Concorde001
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BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:50 am

With BMI operating MAN-IAD with a 752, the flights now seem regularly full - loads of about 80-90%+ for most days in June.
I've been monitoring the loads for two weeks now, and C is regularly full and economy also.
I know full planes don't always mean $$$, but it seems the 752 is a much better suited aircraft than the A332 for this route.
 
oly720man
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:15 am

Nice to hear that the 752 didn't kill the route after the predictions of doom. Is it the nice Icelandic cabin crew who are making the difference or is it a BMI crew? What was the load on the 332 when it was doing it?
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dutchjet
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:20 am

There was a lot of drama here at a.net concerning BMI operating IAD-MAN with the 752, but in the real world the 752 is probably the right sized aircraft for the route. And, the average passenger probably does not care (or even notice) that the flight is being operated by a smaller aircraft than previously was the case.....if the flight is pleasant, arrives safely, and the pax find the level of inflight service acceptable, they are generally satisfied.

I hope that BMI can maintain service on the IAD-MAN route - this sounds like good news.
 
Kahala777
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
I hope that BMI can maintain service on the IAD-MAN route

From a business standpoint, is it financially fit to keep contracting out the operation of a single aircraft type, for only one daily service?


Aloha,

Kahala777
 
dutchjet
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):

From a business standpoint, is it financially fit to keep contracting out the operation of a single aircraft type, for only one daily service?


Aloha,

Kahala777

You, of course, raise a very good point, operating this flight with the leased in 757 is not a long term solution. However, the A332 is simply too big for IAD-MAN on a year round basis.....and, in any case, BMI seems to have other plans for the A332s at Heathrow.

Two issues: First, its hard to predict what BMI will do, there business planning has been very difficult to understand in recent years. Second, its amazing that the 752 found a new niche as a transatlantic airliner for "secondary routes" just as Boeing closed down production of the type. More and more, there seems to be a need for a 175 seat medium to long range aircraft, the A332 (and possibly the 787-8 and A358) all seem to be too big for certain routes, I wonder if Boeing will consider a smaller version of the 787, say the 787-7?
 
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mariner
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
I wonder if Boeing will consider a smaller version of the 787, say the 787-7?

Or maybe Airbus will consider a longer range variant on the A321.  Smile

cheers

mariner
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dutchjet
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):

Or maybe Airbus will consider a longer range variant on the A321.

cheers

mariner

My understanding is that the A321-200 is pretty much maxxed out - the aircraft would require significant upgrades and re-design to further increase range or performance. Maybe a long range variant will be included in the A32X-NG family, it could be surprisingly popular?!
 
atmx2000
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Two issues: First, its hard to predict what BMI will do, there business planning has been very difficult to understand in recent years. Second, its amazing that the 752 found a new niche as a transatlantic airliner for "secondary routes" just as Boeing closed down production of the type. More and more, there seems to be a need for a 175 seat medium to long range aircraft, the A332 (and possibly the 787-8 and A358) all seem to be too big for certain routes, I wonder if Boeing will consider a smaller version of the 787, say the 787-7?

Just because the 752 is being used profitably on these routes, it doesn't mean that airlines would rush out and buy them. It is old technology after all that hasn't been updated. And the 752 would surely reduce the chances of a 739ER being brought to market.

And a 787-7 would end up being in the same size class as a 762 and 753, not the 752. And it would be heavy for such short routes. What might make more sense is a 787-2 for thinner transatlantic routes as a replacement for 762s and A310s. But it would still be a lot larger than the 752.
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mariner
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
Maybe a long range variant will be included in the A32X-NG family, it could be surprisingly popular?!

"...surprisingly popular"?

Would that be surprising?

I doubt Contintental would look at it, for their European routes, given their manufacturer bias, but I'd guess a fair few others might.

As I understand it, the porblem for JetBlue is that they cannot be guaranteed transcon capability with the A321. But their loads would surely justify the capacity.

cheers

mariner
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trekster
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:59 am

Got a chance to finally see her yesterday at Manchster.

Strange livery, but looked full fromwhat i could see standing in the viewing deck at Manchester
Where does the time go???
 
N77014
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:35 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
With BMI operating MAN-IAD with a 752, the flights now seem regularly full - loads of about 80-90%+ for most days in June.
I've been monitoring the loads for two weeks now, and C is regularly full and economy also.
I know full planes don't always mean $$$, but it seems the 752 is a much better suited aircraft than the A332 for this route.

All they did was find a better capacity match for the market. The load never went away; it just found a smaller plane to make profit with. The J-class traffic propping up this route won't go away just because the plane got smaller. Time is money, and there still was a need for a nonstop.
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c172
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:43 pm

True, it does seem that there is a hole in the market. The value of the 757 lay in its versatility, flying transatlantic one day and short hauls the next. With the 757 going away and the 767 shortly after, what will fill this gap? A330/787 is too heavy. 739 may or may not have the range. A321 is a no.
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:59 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
Or maybe Airbus will consider a longer range variant on the A321.

Airbus is indeed looking at the range capabilities of the A321 while developing the next generation. They see the potential the B757 has and a range sufficient A321NG can do very well for smaller airlines.

However, rumors are there that Airbus is indeed developing a shorter range, less pax variant of the A350, somewhat like a A310 with A350 technology. It's said that this is the reason the official launch has been delayed untill September so that they can launch the whole package.

Ah well, let's just wait and see what the boys and girls of Airbus R&D are coming up with in the next few years.

Cheers!  wave 
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flybmi330
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:21 pm

The cabin crew are bmi crew, the flight crew are Icelandair
 
ba319-131
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:15 pm

As stated above, depsite the route now being a 752, this is the right sized aircraft for this route. The 'average' passenger won't have a clue what a 752 is so won't worry about looking at other flights/connections.

The only people likely to really know, are us folks here on a.net.

Good to see the loads are health, hopefully it's making money too!
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AdamTStarFlyer
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:58 pm

Glad the 752 to is doing well for bmi, lets hope they don't make any rash decisions and spoil it.
Has anyone one on a.net flown on this route yet with the 752, it would be interesting to here what the inflight product is like compared with what it was on the A332?
I flew out to Dulles on the 332 in march and although the economy class was full, the load in business was well below half, and im heading back to the states later this summer, but have decided to route through ORD with bmi, as i didn't want to be on a 752 across the Atlantic.
As many people have said, your average customer probably would not notice, but people on here would.

Adam
 
Skymonster
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
There was a lot of drama here at a.net concerning BMI operating IAD-MAN with the 752, but in the real world the 752 is probably the right sized aircraft for the route. And, the average passenger probably does not care (or even notice) that the flight is being operated by a smaller aircraft than previously was the case.....if the flight is pleasant, arrives safely, and the pax find the level of inflight service acceptable, they are generally satisfied

Well Tuesday will see my third trip across the Atlantic since the 757 was put into service. Had the A330 been on the route, all three trips would have been on BMI. As it is, none are on BMI, nor will any be in future whilst that 757 is on the route. Shame, but that's BMI's loss, not mine.

ANdy
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flybmi330
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:17 am

Skymonster,
bmi doesn't operate IAD-MAN or MAN-IAD on a tuesday anyways!
 
An225
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
I've been monitoring the loads for two weeks now, and C is regularly full and economy also.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but...  Confused
How can someone do that (if he is not in the airline industry)?
 
Concorde001
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting An225 (Reply 18):
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but...
How can someone do that (if he is not in the airline industry)?

Who said I wasn't in the airline industry?!
But, if you don't have access to the Amadeus system or equivalent, you can try some websites which tell you (I think)!
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:09 am

Sorry to burst some folks' bubble, but from my perspective, the 757 spells the end of the route.

Without freight, the route is a dodo - without the A330, there's insufficient freight capacity.

Plus, did anyone realise before the route was subbed out that United cannot code share on the route any longer until bi-laterals between Iceland and the US are modified ?

Another blunder at what was my favourite place of work.

Shamu
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David_itl
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 20):
United cannot code share on the route any longer until bi-laterals between Iceland and the US are modified

UA4854 from IAD is expected at 0605 - seems that those regulatory issues have been resolved!

David
 
jaysit
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:19 am

I was told that the BMI Lhr-Bom services were going at over 90% capacity, so I guess shifting the A332 to the India service was a good idea. Still the BMI A332s at Dulles will be missed.
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7LBAC111
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:07 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
There was a lot of drama here at a.net concerning BMI operating IAD-MAN with the 752, but in the real world the 752 is probably the right sized aircraft for the route

The 'drama' you refer to wasn't so much about the substitute aircraft, or the type, but about the disregard BMI have shown their loyal MAN customer base.

I have no doubt that should BMI get permission to fly further longhaul routes ex LHR, wherever they may be too, that they will siphon the aircraft away from MAN. And should they do so, then good riddance ...

7LBAC111
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BestWestern
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:39 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 20):
but from my perspective, the 757 spells the end of the route.

Couldnt agree more. BD had an opportunity to acquire a 332 this summer, but chose a 752 as their 4th aircraft.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 22):
I was told that the BMI Lhr-Bom services were going at over 90% capacity, so I guess shifting the A332 to the India service was a good idea.

Apart from the fact that the aircraft sits on the ground here at Heathrow for three days a week - completely killing any chance of profitability on the route, as they havent got their act together in flying to Saudi

Yields on BOM have collapsed since the onset of additional capacity. Early 2006 will see a second daily Jet and BA flight to BOM, alongside a increased BD and VS frequencies. BD is the weakest link here.

BD have only leased the 732 for a season - once winter comes, the route is dead, unless its kept alive by positioning a 332 to MAN x3 weekly.

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
C is regularly full.

With 10 business seats, Full = 10 passengers (2 rows on a A319). Looking at whats still available for sale (and taking the assumption that BD wont oversell a 10 seater cabin by more than 1??), C loads over the next week are as follows:

Tue - No service
Wed - 5
Thu - 8
Fri - 3
Sat - 3
Sun - 5
Mon - 5

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 23):
the disregard BMI have shown their loyal MAN customer base

I find it amazing that the more BD at heathrow loses money the more BD invest in the market. A combined A319LR / 332 fleet is perfect for growing at Manchester. BD should sell up at heathrow, and use the slot revenue to invest in new fleet and grow ex MAN - where they have no serious hubbed competition, and a much easier regulatory environment.

Looks like BMed are going to steal BD's chances here, by planning three MAN based aircraft to operate into 'near' asia.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:44 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 24):
Looks like BMed are going to steal BD's chances here, by planning three MAN based aircraft to operate into 'near' asia.

Really? What are BMed planning ex MAN?

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
col
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:58 pm

How many PAX did they turn away? From my understanding their loads with the 332 were pretty good this time of year, were when I used them. With little seat growth at MAN to the USA, they probably could have picked up some even better loads this year. And where did that freight go?
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:04 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 25):
What are BMed planning ex MAN?

Rumours of Bmed replicating some of the BA mainline 'medium haul' Heathrow routes ex Manchester (SVO, TLV, LED, CAI) using narrow-body A320's. Nearer to asia than we are  Smile

These should be routes BD invest in.

What do BA franchise carriers see in Manchester that BD dont? For decades MAN has been underserved by a home based carrier.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:04 pm

Quick question...

Why didn't bmi approach UA and ask them to place a B767 on the MAN-IAD route?

Surely it could have been flown with a UA flightcrew and BD F/As??

Replies please, in writing to the address above.....  Wink


Lee
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BestWestern
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RE: BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well

Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 28):
Why didn't bmi approach UA and ask them to place a B767 on the MAN-IAD route?

If the route was viable, BD wouldnt have hacked it back to a 757, and down to a twice weekly winter schedule! The last thing UA need is another loss making route that is profitable only three months of the year. UA are losing 767's due to defaulting on lease payments so dont have a spare aircraft.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!