nisson
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Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:48 pm

Here is the story of AIR INDIA tail strike in LAX couple of weeks ago: http://web.mid-day.com/news/city/2005/june/111247.htm both pilots according to story are grounding pending investigation on incident. I KNOW IT WAS DISCUSSED IN PREVIOUS FORUM, JUST WANTED TO GIVE UPDATE, THANKS

[Edited 2005-06-10 07:52:47]
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:54 pm

Hopefully the repair was sufficient and not a slapstick job to get the plane back in the air.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:01 pm

If no one heard the tail-strike then it probably was very gentle so it is not that big of a deal. How come no body saw this at Frankfurt, I mean doesn't the tower or other planes see other planes taking off? No body saw anything? On the other hand who tail strikes a 747 anyways, very unprofessional.
 
Jetfixr
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:09 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 2):
On the other hand who tail strikes a 747 anyways, very unprofessional

This was a combie acft, I heard there are "classic" mistakes that can result in a tailstrike on a combie.
 
nisson
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:16 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 2):
If no one heard the tail-strike then it probably was very gentle so it is not that big of a deal. How come no body saw this at Frankfurt

Airwillie6475, thanks for pointing this out, it was in FRANKFURT where the tail strike happen, bringing the question, what would of happen if there was a punture in the fuselage and the jumbo was over water. I suspect there would be a warning of this in the cockpit, but one small hole can be the end for the jumbo.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:20 pm

Quoting Jetfixr (Reply 3):
This was a combie acft,

No.

The tailstrike was on VT-ESO which is an all pax config 744.

There was an unrelated incident on the combi VT-AIM the following week that did not involve a tailstrike but also resulted in an AOG in LAX.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:29 pm

Quoting Nisson (Reply 4):
what would of happen if there was a punture in the fuselage and the jumbo was over water

Tail strike is not necessary before the Aft Pressure Bulkhead.It can be aft of it too which is a Non Pressurized zone.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:32 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
Tail strike is not necessary before the Aft Pressure Bulkhead.It can be aft of it too which is a Non Pressurized zone.

In this case, the damage was to the APU housing area rather than the pressure bulkhead. The aircraft has been tested by Boeing and UAL in LAX after the repairs and been given a clean bill of health structurally. She has been back in service for over a week now.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
a340roy
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:58 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 2):
On the other hand who tail strikes a 747 anyways, very unprofessional

you must understand that the pilot is compeletely dependant on the ground services department who give him the load sheet, from which the trim sheet is made out, and necessary thrust and pitch calculations are given to the pilot. He has to blindly believe the calculated figures because he trusts that the ground services people know their responsibilities during calculations. This particular tail-strike was a mis-calculation from the handling agents - FRAPORT, due to which the tail-strike took place, althought it was a small one.

I agree about your opinion of "unprofessional" people, but here, it was surely not the pilot.

cheerz,
roy
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Nimish
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting A340roy (Reply 8):
This particular tail-strike was a mis-calculation from the handling agents - FRAPORT, due to which the tail-strike took place, althought it was a small one.

If this is the case - does AI have access to any sort of compensation from FRAPORT? They've lost pots of money due to this tailstrike and the subsequent AOG.
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GARUDAROD
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:38 am

Isnt the APU housing near the extreme end of the tail ???
That must have been some tail strike to hit it that far back.
10days out of service seems to be alot for just an APU housing,
was there other internal damage that resulted in maybe the entire
tail fairing being replaced?
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B747-437B
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting A340roy (Reply 8):
This particular tail-strike was a mis-calculation from the handling agents - FRAPORT, due to which the tail-strike took place

Lets not jump to conclusions yet. The matter is being investigated and will determine who is to blame. In the meanwhile it remains a fact that an aircraft flew a 12 hour flight after suffering a tailstrike that nobody was aware of and the mere point that such an event could happen in today's aviation world with everyone being oblivious to it is cause enough for concern.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:42 pm

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 11):
The matter is being investigated and will determine who is to blame.

When will the report be out.What did the Preliminary report state.
regds
MEL
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trvyyz
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:42 pm

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 11):
nobody was aware of and the mere point that such an event could happen in today's aviation world with everyone being oblivious to it is cause enough for concern.

May be a camera could be installed at the wing or somewhere to monitor the tail during the take-off as a safety feature.
 
irishmd11
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:04 pm

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 10):
Isnt the APU housing near the extreme end of the tail ???
That must have been some tail strike to hit it that far back.

I totally agree...seems that the responsibility is being "shoved around the board"...

Gerry
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burnsie28
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:22 am

Grounding the pilots because of this is rediculous, it apprently wasnt that bad if they didnt feel anything and none of the warnings went off and they still made it all the way to LA without a problem, and its AI problem for poor fleet planning.
 
goodday
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:23 am

Are they Indian pilots or expats? Are there many expats pilots working for AI these days?
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 15):
Grounding the pilots because of this is rediculous

It is standard procedure after any incident to ground a pilot until the investigation is concluded. This holds true for virtually every airline.

Quoting Goodday (Reply 16):
Are there many expats pilots working for AI these days?

Plenty on the 777 fleet but the 744 fleet still has a vast majority of Indian pilots.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 17):
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 15):
Grounding the pilots because of this is rediculous

It is standard procedure after any incident to ground a pilot until the investigation is concluded. This holds true for virtually every airline.

It depends on the Seriousness of the Incident Involved.If its serious then pending compleation of Investigations yes Grounding is done.
In other minor Incidents its not applicable.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
burnsie28
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:15 pm

But Ai makes it sound like they are basically going to fire them, and it couldnt have been THAT bad if no one noticed, let alone ATC or anyone else at FRA, and they continued all the way to LAX without an issue.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 19):
But Ai makes it sound like they are basically going to fire them

How did you conclude that.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Jetfixr
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:01 pm

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 5):
The tailstrike was on VT-ESO which is an all pax config 744.

There was an unrelated incident on the combi VT-AIM the following week that did not involve a tailstrike but also resulted in an AOG in LAX.

You are right VT-ESO is not a combie, my mistake. AIM which is the combie, had the weather radar problem.
 
Jetfixr
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:22 pm

As far as "not the pilots fault" the problem herein lies in the fact that the company in question have two versions of the same aircraft. The combi-freight version and the full passenger version. Pilot error could have come from the pilot being used to one over the other and put in the wrong numbers into the FMC. Here in lies the possible pilot error. It has been told to me from various jumbo pilots "classic combie error". No one is saying the pilots are in error, but when they put in the numbers they can tell if they look good or not and question the trim sheet. As has been mentioned the jury is still out until the inquiry has been concluded.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:27 pm

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 13):
May be a camera could be installed at the wing or somewhere to monitor the tail during the take-off as a safety feature.

Sure, and bring back the FE to monitor the little TV... The crew has enough other things to do during T/O.
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B747-437B
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RE: Air India Pilots Grounded

Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:45 pm

Quoting Jetfixr (Reply 22):
the problem herein lies in the fact that the company in question have two versions of the same aircraft

The captain in question had not yet operated a single flight on the sole Combi at the time of the incident.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

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