burberry753
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:15 am

Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:43 am

Hi, according to the July Airliner World Magazine, Westjet are applying for a 180 minute ETOPS clearence from Transport Canada so that it can opearate its 737NG's on routes such as Halifax-London and Vancouver-Hawaii.

"If clearence is obtained, the carrier will look more closely at transatlantic routes of up to 6 hours in duration."

Just thought I'd share that... cheers  Smile
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:49 am

Here we go...

Plan shows YHZ-STN (2500 nm) and YHZ-LGW (2498 nm).



Heres YVR-HNL (2351 nm)




Lee

[Edited 2005-06-06 22:55:32]
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
burberry753
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:15 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:51 am

BMIflyer, i get it on subscription so i get it early hehehe..  Smile
 
Luke
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:16 pm

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:00 am

Very interesting, and quite a radical change from the traditional LCC business model. I know Zoom do a similar thing but they started off as something different. AFAIK, Westjet is otherwise quite a 'normal' LCC.

Isn't it going to be difficult to achieve low fares with an aircraft that has few seats on such a long sector?
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 1953
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:00 am

Wasn't this already applied for some time ago? The Hawai'i rumour has been around for some time. My understanding is that it's not an indication that the route is soon forthcoming, but simply that it might be a possibility in the future, and they want to play it safe by getting the appropriate clearances early.

As for the London flights... it's an exciting possibility, but does it really make any sense at all for WS to fly to Europe from the maritimes (where they are not very strong)? Is the expectation that people would take one-stop flights from YYC and YYZ to do so?

I'm not saying it's impossible; just want to point out that this is NOT a solid indication that WS is about to start trans-atlantic flights. I would suggest that this remains quite unlikely. As such, I think the thread title is a little misleading.

[Edited 2005-06-06 23:02:58]
Next flight.... who knows.
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:43 am

ETOPS has been running around with WestJet for over a year now... this is pretty old news.

As for flying to the UK... I don't think that's really in the cards. Hawaii is probably a better bet; maybe Bermuda and more points in the Carribbean as well. All would probably be operated as part of their charter agreements.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
yeggerman
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:31 pm

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:03 am

I think in the works would be the sun destinations they travel to. I can see in like 7-10 years maybe when all of Canada is serviced and the transboader market is doing well maybe a venture overseas but until then, there is enough growth and oppertunity closer to home to invest money on.
"All great things must come to an end"
 
MissedApproach
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:12 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:13 am

That would be nice, but I think a European route is wishful thinking. There are already plenty of direct flights from YYZ & YUL by AC, among others, & the fares are quite reasonable (especially compared to domestic fares). WS would have to offer really competitive rates to get any sort of load factor. The Hawaii route seems the more likely of the two, IMO.  pessimist 
Can you hear me now?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:17 am

I really don't know why they want ETOPS 180 for this. ETOPS 120 works over the entire Atlantic except over the Azores (where WS will not be going) and even then only needs ETOPS 138
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
timeair
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 1:41 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:19 pm

If I am not mistaken WS looked at the B767-200 shortly after start up for long haul routes, hence the B767-200 model in their corporate offices...
You can't get there from here.
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:54 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
I really don't know why they want ETOPS 180 for this. ETOPS 120 works over the entire Atlantic except over the Azores (where WS will not be going) and even then only needs ETOPS 138

So far, it's all supposition and heresay - WS hasn't made any committments to travel across the Atlantic at all. I think, really, that the more likely suspects are places in the Carribbean, maybe Bermuda and Hawaii as well.

That said, there's plenty of "low-hanging fruit" around which WS could utilize in the immediate future, without having to go long-distance over-water. As mentioned before, WestJet would be fighting an uphill battle in many trans-atlantic market against entrenched competitors, especially AC.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:45 pm

Quoting Goose (Reply 10):
That said, there's plenty of "low-hanging fruit" around which WS could utilize in the immediate future, without having to go long-distance over-water

Where would this "low-hanging fruit" be? Just curious, as it seems that it's getting harder for WJ to find it. It wasn't in LGA or LAX.


Regarding the Etops and Atlantic flights, Clive was asked this in a press conference recently, and strongly stated that WJ is not looking at the Atlantic. Yes it would be possible, but unlikely given the fleet they currently operate.
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:00 pm

I welcome the idea -- Westjet has been great to fly on here in Canada, and I'm sure they'd be just as pleasant in travelling overseas.

Healthy competition is always needed!

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:01 am

id just like to say while on this note how fab west jet are , i have flown with them on 3 occassions and they r simply the best airline ive ever floiwn with , i work as crew for a uk charter myself and wen we flew as a crew from toronto up to halifax we were soooo amazing at how friendly the crew were well done u westr jetters
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
ACdreamliner
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:15 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:09 am

I would love this to be true. But I would think Scotland will get first grabs being the closest point in Europe (ex. Iceland). Edinburgh to get its first Canada scheduled service...
Where are you going?
 
yegspotter
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:15 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:25 am

I tend to agree with most of the posts, it doesn't make much sense for Westjet to tap into the European market. Domestically, we have Air Canada, Zoom and Air Transat all flying to European destinations, with larger aircraft - why does Westjet think they can compete with that?? It would be nice to have another option (domestically) to Hawaii though - nothing against Air Canada though, I've flown them a couple of times to Hawaii, it would just be nice to have more options that don't include connecting through the US....


cheers....
 
Ilovenz
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:49 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:34 am

Damn! Another good airline idea ripped from my hands!  hissyfit  What would the primary interest be in traveling between London and Halifax? Is there anyway WS could develop interest in that area by generating tourist traffic? What about flights to France with connections to Quebec? It seems like Halifax could be an alternative connection hub to YYZ or YYC.

Also I saw Bermuda was mentioned. That would be a great idea for WS it seems.

Hope it happens, I'd love to see WS buzzing across the Atlantic eating up traffic from AC!!
 
European5
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:21 pm

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:50 am

Hey

What "London" airport? Gatwick I would have thought so....

I would love to see them at Heathrow though! as thats the only London airport I can get to really - Gatwick is too far away  Sad LOL

Hope it all goes well for them!

cya

Jimmi
 
Vanguard
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:26 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:25 am

There was an article in the Daily Telegraph last week about property investors from the UK looking to buy properties in Newfoundland & Eastern Canada - having exhausted Spain! They featured Hunter Valley, and mentioned Astraeus' weekly flight to Deer Lake from London. So perhaps there is a growth in this sort of traveller that WestJet are looking to exploit? Besides Nova Scotia is a great place to visit!
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:26 am

Didn't Zoom announce YHZ-LGW flights? There isn't a market for Westjet. Both AC and Zoom can benefit from lower widebody ASM costs. Surely Zoom, with a 767-300, can underprice WS any day of the week.
 
yhz78
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:26 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:33 am

In case anyone forgot C3 used to fly to LGW, MUC, HAM, GLA from YHZ and they did extremely well operating B757 and A330. The European market is definately there in the maritimes, someone just has to tap into it. And i don't think Z4 or TS are the answer as they only do a seasonal service in the summer
Canada Rocks! From the west coast to the best coast!
 
ACYWG
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:20 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:14 am

I pity the fool that is forced to fly on WS all the bloody way to London on a 737 filled with those damned leather seats. Sure they're leather, but when they're uncomfortable as sin whats the point. I think WS should abandon this foolish idea. BA, AC and Zoom have this market all locked up I think.
 
ACdreamliner
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:15 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:57 pm

i don't get you guys that say 'oh, its not a wide body so can't be great accross the atlantic. my family over in Canada came back for 2 weeks 3 weeks ago. They flew YYZ-LGW on a MyTravel A332 and said the leg room was shocking and the ride not great. On return last Saturday, from EDI-YYZ they flew ThomasCook B752. Said it was a lovly flight with lots of space...

IMHO, there are worse ways to cross the atlantic that a WS 737
Where are you going?
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:12 pm

Quoting Accargo (Reply 11):

Where would this "low-hanging fruit" be? Just curious, as it seems that it's getting harder for WJ to find it. It wasn't in LGA or LAX.

Well, considering that WS pulled LGA - at least, officially - due to them being unable to get better slots (or more of them) and they're still flying to LAX.... I don't know what you're referring to.

They seem to be doing fine - from appearances, they're simply tuning their route structure, which is what they've always done.... in YBR, YMM (they pulled out of there once, if I recall...) YTH, YSB, YAM, and most recently, YQX and LGA...
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: Westjet To Fly To The UK

Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:42 pm

Quoting Goose (Reply 23):
Well, considering that WS pulled LGA - at least, officially - due to them being unable to get better slots (or more of them) and they're still flying to LAX.... I don't know what you're referring to.

They pulled out of LGA, because they couldn't be profitable, for whatever reason. Yes, they fly to LAX out of YYC, but pulled out of YYZ-LAX because it wasn't profitable. Yes, they do seem to be doing fine, from appearances, but the last 2 quarters haven't been so fine. I keep hearing this "low-hanging fruit" comment, but never really get any answers when I ask where is it? What destinations? There are only so many Canadian cities that can be profitable for WJ to fly into. It seems to me that that list is getting shorter and shorter. The may add seasonal routes, but any year round routes seem to be already covered. On the transborder market, I see LAS as a possible year round (non-charter) route. Gates at ORD are going to be just as difficult to acquire as LGA was. Florida is covered okay, as most carriers do okay year round on this market. DAL and IAH are likely on the radar, but that's not a lot of "low hanging fruit" is it? Where's the rest?