misbeehavin
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Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:45 am

Beware the US pre-clearance in Ireland

So, I just returned from a Memorial Day trip to Ireland. I experienced the INS pre-clearance in DUB on the way back and this is what this report is about.

Two words: Lines galore!

Line 1 – Pre check-in line
Before the actual check-in, there’s this Irish dude standing at a makeshift counter with a handheld device. You’ve got to wait for him to ask you your name and see your ticket. He then enters some information into the device. I’ve no idea what that does.

Line 2 – Check-in line
The usual line for check-in.

Line 3 – Security line
A massive, massive line that snakes around and around the bowels of Dublin Airport. Feels like I’m back in America already because I have to remove my shoes, belt, watch and take the laptop out of its bag. Place everything in plastic trays – just like the beloved TSA.
And there’s no separate line for premium / elite passengers.  mad  hissyfit 

Line 4 – Pre-INS line
Once through security, there’s a few minutes walk to the B gates, from where all flights to America depart. Here, there’s another counter with another line. This time, the woman is checking to see if you have filled out the Customs and Immigration forms. A ton of people had not, which wasn’t surprising because the people at check-in never told anyone they would need to do this in advance.  crazy  Most passengers do these forms on the plane and that’s what they expected to do here as well.
If your forms aren’t completed, you’re turned away and sent to complete them and join the line again. At the end.  crazy 
No matter that the next line, for Immigration, is even longer and slower than the security line.  crazy 

Line 5 – INS line
4 US-bound flights departing around the same time. 3 Immigration desks open. INS agents dawdling and talking on their cell phones. Imagine the horror.
This line just went on and on and on and took forever. All the while, the DL agents are going spastic on the PA system: “Flight 128 to Atlanta is closing at gate B32”. How? There are around 50 people still in the damn INS line!

Line 6 – Boarding line (at the gate area)
Even though the flight was closing (closed?), there’s still a big line at the boarding gate.

Line 7 – Security line (in the jetway)
Agent: “Did security ask you some questions already?”
Me: “No.”
Agent: “Who packed your bag?”
Me: “Me.”
Agent: “Was your bag with you at all times?”
Me: “Yes”

And so on.
Apparently, if I had said I had already been asked these questions, they wouldn’t have asked again.  smirk 

Line 8 – Waiting-for-people-to-clear-the-aisles line
 banghead 


To add to that, it's not like arriving in ATL on an international flight is a breeze. ATL has got to have the worst designed international arrivals procedure in the history of the world. banghead 

Sure we didn't have to wait for immigration since we did all that waiting in line in Ireland. But it's still a massive pain:
Line 9 – Wait to deplane
Line 10 – Wait until your bags finally show up
Line 11 – Wait in line to go through customs
Line 12 – Wait in line to dump your bags back on the belt
Line 13 – Wait in line for security (remove shoes, belt, laptop…)
Line 14 – Wait in line for the train
Line 15 – Wait for your bags to show up again in the main claim area


End verdict:  thumbsdown 
Pre-clearance is of no benefit at all to the passenger. If I absolutely have to wait in endless lines, I’d rather wait at the end of the trip, so I don’t have to worry about missing the flight. I have flown into ATL from other foreign cities. CDG-ATL, for example, was far less painful than DUB-ATL. Though the ATL end of the deal is always a torture.

Just like I said in the beginning: Beware the US pre-clearance in Ireland!
 
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Vasu
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:50 am

Ouch! To me it always sounded like a simple procedure... thank god I've never done it!
 
Sabena332
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:37 am

Sounds like a real pain and judging from your description I would say that pre-clearance in DUB is rather a disadvantage.

Patrick
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EnviroTO
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:08 am

Thank goodness pre-clearance in Canada isn't that bad.
 
COSPN
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:31 am

I Dont Inderstand they dont Inspect ur Bags Like in Canada so you can Arrive as a "Domestic" Pax ???
 
Seamus
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:33 am

I have not had the same experience. Have only done DUB-ORD direct once, (usually transit through LHR), about two years ago, and it wasn't bad. I especially enjoyed zipping through immigration at ORD on the return.

Regards,
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting Vasu (Reply 1):
To me it always sounded like a simple procedure

Sounded that way to me too Vasu. In reality, after having experienced it yesterday, not so simple!

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 2):
Sounds like a real pain and judging from your description I would say that pre-clearance in DUB is rather a disadvantage.

Patrick, it's most definitely not an advantage to the passengers - at least that's what I concluded after a horrible day. And arriving in ATL doesn't help matters one bit. Only makes them much worse.

Quoting Seamus (Reply 5):
I have not had the same experience. Have only done DUB-ORD direct once, (usually transit through LHR), about two years ago, and it wasn't bad. I especially enjoyed zipping through immigration at ORD on the return.

Maybe I just had the misfortune of DUB on a bad day, I don't know. But it's not an experience I'd like to repeat, that's for sure. Next time, if I'm ever in Ireland again, I think I'll connect through CDG or something!
 
miaskies
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:18 am

Quoting Misbeehavin (Thread starter):
And there’s no separate line for premium / elite passengers.

Must be only DUB, because everytime I have flown on AA out of MIA and even SFO they have "Elite Security Entrance" Lines for AA First Class, Business and AAdvantage (gold + ) members...


Well I guess I would rather make the line at DUB before departing to the U.S., that way you get to the U.S. and your ready to go!
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:22 am

Gosh, you should have connected in SNN and made the trip. It is a breeze there. If you have a U.S. passport, you go through before everyone else. Of course some do not like it, but it is some rule or something they have. It suited me fine.

Hope you had fun in DUB!

M
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:25 am

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 7):
Must be only DUB, because everytime I have flown on AA out of MIA and even SFO they have "Elite Security Entrance" Lines for AA First Class, Business and AAdvantage (gold + ) members...

Well I guess I would rather make the line at DUB before departing to the U.S., that way you get to the U.S. and your ready to go!

Many airports have separate security lines for Premium or Elite passengers. Hell, if ATL didn't have one, I'd probably miss every single Monday morning flight!  Smile
I was surprised DUB doesn't have one.

As for being ready to go when arriving in the US from Ireland, that's what I thought it would be too. But, reality turned out to be very different.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:29 am

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 9):
reality turned out to be very different.

This is so because the Irish refused to permit US Customs PFI in addition to Immigration PFI at the facilities in Dublin and Shannon. There is a restriction on the value of items that can be sold (eg. in Duty Free stores) after completing Customs PFI and the revenue lost to the airport by denying those sales is substantial. Hence, the PFI facility at Irish airports is a half-clearance deal where you can go shopping but still have to clear customs at the actual POE.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ikramerica
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:31 am

why do you have to go through security again in Atlanta to get to baggage claim?

Also, it's not called INS anymore. It's DHS, right?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:48 am

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 10):
This is so because the Irish refused to permit US Customs PFI in addition to Immigration PFI at the facilities in Dublin and Shannon. There is a restriction on the value of items that can be sold (eg. in Duty Free stores) after completing Customs PFI and the revenue lost to the airport by denying those sales is substantial. Hence, the PFI facility at Irish airports is a half-clearance deal where you can go shopping but still have to clear customs at the actual POE.

That's interesting since the Irish seem to have given in to every other demand, including security and immigration.

And speaking of immigration, here's another little tidbit from my trip.

My outbound routing was ATL-CDG-LCY. And not once was I asked by a government agent to show my passport. In fact, the only time I showed my passport to anyone was at check in and to board the plane. There did not seem to be an immigration desk at LCY at all, so I basically sneaked in and out of the UK without Her Majesty's Government ever knowing I was ever even there!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
why do you have to go through security again in Atlanta to get to baggage claim?

Also, it's not called INS anymore. It's DHS, right?

You will have to ask the ATL airport planners to answer that. I have tried, but have not been able to come up with any valid reason. Security at DUB or FRA, for example, is way better than security at BMI or FSD.

And since the new name of the INS is long and convoluted, I'm sticking with the old one!
 
Gilligan
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:03 am

Wow, I went DUBEWR last July and breezed right through. Granted I work for an airline so they don't usually waste a lot of time on me but at both ends, DUB and EWR it was just as fast as you please. Of course it also helps when you are sitting in 1 seat from the door!  bigthumbsup 

Also, samething here at IAH. When you come in from an international flight you have to go through security all over again. Lot of people get upset at that since they feel they've gotten the run around enough by going through customs and now they are feeling like they are really running behind to catch their connector.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
magyar
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:08 am

This is ridicoulous! I wonder what the
US would do if another country asked
for preclearance at US airports.
I just don't see what is the deal in this
"preclearance'' for Ireland or Canada.
 
airlinelover
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting Misbeehavin (Thread starter):
And there’s no separate line for premium / elite passengers.

Why must you elites always whine when there is not a seperate line for you? Just because you fly a lot does NOT mean you are better then anyone else..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 13):
Also, samething here at IAH. When you come in from an international flight you have to go through security all over again.

You have to do the same at ORD as well, but only if you're connecting to another flight. And I guess it's because you have to exit the terminal and then go to your departing terminal landside. Is that the case in IAH as well?

In ATL, it doesn't matter if you're connecting or if you end your journey here. Everyone needs to go through security again, even if you just want to exit the damn airport.  crazy 

Quoting Magyar (Reply 14):
This is ridicoulous! I wonder what the
US would do if another country asked
for preclearance at US airports

I wouldn't like this concept if I were the "other" country. But, to be fair, I believe it is a reciprocal agreement, where Canada and Ireland are free to position their immigration officers for preclearance at American airports if they want.
 
2H4
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:27 am

That first post could be an advertisement for Netjets.

 biggrin 


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
globetrekker
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:33 am

We at Aruba (AUA) have US pre-clearance too. Makes traveling to the USA much more easier, but a pain when handling US bound flights, due to all the paperwork you have to hand in at a specific time, like General Declarations and API.

Globe Trekker
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ikramerica
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:41 am

Is the Ireland thing new? Most other countries signed pre-clearance treaties with the Kennedy Administration, IIRC. I really don't know whether it is easier, but my uncle worked the lines in Toronto for a few years in the 70, so it kept him working. Then he moved to the lines at IAH, then LAX.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Venezuela747
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:53 am

GLobbeTrekker,

I did pre-clerance in AUA and it was a breeze, they sure have changed the airport from, the first time I went there 1997 to the last time 2001. AUA has both customs and INS clearance, it was so nice landing at MIA and not having to go throguh all the lines and hassel in MIA
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
globetrekker
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:12 pm

Quote:
GLobbeTrekker,

I did pre-clerance in AUA and it was a breeze, they sure have changed the airport from, the first time I went there 1997 to the last time 2001. AUA has both customs and INS clearance, it was so nice landing at MIA and not having to go throguh all the lines and hassel in MIA

Glad to hear that. AUA paid a lot of money to implement pre-clearance at the airport. Everything had to be build to the specifications of customs and INS.
The whole reasoning is to make thing easier for American tourists, as most tourist to AUA come from North America.
The big players here are AA with flights from SJU, JFK, BOS and MIA, CO from EWR and IAH, US from CLT, PHL and BOS and DL & Song from ATL and JFK. Not to mention the countless charters like UPS, Apple, Ryan International, ATA, NA etc. etc.

Americans really seem to appreciate this "extra" service.......

Globe Trekker
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
ACDC8
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:39 pm

What I don't understand about your story is that if you were pre-cleared in Ireland, why would you have to go through customs in the US? If you're pre-cleared, then you're pre-cleared. After you arrive at you destination, pick up your bags and go! Or am I missing something here?
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kevindca
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:18 pm

It's a partial clear, ACDC8. You go through immigration only so you can duty-free shop to your hearts content and deal with that in the US, as B747-437B mentioned. Half-clearance such as that in Ireland makes no sense to me. What a waste of space at the airport, a waste of manpower, needless expense all around. Oh well, maybe it's good in that it avoids those "no-fly-list diversions", lol!
 
ACDC8
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:23 pm

Quoting KevinDCA (Reply 23):
It's a partial clear, ACDC8. You go through immigration only so you can duty-free shop to your hearts content and deal with that in the US,

OK I see. I thought it was the same like the pre-clearance from Canada to the US. Thanks.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
MAH4546
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting Magyar (Reply 14):
I just don't see what is the deal in this
"preclearance'' for Ireland or Canada.

Pre-clearance in Ireland and Canada is very different. The pre-clearance that you have in Canada (and Bermuda, Aruba, and two airports in the Bahamas - Nassau and Freeport) means that when the flight lands in the US, it arrives as a domestic flight. There is absolutley no immigration procedures to be done.
a.
 
SLC1
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:19 pm

I have several times done pre-clearance AUA, YVR, YYC, YYZ and must say that I enjoy it, especially if I have a transfer later. While AUA pre-clearance was a long procedure, it's worth it not having to deal with it in ATL. As for the argument that if the same thing were to happen in the US, etc.,etc. doesn't necessarily work, because if an enormous amount of US passengers were bound for a certain country (as is the case in Canada and the Caribbean) I'd like to think we'd accept it.
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dstc47
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:43 pm

Preclearance in Ireland is, for non US citizens in particular, a huge benefit over clearance at point of entry.

Not alone is it usually faster, less bad tempered and more predictable than in the USA, but it is done in "dead" time when you have checked in and are kicking about the airport anyhow. All in all a good deal.

However it is less fun now, as the space available in DUB in particular, is very limited (Read umpteen posts in relation to Terminal facilities in DUB, if you want to know more about that) and prone to facility /gate congestion.

An added problem is concentration of departing flights at DUB into a narrow time band, with various EI, DL, CO, US, and now AA, services all trying to use the same facility in the same part of the day, after which nothing whatever happens. Some of those go to SNN, where similar bunching happens, but the overscale airport facilities in SNN allow much more space for preclearance.

As all these flights will be full, in Y and C class, and predominantly with non US citizens who take up more time, and often with youngish adults.

(One of the few advantages of getting on in years, is that the INS is then rather less suspicious of you as a potential economic migrant, all other things being equal).

Staffing can be very low too, 2/3 agents out front for non US citizens, 2 for US (+crew) last time I used it. If one goes off to deal with a difficult case, well that is one agent per line for a time.

Add to that the new fingerprinting / photo and what seems to be a slow computer system, and it has got to be way slower than in the past.

One other advantage is that the aircraft, if delayed, may make up some time over the Atlantic, whereas similar congestion at the port of entry may cause you to miss even generously timed connections.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:07 pm

Quoting Dstc47 (Reply 27):
Not alone is it usually faster, less bad tempered and more predictable than in the USA, but it is done in "dead" time when you have checked in and are kicking about the airport anyhow. All in all a good deal.

However it is less fun now, as the space available in DUB in particular, is very limited (Read umpteen posts in relation to Terminal facilities in DUB, if you want to know more about that) and prone to facility /gate congestion.

Ditto with that - worked at SNN for years and it alsways made things so much quicker. However, at peak times, and in particular at DUB, it can be a nightmare. But 9 months of the year it's easy.

7LBAC111
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Cory6188
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:24 pm

How does it work upon arrival into the US if you still have to go through customs? Do they wave arriving Ireland passengers past the immigration counters, do you show them that you have already been stamped into the US, or what?
 
phollingsworth
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
why do you have to go through security again in Atlanta to get to baggage claim?

Because there is currently no way for you to exit the airport without going through the secure area. When you go through Customs you have access to checked luggage which may contain items that are prohibited on passengers and in their carryon luggage. Therefore, if you have to go back into the air-side area, either to catch another flight or, in the case of ATL & CVG, exit the airport you will have to re-clear security. ATL is going through the process of eliminating this burden by constructing an Eastern terminal for the airport. When concourse E was planned the O&D traffic from international flights did not justify the added expense of having two immigration and customs facilities similar to that they have at IAD.

Unfortunately the new terminal will not be finished until late next year at the earliest.
 
Gilligan
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:38 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 29):
How does it work upon arrival into the US if you still have to go through customs?

In EWR they just waved us past the immigrations boothes and on into the area where your luggage arrives. You still have to go past the last line of customs agents to declare anything but it definitely speeds things up at the U.S. end. I would have missed making an earlier connection if not for that.

Yes, you still have to clear security at both EWR and IAH after exiting customs. As noted above, this is because you have had access to your checked luggage which is not security screened and may contain a prohibited item. I don't understand why you would have to clear security at ATL if your leaving the airport unless you have to traverse a security zone to get to the exit which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I haven't been through ATL though since the late 70's when I was in the service so I have not had the experience of the new terminal system. I have such fond memories of deplaning at the far end of one wing of Hartsfield only to find my connection was at the far end of the other far wing and I was given the generous amount of 20 minutes to make the flight! lol Ahhh but I was young then and OJ Simpson was still a role model! lol

[Edited 2005-06-03 15:55:13]
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:54 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 29):
How does it work upon arrival into the US if you still have to go through customs? Do they wave arriving Ireland passengers past the immigration counters, do you show them that you have already been stamped into the US, or what?

You just walk past the immigration counters, along one side. There's no need to show anyone anything, as there are usually a couple of agents pointing the way.
Then you go downstairs to International Baggage Claim, where you get to wait until your bags show up on the belt. This is followed by customs. Since your customs form is already stamped in Dublin, the customs agent usually just waves you through.
After that, if you end your journey in ATL, you place your checked bags on another belt ("Delta and Air France only please") and prepare to go through security.
Since I've never connected from an international flight in ATL, I'm not sure what connecting passengers need to do. Possibly something similar.

It's all just a massive pain.
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting Dstc47 (Reply 27):
However it is less fun now, as the space available in DUB in particular, is very limited (Read umpteen posts in relation to Terminal facilities in DUB, if you want to know more about that) and prone to facility /gate congestion.

This is what the latest edition of Business & Finance magazine (an Irish publication) had to say about Dublin Airport and Aer Rianta:

"Building and expanding airports is an expensive job that requires detailed planning and a clear idea of exactly what is needed. Yet current Irish debate suggests they are as difficult as building the pyramids or mapping ley lines in the dark ages.

"Anyone following the Dublin Airport second terminal saga would be forgiven for concluding that the development of airport facilities must be one of the most difficult tasks known to man - on a par with manned space travel to Mars. Incredibly, similar facilities to the one that should already be in Dublin are popping up right across the globe. Some are awe-inspiring, some less so, but at least they are not infinitely trapped in next week's Cabinet meeting agenda where ideology is more important than the simple needs of passengers."

The article goes on with a short paragraph about a number of other airports across the world.

Quoting Dstc47 (Reply 27):
One other advantage is that the aircraft, if delayed, may make up some time over the Atlantic, whereas similar congestion at the port of entry may cause you to miss even generously timed connections.

You're probably right about that. I based my conclusion on my own experience, which did not involve having to connect in ATL.

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 28):
Ditto with that - worked at SNN for years and it alsways made things so much quicker. However, at peak times, and in particular at DUB, it can be a nightmare. But 9 months of the year it's easy.

SNN, as has been pointed out, is another matter. As for DUB, I guess I picked it on a particularly bad day. However, immigration aside, security is quite the nightmate as well. It seemed like the line would never end!
 
drinkstrolley
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:07 am

Although not totally relevant, there was recently a incident at Dublin airport where the press made a complete mockery of security with undercover reporters etc etc.

Since then, the whole of DUB is a nightmare.

I flew BOH-DUB and there was a queue for passport control (I´ve never shown my passport once when flying from UK which is about 15 times a year for the last ten years) and then subsequently flew DUB-LHR-AGP last Tuesday (get some summer sun!!!) and was told to remove my boots (I´ve had them looked at before but never x-rayed!!) and told to remove my belt. I had a very baggy pair of combat trousers on and they nearly fell down!!!

I´m not sure which paper exposed the place as a mess but I´ll find out and post a link here if there is one.

Adios!!
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:11 am

Wow sounds pretty bad for you. I travel to Ireland at least once a month on business and have found Dublin Airport and the US Pre-Clearance to be a breeze. Maybe you encountered a bad day. I still think it's great. Shannon is even better. International travel in general involves formalities - just a part of the travel experience.

The pre-clearance in Ireland is designed for the benefit of the US Immigration and the airlines and not for passenger convenience. Because Irish citizens do no need a visa to enter the US for tourist visits, many Irish citizens who intend to work in the US try to enter the US illegally on a Tourist Visa waiver. Due to the large amounts of Irish attempting to enter the US for work on a tourist visa being denied entry, it saves everyone time and money not to have to fly them back on the same aircraft they just arrived on. It also saves the person being denied entry a roundtrip Atlantic flight in 24 hours.
 
apodino
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:26 am

I have read a lot of complaining about the ATL international arrivals and I will give you guys some background on this.

Before Concouse E was built, International Arrivals were Handled at the T gates. When it was realized that they didn't have sufficient room to handle all the international arriving passengers they had to build a new international concourse. The only place left in the airport where this could be placed was on the East side. What they built there is one of the finest international arrival facilities in the US IMO. I went through there coming in from LGW once and breezed through with no wait. The downside to this location is that the main terminal is on the other side of the airport, and you have to use the underground train to get there, which is in a secure area. Because they don't want prohibited Items in a secure area, which can happen when you have access to checked baggage, passengers have to recheck their bags and claim them in the main terminal. There are plans to open a new international terminal on the east side, which would allow passengers who are staying in atlanta to exit the terminal without the other difficulties involved. Not sure the status on this.

I noticed ATL is singled out, but other US airports have the same setup. SEA, CVG, MCO, and PIT come to mind. IAD has separate arrival halls for connecting and terminating passengers. BOS and ORD and soon DFW have all international Arrivals in one terminal, and connecting passengers usually have to switch terminals here. And other airports like LAX, EWR, JFK have arrivals in a couple of terminals, making it convienient for passengers to make connections.
 
standby87
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 2:33 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:37 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 15):
Why must you elites always whine when there is not a seperate line for you? Just because you fly a lot does NOT mean you are better then anyone else..

Chris

No, but the elites and the F/J pax pay a lot more for their tickets.

Simple hey?  biggrin 
 
birdbrainz
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 6:57 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:59 am

I just flew from Cork, Ireland to LAX via Heathrow, and didn't experience anything unusual, other than a hand-screening of my bags at the gate in Cork, which I'm pretty sure was random.

In fact, I didn't get the supplemental shoe treatment at the AA gate at LHR.

Once in LAX, I breezed through customs and immigration. Maybe it's because I'm a US citizen. Who knows.

One warning: Check-in in Cork is a nightmare for those checking bags. However, it appears that a new terminal is under construction.

Having cleared customs at ATL recently, it struck me as a busy airport with a wait, but not a lot worse than anywhere else.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
irishmd11
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 24):
a waste of manpower

Dear friends,

Any Government, particularly Irish, would be happy to announce the creation of a few extra jobs...keeps everybody busy,no?.

Nowadays, in the sacred name of security, anything goes, and if you're not happy with that...well, I haven't tried yet...I haven't stopped loving nor caring for my family, my dog and my cat, and haven't finished paying my mortgage. So I keep my gob shut!

Slan!

Gerry
ATR 72,Avro 85,BAC 1-11,Concorde,Trident,BAE146,BN Islander,707,727,737,741,743,744757,767,772,773,DC-9,DC-10,MD-11,MD-8
 
greenjet
Posts: 869
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 9:59 pm

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:56 am

Although not totally relevant, there was recently a incident at Dublin airport where the press made a complete mockery of security with undercover reporters etc etc.

Drinkstrolley, it was actually as a result of an audit conducted by EC representatives. Recently I set off the metal detectors and they didn't even search me. So it just goes to show that they've learned nothing despite all the long queues and OTT procedures but that's all for show after the audit.

Dublin Airport is an embarrassing slum that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. You even have to pass through a passport control area when arriving off domestic flights.
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting Misbeehavin (Thread starter):
And there’s no separate line for premium / elite passengers. mad hissyfit

Good. Immigration should not give preferential treatments.

Clearance at Canadian stations is not as bad as you stated, but can be as long as 15 minutes (at YVR) and a bit longer at YYZ (the last time I went through YYZ was to the US involved some crazy weather cancellations). I'd much rather clear outside the US for lineups on arrival purposes, as well as, if the immigration officer has issues and decides not to let me in, I do not have to take another flight back to where I came from.
 
misbeehavin
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:49 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 40):
Dublin Airport is an embarrassing slum that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. You even have to pass through a passport control area when arriving off domestic flights.

LOL! It's not so bad! But you do have to go through immigration even if you're connecting at DUB. I was amazed to learn that DUB does not have a transfer facility at all! You have to go through immigration, past baggage claim and go back upstairs.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 41):
Good. Immigration should not give preferential treatments.

I commented on Security not giving preferential treatment!
 
NASBWI
Posts: 919
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:13 am

Ouch! I'll never complain about the pre-clearance lines in NAS again! lol. It's usually only really bad in the middle of the day/early afternoon (when the majority of the US-bound flights depart). It would be a lot more convenient (at least for the ATL arrival) if Ireland included customs in its pre-clearance, no? And perhaps get rid of the pre-checkin thing.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
ScottB
Posts: 5448
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting Magyar (Reply 14):
This is ridicoulous! I wonder what the
US would do if another country asked
for preclearance at US airports.
I just don't see what is the deal in this
"preclearance'' for Ireland or Canada.

Blah, blah, blah, yet another anti-American rant. I'm not sure that any other country has asked to build pre-clearance facilities in the U.S., given the cost of staffing and maintaining them.

Pre-clearance is a GREAT deal for Canada and Canadian airlines (most notably, AC), given that AC, WS, etc. can operate from any Canadian airport with pre-clearance facilities to U.S. airports that may have very limited customs facilities (for example, LGA, DCA, HPN, MHT, PVD, ALB, ROC, CHS, MDT, ABE, PSP, etc.). It's a great convenience for Canadians making connections in the United States given that planes can arrive at domestic gates and connection times can be much shorter (with less uncertainty regarding time needed to clear Immigration/Customs).

As for places like AUA, FPO, NAS, BDA -- the local economies are highly dependent on tourism, notably from the U.S., and pre-clearance makes it far more convenient for Americans to travel from convenient airports (like LGA, for example) and spend money there. The halfway solution in Ireland seems to not be a great benefit for passengers, though it arguably helps spare the airlines (including EI) the expense of the return flight for persons refused entry into the U.S.A.
 
pilottj
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:23 pm

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:07 am

Preclearance-
sounds like a term that George Carlin could have fun with.
God was my copilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him...
 
misbeehavin
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:49 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:07 am

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 42):
Quoting Greenjet (Reply 40):
Dublin Airport is an embarrassing slum that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. You even have to pass through a passport control area when arriving off domestic flights.

LOL! It's not so bad!

Oh! As much as I loved Ireland, I have other misgivings about Dublin Airport.

If it weren't for the accents and the complete absence of Latin American faces, I would have thought I was at an American airport!

US Immigration
American-style security
No smoking anywhere
McDonald's and Sbarro's (WTF?)
 
Palladium
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:35 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 15):
Quoting Misbeehavin (Thread starter):
And there’s no separate line for premium / elite passengers.

Why must you elites always whine when there is not a seperate line for you? Just because you fly a lot does NOT mean you are better then anyone else..

Chris

- You are wrong Chris.... , This is why every airlines in the world has their own private club for frequent flyers/first/business class passengers. You get what you pay. If you travel in first/business class of course you will get special attention and services both on the ground and in the air.

Separate line for first/business passengers... why not?

Even, some well known airlines like cathay pacfic and SQ, they put special tag for first/business passenger's baggage, so that upon arrival, their baggage will came out first.
 
FlyinHigh
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:29 am

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 40):
Dublin Airport is an embarrassing slum that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. You even have to pass through a passport control area when arriving off domestic flights.

You hit the nail right on the head greenjet. Actually I think the whole lot needs to be rebuilt. It was never built to handle the volumes that it currently is and it is now a very difficult airport to fly out.
Flown on A300,320,321,330, B717,727,737,747,757,767,777, BAC 1-11, BAE 146, D228, HS-121, L1011, MD 80, S360
 
greenjet
Posts: 869
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 9:59 pm

RE: Beware The US Pre-clearance In Ireland!

Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting FlyinHigh (Reply 48):
You hit the nail right on the head greenjet. Actually I think the whole lot needs to be rebuilt. It was never built to handle the volumes that it currently is and it is now a very difficult airport to fly out.

Yes the airport is a mess really. An extension here, an extension there but the planning (or lack of) has been shocking. I work at DUB every day and it's becoming increasingly difficult to do my job due to the overcrowded nature of the airport. It's quite common for the staff security entrances to be shared with passengers at peak times.

It's a shame DUB is what it is as it had potential to be a major gateway between Europe and North America this will probably never be fulfilled due to the airport's lack of capacity and the Shannon stopover rule - both beautiful creations of the Irish government  Smile

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