ETStar
Topic Author
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:06 am

Diversions into Canada are the norm these days, with a drunkard disrupting a flight or someone not being welcome into the US and even paranoia on the part of US authorities. Why are these flights diverted into Canada instead of one of the US states which are only a few miles away? Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?
 
Algoz
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:58 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:09 am

Didn't you know that Canada was a US protectorate???
It is not as important as the USA, so it doesn't matter if undesirables that were headed to the US end up in Canada.
Canada must do as the US tells it. They have to be protected at all costs, even at the expense of "foreigners" (ie Canadians).
 
User avatar
USAF336TFS
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:11 am

The last time I looked, Canadian soil is crossed over first from the westbound European flights over North America...
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
 
boeingbus
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:37 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?

Hey... its not bad thing for Canada... these otherwise idle airports are being utilized... but anyhew, back in the day Halifax and Newfoundland designed those airports for emergencies...

and there are landing fee's.... so your airports do make money. it's not so bad... get over it dude...
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:14 am

Which flights are "only a few miles away" from the US when they are diverted to Canada.
 
User avatar
USAF336TFS
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:16 am

I'm wondering if those were F-18s escorting the VS aircraft?

[Edited 2005-06-03 20:19:28]
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:18 am

They land in Canada because they are flying over Canada. Even on 9/11 I don't think any flights that were in the US were pushed back out to Canada. Most flights from Asia or Europe to the US fly through Canadian airspace. We can see this as a benefit because it puts us in a bargaining position or we can see it as a threat. Personally I don't think too many Canadians are worried about these flights landing in Canada.
 
misbeehavin
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:49 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:19 am

We all heard you the first time!
 
yegspotter
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:15 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:24 am

The majority of all flights from Europe to mainland USA travel over Canada at some point - why would they not land in Canada?? If safety is an issue, it makes perfect sense to get the aircraft on the ground as fast as possible, and that generally means Canada. I am completely confident that the law enforcement officials in this country can deal with any of the "scum" that might end up in this country.....
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:26 am

The answer is one word........geography. On most Europe to US flights, Canada is the first place to get an aircraft on the ground after crossing the Atlantic, thus, the diversions. Many here do not remember the days when Gander and Goose Bay were regular fuel/technical stops on transatlantic routes.

Do note, however, Bangor, Maine, has seen its share of diversions for security and other reasons, it being the first airport available on US territory after crossing the Atlantic.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13763
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:42 am

this whole topic is dumb. i'm tired of people making such comments because they just want to hate things or get angry over things due to other concerns or biases

most diversions I've seen recently are to Bangor. last time I checked, that's in the US. this one was to Canada because the Canadian airforce intercepted it. it's even explained in most reports.

it is also SOP to divert a plane away from it's intended "target" in such a case, since now we know that there is potential to use them as missles. in the past, the rules may have been different.

on 9/11, Canada took all flights because US airports went into lock down and shut down. Canada, as nice as they were, didn't want to see all those planes fall out of the sky when they ran out of fuel. we thank them for that.

our airports would do the same. if there was an issue with a flight to canada from mexico or south america over the USA, it would land in the US. same for any Canadian national emergencies.

grow up, guy.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
SLC1
Posts: 1360
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:13 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 11):
and didn't come from Canada.

And even if they had, we still would have let them in too, don't forget!!!
We're gonna do what we like to call a "jetBlue how do you do", which is slang for dumping a bunch of fuel in the ocean
 
commavia
Posts: 9744
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting Algoz (Reply 1):
Didn't you know that Canada was a US protectorate?

Please, is that really necessary? Are you kidding, or serious?

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 2):
The last time I looked, Canadian soil is crossed over first from the westbound European flights over North America.

Exactly. I feel pretty confident that if Mexico was our northern neighbor, then that country would get medical/security/disruption diversions. I think it has a lot more to do with geography than politics or the US wanting to "dump" its unruly passengers or security threats on Canada. And, by the way, Iceland has received its fair share of US airline diversions over the years, so obviously it's not only Canada the US is "picking on."

Quoting ETStar (Reply 15):
why should canada have to deal with any consequences that may arise because of things like 'US no fly lists', which contain the names of people who are not allowed to enter the states.

If Canada decided to close its airspace, or if an AC flight from GRU to YYZ had an unruly passenger on it, do you think the flight would divert to MIA, or CLT, or JFK, or anywhere US? I think so, and I doubt too many Americans would view it as Canada dumping its crap on the US, but rather as an airplane at 30,000 ft wanting to get a safety risk off the plane and on the ground ASAP.
 
Hardkor
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 1:51 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:29 am

This shouldn't be that much of an issue. The flight was over Canadian airspace, and was intercepted by two CF18 fighters. A level of cooperation has to be expected between these two countries, especially for geographic and practicality purposes in relation to possible security threats
 
Algoz
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:58 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
Quoting Algoz (Reply 1):
Didn't you know that Canada was a US protectorate?

Please, is that really necessary? Are you kidding, or serious?

Commavia - do you not understand irony? Or is it a British speciality?
 
gearup
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:23 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:53 am

Ah! give it a rest. The US are our next door neighbours, if we can't help them out once in a while, what kind of a neighbour would we be. They are there for us too, we have our differences but that's okay. BTW, it's not just Canada that ends up dealing with air rage etc. Shannon airport in Ireland gets it's fair share of those too for the same reason Canada does. Canada is the landfall going west, Ireland is often the landfall going east. I seem to remember a British airliner landing in Shannon to disembark 2 unruly Canadians who seemingly could not handle British beer!

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
bhill
Posts: 1309
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:08 am

Maybe we should pull the DEWS line back to the border...  Wink
Carpe Pices
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:24 am

First of all.....Since I reside in the US, travel to Canada frequently, and am a citizen of neither, I can tell you that Canada has far stricter immigration laws/requirements than the US. I've been working between the 2 countries for 12 years! ..BUT this is clearly off topic for this thread!!!

...as for landing in Canada...remember that often the US authorities will not allow an airliner to enter US airspace, therefore there are few options. I guess we should be thankful that Canada doesn't refuse them either!


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 5):
I'm wondering if those were F-18s escorting the VS aircraft?

CF-18s.

N
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:04 am

Because Canada and the US have treaties and agreements under NORAD that allow it. Canadian generals are in the chain at NORAD for just such reasons.
We have ~40 Comanning Canadians on AWACS, just for the NORAD (who, as a sidenote, even went to War with us in Iraq) mission. THe Canadians are at every sector in the US and at Cheyenne MT, and the US has forces at CANR.

And yes as noted above they were Canadian CF-18s. On another sidenote, kudos to Alberta for another great Maple FLag, I had a good time.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I'd like to super size that with a diet coke
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The

Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:29 am

Quoting SLC1 (Reply 11):
Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 11):
and didn't come from Canada.

And even if they had, we still would have let them in too, don't forget!!!

I didn't say that? Did you click the wrong "Quote Selected Text" button?
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:20 am

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
. Why are these flights diverted into Canada instead of one of the US states which are only a few miles away? Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?

I Canada wanted to they could request the airline to fly over. Also the US Government pays Canada for any cost incurred relative to the flt. in question.
AS carriers only.
 Cool
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
tsnamm
Posts: 529
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 3:28 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):



Quoting Algoz (Reply 14):
Commavia - do you not understand irony? Or is it a British speciality?

apparently just cynicism
 
flymia
Posts: 6808
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:11 pm

Well Halifax and St. Johns do come before the US so with those drunk passengers and all well they go to the closet airport. Which most of the time would be a Canadian Airport.
With passengers on the US no fly list. Well the pilots dont have much of a choice since ATC wont let them in US Airspace unless it is an emergency.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
timeair
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 1:41 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:25 pm

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 6):
Even on 9/11 I don't think any flights that were in the US were pushed back out to Canada.

HMMM..YES AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE WERE..2 WERE ENROUTE TO LAX JUST OVER BLI AND TOLD TO DIVERT TO YVR..I BELIEVE THEY WERE BOTH UA FLIGHTS ONE FROM NRT AND ONE FROM HKG

Quoting Bhill (Reply 16):
we should pull the DEWS line back

The DEW (Distant Early Warning) line has been decommissioned for years!!!! only a few stations remain manned..one being Alert, NU...
You can't get there from here.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7797
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:50 pm

Diversions into Canada are the norm these days

Other then this one name the last.............???? The last 5 that I can think of all went into BGR.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:56 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 18):
Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 5):
I'm wondering if those were F-18s escorting the VS aircraft?

CF-18s.

So what you're saying is F-18s with a block warmer and California emissions?

 duck 
We can agree to disagree.
 
ComeAndGo
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:58 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
Exactly. I feel pretty confident that if Mexico was our northern neighbor, then that country would get medical/security/disruption diversions. I think it has a lot more to do with geography than politics or the US wanting to "dump" its unruly passengers or security threats on Canada.



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 17):
remember that often the US authorities will not allow an airliner to enter US airspace, therefore there are few options.

It's the tough attitude of the US. If Canada wanted to do something about it, it should simply pick an originating US flight to Europe and demand it return to the US. Do that every day for half a year and see if the US won't change their policies.
 
gothamspotter
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:15 pm

Reasons:

1. There are not many population centers in maritime provinces of northeastern Canada, hence little chance of ground casualties should things get out of hand.

2. If you think the United States is the only target, you're sadly mistaken. Western Civilization, including Canada, France, the Netherlands, etc, etc, are all under the bullseye.

3. Canada relies on the United States for its national security. If we need help on occasion, they have little choice. Add the Fire and Police Departments of New York City together, and you have only a couple thousand less troops than the entire active Canadian military.
 
chgoflyer
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:16 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:34 pm

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):



Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?

didn't you hear? When the agreement was made that we would take your artic air Ottawa said fine bring on the crazy flights!
To come up with such an idiot topic for post did it take you a while think to think it up?
Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
Why are these flights diverted into Canada instead of one of the US states which are only a few miles away? Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?

Flight diversions are good for the economy. Landing fees, use of hotels, fuel purchases, meal purchases. Bring on more diversions into Canada, I say.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:52 am

hen diverting a flight the pilot looks for the closest airport that is best suited to handle his specific type of emergency and aircraft. in the case of a medical emergency onboard you do not want to land an airplane in some hole-in-the-wall airport with only a few medics on staff. you want the support that a large metropolitan hospital can offer.

also don't forget that this aircraft was intercepted by the canadian air force. he landed where they told him to land, and that's final. no pilot in his right mind will argue with a guy toting air-to-air missles.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:34 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 30):
Flight diversions are good for the economy. Landing fees, use of hotels, fuel purchases, meal purchases. Bring on more diversions into Canada, I say.

This is probably gonna be a real stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. If a flight has a serious emergency, let's say a situation like SR111, and the flight has to divert to the nearest airport. Does the airline still have to pay landing fees, etc.?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7797
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:58 am

This is probably gonna be a real stupid question, but I'll ask anyway.

stupid question..? No...!! The stupid part is the answer is most likely YES they do...!!
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
Diversions into Canada are the norm these days, with a drunkard disrupting a flight or someone not being welcome into the US and even paranoia on the part of US authorities. Why are these flights diverted into Canada instead of one of the US states which are only a few miles away? Why does Canada have to deal with the scum of flights?

With you being from Canada, you should know that our population doesn't even come close tot he united states. The chances of a highjacked (or suspected) plane blowing up over a populated area when it is diverting into a Canadian city are less..

It's not the 'scum' of the flights to the US my friend -- don't forget. We are friends and brothers and sisters to our friends in the US.. As well, we are major players and friends of the rest of the world. We as Canadians have ALWAYS been known as peace-makers, and friends of everyone. I think your statement is quite "un-Canadian".

Quoting Algoz (Reply 1):
Didn't you know that Canada was a US protectorate???
It is not as important as the USA, so it doesn't matter if undesirables that were headed to the US end up in Canada.
Canada must do as the US tells it. They have to be protected at all costs, even at the expense of "foreigners" (ie Canadians).

I certainly hope you are kidding.....

It's not about whos more "important" than anyone else.. I'm sure you'd find most Canadians would disagree with you -- it's simply location, location,location. The Eastern seaboard of Canada isn't as highly populated as some of the Eastern Seaboard of the US.

Can you imagine how you would feel if flights flying to France always diverted to England, because "England is unimportant?"
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:21 am

Quoting Algoz (Reply 1):
Canada must do as the US tells it. They have to be protected at all costs, even at the expense of "foreigners" (ie Canadians).

Canada has a population density in the northeast about 1/10,000th that of the U.S. It makes sense to keep the flying missles as far from the U.S. as possible until the problem has been taken care of.

Our Canadian neighbors provide a geographical safety net to the U.S. And besides, if "anybody" ever messed with Canada, the U.S. military would be there in full force in a new york second.

It's a case of "you scratch my back, i'll scratch yours..."
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
gilesdavies
Posts: 2271
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:01 am

Bangor is always a firm favourite with the UK Charter airlines to off load the British "Chavs" that have drunk too much on their holiday flight to Florida and the Cancun and decided to pick an argument with fellow passengers and cabin crew.

It makes me laugh...

The airlines dump these Brits at an isolated airport and are then all the UK Airlines impose a blanket ban on that passenger flying with them again and are stranded in the US and have to buy there own ticket back to the UK!

When you read about it in the press the US Police are surprisingly relaxed about it and dump them in a cell to cool down and sober up and usually released without charge or prosecution!
 
ComeAndGo
Posts: 813
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 36):
The airlines dump these Brits at an isolated airport and are then all the UK Airlines impose a blanket ban on that passenger flying with them again and are stranded in the US and have to buy there own ticket back to the UK!

Yes, but …

If these airlines were going to do so often, they'd run out of business soon than later. To land in Bangor and then take-off again costs money. And who is going to pay for the unscheduled stop? I don't think they let them British "Chavs" off that easily.
 
DarthRandall
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:17 am

RE: Why Does Canada Get The Scum Of Flights To The US?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:13 pm

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 28):
3. Canada relies on the United States for its national security. If we need help on occasion, they have little choice. Add the Fire and Police Departments of New York City together, and you have only a couple thousand less troops than the entire active Canadian military.

It is more of a symbotic relationship than that. Don't forget that, without Canada, we would not have the DEW line that was so important during the Cold War and continues to serve to this day. Also, we're talking about NORAD, which is a joint U.S./Canada operation. Back at my old job at the Alaska NORAD Region we had several Canadian ops commanders, so it's not like they aren't doing their part to defend us both. True, the Canadian military is not all that big by our standards. We're a superpower; it's our function to have a gigantic armed force. Canada doesn't have that obligation or perogative.
Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads all the time and don't even think twice about it.

Who is online