MAH4546
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Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:14 pm

A Miami man has filed a lawsuit against Alitalia, claiming that the business-class product on their his Milan-Tel Aviv segment of his family's Miami-Milan-Tel Aviv trip last June was unnaccepetable and lacked proper legroom and pitch:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/11830658.htm
a.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:19 pm

I agree with this lawsuit completely. I mean, for my $100 bucks, I expect a whole plane just for myself. What is wrong with these airlines anyway.  sarcastic 

Anyways, yeah, I am not even going to touch this one. The world would be a lot better off without these morons.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
wukka
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:32 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
A Miami man has filed a lawsuit against Alitalia, claiming that the business-class product on their his Milan-Tel Aviv segment of his family's Miami-Milan-Tel Aviv trip last June was unnaccepetable and lacked proper legroom and pitch:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...8.htm

Eww! Registration required link. Does anyone have an alternate source to this article?

I'm sure that I'll still be crying for tort reform even after I read it.  Sad
We can agree to disagree.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:34 pm

Whats the Normal Seat pitch like.
regds
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JGPH1A
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:37 pm

How can you sue for that ? "Not liking the product" is not grounds for a lawsuit, is it ? Or is he suing for emotional trauma, loss of quality-of-life and other Yankee bimbo-type whinging ? Pitiful.

MXP-TLV is an intra-European (well, you know what I mean) route, it was AZ's standard European business class product ie. not much to write home about. Unless his travel agent promised him something different, he has only himself to blame.
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N1120A
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:43 pm

Well, it depends here. If AZ promised a certain pitch on the MXP-TLV flight and did not give it, then he has a case. Otherwise, a judge will tell him to go f' himself
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7LBAC111
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:48 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Well, it depends here. If AZ promised a certain pitch on the MXP-TLV flight and did not give it, then he has a case

Even if they say their business class product as X" of leg room, they still have the defense, that in the conditions of carriage, that they reserve the right to substitute or change this dependant on the aircraft operating the route.

7LBAC111
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ikramerica
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:51 pm

Well, some TLV flights are run on charter style aircraft due to low yields and high risk. For example, before Sabena folded, they ran their BRU-TLV flight on a 767 with 30" pitch max, and the fleet was owned by a Sabena subsid., probably for liability and insurance purposes. I was NOT amused by how cramped that plane was, especially for the length of the flight.

I also find the European concept of business class insulting. Keeping a 32" pitch and just moving an armrest does not cut it for me, honestly. This might be his gripe. Since I don't want to register with the Miami Herald, I can't know for sure.  Wink

I assume he paid more than $100 for the tickets.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
zonky
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:54 pm

Leibowitz's squabble with Italy's national airline began in June after he paid $8,800 to upgrade to four business-class seats to fly his family from Miami to Milan and then Tel Aviv, Israel, for vacation. The airline required the upgrade on all four segments of the trip, he claimed.
 
UN_B732
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:56 pm

You can use bugmenot for a password:
http://www.bugmenot.com/
What now?
 
N1120A
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:00 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 6):
Even if they say their business class product as X" of leg room, they still have the defense, that in the conditions of carriage, that they reserve the right to substitute or change this dependant on the aircraft operating the route

It depends on the contract. Additionally, they have to provide a level of service comparable to what he purchased. If he was promised a Magnifica Class seat on a 767, then he should have gotten the equal
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olympicbis
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:39 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
For example, before Sabena folded, they ran their BRU-TLV flight on a 767 with 30" pitch max



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
I also find the European concept of business class insulting. Keeping a 32" pitch and just moving an armrest does not cut it for me, honestly

Even in Sabena's 767's sometimes borrowed from Sobelair, seat pitch in BUSINESS was way above 30". 30" was economy.

As far as the European business class concept is concerned, we first should remember that most intra - european flights are performed with single-aisle planes, as opposed to some domestic sectors in the US which regularly use 767s or A300s or even 777s on some three-hour sectors. Pitch is almost ALWAYS around the minimum 33" or 34" on these aircrafts in business class with the middle seat now systematically left empty. Certainly comfortable enough for flights up to 3 and a half hours.
The overall business class experience between the European carriers and US ones is simply not comparable, and I recently had again the opportunity to check that on DL. Whether it is about fast check in, lounges, quick boarding, inflight service etc - let's not forget FA general attitude - business class on LH, LX, KL, SN, OS, AF, BA, SK, and many others is WAY SUPERIOR to whatever business and even "first" class you will get in most US domestic flights nowadays.
 
nycflyer
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:00 pm

About three weeks ago, I flew AZ on JFK-MXP-CAI. On the JFK-MXP leg, I was in economy in an aisle seat on a 772, and it was one of the most cramped and uncomfortable coach trips I've ever had, possibly matched by an LH 744 FRA-IAD a few years back. Does anyone know the pitch for coach in the AZ 772? It was pretty lousy. If I had a choice, I would not do AZ on a route like that again. The guy in front of me put back his seat during dinner, and I had to ask him to put it up - there was no room to eat.

The 321 on MXP-CAI was fine, though.
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:10 pm

Poor thing!!!!
How he must have suffered! Especially in Business class.
This is the kind of pax that cries when he does not get a window seat!
Boo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
imatams
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:23 pm

3 years ago on AC one of the peanuts in the bag was broken...
Can anyone recommend a good lawyer, I won't accept less than $1 million in damages, as I am reverely traumatised by this experience...
 
exFATboy
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:50 pm

On my flight from JFK to LAS last Friday night, there was distortion on my LiveTV screen and my view of Tricia Helfer was ruined. I'm suing JetBlue for deprivation and emotional trauma.

(Tricia Helfer plays "Number Six" on the new version of Battlestar Galactica. It's the best SF show in years, and would be even if the droolalicious Ms. Helfer wasn't on it.)

Seriously, this is a farce. If someone paid top dollar and got shoved into a coach seat without compensation, then a lawsuit would be appropriate. But really, this is just stupid.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:55 pm

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 15):
If someone paid top dollar and got shoved into a coach seat without compensation, then a lawsuit would be appropriate

'
No - a free upgrade on his next flight would be appropriate. This is normal service recovery. A lawsuit is just stupid.
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Falcon84
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:01 pm

Life sucks, mister, deal with it, and stop congesting our court systems with such garbage.

And it sounds like AZ is going to fight this asshole, and won't give him any customer service amenities. Good for them.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:33 pm

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 13):
This is the kind of pax that cries when he does not get a window seat!

Hey, I cry if I don't get a window seat!  wink 

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
olympicbis
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 18):
Hey, I cry if I don't get a window seat!

I am pretty sad too if I have do not get a window. Nothing can beat that IFE, whatever claas you are flying.
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:54 pm

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 19):
Nothing can beat that IFE, whatever claas you are flying.

I agree 100%. Watching airplanes at the airports, the still breathtaking sight of the world from 30,000 plus ft in the air, even at night I love it. Best IFE there is!

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
RAMPRAT980
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:58 pm

This may seem dumb but can anyone explain how the seat pitch numbers work out.
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cornish
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:59 pm

He should be grateful that they weren't on strike that day  Wink
Makes him luckier than most.......
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
ba757
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 23):
He should be grateful that they weren't on strike that day
Makes him luckier than most.......

All too true...
 
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PA110
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:41 am

OK, granted, the guy is a jerk and whining baby, but - this does underline the problem of differences in expectations regarding Business Class.

Premium service in Europe stresses ticket flexibility rather than creature comforts. Premium service in the USA stresses comfort over flexibility. It is the difference in approaches that leads to a situation like this. Most Americans who don't travel frequently would have no idea that the inter-European business class is essentially the same seat as Economy.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
How can you sue for that ? "Not liking the product" is not grounds for a lawsuit, is it ?

Apparently it can be... I recall an old case involving an English tourist who sued (and won) because his trip to Switzerland was not as promised (the yodelling was sub standard, or something like that). Jarvis v. Swan Tours, I think.
 
baw716
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:11 am

MXP-TLV flights run will either run with the MD80 or with the A320. The MD80 in Business Class have the 4 across Sorrento Seat in Business Class with 34" inch pitch, or on the A320, the 5 across seating, with the 2 seats, with the slight separation (the better side), or the 3 across wider seats. The pitch in the front end is 33". This is essentially the standard European business class product.

Alitalia's Business Class product in Europe is called Prima. It used to be called "PrimaEurobusiness, but it was shorted because the name was just too long.
The service is actually pretty good; the meal is all served at once, but it has all the courses that you would find on any other European business class product, just served all at once.

In terms of seat pitch, it is no better or worse than any other European narrow body business class product. Granted, anyone who operates a widebody three cabin product will probably have a better pitch and seat than AZ. However, there are few airlines that do that, because the general size of traffic to TLV is not large enough to justify a large aircraft on a single flight. Its better to send two-three aircraft per day. AZ operates two flights per day from MXP to TLV, from FCO, it operates generally one.

Now, as to the merits of this guy's case. He has NONE. PERIOD, ZERO.

Here's why. His contract with Alitalia was to carry him from MIA to TLV and back. That's it. If he and his bags were transported to TLV and back, in one piece, then that is the extent of the responsibility AZ has with regard to the contract they had with him as a passenger. The Warsaw Convention limits the liability of the airline to those points only and of course, those of damages to life, limb and to damage or loss of baggage. However, on other points as to service, quality of same, seat pitch and all those other factors, there was no quid pro quo on those points. The contract of carriage trumps any verbal commitments whatsoever on the part of any AZ representative whatsoever regarding service.

If the AZ representative misled the passenger to believe that he was going to get 54" of seat pitch on the flight from MXP to TLV, there is nothing legally that the passenger can do about it; however, the passenger can certainly make enough public noise to damage AZs credibility in Miami which would cost them more than what he would receive in damages if he were to prove this were true. However, I doubt this would be the case, because the representatives in Miami have been around AZ forever and know the product to TLV like the back of their hands (or better) and do not need to lie to sell the product.

My belief is this guy was unhappy about the product, complained to AZ, got exactly what he deserved, a letter from the local office saying, sorry but there is nothing we can do to help you. He got mad and decided to sue (only place he can sue is in small claims, he cannot bring a civil action in superior court, AZs lawyers would chew him up in about 5 minutes).

Long story short.....this guy is toast. I am sorry he was unhappy about the product. Next time fly someone else. The problem is, no one else has a better product direct to Tel Aviv unless he flies direct from the USA

baw716
fmr Area Mgr SFO
Alitalia (1998-2002)
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
flyAUA
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:22 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
A Miami man has filed a lawsuit against Alitalia, claiming that the business-class product on their his Milan-Tel Aviv segment of his family's Miami-Milan-Tel Aviv trip last June was unnaccepetable and lacked proper legroom and pitch

Some morons in this world have nothing better to do. Even if he wins - which I doubt he will - the airline has no money to compensate him!
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
baw716
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:45 am

FlyAUA,
It won't even get past the reading of the complaint. It'll get tossed that fast.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:30 am

North American passengers have found this out the hard way for decades. Business class in europe is not the same as the Domestic First Class in the USA. Alitalia's Business Class Product from North America is regular J class across the atlantic, connections to Alitalia's Euroopean C Class product.

I think the courts will find on the side of Alitalia. Alitalia did not change the product after the ticket was purchased. The ticket is a contract. The customer implies their acceptance of the terms of the contract (ticket) by completing the purchase.

This is a case where a professional travel agent may have saved the day. Folks using websites save money, but they lost a valuable resource when the travel agent virtually disappeared.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
baw716
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:03 am

JetDeltaMSY,

AMEN. A professional travel agent assisting this man could have provided him the right assistance to at least inform him of the situation. Then he would have gone into it with his eyes open, instead of being hit with it blind and getting upset about it. This is the kind of service you cannot get from the web.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
LX23
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 26):
The problem is, no one else has a better product direct to Tel Aviv unless he flies direct from the USA

I agree with ALMOST everything you said except that last little bit. Off the top of my head:

LH offers 1x744 and 1xA333 service between FRA and TLV,

BA LHR-TLV twice daily 767

LX ZRH-TLV offers 1xA343 (and 1x73G codeshare with LY, which is NOT better than the AZ service)

other than that, great post...
 
exFATboy
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
No - a free upgrade on his next flight would be appropriate. This is normal service recovery. A lawsuit is just stupid.

I should have been clearer on that - a lawsuit would be appropriate ONLY a passenger was involuntarialy downgraded from first/business to coach AND either refused to refund the fare difference or offer acceptable compensation (FF miles, future upgrades, etc.) I'm presuming the first/business ticket was purchased, not a free upgrade.

I've never heard of this happening, BTW...I presented it only as a hypothetical. The one time I got involuntarialy bumped down from business to coach, LH offered me either EUR 800 in travel credit or EUR 400 in cash, double FF miles, and a guarantee that the seat next to me would be empty. And the purser came back several times to check to see if I and the other invol-downgrades needed anything. LH handled what was a difficult situation - they'd had two 747s mechanical at FFT that day - with grace. They actually offered to refund the fare difference as an alternative, but that would have gone to my employer, not me, so I took the cash and miles.  Smile
 
IDAWA
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:12 am

I tried an Alitalia MD-80 Business Class seat on a domestic flight in 2002 and I was very happy with the legroom I had. Of course it was less than the business class on a widebody, but that's absolutely normal on narrowbodies! This guy is an idiot with a lot of time to waste!

I-DAWA.
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
 
BWI757
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:53 am

Nah, I guess business is slow for this guy so he grabs headlines by filing a frivolous lawsuit. Not only will he ge exposure and possibly new business, but he THINKS he'll get some $$$$

Can't wait to see which airline is gonna let this lawyer fly on them to TLV next time he goes. Blacklist, anyone?

BWI757
I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!
 
Palladium
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:58 am

A standard economy class seat pitch is between 32" - 34"

An Executive Economy Class / Economy Deluxe Class seat pitch is around 38"
(SQ and EVA Air has both this class type)

A standard Business Class seat pitch is between 40 - 50"
(Depending on aircraft types)

Business Class with Space Bed has a seat pitch about 61"

A standard First Class has a seat pitch about 61" - 75 "

First Class with space bed has a seat pitch about 75" - 80"
 
N1120A
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 11):
as opposed to some domestic sectors in the US which regularly use 767s or A300s

Very few sectors in the US regularly use A300s, because only 1 airline flies them. Most US domestic sectors are narrowbody

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 11):
we first should remember that most intra - european flights are performed with single-aisle planes

As are most intra-North America flights. US Domestic F-class has much wider seats than intra-Europe Business (same class, different name) and usually more legroom

Quoting Palladium (Reply 35):
A standard economy class seat pitch is between 32" - 34"

A standard Y class seat is between 30"-32" domestic (with WN and B6 in the US offering 33" and 34" respectively) and 30"-34" international
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
baw716
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:26 am

LX23,
Thanks, I contradicted myself with that statement, sorry. If you read earlier, I stated that the AZ product was more or less the same as any other European narrowbody product. I also said that TLV was not a big enough market for a single 3 class widebody perday, but it would seem from your post that that statement was also off the mark a little, at least from FRA. If FRA operates the A333, do they operate it with the long haul J class or the European C class product? I know BA with the 767 operates the European C product to TLV, not the long haul J product, since the flight from LHR is only about 4 hours.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
desiguy2447
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:03 am

Does this guy also plan to sue Alitalia for not having PTV's in every seat in Business class on there 767's.

This is just too funny, and really dumb on the passenger's part.
 
airbus3801
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 21):
This may seem dumb but can anyone explain how the seat pitch numbers work out.

Seat pitch refers to the distance from one point on your seat, and the exact same point on the seat in front of you. So lets say that I chose the end of my seating cushion, to find the seat pitch, I would have to measure to the exact same point on the other seat even though I would go through the back of the seat. The number is usually inches.
 
NightFlier
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:52 am

Good luck with this one pal.

Here's a good story for you. My aunt suffers from breathing problems, on a flight from FCO->JFK she became ill on the flight right before takeoff, so the aircraft taxied back to the terminal so an ambulance could take here to the hostpital. The flight departed with out her and my uncle and my aunt was released from the hostpital next day no problem. They returned to the airport and tried to get the very next flight to NewYork. Unfortunately the flight was booked for the next few days in economy, but there were a few seats open in the smoking section of the plane. My Aunt having her breathing problem was not going to be able to last a 9 hour flight with a bunch of smokers. So Alitalia suggested to my Uncle that there were 2 seats open on the top of the airplane (747-200) that they could take but they had to pay the difference and at a later date contact Alitalia to explain the situatioin of my Aunt and get there money back. My Uncle and Aunt wanting to get home agreed to the deal. After one year and talking to about 3 different lawyers they got there money back from Alitalia for the diffrence of the ticket, which was nice of them.

My suggestion to this guy trying to sue Alitalia, forget about it, those lawyers are not going to let him walk away with out a fight. wave 
Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.
 
ATAIndy
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:55 am

OH MY GOSH!!!!! This makes me sooooooo mad, people sue over the stupidest freaking reasons!!!! AAAAAHHHHHHHHH  banghead   weeping   mad   yell 
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-MIA, MIA-IND
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:33 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 29):
This is a case where a professional travel agent may have saved the day. Folks using websites save money, but they lost a valuable resource when the travel agent virtually disappeared.

Yeah, or Alitalia could actually put the seat information on their website, then anybody could perform an adequate investigation without need a "professional travel agent."

See, that's what I love about my favorite airline. They correctly believe that professional travel agents are generally a waste for any moderately intelligent traveler, and they put information on the Web so any person so inclined may inquire and receive an answer for themselves. Example: I booked two reward tickets, one for me and one for my brother, so we could go to Vegas for a little R&R. I wondered if my ticket qualified for an Elite upgrade. I did a quick search, and voila! It does. I love Continental.com.

That said, this is embarrassing, for sure. He got what he paid for, even if he didn't know what he was paying for. Now, had he been bumped to cattle class, he'd have a legitimate beef. Paying $2200 per ticket for a coach seat would likely raise anyone's ire.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
wingnut135
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:50 am

Kick a$$, three threads about stupid law suits in a week!
Passengers Sue Over Really Rough Landing (by Espion007 Jun 4 2005 in Civil Aviation)
Arkansas AA Crash Pilot Exonerated? (by GoAllegheny Jun 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

This kind of stuff really chaps my a$$. What will it take before the whole tort system collapses? I mean, really, all these lawsuits do are tie up court time and money that could be used for REAL cases.

DAMN YOU RALPH NADER!!!!!  hissyfit 

Wingnut
A good friend will get you out of jail. A real friend will be there with you saying, "Damn that was fun!"
 
767Lover
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:52 am

I'm bracing for a lot of crap to be thrown my way, but in reading the article I think his complaint is more about being FORCED to pay for upgrades on the second leg, which he didn't want to do, so that he could fly in proper business class on the transatlantic crossing--and then come to find out he would have been just as comfortable (or uncomfortable) in coach on that second leg.
 
jafa39
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting Wukka (Reply 2):
Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
A Miami man has filed a lawsuit

No news there then.......
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
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PA110
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:21 am

If Alitalia were smart, they would have recalculated his fare, charging Business Class from MIA to MXP and Economy Class from MXP to TLV. Not doing the actual math, I'm guessing the refund would have been next to nothing. THAT would have been justice.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:34 am

Let's see.

The guy paid an additional $500/sector to upgrade, and was told that he had to upgrade all four sectors, or none at all.

His point was that he would have rather just upgraded the two sectors where a real "Business Class" product was offered.

Alitalia was immensely rude in the way they handled it. Great work by an airline desperate to stay afloat! Really shows how much those bright folks (read: dumber than dirt) are thinking about their jobs.

So by suing them, the guy gets publicity, negative publicity gets around the world, and it's one more step to the end of Alitalia.

So again, how smart was the airline?

Steve
 
ikramerica
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RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:36 am

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 11):
borrowed from Sobelair, seat pitch in BUSINESS was way above 30". 30" was economy...

as was I. but I flew over to BRU on a 343 (or was it 2?) and the pitch was 32" IIRC. Didn't crack out the tape measure, but being 6'2, the comfort of the 30" 5 hour flight to TLV was lacking.

So what was the deal with Sobelair, anyway?

PS - I know you guys in Europe don't see what the big deal is about business class being 32 or 33" pitch with a narrow seat but paying a lot for it, but when you pay extra in the US, you get 36 at least, usually 38-40" and usually have a wider seat. with the same change fee free flexibility.

This guys complaint is that he was not allowed to only upgrade to Business on the transatlantic flight for some reason, then when he got to the next flight, he was pretty pissed.

Everyone's calling him a whiner, but he put up $2200 a person. As I stated earlier, this wasn't some $100 ticket, though that seems to be the standard retort for all airline apologists these days. "you want service, you should be willing to pay for it" is what I hear. Well he WAS willing to pay for service. And even when he did, he didn't get it.

He likely tried to get a refund or compensation and was not successful, and that's why he sued.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
avek00
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:40 am

The guy probably won't win, and even if he does, good luck trying to collect from a near-bankrupt airline...
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