service contract as a whole.

Not exactly. HA got the PW's because they were already selected for the first 3 767s they leased from Ansett Worldwide. These 3 planes were already being built and Ansett didn't have a leasee yet.