CX747
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747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Thu Apr 20, 2000 6:11 am

Guy Norris/LOS ANGELES
Paul Lewis/WASHINGTON DC

Boeing is formally proposing a revised, extended-range 747-400 design to several Asia-Pacific carriers as part of renewed efforts to launch the 747X family. The marketing campaign forms a critical part of Boeing's strategy to thwart Airbus Industrie's A3XX launch efforts in Asia.
The 747-400 derivative has been proposed to Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines (SIA) and Qantas. It is similar to the version proposed to the Australian carrier in 1998, which had a 413,140kg (910,000lb) maximum take-off weight (MTOW). The latest version, however, takes advantage of technological advances. Changes include the trailing edge wedge, blended winglets and 777-style cabin architecture and flightdeck.

The offer to SIA is understood to be for six aircraft, plus 10 options, with a similar number for Cathay Pacific. Qantas, which originally wanted to convert three late delivery aircraft to the original -400X offer, is thought to be interested in the heavy version for three remaining aircraft on option.

Boeing declines to confirm that firm offers have been made, but says its next -400X proposals "will capitalise on the -400, but with a new interior, flightdeck upgrades and other enhancements". The company
adds that its strategic focus is returning to the 747X. "With the 777X launched, the 747 will be higher up on the chain".

The heavy 747 derivative, although grouped with the more extensive wing root insert and stretched 747X proposals, is likely to be called the 747-400ER and could be available in 2002.

In detail, it is expected to retain much of the original -400 increased gross weight (IGW) study. The derivative will offer an increased payload of almost 7,000kg, or alternatively, between 750km (400nm) and 800km extra range, giving the airlines the opportunity to develop new non-stop routes such as New York -Hong Kong, Los Angeles to Melbourne or New York Newark to Taipei. Extra fuel is carried in up to two auxiliary tanks, each holding 12,050 litres (3,180USgal), and located forward of the wing box where potable water is now
stored.

General Electric and Pratt & Whitney are each offering 62,000lb-thrust (276kN) versions of the CF6-80C2 and PW4000 respectively, while Rolls-Royce is believed to be considering a 60,600lb-thrust RB211-524HT with a 5% throttle push in climb.

The heavier aircraft will incorporate the strengthened -400F outboard wing, as well as reinforcement throughout the aft part of the chord to take the trailing edge wedge and blended winglet.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
777X
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Thu Apr 20, 2000 6:41 am

Interesting, but both Qantas and United already fly LAX - MEL non stop (as of dec last year) with existing 747-400's

 
CX747
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Thu Apr 20, 2000 6:52 am

I guess then this model would offer greater passenger capacity and cargo space.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Udo
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Thu Apr 20, 2000 7:57 pm

I don't think that the advantages are such high that the -400ER will become a hot seller...

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
CX747
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Fri Apr 21, 2000 4:12 am

Supposedly, this is only a stop gap measure until the 747X launch.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
bacardi182
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2000 2:47 am

RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Fri Apr 21, 2000 4:24 am

will it have cockpit comonality with existing 747-400s? it sounds like it won't which could be a pain in the ass
 
CX747
Topic Author
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Fri Apr 21, 2000 4:41 am

It will have commonality with both the current 747s and 777s.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Guest

RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Fri Apr 21, 2000 7:27 am

I agree this version will not sell because the 777 & A340 versions are far more advanced with their FBW systems and longer range. The 747 is a 1960s design that is becoming obsolete to today's standards.
 
Navion
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747-400ER Not 1960's Design

Fri Apr 21, 2000 7:58 am

TEDSKI, I gotta admit I'm pretty sick of hearing the tired old (and wrong) statement, "the 747 is a 1960's design." This model has refinements everywhere. New engines, new electrics, new cockpit design, new interiors, new internal systems (vacuum lav's, entertainment, materials etc.), simply put too many items to measure. With all of the hullaballoo about the A3XX, John Leahy himself said recently (at Asian Aerospace) the A3XX seat mile costs will be "13%" below the 747-400!!!!! This is an admission by the big man himself!!! Put the blended winglets and trailing edge wedge on the 744ER, you have one hell of an aircraft and IT WILL COST ABOUT $40 MILLION A COPY LESS!!!!!! Let's all just look at the facts, not innuendo.
 
UAL747
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Fri Apr 21, 2000 8:08 am

Right on Navion!!! The 747-400X will not be a 1960's design. There will be so many changes to the aircraft. It may look similar, but underneath the hood, there will be many changes. So if the 747 is a 60's design, then the A340 is just based on an extension of the A300. It may have new wings and 4 engines, but it's still the same theory. So if you are going to say that the 747-400X is the same, then so is the A340. Let's just face the facts, the 747 is the ULTIMATE aircraft. Most people can identify it and it posesses something that any other plane won't. Even though the A3xx will be bigger, I doubt that it can ever fill the 747's shoes. The 747 will be made cheaper and be offered much cheaper to airlines. It will have similar characteristics and commonality with the other 747's and it will be just so damn better looking than that stubby A3XX. Look at that thing, it just looks like it has eaten too much. It just doesn't look right.
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Triple Seven
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Fri Apr 21, 2000 10:23 pm

I think that the 747-400ER would only be a stopgap until a more advance (more redesign ???) 747X would appear. The situation with the 747-400ER, I think, will be similar to that of the 747-300 in the early 80s. The -300 had limited production orders and most waited for the -400s so expect the new -400ER to be rather similar in sales order.
 
Guest

RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Fri Apr 21, 2000 10:43 pm

My apologies for making that statement, it is just that many airlines today are going for either A340 or 777 versions for their long range routes. If Boeing wants to keep the 747 in production they must come out with a version like their competitor's version the A340 with the FBW system which would lighten the plane for increased range. I love the 747 for being the largest passenger capacity jetliner and would love to fly on one some day.
 
CX747
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Tedski

Sat Apr 22, 2000 2:26 am

Don't worry about the 747 becoming obsolete. Actually the 747 and 777/A340 are not really in the same battle. The 747 is at the higher end of capacity and range market. This new 747-400ER will have a better payload/range capability than the 777-300ER and A340-600. As Triple Seven said this is kinda like the 747-300 so expect 70-100 orders. Most of the airlines will order the 747X and that will have an entirely new wing, FBW, new engines, interior etc, etc.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Navion
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Tedski

Sat Apr 22, 2000 2:37 am

That's cool Tedski. I understand you. Hope you understood my point. Keep writing, o.k.?!
 
Guest

RE: Tedski

Sat Apr 22, 2000 6:19 am

If Boeing can do something about increasing the 747s range to that of the new A340 series, maybe more airlines will go for it. It is ashame that certain European airlines went for the A340-300 instead of the 747-400 to replace their aging 747-200s for their long range routes. With the upcoming busy summer season they will need a high power high capacity jetliner like the 747 to handle the load. The current A340-300 is underpowered and can't carry as many passengers and cargo like the 747-400 can.
 
UAL747
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Sat Apr 22, 2000 6:57 am

I thought that the 747-400 had the range of the A340, if not more. You don't see A340's on the US-Australia routes at all. Perhaps they have similar range, but the 747-400 has more cargo space, thus being a better choice?
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Guest

RE: Tedski

Sat Apr 22, 2000 9:03 am

I have a question in regards to the engines. Is Boeing going to offer engines from all three manufacturers? Or are they going to give the contract to one company with the best engine like they did with GE on the 777X versions.
 
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sammyk
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RE: Tedski

Sat Apr 22, 2000 1:15 pm

As far as the 747-400ER I believe it should be from all 3 manufacturers. As far as larger versions, such as those that are stretched, I believe Boeing wants a new engine. Something from Rolls, I believe the Trent 900, and well the GP7000, which is a GE/PW engine.

Sammy
 
CX747
Topic Author
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RE: Tedski

Mon Apr 24, 2000 2:56 am

In the books the A340-300 has more range than the 747-400. In the real world though were headwinds and the like come into play the 747-400 has more range. In fact if you look at the worlds longest routes 98% of them are operated by 747-400s.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Axe
Posts: 16
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Mon Apr 24, 2000 9:13 am

And what will the 747X look like?
Will it have the length of the 777-300 with a full length upper deck?
If so, how many passengers will it accomodate?

Axe

Allright UAL747!!!! It's the truth and nothing but the truth!
 
CX747
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RE: 747-400ER Offered To Airlines

Tue Apr 25, 2000 2:21 am

The 747-400ER for the most part will look like the 747-400. The wing will be different and there will be other modifications but I don't think that the upper deck is going to be extended on this particular model. On the 747X though I assume it will be.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower

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