Avalon
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A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:13 pm

It seems that in Australia/NZ, only Melbourne (Tullamarine) & Sydney are taking steps to widen their runways for the A380. Would this mean that the A380 would not be able to land & take off from any other airport in this region?

Does anyone know if the military airports in this region could accommodate an A380 take off & landing - or if Avalon's runway is wide enough?
 
monteycarlos
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:21 pm

Quoting Avalon (Thread starter):
It seems that in Australia/NZ, only Melbourne (Tullamarine) & Sydney are taking steps to widen their runways for the A380. Would this mean that the A380 would not be able to land & take off from any other airport in this region?

Melbourne has finished its runway accomodation works for the A380, and Sydney is yet to start (financing issues I believe) but it will be done at some point.

I think that 45m (which is pretty standard of the runway width for most military and high-RPT movement airports in both NZ and Australia) is wide enough for the A380 but its more a problem of taxiway width and runway/taxiway shoulder erosion. As someone pointed out, the outer engine of the A380 is another 7m from that of the 744 so it does significantly effect the erosion of those shoulders which can lead to the faster degredation of the runway/taxiway itself.

Quoting Avalon (Thread starter):
Does anyone know if the military airports in this region could accommodate an A380 take off & landing - or if Avalon's runway is wide enough?

Some military aerodromes would be capable, some not. But Avalon should be capable also... in fact I think that it can probably take the A380 on the taxiways... After all it has seen C-5a's and An-124's but I am not completely sure on this.
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NAV20
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:26 pm

Not just runways - they're taking the opportunity to spend out big on terminal expansion as well ($150M. altogether). Our civil servants never miss a chance to spend our money unwisely  Smile

So far as I know those are the only two airports to be modified. Presumably others could be used for landing in an emergency - but chances are that the A380 would be stuck there because the taxiways wouldn't be wide enough for it to taxi in and out.

It's a matter of concern to me that the only alternate on trips to LAX or SFO, in the event of trouble, is probably Honolulu - and they have said that they are definitely not planning to accommodate the A380.
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flyAUA
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:03 pm

Quoting Avalon (Thread starter):
It seems that in Australia/NZ, only Melbourne (Tullamarine) & Sydney are taking steps to widen their runways for the A380. Would this mean that the A380 would not be able to land & take off from any other airport in this region?

Runways are not an issue since the A380 can land at any airport that accomodates a B744 (gear loads on the A380 are lower than current largest airliners). Also, the A380 does not need a special runway in terms of length. Taxiways and terminal space on the other hand could be an issue. I believe that once demand justifies it, and once airlines demand it from their airports, others might also prepare for the A380 apart from the 2 you have already named.

Here is the link to the A380 airport planning manual.
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wunala
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:10 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 2):
It's a matter of concern to me that the only alternate on trips to LAX or SFO, in the event of trouble, is probably Honolulu - and they have said that they are definitely not planning to accommodate the A380.

Hopefully there wont be any problems, but I hope it never needs to have an emergancy landing at RAR. Last time I took of from there in a NZ 767, we literally used the entire runway.
 
monteycarlos
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:10 pm

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 3):
I believe that once demand justifies it, and once airlines demand it from their airports, others might also prepare for the A380 apart from the 2 you have already named.

Its a very good point in that between SYD, MEL and BNE... which other airports in Australia have a need to plan for the A380? I mean BNE doesn't really (and thats why they haven't yet) but in the future might. Demand will be the key driver.

Also just a sidenote... Regardless of the A380, Airport master plans generally show very large expansion. Passenger numbers won't change because of the A380, but with changes and growth in the travel market. I know this is the case for MEL and probably SYD.
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:40 pm

Auckland has also been working on their runway (which is why you'll see in all the recent Auckland photos that the 'standby' 05L/23R runway is in use) : http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...0%2F%20NZAA%29&distinct_entry=true

You can see some construction going on here:


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Photo © Jonathan Rankin
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Photo © Colin Hunter



And read about it here - they are working in stages, and it will all be ready by the end of 2006, in time for A380s:

http://www.auckland-airport.co.nz/Ne...sHistory/press_releases.php?rid=98

Brisbane's runway is already capable of receiving the A380.

V/F
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monteycarlos
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:47 pm

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 6):
Brisbane's runway is already capable of receiving the A380.

Yes but what of the terminal and taxiways?
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flyAUA
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 5):
Its a very good point in that between SYD, MEL and BNE... which other airports in Australia have a need to plan for the A380?

Exactly! I don't really think that any of the other airports need major expansion at the moment though since MEL and SYD are the main international ones. The other ones are mainly regional airports aren't they? I am not so knowledgable about the Australian playing field so I'm relying on you for an answer Big grin
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monteycarlos
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:24 pm

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 8):
The other ones are mainly regional airports aren't they? I am not so knowledgable about the Australian playing field so I'm relying on you for an answer

Well, essentially the others aren't 'regionals' as such... well at least the main ones like Perth, Adelaide, Cairns etc. but they are hardly A380 destinations. I think the major RPT movement airports in Australia are (and if I miss any someone let me know):

Cairns
Brisbane
Rockhampton
Coolangatta
Brisbane
Canberra
Melbourne
Adelaide
Perth
Broome
Darwin
Alice Springs

And I guess you could say the 'regionals' are the others such as Albury/Wodonga and the many others around WA, NSW, QLD, NT and SA.
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 7):
Yes but what of the terminal and taxiways?

From what I gather, they are also capable of handling the aircraft.

V/F
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monteycarlos
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 10):
From what I gather, they are also capable of handling the aircraft.

Ah very nice indeed. If Airbus penetrate Japan or China a bit more we might actually see a few of them up in BNE!

Cheers V/F!
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Avalon
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:39 pm

Dear FlyAUA

Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Cairns, Adelaide and Darwin airports all host international flights (Canberra to a miniscule degree, and Coolangatta [Gold Coast] sort of...). If any other city besides Syd & Melb were to host the A380, I guess it would be Brisbane because Qantas flies non-stop from Brisbane to LAX (with others via Auckland), and the Pacific route seems to favour the A380 the most - IMHO, this would be at least several years after A380 flights commence from Syd & Melb.

Besides LAX, Brisbane international flights serve mostly East & SE Asian countries, as well as NZ.

Perth too focuses on East & SE Asian countries, with flights to South Africa & a few to NZ (Air NZ only).

Cairns is a holiday destination for East & South East Asian countries; Adelaide only has some flights to Singapore, HK, Bali & Auckland; Darwin just does Singapore & Bali & probably Jakarta.

Most flights from Europe tend to be from London and terminate in Sydney or Melbourne. Passengers for the other Australian cities mentioned transfer at hubs in Singapore, Bangkok or HK to continue to these cities.

This is a rough guide (& others may add/correct it) - but I think it lays something of a template, wherein A380's would only fly to Syd & Melb (from London & the US), with Brisbane (with flights from the US) possibly the only other city that may take the A380 within the next decade. Perth would rank next, but probably a much longer way down the path. A possible, different route for the A380 in Aust could be flights to South Africa - because of the consistently high loads on this route of late; and probably just from Syd-JNB, not out of Perth.
 
Avalon
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:42 pm

Hey Monteycarlos,

Pls excuse my ignorance, but what does RPT (in yr message) stand for?
Thanks in advance.
 
flyAUA
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:46 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 9):
Well, essentially the others aren't 'regionals' as such... well at least the main ones like Perth, Adelaide, Cairns etc. but they are hardly A380 destinations.



Quoting Avalon (Reply 12):
Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Cairns, Adelaide and Darwin airports all host international flights (Canberra to a miniscule degree, and Coolangatta [Gold Coast] sort of...). If any other city besides Syd & Melb were to host the A380, I guess it would be Brisbane because Qantas flies non-stop from Brisbane to LAX (with others via Auckland), and the Pacific route seems to favour the A380 the most - IMHO, this would be at least several years after A380 flights commence from Syd & Melb.

Ok slight misunderstand with my wording. Sorry guys. With regional I didn't mean to say tiny little airports which only offer domestic flights. I was just implying that the others apart from SYD MEL, and BNE (as you pointed out too) and not major international airports. Sure they have international flights, but I doubt they will need A380s in the near future.

Thanks for all the info guys... makes more sense now though  Smile
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monteycarlos
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RE: A380 Compliant Runways In Australia-NZ

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:50 pm

Quoting Avalon (Reply 13):
Pls excuse my ignorance, but what does RPT (in yr message) stand for?

Regular Public Transport

If you're interested - http://www.casa.gov.au

Have a flick through the pages in there, especially the Information for Air Operators section. Its mostly legislation based but quite relevant.

Enjoy!
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