Usairwys757
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Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:27 pm

They had mainline service once before if I'm not mistaken. I think UA would do well there with mainline service to ORD or maybe even a flight to DEN. I believe there is a flight to Denver on UA Express, but isnt that a big enough route to have mainline service??

Just a hunch.

Or maybe even TED service??

[Edited 2005-06-14 06:36:05]
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:36 pm

$$$$$$$. That's what everything is about.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:23 pm

Mainline UA flew to RDU for about 35 years, but pulled out after the 9/11 attacks. They flew 4-6 737's/727's/A32x flights/day to ORD and also hourly UAX CRJ's to IAD just prior to 9/11.

RDU was (and maybe still is) UAX's largest city (# of pax wise). In the Fall of 2003 (last time I saw data), it would have been UA's 36th largest doemstic station with it's number of pax. That put RDU ahead of many UAL stations like GSO, CLT, RIC, CVG, and many smaller Western cities. (CLT has since added many flights, namely DEN and IAD in support of the UA/US codeshare.) RDU also had the highest percentage of premium pax of any UAX station (again from Fall '03 data)

UAX did serve DEN with YV CR7's for about 6 months but abandoned it. When I worked there, it had chronic weight restrictions out of RDU due to the 4+ hours stage length. Often it had to make a fuel stop in MCI or either leave 20 pax behind. Add to that the fact that it was always full and delayed and it did not add up to exactly what UA was looking for.

JI also served DEN n/s with 2x 737's from RDU in 2000-2001. It was one of JI's better yeilding routes with all the cargo they used to carry on the route.

Unfortunately I don't see UA coming back anytime soon. They don't usually return to cities they have pulled out of. I wish they would though since I work for UA now. Maybe when ZW finishes up the ground handling there, UA will come back...fingers crossed...but I doubt it.

UsAirways757 I see you are from SYR...another market I'm surprised UA ditched...

[Edited 2005-06-14 08:29:34]
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apodino
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 2):
Maybe when ZW finishes up the ground handling there, UA will come back...fingers crossed...but I doubt it.

Considering that ZW will still be ground handling there for the foreseeable future (United is keeping ZW as the handling agent in RDU even after they stop flying for UAX), a mainline return seems unlikely.

That having been said, UA is going to have a hard time replacing some seats into there. RDU-ORD has been a 146 route for years, and the planes are always full on that route, even when using the 100 seat 146's, of which zw has 5. 170's don't have the capacity. I think United would be better to run some of their own metal into this station, but, I doubt Mainline will be anyplace but the biggest airports in the near future. Enjoy the RJ's.
 
Womack17
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:40 pm

I still don't believe that UA has given the RDU service enough respect. In all my flight experiences with UA both departing from RDU and arriving into RDU my trips have always been shared with other pax on fully loaded aircraft. The hourly RDU-IAD flights did well regardless of the aircraft type used. The CRJ's, J41's, 146's and J32's were always packed. To paraphrase an old cliche it seems to me that United has a history at RDU of cutting off their noses to despite their faces. Before 9/11 UA had a 735 that departed RDU around 1730 and made a stop at ORD before continuing the flight to the west coast. On this particular flight the pax were treated to full dinner service to RDU and then another full dinner flight to the West coast.
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ERJ170
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:07 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 1):
$$$$$$$. That's what everything is about.

What do you mean by $$? RDU's full of premium members for all airlines (except WN which does not offer such services).. As a 50/50 business/leisure station, RDU is the location where most airlines want to put some sort of F class service. Which is why airlines line United and Air Canada are looking at putting F/J class service aircraft at RDU. They may not be mainline, but they are aircraft with F and/or J class as they see the importance of having such amenities for customer loyalty.

UA mainline may not return (unless Texas Pacific or the 2 ex-CEOs take over), but F/J class will return (if they already haven't) on most routes with their CR7 (and/or E70 should they come). Why mainline left in the first place at RDU and not other stations is a mystery to me.. but UA has a history of making moves that isn't necessary a "real world" move and sticking to it for some reason.. Should UA decide to re-start DEN or, heaven forbid SFO, I would hope they would use their loophole to bring some mainline in on those routes. oh well. UAL will not get my business, but that's just because I don't like them and never had a good experience. But I just had to throw that in there..  Smile
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Bicoastal
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:13 pm

United mainline doesn't have equipment available for any expansion. They're still getting rid of some 737-300s and 737-500s. Until they buy more planes...post bankruptcy...then don't hold your breath for anything but Express expansion.
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BigGSFO
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:59 pm

RDU is SJC of the Southeast. Heavy tech. When/if the tech market recovers then you'll see more mainline. AA was going to link the two cities a couple of years ago with 738, but those plans were shelved.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:18 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 7):
RDU is SJC of the Southeast. Heavy tech.

RDU is kinda mid in the tech.. Nano tech is starting to rise here. Some big companies like SAS, Nortel (which isn't doing well), IBM (which isn't doing well), Cisco, Lovetro, etc..

RDU is more heavily in the pharmaceutical and biotech. There is some financial.

RDU is also heavy in education and educational endeavors.

SJC truly was very heavy tech, a lot more so than RDU. RDU-SJC has been tried by at least 2 airlines, I think (Midway, Southwest).. and all attempts failied. I believe that the route would have been more profitable and steadfast had either attempted RDU-SFO/OAK.. That would have been a more business/leisure route (which RDU is better utilized for) more so than SJC, which would have been a majority business route.
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FlyPIJets
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:16 am

It is really too bad that UAL couldn't hold on to RDU. There is always going to be talk of a need for RDU --> LAX and/or SFO and of all the carriers, UA is best situated to make one of those successful.

My thinking is that the tech industry in the Triangle generates a significant amount of transpac demand. So, a UA flight to either LAX or SFO would fulfill the RDU O&D to Cali as well as feed Transpac.

(I have always wondered if the RDU LAX O&D is a little skewed because of RDU transpac holding multi-tickets).

And, for what it is worth, back in the 70's, UAL had one stop service to LAX from RDU. I believe the stop was in Huntsville.
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Womack17
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:41 pm

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 9):
And, for what it is worth, back in the 70's, UAL had one stop service to LAX from RDU. I believe the stop was in Huntsville.

RDU-HSV-LAX????? No wonder UA is in bankruptcy. What's the O&D for RDU-HSV and HSV-LAX? - and that's taking into account the famed Space Camp.  wideeyed 
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ejmmsu
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:59 pm

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 10):
RDU-HSV-LAX????? No wonder UA is in bankruptcy. What's the O&D for RDU-HSV and HSV-LAX? - and that's taking into account the famed Space Camp.

This was back in the 70's during regulation. What they did then has no bearing on their financial situation now.
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iowaman
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RE: Why No UA Mainline At RDU?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:05 pm

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 10):
RDU-HSV-LAX????? No wonder UA is in bankruptcy. What's the O&D for RDU-HSV and HSV-LAX? - and that's taking into account the famed Space Camp.

That was in the 70's so things were much different.

As far as UA not having mainline especially to DEN, I don't really understand that, other than as previously said aircraft availabiltiy is an issue and I'm speculating WN has hurt yields with the ATA codeshare through MDW.