kkfla737
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:28 am

Pan Am To Africa

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:39 pm

In 1974, Pan Am’s International destinations were extensive, but strangely there were an disproportionate number of destinations in Africa. How is this explained?

African destinations:

1974

Dakar
Monrovia
Contou
Lagos
Abidjan
Accra
Douala
Kinshasa
Nairobi
Dar Es Salaam
Casablanca
Johannesburg

By 1982:

Dakar
Monrovia
Lagos
Abidjan
Accra
Nairobi
Johannesburg

By 1988:

Nairobi

[Edited 2005-06-08 17:07:53]
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:43 pm

I wasnt aware that Pan Am served so many African destinations in the past. I thought, then as now, Africa was the forgotten continent as far as US airlines were concerned.
 
Cody
Posts: 2172
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:45 pm

Someone once told me that a lot of the "pull down" you see in Africa was the result of local politics in the respective countries. Relationships between the countries and the United States and the rest of the world changed due to regional wars, invasions, etc. This would have also changed the economics of serving those places. I think the same thing happened with TWA's routes within Europe.
 
citationjet
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:46 pm

Here is a link to various old Pan Am timetables, showing route maps:

http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/TIMETABLES-PAN%20AM.html

.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
kkfla737
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:28 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:47 pm

Interesting that Pan Am only briefly served Cairo from 1983 to 1984. Cairo was always a TWA city. Bombay was the other city that was always TWA's exclusive domain until 1978. Ironically the route PA started to Bombay that year is the only route that Delta continues to operate that was a PA route beforehand to Africa or Asia.
 
DIJKKIJK
Posts: 1782
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:03 pm

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:48 pm

In the 1970s, many African countries were quite better than what they are today. Countries like Nigeria, Zaire, Zambia and Ghana were quite prosperous. Others like Liberia and Congo were actually quite stable. Many people were well to do and could afford to travel a bit, not to speak of the westren tourist traffic. This would explain why not just Pan Am, but several other carriers had extensive networks in Africa.

Subsequently, civil wars borke out in many countries (Liberia, Congo and Zaire) and economic activity slumped in others (Nigeria, Ghana), thereby drastically reducing travel to these places. So many of the airlines pulled out of them.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
azstar
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:58 pm

African destinations were primarily political. Service was not daily... in some cases once a week. One of the most critical factors in the reduction of service was the introduction of the 747. The airport infrastructure at some airports may not have supported it, and the other factor is the large aircraft made service so economically unviable that politically, or otherwise, there was no possibility of sustaining it. The strongest African destination for Pan Am was Lagos (not listed in the post). However, Nigerian government regulations prohibited funds from airline ticket sales to be transferred out of the country. So, millions of dollars had to remain in Nigeria, which was detrimental to any global corporation. There were many other political factors which contributed to the demise of U.S. service to Africa, also.

[Edited 2005-06-08 17:01:21]
 
kkfla737
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:28 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:10 am

Pan Am had a single flight in 1987 that went directly from New York to Dakar and then on to Monrovia, Lagos and Nairobi. By mid 1987, PA decided to drop the first three destinations listed and linked Nairobi directly with the Frankfurt hub and this allowed for connecting traffic from other North American and European cities to Nairobi. That route continued until the sale of European routes to Delta in 1991.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:14 am

Pan Am only ended it's Jo'burg service because of the anti-apartheid sanctions imposed by the US government.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
shawnnyc
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:48 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:42 am

All I know is in the early eighties Pan Am had a special World Pass ff offer where you could fly to Africa for 40k miles each. My full family did the trip, and it was great! Pan Am didn't always have the best service, but boy did they have a generous ff program.
 
mats
Posts: 543
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:20 pm

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:30 am

It's kind of sad that Africa is no longer served by US carriers. In the post-Pan Am era, TWA and Delta used to fly to Cairo; the former went out of business and the latter dropped the route after September 11th.

Fortunately, Continental's Accra service will change this.

There was a very short-lived venture, USAfrica, with World Airways MD-11s from Dulles to Johannesburg.

Years ago, United had discussed serving Johannesburg by way of São Paulo. But there's absolutely no hope of that service at this point.

My guess is that African services COULD be profitable, but long-range aircraft are MORE profitable on European, Asian, and South American services.

British Airways, Air France/KLM, and Lufthansa/Swiss have extensive African networks, so the alliances have their bases covered. The trip isn't easy from North America but the connections exist.

I think the only chance that another US carrier would serve an African destination would be from a European hub, analagous to the India flights. Delta could fly from CDG or Northwest from AMS. But regulatory issues are a nightmare and the revenue might be insufficient. But we'll see how Continental does in Ghana...
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 7):
Pan Am had a single flight in 1987 that went directly from New York to Dakar and then on to Monrovia, Lagos and Nairobi. By mid 1987, PA decided to drop the first three destinations listed and linked Nairobi directly with the Frankfurt hub

Yes, Clipper 188, a 747, flew twice a week from JFK to DKR, ROB, LOS, and then NBO. However, in the early eighties, there was also a JFK-Abidjan-JNB service operated with a 747SP (which later switched to JFK-ROB-JNB). Prior to that, in the early 70s, JNB was served with a 707 from GIG (interesting route).
 
drerx7
Posts: 4203
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:36 am

Also North American serves Accra fom JFK with 763s.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
there was also a JFK-Abidjan-JNB service operated with a 747SP (which later switched to JFK-ROB-JNB).

It also operated for a while with 747 classic (100 or 200) - I remember seeing them at Jan Smuts, every Friday.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
kkfla737
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:28 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:07 am

The June 28, 1982 Pan Am timetable lists the New York-Abidjan-JNB service as using a 747SP.

Another interesting note in that timetable is the daily nonstops using an SP from JFK to Dhahran.

On another note when did Pan Am switch service from Orly to CDG? The June 28, 1982 timetable list the nonstop flights from Miami and JFK both landing at Orly. When I flew Pan Am in 1986 from Miami to Paris, I landed at De Gaulle.
 
LPLAspotter
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:27 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:29 am

Boy I was mistaken: I thought PA flew in Libreville for awhile. Even the Peace Corps there gave out the Pan Am reward to anyone wro screwed up and weas kicked back to the US. Maybe that saying was synonymous with any country in Africa:
LPLAspotter
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:24 am

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 15):
Boy I was mistaken: I thought PA flew in Libreville for awhile

Actually, looking at the Summer 1973 Pan Am schedule, they did have weekly service to Libreville. Clipper 186, a 707, operated JFK-Dakar-Monrovia-Abidjan-Cotonou-Douala-Libreville (that is 5 stops between JFK and Libreville!!)
 
kkfla737
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:28 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:08 am

Libreville also? Wow, West Africa was really a Pan Am domain in the early 70s.
 
soundtrack
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 5:53 am

RE: Pan Am To Africa

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:13 pm

I believe the Continental service has been canceled - advising a post comment above.

PA in Africa was very political and govt mail, cargo, diplomats and diplomatic
cargo was a big revenue.

Boy was it great to see PA in Africa - and I sure hope US carriers can return to africa again!

Africa would be a perfect route for a 787

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