padcrasher
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Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:05 pm

Looks like JFK-LAX going down to 5 flights from 7 after Summer.

JFK-SEA only going to 2 flights not 3.

JFK-SFO stays at 3.

I would expect new routes to be announced in place of these reductions.
 
flyguy1
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:07 pm

Quoting Padcrasher (Thread starter):

Looks like JFK-LAX going down to 5 flights from 7 after Summer.

JFK-SEA only going to 2 flights not 3.

JFK-SFO stays at 3.

Extra freq. to FLA. FLL will go from 5, to 8 daily, for example.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:15 pm

SFO was planned at 5, then 4, now 3 frequencies.

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 1):
Extra freq. to FLA. FLL will go from 5, to 8 daily, for example.

So you think some of this is seasonal? Surely, not all of it as SEA and SFO never reach the initial number of flights planned.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:16 pm

Standard Fall reductions I'd imagine since traffic falls off a cliff come August 20.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:19 pm

Whoa. I did not see that 8 flights from 4 JFK-FLL. I'd imagine other Florida markets see more flights.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:45 pm

Well while LAX traffic doesn't tend to fluctuate that much month to month, the type of traveler does. Leisure more in summer, business more in other 8 months. At least that's how I understand it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
uswyjer
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:50 pm

With BDL-LAX, BOS-LAX, and BOS-SFO starting up in September, this probably will help to free up some aircraft, granted Song does have their last 757s coming online at the time.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:53 pm

The SEA route reduction does not surprise me at all. One flight would be enough since the leisure market to SEA is so seasonal. The flights in the summer are always full because of the cruise traffic to Alaska, but in the winter, no one in their right mind would visit the rainy city. Those planes would earn a lot more by taking people to Florida, which is probably what DL is going after.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:33 pm

it probably is a seasonal reduction. plus not to mention a good time to get the a/c's into maintenance mode for check ups and stuff before the busy winter flying.

~B6FA4ever
 
LAXintl
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:32 pm

No surprise. Song has had a rough beginning to date on the JFK-LAX run.

Until last weekend it was offering $99 fares good for travel thru the end of August, which upset the market pricing for all airlines which were finally offering higher historically "normalized" fares this summer.

Songs plan was to maintain 7 flights year around, however no sooner did the new service begin that I did hear rumblings of schedule reductions as advance bookings/revenue projections were not close to targets.

Eventually would not be surprised DL give up the transcon market completely ex JFK. Song was to be Delta's last attempt to maintain its toe in the market following mainline inability to compete successfully. If Song can barely maintain the JFK-LAX service, I do not see how it will be able to offer a profitable product from BDL and BOS.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jrlander
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:57 pm

Of course- the $99 fare from LAX-JFK originated when B6 entered the NYC-LA market....
DL will not give up the transcon market from JFK.
 
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mariner
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:11 pm

Quoting Jrlander (Reply 10):
DL will not give up the transcon market from JFK.

Why not? If it isn't making money, why will they not give it up?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:47 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
I do not see how it will be able to offer a profitable product from BDL and BOS.

Delta tried and failed twice on transcon routes out of Boston. What makes this time different? Mostly, the incumbents AA and UA are flying fewer seats between BOS-LAX and BOS-SFO than ever before. For goodness sakes, AA is using 737s (!). When DL tried years ago, it was when the markets were awash in seats. Now, with decidedly weaker competitors in AA and UA and fewer seats between them, I think Song can make a go of this. If they can't, they (DL) should abandon all hopes of EVER succeeding with transcon again.

Chris in NH
 
LAXintl
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:59 pm

Delta has tried many variations of a transcons thru the years. There was even a period when it operated 3 daily LAX-EWR flights using B762s.

Entering the JFK-LAX with 7 daily Song flights is a tall order to fill, considering mainline only had 3-4 daily flights prior. In addition Song remains still nearly unknown name in California. A major marketing blitz is needed if they hope to build the name and counter the publics perception that low fare to NYC means Jetblue.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 12):
Delta tried and failed twice on transcon routes out of Boston. What makes this time different? Mostly, the incumbents AA and UA are flying fewer seats between BOS-LAX and BOS-SFO than ever before.

Indeed AA and UA have reduced their BOS-California services, but one must keep in mind the market is no longer solely theirs. Jetblue has joined the two legacy carriers offering 3 daily flights to Long Beach and Oakland each, certainly making up for the reduction in capacity by AA/UA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Jamake1
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:08 pm

Personally, I thought it was rather silly of Song/Delta to be saturating the JFK-westcoast market further with such a high number of daily frequencies to begin with.

With UA and AA firmly established between LAX/SFO and JFK, and Jet Blue firmly established between LGB/OAK and JFK; and all three carriers with significant daily frequencies, I couldn't understand the rationale behind Song's attempt to chase already deluded yields in the transcon market.

In this day and age, it is better to put one's resources to markets where dominance has already been achieved.
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:11 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
Song has had a rough beginning to date on the JFK-LAX run.

What's so rough? I've monitored the loads, nothing seems out of the ordinary. It's not even up to full compliment yet. And the service is so new. I would think word of mouth alone would make a huge difference in a Year's time.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:12 pm

Quoting Uswyjer (Reply 6):
With BDL-LAX, BOS-LAX, and BOS-SFO starting up in September, this probably will help to free up some aircraft, granted Song does have their last 757s coming online at the time.

But some of the aircraft for these routes should come from the cancellation of JFK-RSW and EWR-MCO.

I'm not really surprised by these reductions. I think DL was overdoing it on some of these routes and dumping an insane amount of capacity. It's probably better if they add some different routes, instead of flooding the existing markets.
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:17 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 14):
I couldn't understand the rationale behind Song's attempt to chase already deluded yields in the transcon market.

If you're going to be a player in NYC you must do these routes. Additionally, Delta needs a presence in these markets to feed JFK International flights as the traffic is significant.

A Song 757 has a CASM 65% to 60% of what AA has in the market.
You can already see what JB did to AA w/MRTC and F class in the LGB/ONT markets.

Song has a great chance as well. And I hear HP is pulling their flights out.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:28 pm

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 15):
What's so rough?

The Song marketing folks never tought they would have to offer $99 fares beyond the first month. Now they had to do it thru the end of August. This managed to skew all the actual and projected route revenue. Also having AA match the Song introduction fares dollar for dollar between LA-JFK did not help either, as new consumers were not really shifted away from others onto Song.

Much of the assumption was based on previous summer mainline transcon loads. It was felt the added Song capacity could be absorbed easily, however bookings fell instead of increasing with the additional seats. I would attribute this to both a lack of name recognition and the above mentioned fare matching.

I believe Song has realized the roll out did not go as per plan and wisely have decided there is no way to maintain 7 flights during the winter when leisure travel drops. If not the $99 fare would likely have become a year around Song event which would not allow for any profitability.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
laca773
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:40 pm

I hope Song succeeds on their new LAX/SFO-JFK-LAX/SFO runs. They have a much better product than AA, and though 7 flights a day is a lot, 5 seems like a much more rational number. If you want preium cabin service then you can go with UA "ps" product.

BTW, how are Songs loads so far on their transcons? How's B6 doing on their BUR trips? Has it made a small dent in the JFK market out of LAX?

Regards,
LACA773
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:11 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 19):
I hope Song succeeds on their new LAX/SFO-JFK-LAX/SFO runs. They have a much better product than AA, and though 7 flights a day is a lot, 5 seems like a much more rational number.

I agree, and hope Song can start making money on their TransCon routes.  Big grin
 
tsnamm
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 17):
And I hear HP is pulling their flights out

Actually HP's non stops JFK/LAX are doing very well...the SFO flight was cut, but LAX went from 1 to 2 daily flights and has been stable...
 
rwsea
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:16 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
The SEA route reduction does not surprise me at all. One flight would be enough since the leisure market to SEA is so seasonal. The flights in the summer are always full because of the cruise traffic to Alaska, but in the winter, no one in their right mind would visit the rainy city. Those planes would earn a lot more by taking people to Florida, which is probably what DL is going after.

True as far as tourism ... but there's still the O&D traffic and quite a bit of folks in SEA use DL to connect to Europe. They've been able to keep 2x mainline year-round, so I'd expect at least 2x Song year-round as well. They'll definitely keep the 8:30 departure to connect to Europe. Is the second departure being kept the red-eye or the late morning?
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 21):
Actually HP's non stops JFK/LAX are doing very well...the SFO flight was cut, but LAX went from 1 to 2 daily flights and has been stable

I read that with the new US/HP merger that this route was going to be axed.
I'm not able to source it, despite my google search.

But what's the proof HP is doing well? They had a 55% domestic load factor compared to AA's 82% for January. In Feb it was 62%. They yield the lowest of any carrier in the market $157 in the 3Q 04.

Those are money losing numbers.
 
tsnamm
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:56 am

HP staff here at JFK says nothing but good things about the flights...I know their break even numbers are lower than AA and UA...plus the mail and cargo revenue from the flights are very good...even though its just an A319 , they fill up the bellies every flt...from what I hear locally here they are happy with the way the flight s are going...now whether that translates into continuing service after the merger...that remains to be seen...but from what I've heard from HP here at JFK , they're happy with the results of the LAX flts...
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
No surprise. Song has had a rough beginning to date on the JFK-LAX run.

No they haven't. Song has been outperforming mainline. It's a tough market, but Song is doing twice as good as mainline is/was on the route. The initial goal is being met. Please don't tell me you expected Song to come in and make a profit on the route through the transition period. It will likely take 4-6 months.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
The Song marketing folks never tought they would have to offer $99 fares beyond the first month.

Song isn't controlling the price in the market. There is always an introductory fare offered at the outset of service for a 30-60 days. However in highly competitive markets you can't allow yourself to be outpriced even when service is offered at a co-terminal.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
SongStar
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:39 am

Still believe, from what i hear, this is simple fall reductions....the schedule was pulled down 40% last year and everyone was crying foul..."it's over for song..etc" ...so just sit back and watch....you might just be VERY surprised...  Smile

ss

flysong.com
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:42 am

Quoting SongStar (Reply 26):
Still believe, from what i hear, this is simple fall reductions....the schedule was pulled down 40% last year and everyone was crying foul..."it's over for song..etc" ...so just sit back and watch....you might just be VERY surprised...

Partially fall reductions. Some are permanent though. However the aircraft will be utilized. Song will be having their annual Songapalooza event (for Song employees only) in September to better coordinate employees attendance with the month that operations are scaled down.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
FA4B6
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:54 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 19):
How's B6 doing on their BUR trips?

from what I see very well. since we started BUR, I've done several BUR flights and they've all been as full as possible [full JFK-BUR, full, but capped, BUR-JFK].

The response from the customers is tremendously positive. They all seem to hate LAX and they all seem to love B6 and the B6 product. Everyone is really excited about us being at BUR. Actually, I had the pleasure of working BUR-JFK this morning actually on our newest a/c N612JB.

I wonder if, slots permitting, jetBlue would try SNA and severely cap the flight or something. Could it work?
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
alphascan
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 23):
But what's the proof HP is doing well? They had a 55% domestic load factor compared to AA's 82% for January. In Feb it was 62%. They yield the lowest of any carrier in the market $157 in the 3Q 04.

I don't know anyone who thinks load factor in and of itself is any indication of how well a carrier is performing.

But if you are going to spew numbers to try to make yourself look right, you may as well use accurate ones AND tell the whole story.

HP's January load factor was 74.4%. http://www.shareholder.com/americawe...ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=154811 You'll find that info under a headline titled "America West Reports Record January Traffic".

They do not break their load factor down by domestic and international flying but taking into consideration HP's limited international ASM's, there is no way your phantom number of 55% could be anywhere near reality.

HP's February load factor was 75.6%. http://www.shareholder.com/americawe...ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=157297 You'll find that info under a headline titled "America West Reports Record February Traffic".


Furthermore, their 1Q load factor was a record 77.7% and the quarter was PROFITABLE! http://www.shareholder.com/americawe...ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=160772 What more "proof" do you need. I will go out on a limb and say that HP was the only carrier in the JFK/LAX market to be profitable. Where are Song's numbers?

Then you go on and bring up yield from 3Q. Yield is measured in cents , not dollars. I have no clue where you dreamed up $157! While it is true HP has one of the lowest yields in the industry, their CASM in that and subsequent quarters has been among the industry's lowest.

The WHOLE picture PAD!

I am no HP proponent, but I do not like to see people "make up" numbers to try to be right. Start sourceing your spew.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:29 am

alpha

I took the numbers from a DOT traffic database for the Months of Jan and Feb. The DOT also publishes a Domestic Air fare report that shows HP had an average yield of $157 in the JFK-LAX market.

Care to rethink your post?
 
HarvardMan99
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:15 am

I just hope that they continue to build on their current network. Any expansion of SONG is great news. Probably the BEST travel experience I've ever had on an airline in the USA. SONG folks have the right attitude........Jet Blue has nothing on these people. They closed the door early, arrived early, friendly staff, safe operation and clean airplanes at a fair price. Wished that they flew to more places. Other airlines should take note.
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:20 am

Wow. Nice kudos. What route did you fly?
 
Gabrielz
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:29 am

The critical thing about the SFO/LAX-JFK routes is *premium traffic*. For the past 20+ years, these transcons kicked off cash in every direction. It is, after all, one of the only domestic routes with consistent, paid biz/first class traffic, and the only one that really warrants 3 classes of service all day, every day, all year.

In this regard, the routes are not comparable to any other in the country, including SEA-BUR-SNA-ONT-OAK-SJC. They just don't have the same revenues, yields or premium class traffic.

When you look closely at the revenue mix for the flights, you also find something very interesting about people in Economy: the vast majority of passengers are not "leisure" pax in the strictest sense of the word. It's the kind of business travel density that one typically sees on shorthaul routes between major European biz airports (think LCY-AMS).

Because of the market's dynamic, JetBlue and Song could fly 10 flights a day between LAX and JFK (or SFO and JFK) and not fill them. UA and AA live and die by their corporate/SAG contracts, and DL/B9/HP will have absolutely no effect on their business, because they will not be able to snag those clients. OAK/BUR/SNA are not the same thing.  Smile

 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:35 am

I agree with what you say to some extent. But this is not the market it was 5 years ago, much less 10 years ago. AA's average fare is $300 and going lower.
Corporate Sales Agreement are becoming less and less a factor. Delta knows it's giving up what little they had in premium revenue. They hope to make it up with a CASM 60% of what AA must deal with and a better coach product.
 
travelin man
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:38 am

Quoting Gabrielz (Reply 33):
UA and AA live and die by their corporate/SAG contracts, and DL/B9/HP will have absolutely no effect on their business

While I agree that UA and AA have the lion's share of corporate/entertainment contracts, I disagree with the assertion that the other players have "absolutely no effect" on UA/AA's business. In fact, one could argue the new entrants have already had an effect by depressing yields on Economy travel between LAX and JFK. While this will not kill UA/AA, it certainly does not help them (witness AA's attempt to thwart B6 at LGB).

I do agree with the rest of your post, however. AA and UA command the premium market (and the lion's share of frequent flyers). B6, DL, and HP are left to fight for the rest (with CO serving its niche from EWR). B6, however, has the consumer loyalty/brand identification at both ends of the route (with "hubs" in both LGB and JFK). This is something neither DL nor HP has. (DL does not have the loyalty in SoCal, and HP doesn't have it at either end.) I'd give the upper hand to B6 at the moment, out of those three airlines on the route.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:42 am

Quoting Gabrielz (Reply 33):
Because of the market's dynamic, JetBlue and Song could fly 10 flights a day between LAX and JFK (or SFO and JFK) and not fill them. UA and AA live and die by their corporate/SAG contracts, and DL/B9/HP will have absolutely no effect on their business, because they will not be able to snag those clients.

That's totally false. It's been shown that more and more business travelers are flying LCCs, especially B6. UA's premium traffic has definitely declined, going from 767s to 757 and A319/A320s and having multiple frequency cuts. AA has held their own, but their business has also declined. JFK/EWR-LAX/ONT/SNA doesn't pull in the yields that it used to.

Jeremy
 
alphascan
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 30):
alpha

I took the numbers from a DOT traffic database for the Months of Jan and Feb. The DOT also publishes a Domestic Air fare report that shows HP had an average yield of $157 in the JFK-LAX market.

Care to rethink your post?

Do I care to rethink my post? Not at all.

First, source your numbers. As I did.

If you think the DOT numbers are more accurate than what the carrier reports, read a newspaper. Ever heard of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act? If they misreport their performance, senior management goes to jail. DOT stats are notoriously flawed because they rely on random ticket pulls. But I would still like to see your source because your numbers are so far off I seriously doubt your credibility.

Secondly, you have no clue as to what yield is. $157 could be a credible number for an average one way fare. But it sure isn't a yield number. "Yield" is determined by dividing passenger revenues by revenue passenger miles.

The thing is Padcrasher, if you won't admit your mistakes you can't learn from them. And you will continue to spew false info to make yourself look right, when in actuality it makes you look like a fool.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:35 pm

You're still in left field Alpha

My post had to do with a particular market and you took it to mean system load factor. The proceeded get all hot and bothered, and posted totally unrelated system traffic data from HP's press release.....get a clue.


Read slower next time otherwise you'll just put your foot in your mouth again.

My point stands....little boy.
 
alphascan
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:47 pm

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 23):
They had a 55% domestic load factor compared to AA's 82% for January. In Feb it was 62%. They yield the lowest of any carrier in the market $157 in the 3Q 04.



Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 38):
My post had to do with a particular market and you took it to mean system load factor.

Type slower next time otherwise you'll just put your foot in your mouth again and continue to be the fool.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
padcrasher
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:56 pm

The DOT market data is separated. Domestic in one database, Intl in the other. Hence I gave only the domestic load factor in that particular market unless you think they get significant International business....What does their press release say?...LOL

Do you need help with this? I can help..just ask nicely next time. Otherwise continue making an ass of yourself. You have that right.
 
laca773
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:59 pm

How is UA's "ps" doing? I feel their product is much better than AA's by a long shot, and they are really trying.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Song Scales Back West Coast Flights

Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:42 pm

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 25):
No they haven't. Song has been outperforming mainline. It's a tough market, but Song is doing twice as good as mainline is/was on the route. The initial goal is being met. Please don't tell me you expected Song to come in and make a profit on the route through the transition period. It will likely take 4-6 months.

No agreed it takes time to build a market and especially in the case of Song whom must also build a name. Just marketing thinking was things were going to be stronger sooner then what has occurred to date.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 25):
Song isn't controlling the price in the market. There is always an introductory fare offered at the outset of service for a 30-60 days. However in highly competitive markets you can't allow yourself to be outpriced even when service is offered at a co-terminal.

In this case Song was very much controlling the price. The intro $99 rates were to be initially thru May, however based on softer then hoped for advance bookings Song had to extend the offer for travel thru the end of August.
Song was not underpriced by any airline in the market. Jetblue, AA, UA, America West were offering their cheapest summer fares of in the region of $300 which is a much more normalized fare. Obviously when Song come up with the $99 offer the carriers and particularly AA matched them.
What happened with everyone matching Songs introduction fares under similar terms, Song was unable to shift very little of the traffic onto itself as people remained committed to whatever airline they had in mind already.

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 17):
Additionally, Delta needs a presence in these markets to feed JFK International flights as the traffic is significant.

Song was not particularly designed to feed mainline. Its instead more of a stand along operation. To highlight this, DL even informed their European sales/reservations to warn passengers if they sell any connections onto Song at JFK. Basically passengers are to be warned that it is not mainline, and the available services (meals etc..) are different. Instead it has been encouraged to feed passengers via Atlanta to the new West Coast Song destinations, were the customer can have a standard product across the board.
Obviously the lack of premium seats will also cause the loss of business passengers whom might have had NY as part of their itinerary on the way to the West Coast. Again in this case Europe sales is trying to route premium West Coast traffic over ATL to best extend possible.
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