soundtrack
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USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:49 pm

I heard a rumor of some airports possibly lifting the restriction of allowing non ticketed passengers passed security.

Anyone have info on this?

plse advise
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:30 pm

To my knowledge, the only airport you can proceed w/o a BP or gate pass is PIT because of lobbying by their Airmall.

I personally think people who are not travelling do not need to be clogging up the already long lines for the rest of us, not to mention the security concerns.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
GQfluffy
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:01 pm

I've heard of Gate Passes for adults/parents of Unaccompanied Minors. That's about it as far as non-ticketed people beyond the checkpoints...

fluffy
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
N1120A
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:35 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 1):
not to mention the security concerns.

What concerns? Those without passes still get screened and airlines sure as hell don't want to let someone who has not paid on the aircraft, so there is no reason to worry about that

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 1):
I personally think people who are not travelling do not need to be clogging up the already long lines for the rest of us

It was never an issue before, when passenger numbers were still higher than they are now (particularly at some airports), and the screening procedure is for all intents and purposes the same
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Mir
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:41 pm

In the US, a lot of the concessions are in the secure area, so the airports could make some good money off of it. Especially if they charged people a fee to get in if they aren't going on a flight.

And the extra people going through security might force the TSA to get its act together with regards to how it screens passengers.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
burnsie28
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:09 pm

The fee to get in wont work, but after 9/11 when the new terminal in DTW opened many businesses just shut down instead of moving because sales were not high enough to warrent moving over due to the no non-ticketed people beyond security.
 
HT
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:22 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 5):
The fee to get in wont work

As an aviation enthusiast, I would take the bait and also would use a designated checkpoint for non-ticketed pax in order to enter any concourse.
This basically would be the same procedure as when trying to enter observation desks in FRA or ZRH. Both levy an entrance fee and perform a security check of bags & people using the usual equipment. Even with these "hurdles", www.zurich-airpirt.com can brag: "With over half a million visitors each year, Zurich Airport is one of Switzerland's most popular destinations". And I assume, they are counting the people entering the observation desk.

With designated check-points those non-flying pax would not clogg up the check-points for (flying) pax (seperate check-points of course, only if demand is high enough).
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
dtwclipper
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:25 pm

It would be great for DTW. The NW Worldgateway was designed with retail space that depended on such traffic.

Also, the excellent screening areas would provide enough access, imho.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
NWADC9
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:26 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 1):
To my knowledge, the only airport you can proceed w/o a BP or gate pass is PIT because of lobbying by their Airmall.

Wrongo. You NEED a Boarding Pass, Gate Pass, or Crew/Employee ID to get through those jerks.

When this TSA bull$#!* came in to PIT, the Airmall's revenue took a severe plunge. The mall was made for everyone, not just passengers, so people would go to the airport just to shop, taking advantage of mall prices and tax-free clothing.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
YYZYYT
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:27 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
and the screening procedure is for all intents and purposes the same

Do you really find that? In my experience, screening has been a lot more careful since 9/11, and thus a lot slower... more careful look at all electronics, quicker to search out any pointy object found, more swabs taken for chemical analysis, magnanometres (apologies for any spelling error) set to higher sensitivity, not to mention removing all shoes.

As for non-travelers going to the gate, I always found that odd (it was never permitted here).
 
September11
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting Soundtrack (Thread starter):
I heard a rumor of some airports possibly lifting the restriction of allowing non ticketed passengers passed security.

I hope the rumor is true ... it's always nice to greet passengers at arrival gates.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
FI642
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Think about the gate agents. Not only would they be dealing with the 150 pax on the plane, but the 40 "meeter's and greeter's"- and the family and friends of those on the outbound.

The fewer folks through security, the less chance for error. Life is so much more civilized at the gates with JUST customers.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
Tornado82
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:31 pm

Yep... PIT Airmall merchants are mandated by their lease stipulations to charge "Fair Market Value." If they are caught trying to gouge the Airmall patrons by charging more than at their retail stores in other malls, their websites, etc. they are penalized via the terms they signed on to. Tax-free clothing is all of PA, not just Airmall.

Many people in that end of town used to go to Airmall just to shop, this was ended by 9/11, and even if they ended that boarding pass stipulation now the Airmall would still be hurting from the loss of US connecting pax (a large source of revenue), and to a lesser extent the Mall @ Robinson or whatever they call that one out that way.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:36 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 10):
I hope the rumor is true ... it's always nice to greet passengers at arrival gates.

Especially when you are unfamiliar with the concourse layout upon arrival. I had a hell of a time trying to find my way out of the concourse in which Song resides at JFK, but maybe that was just me  confused 
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
HT
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:39 pm

Quoting FI642 (Reply 11):
Think about the gate agents. Not only would they be dealing with the 150 pax on the plane, but the 40 "meeter's and greeter's"- and the family and friends of those on the outbound.

But that was standard procedure in the U.S. before 9/11 and it worked & was great !
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
Piedmontbrat
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:48 pm

As a frequent flyer, I hope they don't allow non-ticketed people thru security. It's bad enough trying to get thru the gangs of people waiting outside the security area to get out of the airport but to have them waiting in the seating area prior to boarding would be a pure pain in the neck.

Let people say their good-byes as they drop the passengers off at the door or their hellos when they pick them up at baggage claim!
 
pitflyer
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:54 pm

I live ten minutes from PIT airport and never would go through security just to shop there. Plenty of the same options outside the airport. However, what did happen is folks who lived further out and were picking someone up would arrive early to the airport and do some shopping (at least get something to eat) at the many choices at the airport. That loss really hurt the AirMall (the meet and greet traffic).
 
MikeTheActuary
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:34 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 2):
I've heard of Gate Passes for adults/parents of Unaccompanied Minors. That's about it as far as non-ticketed people beyond the checkpoints...

Also, disabled pax are allowed to request a gate pass for a non-flying friend/family member/etc. if they need assistance getting to the gate.

My wife is disabled, but frequently flies between our home and her parents'. I've been back to the gate with her several times. At BDL at least, security screening is exactly the same for the gate-pass holder as it is for pax.
 
cha747
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:16 am

When I lived in Pittsburgh for a short period of time pre-9/11 I knew people who would pay for parking, pass through security, and go shopping in the Airmall. As a matter of fact, that was the only place that a friend of mine at the time could find some special Toblerone bars that she liked.

In anycase, I think congested airports like ATL, PHL, and LGA to name a few would find it difficult to process extra visitors, even for a fee, when they have so much trouble dealing with the large volume of passengers. But at smaller airports or airports with more security lanes to go through, I'd pay up to $5 to be airside when a friend or relative arrives. Pre-9/11 I used to go and visit relatives and friends who were connecting through PHL and had two hours to kill.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
atmx2000
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:33 am

This is a bad idea. They will have to check IDs at boarding again if they do this. Otherwise someone who would not be authorized to fly could get into the boarding area and take the boarding pass/ticket of someone who could get through airline screening and get on board a plane.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:39 am

Not strictly related to the topic at hand, but some food for thought:

Christopher Hitchens article on Slate
 
brons2
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:39 am

Quoting FI642 (Reply 11):
The fewer folks through security, the less chance for error. Life is so much more civilized at the gates with JUST customers.

I agree.

Furthermore, on the security question, there is a security principle involved here. That principle is the "least access principle", that is, give people the least amount of access necessary in order for them to complete their travel. It's the most secure way.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
PanAm747
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:56 am

I kind of have mixed emotions about it all.

On the one hand, seating can be limited at the gate for the departing passengers...adding entire families to the crowd just makes it harder for people in a hurry (or people like me who don't meander and despise people who stop and gawk and get in the way) to get around.

However, airports were not designed with a "designated waiting area" for meeting incoming passengers. Not everyone off an airplane is going to know where to go or be able to navigate the system, including unaccompanied minors.

I am of the feeling that allowing non-ticketed passengers beyond security should only be done in cases of extreme situations.

One unique thing that has helped ease congestion somewhat here at SAN has been the new "Cell Phone Lot". Since virtually all passengers to San Diego are O&D, there are sometimes very long lines at the front of the terminals of people waiting to be picked up. Allowing drivers to wait for free in a lot adjacent to the airport for a short period of time (up to one hour, and they must stay with their car) has greatly cut down on traffic congestion, as coordinating pick-ups has been much easier, not to mention harbor police are no longer "shoo-ing" away vast numbers of cars.

It has worked well for me as both an arriving passenger and a chauffer - boom, boom, boom - no reason to go in, no reason to park, no time wasted. Could this be an alternative for other airports as well?

Happy flying to all!!  cloudnine 
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CXYYZ
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:50 am

What major industrialised countries allow non-pax up to the gates? I never understood why it was allowed pre-9/11. In my lifetime in "unsafe" Canada we've never had such access.

As a passenger, I don't want another 50 people hanging around my gate, it's busy enough as it is. As a passenger, I don't want the duty free shops to be crowded with random people who think it's a regular mall. Sorry, but say your goodbyes before you go through security. It makes the secured area a much calmer environment.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:59 am

In fact, there is at least one other thread which is full of complaints as to congestion at the security lines... why would you want to add to that?
United We Stand (in Line) (by Dtwclipper Jun 1 2005 in Civil Aviation)
 
scott0305
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:07 am

Reply 11:
"The fewer folks through security, the less chance for error. Life is so much more civilized at the gates with JUST customers"


Reply 21:
"I agree.

Furthermore, on the security question, there is a security principle involved here. That principle is the "least access principle", that is, give people the least amount of access necessary in order for them to complete their travel. It's the most secure way."

I also agree with this. People have plenty of other places to shop and goodbyes can be done pre-security clearance. When I first went to the States I couldn't believe that non-pax were allowed through security. This system has worked in every other industrialised nation since Adam was a lad and in the US for the last 4 years. Why go back? It only increases the chances of a security breach and is more costly in the long term as more security checks are needed and more people need to be managed. Draw a line and from that point on, all new terminal designs, refurbs of existing ones should take these rules into account thereby placing the correct facilities in the correct areas just like in the rest of the world.

By the way - while we're on this one. I also do not see the sense in the UK and New Zealand "relaxing" the rules on scissors etc in the cabin. It is utter madness. It is as if they think the further away in time you get from a terror attack the less likely a repeat is. Madness!
 
MKEdude
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:04 am

I am split on this. Having non-ticketed people on the concourses is not a security risk, it never has been. You still need a boarding pass to get on any aircraft so why should airport terminals be any different than any other public space.

On the other hand security checkpoints are clogged enough as it is. Allowing non-ticketed people through would gum up the works even more.

Perhaps the answer is to have individual security checkpoints at every gate, this would make the most sense for everybody. However Airports simply aren't set up for this and a changeover would require a massive investment, one airports/airlines/passengers would not be willing to make.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
ckfred
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:13 am

Considering the extra scrutiny that goes on at security, letting non-passengers would be a pain. I can only think of a couple of instances of classes of non-ticket people who could be allowed. Those meeting or seeing off elderly or other infirm passengers. My brother-in-law has MS, and frankly, he gets very forgetful. Once, before 9/11, someone asked him where he was flying to, and he could not remember that it was ORD. He only could remember that he was flying to see his sister.

The other would be meeting or seeing off a single passenger traveling with small children. My wife is flying later this month with our 2-year old, and she is scared to death, between her purse, his diaper bag, his stroller, and his car seat, she is still wondering how she will get through security at ORD.

What I would like to see at airports are better locations for people waiting for passengers. At ORD in Terminal 3, there is no good place to wait without being run over, and there is no food whatsoever outside security.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 26):
Perhaps the answer is to have individual security checkpoints at every gate, this would make the most sense for everybody. However Airports simply aren't set up for this and a changeover would require a massive investment, one airports/airlines/passengers would not be willing to make.

In the issue released a week after 9/11/01, Time magazine showed a diagram showing the enhanced post-9/11 security corridor. In the pictoral diagram, the security checkpoint is shown as being close to the gate as possible. Since the security issue is focused primarily on the planes as opposed to the airports themselves; I would agree that the ideal situation would be to have the security checkpoints at the gates themselves. The upgrades, as you stated, (especially for larger airports) would be cost-prohibitive to implement.

Didn't some of the smaller airports in the U.S. used to have the security checkpoints at the gates until 2002 or so?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
citationjet
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
It was never an issue before, when passenger numbers were still higher than they are now (particularly at some airports), and the screening procedure is for all intents and purposes the same

That has not been my experience post 9/11....
Since 9/11 having flown to Europe, Asia, Mexico, and Central America and have found the lines move much slower. The airlines require you to get to the airport much earlier. I was in Costa Rica last week and they requested passengers arrive at the Liberia airport 3 hours before departure because they do not have X-ray machines for checked luggage - it is all hand checked.
Post 9/11 requires removing shoes, swabbing luggage, turning on more electronics, an extra boarding pass review prior to security.

I would hate to miss my flight because everyone in the security line ahead of me was just family members clogging up the security line to join their relatives at the gate to say goodbye.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
citationjet
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 28):
Didn't some of the smaller airports in the U.S. used to have the security checkpoints at the gates until 2002 or so?

I flew out of Kansas City (MCI) airport last week. Because of their airport design, the security is at the gate. Once you pass thru security there are no restrooms or food; only chairs in the departure lounge.

[Edited 2005-06-08 22:24:47]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
CBERFlyer
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:47 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 22):
One unique thing that has helped ease congestion somewhat here at SAN has been the new "Cell Phone Lot". Since virtually all passengers to San Diego are O&D, there are sometimes very long lines at the front of the terminals of people waiting to be picked up. Allowing drivers to wait for free in a lot adjacent to the airport for a short period of time (up to one hour, and they must stay with their car) has greatly cut down on traffic congestion, as coordinating pick-ups has been much easier, not to mention harbor police are no longer "shoo-ing" away vast numbers of cars.

DEN also has a "Cell Phone Lot", installed several years ago on Pena Boulevard where the old parking fee collection plaza was located. In fact, it has proved to be so popular that not long ago the lot was almost doubled in size.
 
xpat
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting FI642 (Reply 11):
The fewer folks through security, the less chance for error. Life is so much more civilized at the gates with JUST customers.

I cannot disagree with you on that point!
The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads. -Asterix
 
brons2
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 26):
Perhaps the answer is to have individual security checkpoints at every gate, this would make the most sense for everybody. However Airports simply aren't set up for this and a changeover would require a massive investment, one airports/airlines/passengers would not be willing to make.

As noted by CitationJet, this is the way that MCI (Kansas City International) is set up. It's okay if you are a KC originating or destination traffic, but if you have to connect at MCI, it's a pain in the ass because you have to re-clear security when you get to your gate. The idea would be unworkable at hub airports.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting CBERFlyer (Reply 31):
DEN also has a "Cell Phone Lot",

PHL has one as well. However, it's located on the opposite side of I-95 from the airport and the signage directing people to the lot is somewhat limited. There's one sign that tells you to follow the Park-&-Ride for the lot; but after that, one has to totally rely on follow the subsequent P&R signs.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
schipholjfk
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 2):
I've heard of Gate Passes for adults/parents of Unaccompanied Minors. That's about it as far as non-ticketed people beyond the checkpoints...

A very nice Delta agent at JFK once allowed me to accompany my parents to the gate who were ticketed passengers. From what I understand, the agent at the check-in desk can issue you a gate pass if he or she deems it necessary. Given the lines at security with ticket passengers, I simply don't see general admission of non-ticketed passengers into secure areas. It will simply aggravate everything!
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
HT
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting CXYYZ (Reply 23):
What major industrialised countries allow non-pax up to the gates?

IIRC: Australia - or to be more specific: SYD
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
Trvlr
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:22 am

I believe there is no problem with letting passengers back into the terminals. How do you solve the congestion problem? Build a seperate security checkpoint for non-ticketed passengers. As far as congestion within the terminal is concerned, it won't be any worse than it was before 9/11. If anyone thinks that air travel is more civilized now than before 9/11, I invite them to take a tour around any Southwest Airlines terminal that handles 60+ flights a day. If you want a civilized experience, buy an airline lounge pass or take a private jet. Moreover, the economic benefits of bringing passengers back into the terminals will be more than enough to offset any difference in airside passenger flow (which, again, will not be any different than before 9/11).

Aaron G.
 
VEEREF
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:15 am

I think that's the least thing TSA should be considering! What they need to focus on is how to get similarly named pax off the no-fly list! I'm an airline pilot with a SS number and a US passport who deadheads on numerous airlines on a regular basis. Yet I am on the list so I can't use the kiosk check in so I have to go to the counter every time so they can check my passport.
There are even Air marshalls on that list! Come on!
BTW one positive aspect of only pax behind security is that there are no more jetways being blocked by people greeting pax who feel they have to stand RIGHT at the door to say hello, completely disregarding the people behind them who can't get through!
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
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ODwyerPW
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:36 am

Prior to 9/11 a group of 40 or so Banjo, Guitar, Fiddle, Tin Whistle, Flute players were permitted to play Traditional Music in one of the Lobbies past security at Albany International Airport. I was among that group. It was wonderful to see the bright smiles on tired, arriving passengers on Tuesday night between 7 - 10 PM. Vendors made money from the Coffee/Tea/Beer we consumed on breaks. Good all around.

I hope they let us through again.
learning never stops.
 
FI642
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:53 am

Interesting to see who has worked the gate, and who hasn't here. It's very clear.

.........and anyone who has seen the new Southwest Terminal at BWI can clearly see how civilized air transportation can be.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
access-air
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RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:59 am

The problem here is that TSA has chased out the non-ticket passengers from going past security and made no alternative for them. All the Observation decks are closed...What nonsense....If people were screened before heading to the Observation areas, like they are in Warsaw, plus the charge of about 4 Zlotys, it would be really nice.

Unfortunately, Airports have designed we airplane spotters out of the picture...Because of this, we also cannot park on airport perimeters, or any place next to an airport....Would we all like to be told to just get another hobby?? Not that simple....I thought our President was heard saying we should
carry on as normal. Just be alert...Well, what Airplane spotter isnt well equipped with enuff devices that if they did see something that they would report it. Some of those high powered lenses on those digi cams are powerful enuff to count nose hairs of a terrorist from 2 miles away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that aviation enthusiast/spotters/photographers there should be a national ID card system ata minimal cost. Background check included with that. It wouldnt get you out on the ramp but it would certainly at least be clout to get you past the secuirty check point so you could partake in watching planes.
As for the Canadians freaking out over why we want access back to the concourses....From the reports from some of my friends that visit in Canada, you don't have the harrassment to deal with as much as we do here....We simply want things to go back to the way they used to be.
Aviation of a hobby is unfortunately on the endangered species list all because of irrational fear....Maybe if prior to 9/11, if the FAA had mandated that ALL blades of any sort not be taken on airliners in the first place..this situation would be different!!! Coffin Mentality is what the FAA has.

Okay I have to quit now before I really lose my temper....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
727EMflyer
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am

RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

As to security at the gate, YES it can work. As mentioned it seems ok at MCI, and other small airports like my hometown of GTF. I also saw it work quite nicely in Singapore recently. I don't know if the whole airport does it that way, but the gate where I boarded my United flight flowed very smoothly.
Perhaps screening at the gate could be more time and cost effective too! (Gate agents please don't flame me here...) Perhaps instead of paying screeners or screening contractors, TSA could subsidize a pay raise and training for the airline's agents and have them do the screening upon boarding! Lets see, after a couple of years the new equipment would pay off, overall costs to the government for screeners could be less, there is one less line to wait in, and the resulting line moves faster overall since the only ones being screened are the pax for flight 123 instead of 123, 456, and 789.
I'm wasting my breath though, because no one would go for it. Too expensive to start and no "magic wall" to quell the what-if askers.
 
Venezuela747
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:36 am

RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:20 am

Wouldnt it either be an all or no airports lifting the ban?

Passes are giving on special occasions, you would have to make up some story of how your grandma is connecting at DFW and she is like 80 years old, speaks no english and has to go from C to A.........a friend of mine did that
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
checksixx
Posts: 1148
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:39 pm

RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:46 pm

US Military families can proceed to the gate for returning troops.
 
DLX737200
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 6:42 am

RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:01 pm

It's been spectulated among forum members here in the past to let non-ticketed pax down to the gates only during off-peak travel times. Not during the rush times. That way, no pax would be severely incovienced by being late for their plane or anything. It seems like an idea. Personally, I'd love to go down to the gates again. I severely miss the times of walking concourse to concourse watching flights board to LGW, LAX, JFK, with huge heavies right outside the window with great photographic possibilities. Those were the days.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:03 pm

Two years back, a kind security agent at Seattle airport allowed me to accompany my parents who didn't understand english well to the gate. It is really frustrating not to meet your relatives coming from international flights at the gate, especially if they have trouble understanding the american accents and are new to the airport.
 
JET1977
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:17 am

RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:14 pm

Allowing non-ticketed passengers to roam the gate area will dull a security officer's suspiciousness and ability to spot abnormal situations in the gate. Right now, people in the gate area are employees or passengers who are coming or going. With the small number of variables & situations involved here, a sercurity Officer or anyone in the gate area, could spot something suspicious.
Allowing non-ticketed passengers to walk in the gate area will dramatically increase the reasons for someone to be at the airport, thus allowing any activity that threatens safety to viewed as normal, blend in easier or just go unnoticed.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:31 pm

I was given a pass to accompany my parents. At LAX, I asked for a similar pass to accompany my parents to the gate, and they said they didn't have such a system there. Strange, different rules at different airports!!
 
schipholjfk
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:11 pm

RE: USA: Non-tickd Pax Be Allowed Back To Gates?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:33 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 46):
It is really frustrating not to meet your relatives coming from international flights at the gate, especially if they have trouble understanding the american accents and are new to the airport.

Well... you would not be able to meet them at the gate on an international flight anyway. They must clear immigration and customs first. In the old days I remember you could go to the current Delta terminal at JFK and stand on the otherside of the glass partition by arriving gates and see international passengers get off the plane. However, your first physical with anyone of them was down at the arrival hall following immigration and customs clearances.
The fun of flying... love it !!!