GoAllegheny
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Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:14 am

This is unbelieveable - two Pinnacle (Northwest affiliate) pilots ferrying an empty Bombardier commuter jet last October decided to take it to 41'000 feet for "fun," both engines quit, plane crashed, they died. I feel sympathy for their families. However, like the drunken AmWest pilots in Florida, this gives all pilots a bad name.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050613/...on_re_us/plane_crash_investigation
 
nkops
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:18 am

Years ago (while at a different airline) we had a BE pilot roll the plane on a ferry flight to see what would happen... Needless to say he was fired.. I'm sure there are more stories like this too.
:evil:
 
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yyz717
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:24 am

Isn't the CRJ certified to 41k? If so, their altitude may not be related to the engine failure.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
DeltaA380
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:28 am

Well, at least their place in this year's Darwin Award's is assured... seems like the Pinnacle of stupidity to me.

That being said; I too feel sympathy for their friends and families.
Vote Democratic in '06 and '08
 
Kahala777
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:30 am

Northwest Airlines and its PR department have to be shaking their heads over this one!

Aloha,

Kahala777
 
NYC777
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:31 am

Did ATC ever clear them for that altitude?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
jblake1
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:42 am

Not only the ATC question, but at the FL wouldn't they have been able to glide for some period of time; and get those jets restarted? Guess we'll have to wait until the full report comes out.
 
Lee
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting Jblake1 (Reply 6):
wouldn't they have been able to glide for some period of time; and get those jets restarted? Guess we'll have to wait until the full report comes out.

exactly what i was thinking.
 
Newark777
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:52 am

There was a very long thread on this awhile back when it happened, and it seems the pilot's comment may have been taken a bit out of context. The plane was indeed certified to that altitude, so don't go crucifying the pilots right away.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
aa777jr
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:52 am

Anyone that is a member of this site knows how much you have to go through to become a pilot. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. "Lets have some fun!" Just like the HP pilots that tried to fly drunk, I don't have any sympathy for stupidity.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
Did ATC ever clear them for that altitude?

The pilots asked for the altitude, they were responsible for being up there.

The PIC of the aircraft is responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft, the controller really has no say.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
CaptTu
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:02 am

Yes the CRJ is certified to FL410.

Yes they were cleared to FL410.

The 'have some fun comment' was small talk with ATC.

Remember that the next time that something you have said was taken out of context. Hopefully you'll be around to defend yourself.

BTW... the NTSB public hearings are live starting today... scheduled to run from June 13-15 starting at 9am eastern time.

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/hearing_sched.htm

Should be some interesting proceedings.
 
FinnWings
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:04 am

Yes, they wanted to have fun and climbed to FL410... However, CRJ200 is certified for that altitude so there shouldn't be a problem at all. This is more a journalist thing again as they don't know what they are talking about. Lesson number one is that don't EVER believe what journalists write about aviation as there is almost always wrong information. This aircraft was not crashed because pilots were having fun but because they experienced flame out of both engines for some reason on normal cruise flight when flying at service ceiling. It isn't wrong to climb for a max altitude "for fun" if the plane is flown according to operation manual.

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:08 am

I think you guys should read the article more carefully before making some of these comments. Important things may be found therein, like:

(1) The plane is certified for 41,000 ft.
(2) There are strict procedures for flying that high.
(3) There is a question as to how well the pilots were trained.

It seems to me, then, that there is something else at work here. The CRJ is an advanced airplane, capable of maintaining itself within the close parameters necessary for flying at 41,000 feet. If anything, I would have questioned what the pilots did *after* the first engine failed. Don't know about you guys, but the first thing I'm doing when one engine fails at 41k is to make for a lower altitude, *as fast as I can*.

All in all, we don't know anything else. What was their airspeed when the the first engine flamed out? What was their reaction? If they had 5 to 10 minutes' glide time, why couldn't they make an airport? Did one of them "fly the airplane" while the other performed troubleshooting, or did they just lose their minds? Something is fishy here, and it's not flying the plane at its rated altitude.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting DeltaA380 (Reply 3):
Well, at least their place in this year's Darwin Award's is assured... seems like the Pinnacle of stupidity to me.

That being said; I too feel sympathy for their friends and families.

Well, it wasn't like they went nuts or suicidal. I think we can extend just a little compassion to them as well. I'm not a pilot, and obviously things went horribly wrong, but to proclaim them Darwin award winners over an incomplete investigation seems very cavalier.

Are there other airline employees reading this who feel the same as Delta380? I can't imagine getting killed on the job, perhaps due to my own fault, and having others call me a Darwin award winner.

Wierd industry.

-Dave
-Dave
 
PITrules
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:16 am

Their "stupidity" was a result of poor training by the company, and the fact that this aircraft is certified to fly at FL410, as stated in the article. These facts lead to a bad decision to fly at FL410. The "Lets have some fun" quote does not imply anything of substance, other than the crew wanting to take the opportunity to fly at FL410 when they could (with an empty airplane). A decision that shows lack of experience in this aircraft, but nothing more. Pilots know that violating "bottle to throttle" rules are illegal and unsafe. Wanting to fly an airplane at it's certified FL is not illegal and should not be unsafe either. Comparing the America West crew to this crew is ridiculous.

Stop armchair quarterbacking, and let the NTSB do the work on this one.
FLYi
 
barney captain
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:17 am

This just doesn't add up. Sure, he may have said "Let's have a little fun", but flying an aircraft to it's maximum certified altitude can hardly be considered reckless. I've never understood this accident, there seems as if something else was amiss, quite possibly through no fault of the crew. The reason ATC commented that they rarely see the CRJ that high is simple; it needs to be very light (as was the case) to achieve the higher FL's. Without knowing what else was going on, I would hardly grant these two guys the "Darwin Award", or equate them with the HP pilots in MIA.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Lee
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 13):
don't know about you guys, but the first thing I'm doing when one engine fails at 41k is to make for a lower altitude, *as fast as I can*.

i dont fly twins but i would have thought the first thing i would do would be to find a suitable airport and try and troubleshoot the problem. descending would only give you less time to find somewhere safe to land.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting DeltaA380 (Reply 3):
Well, at least their place in this year's Darwin Award's is assured... seems like the Pinnacle of stupidity to me.

pun intended? (Pinnacle Airline and Pinnacle of Stupidity)
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
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GEG
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:22 am

Has it come out why they had dual engine failure? And as why they were unsuccessful in restarting them? Was this a fuel system problem or just bad luck to happen at FL410?
I have no idea what I'm doing...
 
CaptTu
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:22 am

From http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2005/Pinnacle/agenda.htm

Witness number 8 and some of the issues that will be talked about...

Air restarts
Bombardier ‘core lock’ history
CRJ and ‘core lock’
Flight Test Procedure changes to address ‘core lock’
Flight Test Procedure data – occurrence rates
APU and 21K limitation

Core lock is something I've never heard about.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:24 am

Quoting Lee (Reply 17):
descending would only give you less time to find somewhere safe to land.

you need to get down to lower altitude for more oxygen in the air in order to restart as well as get out of "coffin corner" as the speed bleeds off with the lose of an engine.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
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GEG
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:27 am

What is core lock?

-Dan
I have no idea what I'm doing...
 
redngold
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:27 am

Coffin corner, anyone?

41K may be certified, but I wonder about the maximum airspeed at such an altitude. Regardless of the weight of the aircraft, there has to be some risk associated with pushing more than one critical factor.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
PITrules
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:53 am

core lock - The core of an engine is locked, specifically the high pressure compressor and turbine. This may happen as a result of expansion due to engine temperature limitations being exceeded, or the result of other physical damage to the engine.

coffin corner - With respect to airspeed, as altitude increases the difference between stall speed and maximum allowable airspeed decreases. At very high altitudes, the difference between stall and max. airspeed may be very small (perhaps only 10-15 knots in some aircraft). Therefore, it does not take much to exceed one of these limitations, getting one self into trouble.
FLYi
 
GoAllegheny
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:34 am

I am certain that there is more to this story than has been reported - perhaps my comparison to the AmWest pilots was wrong.

I look forward to the final report, and whether or not the pilots pushed the plane past its limits, made other errors, and to what extent the plane's design played a role. NTSB reports should be standard reading in any college or law school class on negligence.
 
kaneporta1
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:37 am

Although flying at 410 is tricky, for the reasons PITrules explained, and has been demonstrated in the past by that China Airlines 747SP that lost an engine at FL410 and barrel rolled down to FL100 before recovering, it still doesn't explain the dual engine flameout of the CRJ. Another good question is, why couldn't they land the plane? The Air Transat A330 glided for almost 200 miles, out of FL370 before landing safely. I'm not aware of the glide characteristics of a CRJ but flying over the continental United States means they had more than enough options for an emergency landing. This leads to yet another question. Was the plane actually gliding or was it stalled? Being a T-tail, it could have been a case of deep stall. That's when the wing masks the air and prevents it from getting into the engines. There are many questions to be answered but it's sad that the media have already decided that it's another case of pilot error.
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
ltbewr
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:45 am

Don't forget that this a/c was being ferried after having mechanical problems earler in that day. Going to the higher and near max certified altitude may have aggravaed the problems that happened earlier in the day. If it can be proven in audio or other recording devices of an intended decision of the pilots to go to max certified ceiling, a considerable risk with an a/c with mechanical problems and no reasonable proveable and independent mechanical problem, then probably 'pilot error' will become the main attributed cause of this crash.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:45 am

It was discussed in the earlier thread on here that "Have some fun" meant that a CRJ-200 with a Pax/fuel load would never have the wing/power to make it up to FL410. These guys, on a relatively long ferry flight with a light load via no pax, were "having fun" by getting their little CRJ up to FL410... WHICH IS CERTIFIED... and which they are never otherwise able to do because it can't make it up there with a load. Considering these guys were RJ pilots they probably started through the ranks of aviation as prop pilots and so forth, and may have never even been up to FL 410 more than a couple times... so it would be fun... and to all their indications was perfectly fine to do. If a plane is certified.. and if your weight load will let you do it.. they weren't hurting a damn thing in terms of laws/regs. If they had known the troubles they would have these troubles you can bet they would have never done it. In hindsight, maybe the CRJ shouldn't go to FL 410, maybe something else went wrong, maybe FL410 has nothing to do with the incident... unless you work for the investigative bodies you don't know, and should NOT be jumping to conclusions.

The fact that someone could try to convict these 2 poor souls of horsing around like this, and then offering them a Darwin Award, is morally disturbing to me. How would you like it if you were a friend, or family member of those 2 gentlemen and came across the post. What a few of you are doing is nothing less than libelous activity... by theory you could probably be sued... and I can guarantee if I personally knew these two pilots I'd be looking for you to let you know what I felt about your uncompassionate comments. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. These guys lost their lives, left behind family members and friends grieving, and by some indications did one hell of a job to not hit homes in the area and take down innocent lives. There is no proof they did anything wrong at all, except say the words "have some fun" which have been taken WAY out of context. Even the topic of this post is worded very insensitively... "Dead Commuter Jet Pilots 'wanted to have some fun'" What is wrong with you people, seriously? Disgusting!

Between the fact that this thread is insensitive, jumps to conclusions that nobody knows yet, AND the topic has already been discussed months ago this whole thread should probably be deleted if it weren't for the useful posts added by much more respectful individuals about things like Core Lock.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:51 am

Any of you brilliant armchair quarterbacking flightsim wanna be pilots ever think about the tempurature on that day? Sure the plane can go to FL410... but not at every weight and tempurature. There is a chart available to the pilots that will tell them if based on tempurature and weight, if that altitude is possible. Hmmm... I wonder why the engines flamed out? Perhaps lack of airspeed and excessive angle of attacks might have something to do with it.

You all need to listen to some of the hearings and READ the CVR transcript. I guarentee you'll think twice about making comments about stuff you are clueless about.

While the final report is not out... TONS of evidence is now public. It will make critical discussions that more intelligent about the issue. Training, company culture, lack of experience, pilot error, lack of professionalism, lack of accountability and lack of oversight will all be players in this unncessary and tragic accident.


AZJ
 
loggat
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:34 am

I agree with Azjubilee...

The CRJ cannot go up to FL410 with certain temps and weights. This information would be found in the supplemental performance manual. Perhaps these pilots did not think about this fact and never consulted the charts. One of many theories.

The ERJ is certified to FL370 at all weights and temps so it's never an issue.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
bucky707
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:55 am

I would not read too much into the "have some fun" comment. One of the best and most professional captains I ever flew with would make the comment "lets go have fun" before he pushed the power up on every take off.
 
jeb94
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:02 am

Where an aircraft is certified to fly is often more a pressurization deal. The MD80 for instance is certified to fl370 but is capable of flying higher. The cabin won't maintain ideal pressure though. Its cabin pressure that tends to dictate where passenger aircraft fly. Where does the corporate versions of the CRJ routinely fly? you'll probably find that the Global Express and Challenger usually fly around fl410. The engines should've been fine at that altitude so the real question is, what happened to the engines and why couldn't the pilots maintain control long enough to land?
 
AMSSFO
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:17 am

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 29):
READ the CVR transcript.

Is it already available online somewhere? Can't find it.
 
lowrider
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:07 am

Having read the transcript and being somewhat familiar with the CRJ, it comes down to this: The aircraft was allowed to get too slow at 41. The crew did not maintain the minimum climb speed. The aircraft arrived at 410 behind the power curve and was unable to accelerate or even maintain speed. The resulting stall disrupted airflow into the engines causing them to fail. The crew was able to maintain control of the aircraft due to the ADG, but failed to follow the proper proceedure for a dual engine failure and the subsiquent attempted relight. It was not a failing of the aircraft nor of the pilot's judgment in electing to climb to 410, but rather a failure to adhere to the standards set forth for the safe operation of the aircraft. It is a sad case to be sure, but, within the CRJ community, climb profiles, high altitude stalls, and high altitude flight characteristics have recieved much more attention and have been revisited more often. Out of self-preservation, pilots and operators have moved to correct the problem, far ahead of the lumbering government machinery.
Proud OOTSK member
 
travatl
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:13 am

All of this JUDGEMENT by immature, ignorant, blowhards is why I've come to loathe a.net. These men perished...yet so many here are quick to point out their "stupidity"... Ugh.

They thought they were operating within safe margins.
Something went wrong.
They died.

Show some respect you jackasses.

Travis
 
B744F
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:33 am

So what if they made a comment like wanting to have fun? What's the big deal? There were no passengers and they just had to get the airplane from one point to the next. It seems they did not know the correct procedures and this caused their tragic deaths, but lets not go overboard with the judgements. Being a pilot might seem fun and exciting all the time, but after a while it becomes like any other job, and joking around is allowed. But again, it wasn't their attempts at humor that killed them, rather their lack of proper procedures.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:44 am

hard to believe...and very sad.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:48 am

Travatl - sometimes the truth hurts. Let's not burry our heads in the sand and ignore the problems shall we? As a pilot we always learn from those who unfortunately paid the ultimate price. I mean no disrespect two these two pilots, but I'm not going to roll the facts around in sugar and pretend they didn't have some serious issues that night.


AZJ
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:02 am

I can't find the transcript...what is the link to it?


This "core lock" thing is interesting. Doesn't exactly negate the fact that many many things were done wrong that night.


Remember, the FO was 23 years old... young guy just like many of us. Jesse, the captain who I flew with just a few days prior to the accident, was married, had 2 kids and a 3rd one on the way. Remember these are human beings you are bashing. We all make mistakes...and unfortunately sometimes you pay the ultimate price for your mistakes.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
boeingpride800
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:32 am

Man. just goes to show you that people can be so stupid sometimes.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:40 am

XFSU -

You'll find all the info at www.ntsb.gov



AZJ

[Edited 2005-06-14 03:41:04]
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:37 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 9):
Just like the HP pilots that tried to fly drunk, I don't have any sympathy for stupidity.

And I don't have any sympathy for liars. But hey  Wink For an "attorney" you sure do seem to jump to conclusions rather quickly...
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
ikramerica
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:47 am

Quoting FinnWings (Reply 12):
Lesson number one is that don't EVER believe what journalists write about aviation as there is almost always wrong information.

True about most things, not just aviation. Most journalists have very little education beyond journalism classes, and there, you don't learn much. Yet they report on everything they are assigned to, and do the minimum possible to please the editor. Truth and knowledge do not enter the equation.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Newark777
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:53 am

And I don't have any sympathy for liars. But hey Wink For an "attorney" you sure do seem to jump to conclusions rather quickly...

If he had been the pilot, he probably would have tried to make an emergency landing at ETA.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
qwerty
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:05 pm

This is the boomerang thread. It just keeps coming back.

I think the only take away from this incident is that 41k or not, whatever this or that:

41,000 is plenty of vertical real estate to get down safely.

That's where I focus, so there has to something we all don't know about BECAUSE a double out that high in that small(er) type could have been put down in many, many places safely. There is much we do not, or may not ever, know.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:17 pm

Here's an interesting explanation of "core lock." Take this information and apply it to the CVR transcript and you can see WHY there was a dual engine failure. Take it further and one can deduce why they perhaps couldn't get them restarted.


Took the link out... it was broken for some reason. A good link is posted below.



AZJ

[Edited 2005-06-14 05:28:50]
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:17 pm

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 29):
Any of you brilliant armchair quarterbacking flightsim wanna be pilots ever think about the tempurature on that day? Sure the plane can go to FL410... but not at every weight and tempurature. There is a chart available to the pilots that will tell them if based on tempurature and weight, if that altitude is possible. Hmmm... I wonder why the engines flamed out? Perhaps lack of airspeed and excessive angle of attacks might have something to do with it.

You all need to listen to some of the hearings and READ the CVR transcript. I guarentee you'll think twice about making comments about stuff you are clueless about.

While the final report is not out... TONS of evidence is now public. It will make critical discussions that more intelligent about the issue. Training, company culture, lack of experience, pilot error, lack of professionalism, lack of accountability and lack of oversight will all be players in this unncessary and tragic accident.

After reading this sensible post, and your RR of 23, I must say you deserve al least twice your RR.

Great ....thumbs up

Best regards
TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
Newark777
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RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:20 pm

Here's an interesting explanation of "core lock." Take this information and apply it to the CVR transcript and you can see WHY there was a dual engine failure. Take it further and one can deduce why they perhaps couldn't get them restarted.

The link is broken. Hopefully you can post a better one, since I am looking forward to read it.  Smile

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
CaptTu
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:24 pm

RE: Dead Commuter Jet Pilots "wanted To Have Fun"

Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:23 pm

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/A...temid=1616&ModuleId=1316&Tabid=256

Only one page of info... but it gets the point across.