carduelis
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700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:44 pm

Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
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Vasu
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:45 pm

Hear this on Virgin Radio this morning.

Sad for the locals, but I guess its necessary when you have an airport like LHR with no empty land around it!

Ah, as much as this caused arguments, I think Cliffe was the way forward! Wink
 
MidnightMike
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:50 pm

I am sure that the residents will be well taken care of and were probably given notice some time ago, which is what usually happens when this happens.

In Narita (Japan) some time ago, a lone farmer refused to sell his land and the airport authority had to build around his land. It was pretty wild, to see aircraft taxi around his plot of land. Years later, he finally sold his land, I am sure for a tidy profit.
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DABZF
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:51 pm

Is the plan still to build a shorter runway on the north side?
... saw this plan sometime ago!
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brons2
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:52 pm

According to the article, it's a proposal. It's not for sure to happen.

Personally, I just wish they'd hurry up with fixing the Piccadilly line to T4, that would be nice.
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flyAUA
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:55 pm

Sky Scape is intended for viewing solely within the UK and ROI. It appears to us that you are based outside of this region and therefore we regret that you are not able to sign up. Early next year we hope to launch an international version of Sky Scape.
...STUPID!

There is already a thread about this:

The 3rd Imminent Heathrow Runway (by Ibhayi Jun 6 2005 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2005-06-06 16:09:40]
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commavia
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:24 pm

Unfortunate for those who must move, but sometimes sacrafice is necessary for the good of an entire nation.
 
carduelis
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 5):
There is already a thread about this

There is that one - but it was started four hours after this one . . . a different choice of headline I suspect . . . I was more concerned for the residents . . .
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Glom
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:10 am

I know 700 sounds like a scary number, but when you consider it in context, it's not a huge number. Other projects have dislocated far greater numbers of people.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:33 am

If they could just get the third parallel runway....
 
B742
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:35 am

Where would the houses move from, does anyone have a map of the proposed expansion?

Rob!
 
carduelis
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 10):
does anyone have a map of the proposed expansion?

Take a look at the following:-

http://www.thisislongford.com/Heathrow1.htm

There are other plans on the net..
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Feroze
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:25 am


Where would the houses move from, does anyone have a map of the proposed expansion?



http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ments/page/dft_aviation_031516.pdf

This is the Govt's White Paper from 2003.....Heathrow's 3rd runway plan is pictured on page 126/180


Regards,

Feroze
 
Glom
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:28 am

A nice objective source there. And everyone knows that Heathrow airport has nothing to do with bringing economic growth and prosperity to the country, it's all a dark conspiracy by moustache twirling executives to destroy local villages for no other reason than they are pure evil.
 
Glom
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:36 am

They had a bit of BBCLDN news. The coverage was typically dominated by the downside and not so much mention of the upside, but I've seen worse coverage.

It looks rough because some of those Sipson residents are not in the category of NIMBYs that moved into the area and then complained post hoc. They were already there. You know what this means? How easy is it for a simple traffic accident to set off a nuclear weapon?
 
trident2e
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 2):
In Narita (Japan) some time ago, a lone farmer refused to sell his land and the airport authority had to build around his land

That won't happen here - if the development is approved by the government and the local authority and a property owner refuses to sell, then in the UK we have compulsory purchase orders which would force a sale at market value.
 
Glom
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting Trident2e:
That won't happen here - if the development is approved by the government and the local authority and a property owner refuses to sell, then in the UK we have compulsory purchase orders which would force a sale at market value.

Send in the jackboots! It's such a conflict of interests. I approve of giving big fat cheques to the residents affected. If 700 families get £1,000,000 each, that's £700,000,000, which is 10% of the earmarked costs. Let's face it, it'll be worth it. I'd rather that than use jackboots, even though I want to see a third runway at LHR.
 
Gman94
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:06 am

Bulldoze West London, build 8 more runways and 5 more terminals, that will give the nimbys something to moan about. Big grin
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Glom
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting Gman94:
Bulldoze West London, build 8 more runways and 5 more terminals, that will give the nimbys something to moan about.

How about building ten nuclear power stations in the east end? That will distract attention from LHR.
 
samL
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:14 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 13):
A nice objective source there. And everyone knows that Heathrow airport has nothing to do with bringing economic growth and prosperity to the country, it's all a dark conspiracy by moustache twirling executives to destroy local villages for no other reason than they are pure evil.

With all due respect, this website is hardly "objective" I doubt most people here think about the downside (i.e. a few thousand people being forcible moved) when there is the prospect of a new runway to fuel the industry which we all love.

Also, can someone please explain to me why LHR needs a third runway "to avoid falling behind continental airport." Assuming the people flying to London will still come to LHR and that London is still a huge O & D market, maybe it would be better if we tried to minimise transfer passengers at LHR. BA don't seem to place a huge value on them, VS definately don't and BD only really care about domestic --> codeshare partner transfers. What exactly with the huge problem with AMS or CDG or FRA overtaking LHR in terms of passenger numbers and getting people to transfer there rather than at LHR.

The "prestige" of being Europe's biggest airport seems a pretty poor reason to bulldoze 700 houses especially considering the local residents were promised during the T5 inquiry that a third runway and 6th terminal would specifically not be necessary. I mean, T5 is still a few years off completion and already BAA have gone back on what they said.

As I said in my post on the other thread about this, I think the idea of putting this "out for consultation" is completely pointless as the conclusion is already foregone and no reasonable alternative suggestions (like try and reduce the number of flights or try to encourage airlines to fly to other airports) will even be considered.

Don't get me wrong, I geniunely love aviation and really want to work in this industry after I graduate but I think the industry can't expect to be allowed to dominate literally everything and get its own way every single time. Some compromise beyond, putting in a pond to house some newts moved during T5 construction sound be made. Just my thoughts though
 
Glom
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:21 am

I think, I think. Hence either big fat cheques to remove the force aspect of nuclear weapons to remove the move aspect.
 
Carpethead
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:11 am

MidnightMike,
Actually, there is a plot of land/house sandwiched in between taxiways. It's crazy, I thought there was no one living there and the property owner is just making a stunt but the curtains and everything changes from time to time, so there must be someone there.
Hope you guys have better luck with land acquisition because we, here in Japan, have no eminent domain laws that forces property owners off their land.
 
jacobin777
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:39 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 16):
If 700 families get £1,000,000 each

I'm sure most (if not all) are going to for a small % over what the appraisal value is going to be.

1/2 million quid maybe? I think Million Quid is a bit too much.
"Up the Irons!"
 
incitatus
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:54 am

Heathrow got to go. London needs a brand new large airport. If there is no room then invade the north of France and build it there.
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zonky
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:18 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
I'm sure most (if not all) are going to for a small % over what the appraisal value is going to be.

1/2 million quid maybe? I think Million Quid is a bit too much.

Why not leave it up to the market?

IF BAA need to aquire land, then they need to be talkign to the owners of said land. The use of legal mechanisms like Compulsory Purchase Orders to primarily benefit shareholders of BAA is contemptable, imho.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:48 pm

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 17):
Bulldoze West London, build 8 more runways and 5 more terminals, that will give the nimbys something to moan about.

Hehe. Build the 3rd runway down Richmond High Street - see the clog-wearing HACAN hippies foam at the mouth then Big grin

Even though Sipson village was there before the airport was built, how many people actually moved there before 1946 when it opened ? Not that many, I'm sure. Most of the people there now probably work for business that rely on LHR for their livelihood, and I would think a CPO is probably the fairest way to ensure they get a decent whack for their property. Simply saying BAA can make them offers is not good enough. With the threat of a 3rd runway, what other market offer is the owner likely to get - BAA could name their own price ie. GBP0.00. A negotiated CPO is much fairer.

Most of Harmondsworth/Sipson is a post-war brickie-semi wasteland and no great loss to Britains heritage - that and the string of baroque jewels that are the Heathrow Sheraton/Meridien/Post House/Holiday Inn/Radisson Edwardian ( yuck  Wink will not be mourned by our grandchildren, I think you can be sure.
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trident2e
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:57 pm

Quoting Glom (Reply 16):
Send in the jackboots! It's such a conflict of interests. I approve of giving big fat cheques to the residents affected. If 700 families get £1,000,000 each, that's £700,000,000, which is 10% of the earmarked costs. Let's face it, it'll be worth it. I'd rather that than use jackboots, even though I want to see a third runway at LHR.

If a compulsory purchase order is used, the payment will be the market value of the property. Suggesting people would get £1 million is just plain silly.
 
fly727
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:01 pm

Kuddos to our British friends... It just takes some guts and face the locals and tell them about the improvements.

Slightly off-topic...

I am still very angry at our authorities which stopped an aggressive plan to build a whole new airport near Mexico City just because some farmers didn't sell their land (eventhough we were paying for their futile land waaay more than its true value).

We are stuck now with an airport that can not grow anymore, surrounded by the city and what it is more dangerous, with the approach path to its runways going directly over heavily populated areas.

Being said so.... I know when they will start thinking about building a new airport. I just pray to God not to be on that flight!

Again, congrats for the expansion at LHR.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
zeekiel
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:56 pm

Quoting Zonky (Reply 24):
The use of legal mechanisms like Compulsory Purchase Orders to primarily benefit shareholders of BAA is contemptable

Legislation is wonderful isn't it  Smile.

There was a big deal over here when they wanted to put the Eastern Transport Corridor here in Auckland. Compulsory purchase of land of was required to build it until the plan was canned.

It is not unusual if land was acquired through these means as they are part of key infrastructure projects. It happens quite a bit although there are more safeguards in legislation to ensure that it doesn't happen indiscriminately.

Cheers

Zeekiel
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aviationfreak
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:25 pm

Why not move London to another location? Big grin


I've read the part in the white paper regarding all London airports and what is stated in chapter 11.65 amazes me:

The airport operator argued in its consultation response that the full potential of a third runway could not be realised without a sixth terminal to the north of the A4.

LHR is already short in runway capacity. I always thought that with T5 there would be more terminal capacity than runway capacity or am I mistaken?

Regards,
Sander
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Leezyjet
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RE: 700 Houses To Go In LHR Expansion

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting Trident2e (Reply 15):
That won't happen here - if the development is approved by the government and the local authority and a property owner refuses to sell, then in the UK we have compulsory purchase orders which would force a sale at market value.

Slightly off topic, but on the M62 between Halifax and Rochdale, there is a house that is in the middle of the motorway. The owner refused to sell so the motorway had to be routed around the house. That was back in the 60's so don't know how much things have changed now though.

I also heard of a guy who was the last remaining occupant in a row of derelict terrace houses in some Northern town that were due to be demolished who also refused to sell up which delayed the project for months and months whilst they tried to get him out.

So it does happen here.

 Smile
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