teahan
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Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:55 pm

Noël Forgeard announced Air Cairo has ordered 6 A318s (+2 options)

Source: AFP

[Edited 2005-06-15 12:56:40]
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BestWestern
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:57 pm

That one came from the blue!

Air Who?
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teahan
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:58 pm

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GVBIG
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:59 pm

Don't they operate A321s or Tu204s just now?
Horus will be delighted  Wink
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PRGLY
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:00 pm

Wooow Airbus narrow body order number 2, makes 320 family ordered at 14, a little less than 737, but we shall see......
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WINGS
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:08 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
That one came from the blue!

I second that. Its great to see that the baby Airbus still manages to sweep up some new and important orders.

Regards,
Wings
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:10 pm

Good to see the A318 gain another new operator after IB earlier this year. Incremental orders like this should continue to underpin the model.

Regards
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Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:20 am

Great News

I'll just post what I said in the post I made:

Air Cairo (partially owned by Egyptair) was formed in 2003 to take over from the defunct Shorouk Airways. Until now the charter airline have been using 2 ex-Egyptair A321s for flights to Europe however as the new A318s arrive, the airline will take over Egyptair's domestic and selected regional flights (like BEY, DAM, AMM). The A318s are seen to be better suited to these markets.

In 2003, Egyptair/Air Cairo indicated they were interested in ordering 50-seat regional jets/turboprops for use on domestic services which saw them consider the ERJ-145, CRJ200 and Dash-8. All 3 aircraft made demonstration flights for the airlines at CAI and LXR. Egyptair then leased 6 ATR-42s (3 from Tarom and 3 from Air Littoral) for 6 month periods to test their suitability and operations on domestic routes. Then came 2004 when Egyptair underwent significant restructuring and put an RJ order on hold. Finally earlier this year both airlines began reconsidering the use of smaller aircraft. At the Avex Airshow in Sharm El Sheikh Airbus (A319), Embraer (Embraer 170) and Bombardier (CRJ700) were given the opportunity to demonstrate their products. Now almost 2 years after initial plans were made, Air Cairo have decided the A318 is the best aircraft for them.

The airline which is 61% owned by Egyptair will continue to operate charter flights but the new jets will allow them to take over and expand MS's domestic/regional routes.


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Interesting to note that Egyptair originally ordered 5 A318s but following problems with the P&W engine, they converted the order to the larger A320.



It seems like a very good few weeks for Egyptian airlines. Egyptair order 12 B738s, AMC Airline also opt for 6 B738s, Orca Air announce the resumption of service with a fleet of 6 SAAB 340s and now Air Cairo order 6 A318s!


Horus

p.s. it seems Arab airline will dominate orders at the Paris Air Show
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B742
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:25 am

WOW, didn't expect this, totally out of the blue!

That's a Egyptair and Air Cairo order within a month, great news for Egyptian aviation!

Horus, where do Air Cairo fly from SSH to, I saw two Air Cairo A321's at SSH in April?

Are these going to be PW powered?

Where will Air Cairo fly these new A318's to?

Rob!

[Edited 2005-06-15 17:26:27]
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
That one came from the blue!

No not really, as I stated above the airline have been considering 100 seaters for a few months now  Wink

Quoting GVBIG (Reply 3):
Don't they operate A321s or Tu204s just now?

They currently operate two leased A321s from Egyptair (their parent company).

The airline have never operated Tu-204s. The 'old' Air Cairo, now known as Cairo Aviation operate the Tu-204s...confusing a bit, I know

Old name (Air Cairo).........New name (Cairo Aviation):

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Quoting GVBIG (Reply 3):
Horus will be delighted Wink

Indeed I am...since Saturday when the order was placed.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):
I second that. Its great to see that the baby Airbus still manages to sweep up some new and important orders.



Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 6):
Good to see the A318 gain another new operator after IB earlier this year. Incremental orders like this should continue to underpin the model

Definitely good news for Airbus. Anyone know how many A318s have been ordered and how many have been delivered?


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:37 am

Hey Rob! How's it goin?

Quoting B742 (Reply 8):

That's a Egyptair and Air Cairo order within a month, great news for Egyptian aviation!

You can say that again Big grin
Don't forget about Orca Air and the 6 SAAB 340s  Wink

Quoting B742 (Reply 8):
Horus, where do Air Cairo fly from SSH to, I saw two Air Cairo A321's at SSH in April?

At the moment Air Cairo only fly charter flights from various tourist hotspots in Egypt to Europe.

Quoting B742 (Reply 8):
Are these going to be PW powered?

That hasn't been announced yet.

Quoting B742 (Reply 8):
Where will Air Cairo fly these new A318's to?

...

Quoting Horus (Reply 7):
as the new A318s arrive, the airline will take over Egyptair's domestic and selected regional flights (like BEY, DAM, AMM). The A318s are seen to be better suited to these markets.

Horus
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B742
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:42 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 10):
Hey Rob! How's it goin?

Great thanks, you?

How come Air Cairo changed to Cairo Aviation, it's great to see there TU-204's?

Is Orca air based in CAI, what's there flights like?

Does Air Cairo operate to the UK?

BTW - Slightly off topic, but when is BA starting SSH?

Rob!
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:40 am

Everything is okay down my end Rob!

Quoting B742 (Reply 11):
How come Air Cairo changed to Cairo Aviation, it's great to see there TU-204's?

The 'new' Air Cairo was formed in 2003 and its ownership is split 60% EgyptAir, 20% Egyptian banks and 20% by Mr Ibrahim Kamel who is the owner of the old Air Cairo which changed its name to Cairo Aviation since the new one started operations. Cairo Aviation and Sirrocco Aerospace (which owns 49% of Tupolev) are both owned by Mr Kamel and the main reason the 'old' Air Cairo was formed was for Sirrocco Aerospace to demonstrate the Rolls Royce engined Tu-204 and was only meant as a short term venture, so when the 'new' and 'proper' Air Cairo venture started, the 'old' Air Cairo was changed to Cairo Aviation...

Ok now let me take a breather Big grin

...Now the Cairo Aviation venture was supposed to be terminated in October 2004 when Sirrocco reached an agreement with Russian operator Transaero to take the 3 Tu-204 passenger aircraft. The jets were expected to return to the Aviastar production facility in Ulyanovsk in September 2004 for minor modification works and repainting but the deal fell through and Cairo Aviation continues to fly till today with 3 Tu-204s (SU-EAF/H/I) and a Tu-204C (SU-EAG)...

Air Cairo uses the callsign MSC and Cairo Aviation calling CCE.

Rob, I know it all looks confusing but I've tried to explain it the best I can.

Quoting B742 (Reply 11):
Is Orca air based in CAI, what's there flights like?

They will have bases in CAI, SSH and ASW. As for how they are, when I flew them back in 1999 they were an excellent little airline that were puntual, had good service and even served snacks on 30 min flights. I flew Dash-8 SU-UAD from SSH to ALY.

Quoting B742 (Reply 11):
Does Air Cairo operate to the UK?

Unfortunately no Egyptian airline serves the UK. I spoke to an Egyptian pilot about this before and he told me the British charter market is a very difficult one to enter due to the fact the major tour operators have their own in-house airlines. According to Airline World magazine, the month the Flash Air B733 crashed in SSH (January 2004), they had decided to lease 2 B734s to serve MAN, BHX and a third UK desintation but the airline folded soon after the crash.

Quoting B742 (Reply 11):
BTW - Slightly off topic, but when is BA starting SSH?

GB Airways will begin the 3x weekly LGW-SSH and 2x weekly LGW-HRG flights on the 22nd of October 2005 with A320s. Astraeus already have scheduled flights on the route with 3x weekly LGW-SSH B752 flights and 1x weekly MAN-SSH B73G flight.


Horus


p.s. I would just like to thank a certain A.net member who helped me gather this information. He shall remain anonymous for now but you know who you are. Shokran!
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
B742
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 12):
Rob, I know it all looks confusing but I've tried to explain it the best I can.

No, excellent explanaation thanks  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Horus (Reply 12):
They will have bases in CAI, SSH and ASW. As for how they are, when I flew them back in 1999 they were an excellent little airline that were puntual, had good service and even served snacks on 30 min flights. I flew Dash-8 SU-UAD from SSH to ALY.

You read my mind  Wink, I was about to ask about the Dash-8's at SSH!

Quoting Horus (Reply 12):
GB Airways will begin the 3x weekly LGW-SSH and 2x weekly LGW-HRG flights on the 22nd of October 2005 with A320s. Astraeus already have scheduled flights on the route with 3x weekly LGW-SSH B752 flights and 1x weekly MAN-SSH B73G flight.

Thanks for the info, hows the loads on the Astraeus flights?
How many weekly flights does Egyptair operate to LHR from SSH and hows the loads, do they also fly from any other Cities/Resorts (except SSH and CAI) to LHR?

Quoting Horus (Reply 12):
Unfortunately no Egyptian airline serves the UK. I spoke to an Egyptian pilot about this before and he told me the British charter market is a very difficult one to enter due to the fact the major tour operators have their own in-house airlines. According to Airline World magazine, the month the Flash Air B733 crashed in SSH (January 2004), they had decided to lease 2 B734s to serve MAN, BHX and a third UK desintation but the airline folded soon after the crash.

Thanks for the info, I'm gunna try and find some more info on the net about that crash, did the aircraft crash on take-off or on landing?

Rob!
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:48 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 13):
No, excellent explanaation thanks bigthumbsup

Phew!  Wink Big grin

Quoting B742 (Reply 13):
You read my mind Wink, I was about to ask about the Dash-8's at SSH!

Well Orca terminated flights back in 2003, so the Dash-8s you saw are those of PAS-Petroleum Air Services. The airline have a fleet of 5 or 6 Dash-7s and 4 Dash-8s (3rd was delivered October 2004 and 4th was delivered in April 2005). They also have a large fleet of helicopters. Our very own A.net member MYT332 flew with them on the SSH-CAI-SSH route when he was in Egypt last year.


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Quoting B742 (Reply 13):
Thanks for the info, hows the loads on the Astraeus flights?

I have no idea. I've tried contacting A.net member, bwaflyer, but I've had no luck. I think they must be going well considering they only had a weekly B73G LGW-SSH flight during Winter 04/05 and now they have 3 B752 and 1 B73G flights, but it will be interesting to see how GB Airways will impact their loads...

Quoting B742 (Reply 13):
How many weekly flights does Egyptair operate to LHR from SSH and hows the loads, do they also fly from any other Cities/Resorts (except SSH and CAI) to LHR?

I have no actual figures for MS's weekly Sunday SSH-LHR flight but they look fully booked on both C and Y classes when I check oagflights. They've also applied for a second flight starting November 2005.

MS also have a weekly Monday LXR-LHR-LXR flight. MS761/762 is operated with a B777 and is doing very well especially during the winter months.

Quoting B742 (Reply 13):

Thanks for the info, I'm gunna try and find some more info on the net about that crash, did the aircraft crash on take-off or on landing?

The aircraft crashed on take off from SSH on route to CDG (via CAI) in the early hours of the morning. Here is a 500+ page report on the crash http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/conf/files/flash.pdf

The Egyptian and French authorities are yet to reach a final decision though...

Quoting B742 (Reply 8):
Are these going to be PW powered?



Quoting Horus (Reply 10):
That hasn't been announced yet.

I'll attempt to answer your question better (I was in a bit of a rush before). The options are P&W and CFM and I strongly believe (just an opinion) but they will go for the CFM for the following reasons; firstly, Egyptair ordered the A318 a few years back but were forced to covert the order to the A320 when the P&W engine faced problems. Secondly the P&W engine is still facing problems when it comes to performance at hot and high airports. Thirdly Egyptair's current fleet of B735s and A342s are equipped with CFMs, therefore commonality may sway the order.


Horus
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su184
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:31 am

CFM is on board, no brgiht history for the PW6000, I think now there are actually no orders for PW except America West which is not expected to take delivery of its A318's. The A318 came late to the competition but was highly rated for the cockpit commonality for a small fleet and for the loads/range it can carry for the routes suggested.
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:59 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 14):
The options are P&W and CFM and I strongly believe (just an opinion) but they will go for the CFM for the following reasons...



Quoting SU184 (Reply 15):
CFM is on board,

Haha, thanks for confirming that SU184. Indeed the A318s will powered by CFM International CFM56-5 engines.

Reports state that the A318s will be fitted in an all economy class layout with upto 120 seats. Seems strange they've opted to go without at least a small business class. I could understand why they wouldn't need it on domestic routes but surely if they plan to use the aircraft to BEY, DAM, AMM, etc they need a premium cabin. What do you think SU184?

"We needed a small aircraft to match the passenger traffic that we have on our domestic and international routes, and the Airbus A318 combines the benefits of large-jet passenger comfort with attractive small-jet economics," says Air Cairo Chairman Kamal Zaki. "We will also benefit from the Airbus A318's commonality with the Airbus 320 Family aircraft in the Egyptair fleet."


Does anyone know if any computer generated images of an MSC A318 are available?


Horus

[Edited 2005-06-16 02:02:05]
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:12 am

Horus,

After your explanation of Air Cairo and Cairo Aviation, I just wish I could add you to my respected users list twice. Shokran!
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:35 am

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 17):
After your explanation of Air Cairo and Cairo Aviation, I just wish I could add you to my respected users list twice. Shokran!

Cheers Pzurita1, but to be honest you should thank SU184 who explained to me the relation when I first joined A.net...

Egyptair/Air Cairo now have a whopping 30 aircraft on order;
5 A332s (which are replacing the AB6),
4 A320s for delivery in 2006,
12 B738s due for delivery from June 2006 and
6 A318s (+2 options) for delivery from July 2006.
They're also getting a second A300-600F coming next year to compliment the 2 A300B4-203Fs and single A300-600F in the cargo fleet. The latter was only delivered this month.
Phwoah!


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
B742
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 18):
They're also getting a second A300-600F coming next year to compliment the 2 A300B4-203Fs and single A300-600F in the cargo fleet. The latter was only delivered this month.

Is this the single A300-600F or is this a new one?
http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=&picid=2049

Thanks Horus for all your help! Big grin

Any other news/updates in Egyptian Avation?

Rob!
 
su184
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:50 am

Horus, you made a comprehensive list of the orders standing for EgyptAir/Air Cairo, add to them AMC's 6 738's and the others mentioned before. Although small compared to the mega orders revealed daily in Paris these days, its quite remarkable for Egyptian aviation.
Unfortunately I missed Paris this year...
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 19):
Is this the single A300-600F or is this a new one?
http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/view...=2049

Yes SU-GAS was delivered a few weeks back. The next one is due June 2006

SU-GAS...Was
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SU-GAS...Then
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SU-GAS...Now http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=343265

I prefer the bigger titling and 'Cargo' sticker on the older A300B4-203Fs though:


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Quoting B742 (Reply 19):
Thanks Horus for all your help! Big grin

Any other news/updates in Egyptian Avation?

Sure no problem Rob. I think its great you so interested...I had no idea Sharm El Sheikh can have that effect  Wink

Astraeus's weekly LGW flight to Al Alamein Airport (which opened March 2005) seems to be going well. The new airport on the north coast serves the first real development of a tourist resort on Egypt's Mediterranean coast. Astreaus were the sole operator to the brand new airport until an Italian airline started flights there on June 8th. A Spanish airline will also start flying there on July 15th but I'm not which airline and from which Spanish airport. And in a strange move, Lufthansa Cargo plan to serve the airport despite flying to ALY:

"The German carrier Lufthansa has expressed its interest in Al-Alamein airport as well. It recently revealed plans to invest in the cargo village project with a cold storage facility. Lufthansa is planning to allocate an estimated $40 million for the project, which would greatly enhance the airport's operations" {From Al-Ahram newspaper}

Also Marsa Metruh Airport (also on the North coast) is being upgraded to international standards to start recieving European charter flights.

As for any other news, I'll get back to you on that...  Wink

Quoting SU184 (Reply 20):
Horus, you made a comprehensive list of the orders standing for EgyptAir/Air Cairo, add to them AMC's 6 738's and the others mentioned before. Although small compared to the mega orders revealed daily in Paris these days, its quite remarkable for Egyptian aviation

I agree with you 100%, it's been a long time since the Egyptian industry witnessed this growth, I'm just waiting to see how all these new aircraft will be utilised. I'm hoping MS/MSC use the B738s, A318s and the new A320s to increase capacity and frequency on Middle Eastern/Gulf flights to free up the B777s/A342s/A332s for long haul expansion. I know its a long shot but I can see SHA, HKG, SYD/MEL joining the network and possibly even IAH or YYZ.

I'm also looking forward to Orca Air coming back. They seem to have a serious management team in place and the first of 6 SAAB 340s is due later this summer for pilot training before the airlien starts operation in October. Also the company behind Orca's return, Oyoun, plan to bring back Pharaoh Airlines to perform charter flights. They haven't announced their fleet plan but I think they'll go for second-hand A320s or B733/B734s, having said that an order for new aircraft would really be the icing on the cake after the last few weeks.

As for AMC Airline and the B738s, I'm still not sure if these will be bought directly from Boeing or leased, probably the latter. I read they plan to equip the aircraft with winglets though.

But with all this growth and 'good news', there is one airline which is really hitting rock bottom...Lotus Air. This is an airline which I regarded along with AMC Airline to be stable but for the past few years things have been going from bad to worse. From a fleet of 4 A320s and 1 A319 in 2003, they now only have a single A320 after SU-LBE (A319) went to Helios last month and SU-LBE (A320) went to World Focus Airways in May. A definite shame!



SU184, I did have another question for you...

Quoting Horus (Reply 16):
Reports state that the (MSC) A318s will be fitted in an all economy class layout with upto 120 seats. Seems strange they've opted to go without at least a small business class. I could understand why they wouldn't need it on domestic routes but surely if they plan to use the aircraft to BEY, DAM, AMM, etc they need a premium cabin. What do you think SU184?

.
Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:18 am

B742, here are photos of Al-Alamien Airport when the first flight (by Astraeus from LGW) landed:


First flight with 149 British holidaymakers


Al-Alamein Airport


Arrivals Hall


On a side note does anyone know when the 4 Egyptair A320s are due next year?


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
B742
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:26 am

Great pics Horus, I did'nt realise that Astraeus was so big in Egypt, I thought Thomsonfly/Britannia was the largest UK charter carrier into Egypt?

Will Al-Alamien Airport have any Domestic flights from CAI,LXR....?

What carriers will serve Marsa Metruh Airport?

Quoting Horus (Reply 21):
Sure no problem Rob. I think its great you so interested...I had no idea Sharm El Sheikh can have that effect

Yep, I love Egypt now, Egyptian Aviation is sooooo intresting! 

How new is HBE, is it larger than ALY?

How is HBE going, did'nt QR and EK just launch flights to there?

Will Egypt Air Cargo's new A300F be an A300-600F, and will it be converted from an PAX Egypt Air A300?

When is the next A330-200 arriving?

Has Egypt Air shown any intrest in purchasing new large aircraft?

Rob!

[Edited 2005-06-17 19:31:31]
 
su184
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:57 am

Sorry Horus, can't keep online with you on all replies, refering to your comment on premium class on the flights to BEY, DAM, AMM and the other nearby cities, I think that kind of passengers won't constitute a large percentage enough to justify giving up the 120 configuration for a mixed one which would see capacity drop to 100-105 seats. About the 4 A320's of EgyptAir, I doubt they will be delivered after the 738's order, the plan was for all A321's to be leased to Air Cairo, but this has now changed, MSC needs another aircraft but an A320 not A321 to start flights to points in Italy that cannot allow the A321 to take off with max load.
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 23):
Great pics Horus, I did'nt realise that Astraeus was so big in Egypt, I thought Thomsonfly/Britannia was the largest UK charter carrier into Egypt?

I think Brittania/Thomsonfly are the largest but Astraeus have a knack for launching flights to new airports/destinations like Taba, Marsal Alam and now Al-Alamein.

Quoting B742 (Reply 23):
Will Al-Alamien Airport have any Domestic flights from CAI,LXR....?

Hard to tell. Egyptair had served nearby Marsa Metruh Airport until last year with 3x weekly B735 flights from Cairo but quit the airport after a few months of operations. Marsa Meturh is a small town which is very popular with Egyptian holidaymakers during the summer. With the government's latest tourist initiative to develop the North (Mediterranean) coast with resorts like at Al-Alamein and the new airports at Marsa Metruh and Al-Alamein I can see tourist numbers increasing in the area, but whether that will be enough to attract MS, has yet to be seen. I expect PAS to fly their with Dash-8s, like they do to RMF (MS doesn't fly there either).

Quoting B742 (Reply 23):
How new is HBE, is it larger than ALY?

Yes HBE is the larger and more modern of the facilities but its 40kms from the city centre, compared to only 8kms for ALY. You might find this an interesting read:
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/737/ec7.htm



Quoting B742 (Reply 23):
How is HBE going, did'nt QR and EK just launch flights to there?

Only 3 airlines serve HBE; British Mediterranean (British Airways), Emirates and Yemenia. TUI Belgium have charter flights there too. All other carriers including QR, serve ALY.

Quoting B742 (Reply 23):
Will Egypt Air Cargo's new A300F be an A300-600F, and will it be converted from an PAX Egypt Air A300?

Yes the second A300F due next year will be a converted A300-600 from the passenger fleet (as you know the latter are being replaced by A332s). It will probably be SU-GAT:

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Egyptair Cargo will commence flights to BEY next month to complement their passenger flights http://inforwarding.com/message.asp?action=edit&message=12774

They also have plans to triple their STN flights (MS530/531) to 3x weekly.

Quoting B742 (Reply 23):
When is the next A330-200 arriving?

It's due in 4 days on the 21st of June if everything goes to plan.

Quoting B742 (Reply 23):
Has Egypt Air shown any intrest in purchasing new large aircraft?

I am unaware of any plans to order large aircraft. The 5 A332s on order will satisfy their requirements for now. The new B738s, A318s and A320s (16 in total + 2 options) will probably be used to free up the widebodies from some Middle Eastern/Gulf flights, however certain destinations like JED and KWI will continue to get B777/A342/A332 flights due to the demand for better and larger F/C cabins not available on narrowbodies.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:28 am

Quoting SU184 (Reply 24):
Sorry Horus, can't keep online with you on all replies, refering to your comment on premium class on the flights to BEY, DAM, AMM and the other nearby cities, I think that kind of passengers won't constitute a large percentage enough to justify giving up the 120 configuration for a mixed one which would see capacity drop to 100-105 seats. About the 4 A320's of EgyptAir, I doubt they will be delivered after the 738's order, the plan was for all A321's to be leased to Air Cairo, but this has now changed, MSC needs another aircraft but an A320 not A321 to start flights to points in Italy that cannot allow the A321 to take off with max load.

Thanks SU184, I know you're really busy. About premium cabins, could MSC possibly configure their aircraft like those of European airlines with 'coverter' seats at the front of the passenger cabin? So for example the first 4 rows would be configured with 3-3 convertable seats where the middle seat could be folded to give a 2-2/2-3/3-2 configuration. That way the airline can still offer a business class without effecting the number of potential economy seats if demand in C class is low.



Horus
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Korg747
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:40 am

Fantastic. nice to see that the order is confirmed now Smile and i guess the CFM was the logical choice since we are going to have lot's of 737-800s too. great news for our egyptian aviation indeed! Hours, Any idea when Egyptair and AMC sign there boeing deals? or have they been signed already?
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AC787
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 21):
Also Marsa Metruh Airport (also on the North coast) is being upgraded to international standards to start recieving European charter flights.

I was there last summer, do you really think there's much demand for Western tourists in Marsa Metruh in the near future? It seems the tourist developments stop when your still considerably far from the city, from what I noticed driving there. Either wayI loved my stay there, not so much in the city because it was unbelievably crowded with Egyptians on summer vacation, but because if you drove out of the city you could find yourself alone on some of the most beautiful beaches I have ever seen. Its sometimes hard to find such a quiet place in Egypt  Smile

On a side note, could anyone tell me of where I could find good deals on flights out of Cairo to basically anywhere in the middle east, I'm looking to go anywhere for a good price but am having a hard time finding anything reasonably priced. My dad says we should just wait to visit a travel agent in Cairo where its amazing the deals you can get, but I'm convinced there must be something I can see online. Some destinations I'm interested in are BEY, DXB (which seems to be a very expensive ticket), Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Damascus, and maybe even IST if the price was right. Thanks in advance for any help.

AC787
 
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:52 pm

Quoting Korg747 (Reply 27):
Hours, Any idea when Egyptair and AMC sign there boeing deals? or have they been signed already?

The Egyptair order should of been firmed up last week, so either there's been a delay (well it is MS), or the order has been placed and is one of the 22 B737 UFO orders with Boeing which appeared this week. The same thing can be said of AMC Airline, however I still think they will end up leasing the aircraft so we won't see an order placed directly with the manufacturer.

p.s. its Horus not Hours! I've noticed you've been doing that for some time now Wink

Quoting AC787 (Reply 28):
I was there last summer, do you really think there's much demand for Western tourists in Marsa Metruh in the near future?

I definitely think it has the potential as the infrastructure to accept tourists is already there (e.g. hotels, villas, entertainment, airport, road links to other parts of the country). It would obviously have to be modernised and developed for a 'different' type of tourist but I think it's possible. Besides the authorities wouldn't have decided to upgrade the airport for international flight arrivals if they felt it wasn't worth it. I guess time will tell.

But at the moment, the tourist development centres around Al-Alamein. There you have beautiful beaches, golf courses and WW2 relics.

Quoting AC787 (Reply 28):
Either wayI loved my stay there, not so much in the city because it was unbelievably crowded with Egyptians on summer vacation, but because if you drove out of the city you could find yourself alone on some of the most beautiful beaches I have ever seen. Its sometimes hard to find such a quiet place in Egypt

I was there 2 years ago and love the place too. It can get crowded at times (well like you said it is Egypt) but the beaches there are on par with those at Sharm El Sheikh.

Quoting AC787 (Reply 28):
On a side note, could anyone tell me of where I could find good deals on flights out of Cairo to basically anywhere in the middle east, I'm looking to go anywhere for a good price but am having a hard time finding anything reasonably priced. My dad says we should just wait to visit a travel agent in Cairo where its amazing the deals you can get, but I'm convinced there must be something I can see online. Some destinations I'm interested in are BEY, DXB (which seems to be a very expensive ticket), Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Damascus, and maybe even IST if the price was right. Thanks in advance for any help.

I'll have to go with what your dad said. Getting the tickets from a Cairo travel agency will probably be the cheapest option as you'll be charged the 'Egyptian' not 'foreigner' airfare. You can always phone around Egyptian travel agencies in your area to see what they have to offer (look in Montreal). As for online travel sites you can check the likes of expedia, travelocity, opodo, etc but I doubt you'll get a good deal there. If you and your family are willing to travel from Alexandria you can try out Air Arabia to Sharjah and then bus it to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, etc.

Hope this helps


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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:16 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 25):
Egyptair had served nearby Marsa Metruh Airport until last year with 3x weekly B735 flights from Cairo but quit the airport after a few months of operations. Marsa Meturh is a small town which is very popular with Egyptian holidaymakers during the summer

My mistake, Egyptair's Marsa Metruh service is summer only. Flights started a few weeks back and will run till 26/09/2005 with 3x weekly A320/B735 flights (MS117/118). The flights operate on Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays to cater for Egyptians going to the resort for weekend breaks.

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EurostarVA
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:27 pm

Horus,

Do you have any information on Midwest Airlines and their fleet of Airbus A310-300s? Did they fold?
If there is a will, there is a way
 
fly707
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:48 am

Orca Air announce the resumption of service with a fleet of 6 SAAB 340s !!!
Can I know your source . I think that's a rumor Horus .

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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:07 am

Quoting GVBIG (Reply 3):
Tu204s

the TU-204 airline is CAIRO AVIATION who formerly was Air Cairo, the new Air Cairo is a subsidiary of EgyptAir
 
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 31):
Horus,

Do you have any information on Midwest Airlines and their fleet of Airbus A310-300s? Did they fold?

It's very difficult to get information about MY. They currently operate a single A310 (SU-MWA). They did have a second A310 but that was sold to Iran Air last year.


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The airline was hit hardest by 9/11 compared to other Egyptian airlines. Back in 2000 they had ordered 4 A320s for delivery in April and May 2002 to complement their 2 A310s but that order was deferred then eventually cancelled in 2002.

In fact in the summer of 2000 they actually operated scheduled flights on the CAI-LHR route, but terminated flights after a few months.

They haven't folded but their operations have been cut back. Last summer they operated a number of Cairo-Kathmandu charter flights which generated quite a bit of publicity. At the moment they fly charter flights from various Egyptian airports to Spain and France.

Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Fly707 (Reply 32):
Orca Air announce the resumption of service with a fleet of 6 SAAB 340s !!!
Can I know your source . I think that's a rumor Horus .

fly707, I can confirm this will definitely go ahead. Here is the thread I made about it:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2158971

Feel free to comment in that thread.

I have to ask though, I'm quite surprised you seem surprised about this news. I don't know too many Americans who know much about Egyptian aviation, let alone a small regional airline that only flew for 7 years. I'm just intrigued  Wink

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
Quoting GVBIG (Reply 3):
Tu204s

the TU-204 airline is CAIRO AVIATION who formerly was Air Cairo, the new Air Cairo is a subsidiary of EgyptAir



Quoting Horus (Reply 12):
The 'new' Air Cairo was formed in 2003 and its ownership is split 60% EgyptAir, 20% Egyptian banks and 20% by Mr Ibrahim Kamel who is the owner of the old Air Cairo which changed its name to Cairo Aviation since the new one started operations. Cairo Aviation and Sirrocco Aerospace (which owns 49% of Tupolev) are both owned by Mr Kamel and the main reason the 'old' Air Cairo was formed was for Sirrocco Aerospace to demonstrate the Rolls Royce engined Tu-204 and was only meant as a short term venture, so when the 'new' and 'proper' Air Cairo venture started, the 'old' Air Cairo was changed to Cairo Aviation...

Ok now let me take a breather Big grin

...Now the Cairo Aviation venture was supposed to be terminated in October 2004 when Sirrocco reached an agreement with Russian operator Transaero to take the 3 Tu-204 passenger aircraft. The jets were expected to return to the Aviastar production facility in Ulyanovsk in September 2004 for minor modification works and repainting but the deal fell through and Cairo Aviation continues to fly till today with 3 Tu-204s (SU-EAF/H/I) and a Tu-204C (SU-EAG)...

Air Cairo uses the callsign MSC and Cairo Aviation calling CCE.

... Big grin


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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:51 am

Quoting SU184 (Reply 15):
no brgiht history for the PW6000,

Sigh, true. So picking the pw6000 has risk. But... I have no doubt Pratt would PAY to be on an airframe at this point. Giving away a dozen engines to re-launch the program would be cheap compared to scrapping the design.

Quoting Horus (Reply 10):
That hasn't been announced yet.

But notice that the pictures show a V2500 on their current airbuses.  Smile So I have hope.

Quoting Horus (Reply 14):
Secondly the P&W engine is still facing problems when it comes to performance at hot and high airports.

Link? My contacts at Pratt state otherwise. In fact, they feel the opposite is true. Sorry, I'm working off information I shouldn't still have access too, so no link. Recall that on the A318 the pw6000 only needs to be set at 22k of thrust and the engine is designed for 27k.  bigthumbsup  So I really beg to differ. Current models predict that the 12k promised life between overhauls will easily be met at ICAO std. Conditions. (No, not 12k "hot-high".) In fact, the pw6000 shows promise of being the best "hot-high" engine (from points of durability and flat rated thrust at 24k to 86F) since the JT-8D!

Even the poor fuel economy version did well hot-high. The pw6000 was built for durability like no other modern design. There is a reason that not too many flight tests remain:
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRA318.htm
Bummer management didn't listen to the compressor engineers when they noted their own miss...  Sad

But the engine has always performed well (if you forget about high fuel burn). A press release on FAR33 cirtification for the pw6000:
http://www.pratt-whitney.com/pr_111604.asp

But I'll conceede the only real hope for the pw6000 is if a modified version is chosen for the C-series. But that's more likely to be a pw800 custom job. (pw800=low cost version of geared turbo fan)

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fly707
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:24 pm

ok thank you Horus, what about the 4 Airbus 320 Egypt Air order ?
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Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:08 pm

Lightsaber, Air Cairo have already gone for the CFM International CFM56-5 engines for the A318s. As for the explanation I gave regarding the P&W6000, check your PMs.

Quoting Fly707 (Reply 37):
ok thank you Horus, what about the 4 Airbus 320 Egypt Air order ?

Well Egyptair have 4 A320s on order due for delivery in 2006, but some have suggested the order will be cancelled now that MS have ordered 12 B738s. I'll try and find out more information and keep you upto date.

So you didn't tell me why you were suprised about Orca Air? Have you flown them before?


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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 34):
Last summer they operated a number of Cairo-Kathmandu charter flights which generated quite a bit of publicity

Flying whom? Egyptian climbers?? do they exist?
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Horus
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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:52 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 39):
Flying whom? Egyptian climbers?? do they exist?

As much as it's hard to believe, yes. The aircraft was chartered on behalf of a tour operator for a series of expeditions to the Himalayas for Egyptian and Arab climbers.

Here is the thread I made about it in July 2004:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/1636146

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RE: Paris: Air Cairo Orders 6 A318s

Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:41 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 38):
Lightsaber, Air Cairo have already gone for the CFM International CFM56-5 engines for the A318s

Bummer.  Sad

Did you find the presentation you PM'd me about? I'm not saying airbus doesn't like something about the pw6000 (they have cause from before), but the current version has feedback from the frontline engineers that has them excited.  Smile Sorry, no link.

Horus: 4,392 posts! I thought I was an aviation nut!  spin 

Lightsaber
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