ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:36 pm

I was just reviewing Skyliner-aviation.de: http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/news...D=4880ba571941d5895eee145d5ed5a4a1 and it shows AM has pending orders for 12 new Boeing 737-700s which are due for delivery between 4Q of 2007 and 1Q of 2008.

Are these then, additional 12 new Boeing 737-700s apart from the 12 new which are due to be delivered between June 05 to Dec 05? Does anyone knows who's leasing to AM this third batch?

Will this make a new projected total of 40 B737-700s in AM's fleet?

Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:07 pm

Not sure about the order but they should convert those to 737-900s. There are many routes that should get a 737-900.
MEX-LAX
MEX-NY
MEX-ATL
MEX-ORD
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:25 am

Juventus, AM no longer flies to ORD from MEX because even though it had very good loads (thanks to incredibly low fares), it did not make a profit... the competition from UA, AA and MX (and 6A via MTY and CO via IAH) also did not help. Supposedly AM's flights to ORD were scaled down to 1 daily flight only two months per year or so (it used to be 2x daily all year-round in 2003), but I think they pulled out altogether since I did not see AM counters in ORD International Terminal when I was there in late March. Anyway, a separate thread mentions that AM might return to ORD soon but this time not from MEX but from DGO, so let's see what happens. In addition, I don't think those routes you mention (especially ORD and JFK) are good candidates for -900's from a technical perspective since MEX' temperature and altitude would restrict payload substantially (just for the record, the 752's are used to JFK always with the occassional visit of a 762ER, and ORD was served with Mad Dogs and from time to time a 73W). Maybe the 739 could be used for routes such as CUN-MIA, CUN-JFK and CUN-ATL, but definitely not MEX-JFK! Therefore, don't expect AM to order -900's any time soon.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
B742
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RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 1):
Not sure about the order but they should convert those to 737-900s. There are many routes that should get a 737-900.
MEX-LAX
MEX-NY
MEX-ATL
MEX-ORD

I agree, maybe AM should look into the proposed 900X!

How many MD-8X's are left in the AM fleet?

Rob!
 
EddieDude
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RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
should look into the proposed 900X!

Now that would be a better idea! AM was mentioned together with AS, Virgin Blue and a couple other carriers a long time ago (before JL expressed interest) as a potential launch customer. Would be great if all these airlines ordered it. I am sure that then Boeing would go ahead with it.

Rob, I don't know how many Mad Dogs are left but certainly the MD-88's with the new interiors will stay a long time with the fleet!
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:33 am

If in a few years AM has a fleet comprising of only two types of aircraft, the NG737 and a few 777s, that would be fantastic. (I can't believe they pulled out of ORD completely).
 
NYC777
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Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 5):
If in a few years AM has a fleet comprising of only two types of aircraft, the NG737 and a few 777s, that would be fantastic. (I can't believe they pulled out of ORD completely).

Any chance of them ordering the 787? Are they looking at it?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
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RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:46 am

Imagine a 787 in Aeromexico colors. WOOO..
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2635
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RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:47 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
I did not see AM counters in ORD International Terminal

Thats strange, last time I was in terminal 5 in January, the AM counters were next to those of MX.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 5):
(I can't believe they pulled out of ORD completely

Aeromexico will return to ORD to fly to DGO. I'm sure AM has other plans besides DGO out of ORD.
 
BGOODAM
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:23 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
Are these then, additional 12 new Boeing 737-700s apart from the 12 new which are due to be delivered between June 05 to Dec 05? Does anyone knows who's leasing to AM this third batch?



Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
Will this make a new projected total of 40 B737-700s in AM's fleet?

Yes, these are in addition to the ones due this year. The last I heard besides the batch you mentioned, a couple of 800's (about 6) are going to join the fleet by late next year. Don't know anything about the lessor, but I imagine it will be the same one since AM already has a good history with them. Bgood.
 
N77014
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:16 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:53 am

Well it would be a vast improvement, especially in takeoff performance from MEX, with B737-700's over the MD-80's.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
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RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:31 am

BGOODAM,

Hopefully this new order turn out to be real! What's truly AMAZING, once again NO OFFICIAL INFO or FIESTA from AM! As for the B737-800s I've also heard the rumor and arrival for 8 due for mid 06., but still no confirmation as this third batch. But in case of true, that will make a new total of 48 B737NG's.

Fleet standarization of B737/767/777 it's on its way! A shame AM didn't went for the B717 for MD87!

Quoting N77014 (Reply 10):
Well it would be a vast improvement, especially in takeoff performance from MEX, with B737-700's over the MD-80's.

Not really! B737NG's are suffering at MEX. You should see BOS evening departure, the plane eats the entire 05R! But always nice when spotting them!

As for MD80s climb performance! Trust me, it's one of the best when out of MEX! Same thing goes for the B757s! Will certainly be missed!

Ricardo APM

[Edited 2005-06-19 21:45:46]
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
AM744
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 10):
Well it would be a vast improvement, especially in takeoff performance from MEX, with B737-700's over the MD-80's.

Don't know the facts for sure, but as a passenger and spotter I've always felt the MD-80s had a nice performance from MEX, perhaps BGOODAM or JavoMD88 could shed some light on this.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
last time I was in terminal 5 in January, the AM counters were next to those of MX

Well, by March they were gone!

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
I'm sure AM has other plans besides DGO out of ORD

I hope so, but I can't imagine which cities they would fly to/from ORD other than DGO. MEX, MTY, GDL, CUN, MLM and ZCL are served by MX, so business and ethnic travelers seem well served already. Maybe seasonal MD-87 service between ORD and SJD would work well for AM.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 6):
Any chance of them ordering the 787

I read in AM's in-flight magazine last year that AM was part of the group of airlines that gave feedback in order to help Boeing finish the design of the 787. I am sure that if all goes well for AM, they will place in a few years an order of 787's to be delivered in the middle of the next decade once all the 767ER's are gone.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
As for the B737-800s I've also heard the rumor and arrival for 8 due for mid 06

Will be great to see them flying from MEX to LAX, MIA, MTY and ATL.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
A shame AM didn't went for the B717 for MD87

Hopefully demand to the destinations served by the MD-87 in the U.S. (SAN, PHX, SLC... what else am I missing?) will grow in order to allow replacement by 73W's.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
As for MD80s... Will certainly be missed

I have only had one flight on board a 73W and I believe the Mad Dogs have greater seat pitch in coach. That and the more comfortable 2-3 config. is why they will be missed. Otherwise, it will be awesome to see AM's narrowbody fleet become all-737NG.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 12):
as a passenger and spotter I've always felt the MD-80s had a nice performance from MEX

AM744 and Ghost are right! I am not well versed in the technicalities of aircraft types but Mad Dogs have a great reputation with respect to high-altitude operations.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
BGOODAM
Posts: 127
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RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
AM744 and Ghost are right! I am not well versed in the technicalities of aircraft types but Mad Dogs have a great reputation with respect to high-altitude operations.

MD-80's are great performers specially the 87's with it's thrust. The 73 suffers a little having to do a no bleed takeoff once in a while probably more than in the 80's. The last couple of hot days we have had have not really effected performance as much being able to takeoff from the left with no problem pretty much full.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Not really! B737NG's are suffering at MEX. You should see BOS evening departure, the plane eats the entire 05R! But always nice when spotting them!

So these flights are pretty full I rekon?

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Fleet standarization of B737/767/777 it's on its way! A shame AM didn't went for the B717 for MD87!

Liked it to for AM but then again lot's of airlines passed on it for some reason betting on the 73's or buses. Probably the fuel economy of the 73's with winglets. Don't see many 717's except for Air Tran and even they are going to the 73's. Bgood.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:32 pm

Quoting BGOODAM (Reply 14):
So these flights are pretty full I rekon?

If the eighth weekly flight, the remarkable increase in the fares for the summer season and the comment by Ghost re the need to use the whole runway are any indication, it seems they are. Good for AM!

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Fleet standarization of B737/767/777 it's on its way!

As for fleet standardization, I think the argument is more compelling with respect to an all-Airbus fleet than for an all-Boeing fleet. 717's do not have commonality with other types. Same thing with 737's. 757's and 767's do have commonality between the two of them. 767-400ER's have commonality with 777's. 747's do not have commonality with other types. In any case, the reason here seems to be that AM wants Boeing to see AM (one of the top 3 carriers in Latin America) as a loyal follower in order to obtain from Boeing discounts and other benefits (like Boeing picking up leases of old planes that AM wants to substitute and the like). Some months ago, before the 772ER's were ordered, an Airbus team was in Mexico trying to pitch the A340 to AM for the trans-Atlantic routes and it failed miserably. However, in the future, should Airbus come up with a plane that can attract AM based on price, range and efficiency (cost of operations) for specific routes, nothing prevents AM from doing what IB did when it chose the A346 over the 777.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
ghost77
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:22 pm

I completely ignore LF in route or if rev is doing poor or good but increasing flights its a good signal. I also haven't heard a comment in respect of closing BOS. As for the long use of rwy, well consider it's AM's longest B737NG route plus the hour of departure which doesn't help that much for the operation.


Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:46 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:28 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
I'm sure AM has other plans besides DGO out of ORD

I hope so, but I can't imagine which cities they would fly to/from ORD other than DGO. MEX, MTY, GDL, CUN, MLM and ZCL are served by MX, so business and ethnic travelers seem well served already. Maybe seasonal MD-87 service between ORD and SJD would work well for AM.

Maybe not, because of the passengers that AM flies (not so "ethnic" as MX), also DGO get a hell of restrictions to the aircraft.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 16):
I completely ignore LF in route or if rev is doing poor or good but increasing flights its a good signal. I also haven't heard a comment in respect of closing BOS.

The loadfactor on that route goes well, but there are a lot of transits to PVR (about 45-65%, depends on the day).
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
FA4AM
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:10 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:49 pm

Well according to AM's CFO, in a meeting held last week with employees "A dónde vamos", BOS is to be closed next month. The only flight they MIGHT keep is BOS-CUN-BOS.

No new B767 coming. MTY-MAD flights will be done scaling back flights from MEX. They had to postpone service until September due to heavy LF on current MEX-MAD flights.

No intentions to expand into ASIA. AM will focus on the east coast of USA, since MX already has the west coast. Besides DTW and IAD, AM pretends to expand charter services out of JFK, to "beaches".

More red-eyed flights are also being considered. MLM-ONT-MLM, and BJX-ONT-BJX.

AM's charter division will operate with 2 airplanes, adding 3 more in peak seasons.

AM will also expand its code shared agreements with Air Europa to MAD; as well as finally implementing reciprocal code shared agreements with KL to AMS, NW to DTW and CO to IAH and beyond.

Electronic check-in counters will also be placed in many domestic airports, besides MEX, MTY and GDL.

I guess that's all I can remember.
Greetings
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:04 pm

FA4AM,

Thank you very much for the update. Overall, I would say sad news from AM. As much as some people dislike Navega's comments, he was always right. AM IS THEN closing BOS from MEX.

What about the GDL-MAD flights? A shame to see no more 67s and AM scaling back MEX. AT least, at least DTW and IAD are in the way.

So, is charter division finally launching? Are they going to have different planes/ c/s, name?


Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
Fyano773
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:35 pm

FA4AM,

 Sad Sad news...

Thanks for the info. What about the intended 767 for AeroMExpress?

Any possible (new) European routes?

More Cripple 7s (fleet renewal - 2nd. Stage)?

Regards...

Fyano
 
worldxplorer
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:12 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 7):
magine a 787 in Aeromexico colors. WOOO..

Remember that is NOT going to look the same as their standard livery. The composites on the 787 have to be painted so perhaps they will paint the fuselage gray or maybe they will do something new if they opt for the 787. American is in the same boat if they go for the 787.

WorldXplorer
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 1):
Not sure about the order but they should convert those to 737-900s. There are many routes that should get a 737-900.

A 737-900 would fall from the sky before reaching a lot of those destinations. Its really quite underpowered, and would struggle to get away from MEX with a good load.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
I am not well versed in the technicalities of aircraft types but Mad Dogs have a great reputation with respect to high-altitude operations.

Actually no, not really. The 737 is a much better high altitude performer than the MD-80. There is a reason why DL doesn't really fly the MD-88 to/from SLC all that much.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
You should see BOS evening departure, the plane eats the entire 05R!

BOS is far. Quite far from a hot/hi airport. The reason you see M80s going out hot is because they're not traveling the same distance or with the same payload.

N
 
as739x
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:48 am

The 737-900 would be an aweful plane for MX. It's in the same breath as the A321. The plane just doesn't perform well enough at high altitude airports (MEX) and in those hot temp. on top of that. Possibly a 900X with higher rated engines.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 22):
BOS is far. Quite far from a hot/hi airport. The reason you see M80s going out hot is because they're not traveling the same distance or with the same payload.

I'm not speaking of BOS being hot and high, I was referring to MEX and how bad performers B737s turn to be when flying AM's MEX-BOS at 5PM. It's hell of a long runway 05R rotation!

SLC vs MEX? 4227 feet vs 7343 feet?

AM crews (BRITMEX,JAVO,BGOOD,FA4AM) and the gang at MEX con possibly confirm that MD80s perform far better than B737s when out of MEX!

Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:04 am

I understand what you were saying , and I addressed it specifically.

MEX is hot and high, and BOS is far away from it. An M80 could not fly from MEX to BOS under most conditions, if any, with an appreciable load. That 737 is loaded up with passengers and fuel.

SLC is high, but not as high as MEX, hence my point is even more applicable. DL does not schedule M88s out of SLC because of their poor high performance.

You see M80s doing hot takeoffs from MEX because they are traveling shorter distances with lighter loads. Most of AM's 737s are going to the US and Canada, correct?

N
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:50 am

Whatever happened to those flights to DTW from Hermosillo or wherever that were talked about last year? I thought DTW was supposed to see Aeromexico flights.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 25):
MEX is hot and high, and BOS is far away from it. An M80 could not fly from MEX to BOS under most conditions, if any, with an appreciable load. That 737 is loaded up with passengers and fuel.

Oh! I now totally see and get your point! You are correct, B737s perform bad but are flying out full, something impossible to do with the MD80s! OTOH, B737s carry 124 vs de 142 in the MD80s.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 25):
You see M80s doing hot takeoffs from MEX because they are traveling shorter distances with lighter loads. Most of AM's 737s are going to the US and Canada, correct?

I ignore the MD80s and B737s rotation, both fly to US and Canada, but when flying MD80s indeed they do shorter routes or the longest one's are left to all MD87s which perform almost same as B737s. I again get your point!

Ricardo APM

[Edited 2005-06-21 23:22:49]
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:27 am

Right  Wink

N

*filler*
 
FA4AM
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:10 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 19):
So, is charter division finally launching? Are they going to have different planes/ c/s, name?

Well, at least now we have a new MD 83 reconfigured for 165 PAX in a one-class seating. This plane will be used mostly for flights to TUS, carrying back mexican immigrants willing to be repatriated. I'm clueless if the charter division will have a new name, but at least it will have two planes. And I forgot to mention that AM will be also adding charter flights to Canada.

Flights to and from TLC are also being considered, but the airport will be served only by Aerolitoral, probably to GDL and MTY. Aerolitoral will also increase its presence in MEX, and AM will reschedule flights in MTY to enhance connections with 5D.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 19):
What about the GDL-MAD flights?

Well, no mention either on that flight. It seems to me that the only new transatalntic flight we will be seeing is MTY-MAD.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 24):
AM crews (BRITMEX,JAVO,BGOOD,FA4AM) and the gang at MEX con possibly confirm that MD80s perform far better than B737s when out of MEX!

Sorry Ghost, that's not my field!

And yep, overall, BAD news for AM  ashamed . Altough Management has been working hard to improve our figures, AM is still loosing money. But things will work out for good, as we are hoping to increase YIELD this summer with all the leisure travelers, and with the arrival of the sencond batch of B737s for the 3Q/2005.  cheerful 

Greetings
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:37 am

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 20):
What about the intended 767 for AeroMExpress?

It's getting here! A friend of mine who flew the 727s just confirmed the arrival! She's so happy she'll be back @ Mexpress despite having a bad contract compared to the old one.

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 20):
Any possible (new) European routes?

Considering all this bad news, and no widebody fleet expansion, long haul routes seem like an impossible at AM!  Sad.

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 20):
More Cripple 7s (fleet renewal - 2nd. Stage)?

Same thing goes for Cripple 7's. The ones due for 06 are suppossed to replace 2 B767-200s.

Quoting FA4AM (Reply 29):
Well, at least now we have a new MD 83 reconfigured for 165 PAX in a one-class seating.

Interesting! Finally these movements planned a half and a year ago are going thru, as for the TUS flights I tought they were going to be operated by B757s! Are they making an equipment change? According to cactuswings.com AM is flying 2X to TUS with B757! Lots of seats on route.

Quoting FA4AM (Reply 29):
Flights to and from TLC are also being considered, but the airport will be served only by Aerolitoral

Smart move! Or perhaps, aircraft shortage for TLC? Considering sooner TLC will be crowded with Magni, Republic, A Volar, Interjet and Aviacsa or Azteca if they decide to jump into the competition.

Quoting FA4AM (Reply 29):
Well, no mention either on that flight. It seems to me that the only new transatalntic flight we will be seeing is MTY-MAD.

Ok! Perhaps next year or some day soon! GDL is underserved.

Quoting FA4AM (Reply 29):
And yep, overall, BAD news for AM . Altough Management has been working hard to improve our figures, AM is still loosing money.

I applaud and admire your honesty. You and Britmex do see the light, know how regular things are at the airline and accept the current reality at AM and CINTRA in the last months and years.

AM is not doing what they should! Considering it is our flag carrier.

Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
BGOODAM
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:23 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 30):
I applaud and admire your honesty. You and Britmex do see the light, know how regular things are at the airline and accept the current reality at AM and CINTRA in the last months and years.

I agree, but we do have to consider that most flag carriers around the world are loosing money BAD. Except the likes of Southwest and CO that may break a profit. So let's admit that reality. Are we doing as good as we hope? no! Nobody is saying things are profitable, but nationaly neither AM nor MX are really breaking a decent profit. About a year ago everyone was waiting for AM to wake up and order those 777's, that was done, where's the credit. Now no 76's are coming and everyones flaming. At these meetings a couple of years ago nothing was sayed about any 777's and look what happened, I still believe the rumors that are going around far outweigh what AM's management wants us to know. Bgood.
 
FA4AM
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:10 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:06 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 30):
Interesting! Finally these movements planned a half and a year ago are going thru, as for the TUS flights I tought they were going to be operated by B757s! Are they making an equipment change?

B757 were to be used during the first half of June. However, they decided to change it for MD. I even had the flight originally assigned with a B757. I was going to be sent deadheaded to HMO and from there on to TUS in a ferry B757. I would only come back to MEX working the next day, bringing back those repatriated. However my flight was cancelled  Sad

By the way, yes, AM will be getting those B737-800 and B737-700s. Which routes will the 800 fly? We still don't know. According to our CFO, planes will be delivered only until 2007 because BOEING had no empty slots in its production line. (or something like that). Anyway, more B737s are coming  Smile

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 30):
applaud and admire your honesty. You and Britmex do see the light, know how regular things are at the airline and accept the current reality at AM and CINTRA in the last months and years

Thanks! I am confident that we will overcome our current situation. I believe AM took way to long to renew its fleet. I am also sure there are many markets we should be serving, and we are not. My impression is that AM is only holding on, only trying to work out numbers in order to get sold. No expansion, no new BIG plans. But the day will come, once sold I'm sure, that AM will reappear as our ONE BIG FLAG Carrier....
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:48 am

Quoting N405MX (Reply 17):
the passengers that AM flies (not so "ethnic" as MX),

Try boarding AM's 9:00 a.m. flight from JFK to MEX and you will be surprised by the percentage of business & leisure passengers boarding (almost 0% in coach).

Quoting FA4AM (Reply 18):
finally implementing reciprocal code shared agreements with KL to AMS, NW to DTW and CO to IAH and beyond.

Wow, I had the impression that the codeshare agreement signed with CO was really one-sided and that AM is the big loser in that relationship. Hopefully it has been renegotiated.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:32 pm

I still do not understand why AM is attempting to link MTY with MAD. Ok, I know I am not in AM's management and maybe they are correct. Now that I've stablished that, I still think it's nonsense. Monterrey is an industrial city, few people go to MAD for vacation except maybe during the summer. The MAD flights are successful because of the Spanish colony in MEX. Again, I always though if any, it would be FRA, MUC, even LON, but not MAD. I hope it works, however. Does anybody know how they made this decision?
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:35 pm

Quoting BGOODAM (Reply 31):
I agree, but we do have to consider that most flag carriers around the world are loosing money BAD

Yes, other carriers worldwide are badly loosing money, but consider the strong competition they’re facing in domestic markets, just to put an example, AA, UA, DL, etc, are facing overcapacity and strong and fierce competition from mainly WN, JB and others, more over, AA has a fleet of over 850 planes, UA over 550, AM it’s only a 10% of that, and add to that AM controlling and being part of a nasty game of the Mexican monopoly, and if the rest of the carriers worldwide are loosing money it then doesn’t mean AM or any other from the group has to go with the rest. I think there should be no excuses for AM, but if AM wants to be another RG, be my guest! More to my point, being AM a smaller player compared to majors, they should be able to better control and fight with the big ones, I think that there’s a big mediocre attitude inside which doesn’t help change the things, people don’t recognize or don’t care to see the reality, once everybody start seeing where they are, what they want to achieve, then everyone will know were to head and then start acting to make things happen for good!


Quoting BGOODAM (Reply 31):
So let's admit that reality. Are we doing as good as we hope? no! Nobody is saying things are profitable, but nationaly neither AM nor MX are really breaking a decent profit.

I’m sorry but MX is posting higher profits even the airline’s year sales in 04 are less compared to AM, is not far better, but they are doing the things way better since a long time ago. A fast example, they started fleet renewal a long time ago, this year they finish the 3rd stage once F100s are transfer to LCC partner, but as this post demonstrates, AM will have to wait for the 3rd batch till last months of 2007, due to lack of slots, that’s hell of a lot of wasted time, they should at least have gone for a 3rd batch before to start receiving it by the end of 06, but now all seems it’s too late.

Quoting BGOODAM (Reply 31):
About a year ago everyone was waiting for AM to wake up and order those 777's, that was done, where's the credit.

Well, about time! Once again, I think they tooooook a lot of time to make a stupid simple decision of bringing 2 777s. Perhaps it would have been an order for B747-400s replacing -300s, what happened to the 2 B747-300s due for 99? Cancelled due to AM employees at all different levels! B777s are nothing new, that decision was taken in the last months of 2000, and AM was to make a commitment with Boeing for 2 B777s since AeroExpo 2001, and for an unknown reason, the plans didn’t succeed., 9/11th came, and things got dirty till mid 03, by the end, they should have place an order in order to be getting them early 2005, but no, that also didn’t went thru and now we have to wait, lost more months and time of development for the country and the national industry wheatear people see it this way or not, in the meantime AM changed CEO’s and a lot of people at different levels in management, including friends which have been for the airline for 5 years and the new how things were run, new teams, totally ignorant for the matter are now running AM and many other things which were unnecessary or less important, but in the meantime AM and Mexico loss competitiveness! Perhaps I sound very pissed off when speaking of AM, but we have to admit it, AM has been protected and benefited by CINTRA’s counsel lot more than MX has, MX has tried a lot to grow and enter Europe but people at CINTRA’s consel have stop those plans. I don’t see 6A and ZE willing to fly in the short term to Europe or fight for a piece of the cake which is widely and well covered by Europeans which are also getting the money, so last and only hope is AM, therefore the relevance of pointing out everything AM is doing.

Quoting BGOODAM (Reply 31):
Now no 76's are coming and everyones flaming.

Because AM’s long haul fleet and routes are a joke! Just compared AM vs. LA/RG/JJ long haul fleets and routes! LA 18XB763 plus 5XB767F plus 04XA343 plus 3X767 new and about to be delivered, RG 07XB763, 11XM11, 08XB772, JJX08A332 plus new 08XA350 orders, AM 06XB767, and that’s it! Don’t come to me saying MX is worst, lets not make stupid, small, irrelevant local comparisons, at then both are CINTRA, both are same crap…. Both government owned and alive with our taxes, lets better compare to the world to see and point out were we are standing and things we are lacking!

Quoting FA4AM (Reply 32):
By the way, yes, AM will be getting those B737-800 and B737-700s. Which routes will the 800 fly? We still don't know. According to our CFO, planes will be delivered only until 2007 because BOEING had no empty slots in its production line. (or something like that). Anyway, more B737s are coming

I’m sure they’ll fly short routes, something around 1,500nm when out of MEX, other than that they will perform better in the rest of the airports, remember -800s got almost the same power of -700s.

Quoting FA4AM (Reply 32):
I am also sure there are many markets we should be serving, and we are not. My impression is that AM is only holding on, only trying to work out numbers in order to get sold. No expansion, no new BIG plans.

I think many of us see stations and big possibilities of markets our airlines should be flying, as for AM holding on, I share your opinion and in fact, that’s what’s really happening, I see management doesn’t care anymore of AM, they just want to improve the numbers and get them sold A.S.A.P. But I no longer see conditions for the sale, they are taking too much time, I think that this novel will have an end till 2007.

Quoting FA4AM (Reply 32):
But the day will come, once sold I'm sure, that AM will reappear as our ONE BIG FLAG Carrier....

Hopefully! For Mexico itself and for the development of the Mexican aviation industry!

Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
AM001
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:44 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:49 am

Ok, yeah, I agree: MX is doing things better...

HOWEVER:

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 35):
once F100s are transfer to LCC partner,

LCC??? NOT!!! Click will never become a decent operational airline... it's just a disguised way to take MX away from the non-profit routes, and having slightly lower costs on stations that will not make business but that need to be served...

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 35):
Perhaps I sound very pissed off when speaking of AM, but we have to admit it, AM has been protected and benefited by CINTRA’s counsel lot more than MX has, MX has tried a lot to grow and enter Europe but people at CINTRA’s consel have stop those plans.

Well, the table has turned... it's obvious the "love affair" between Romano and Conesa... MX is the bright star, and AM is just, hm, freezed... remember all major issues go through Cintra, and not only the boards of each airline.. so we can say that this last administration of Cintra has supported MX in everything, including spending money in new uniforms, new cs, new interiors, new Salones Ejecutivos, etc., prior to a sale, and with no decent proffit (yeah, they make money, but not enough to cover themselves, right?)... and AM??? anything at all??? even the committed people on AM (just to mention one: Yberri, for pax services, the creator of a real business-first class in Mexico) were sent off... lack of support, lack of interest, lack of resources...

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 35):
I see management doesn’t care anymore of AM

I see Perez Alonso more worried to present a healthy finantial structure, and thus, a better entity for possible (if any...) investors... I don't say this is correct, but we all know AM has to work on it's cost structure, before pretending to grow... and that's something MX has done much better in the past years (yeah, thanks to Flores)....

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 35):
But I no longer see conditions for the sale, they are taking too much time, I think that this novel will have an end till 2007.

I completely agree... the only major player left is Olegario Vázquez and his Grupo Empresarial Angeles (may God help whatever airline they buy!).... and I don't think they'll push the price up a lot... I think the auction will be declared deserted, or the sale will be called off... As much as I hate to say it (as a user of the system) I really think the best chance for both AM & MX to survive will be a merger, and a very, very smart management... in any case, 'darkly clouded the Mexican skies are', and you don't need Yoda to tell you this...

Regards to all,

AM001
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1188
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:20 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 34):
I still do not understand why AM is attempting to link MTY with MAD.

Neither do I. Considering AM network and its partners in SkyTeam, I guess CDG would do much more sense.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
worldxplorer
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:12 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 34):
Does anybody know how they made this decision?

With MTY being an "industrial" city, perhaps AM have identified an untapped business market. Maybe there is a strong business connection with MAD and they are going after business O/D traffic, not the leisure flyer.

WorldXplorer
 
fly727
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting AM001 (Reply 36):
I really think the best chance for both AM & MX to survive will be a merger, and a very, very smart management... in any case, 'darkly clouded the Mexican skies are', and you don't need Yoda to tell you this...

I think you have a point here....

As much as I like AM, I'm honestly getting tired of this. The more time passes by and the more is being said, the darker the future seems to be (and that goes for MX as well). Who will be the buyers? Are there real buyers out there? why so little money for them? will they eventually be back into the State hands? How long before that happens? I'm quiet frankly happy to work for 6A and that other serious players are entering the market.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:07 am

Quoting AM001 (Reply 36):
CC??? NOT!!! Click will never become a decent operational airline...

You got a point! And I think we all here agree Click is a joke and will certainly not be a real LCC unless many things change inside! But management and employee's paychecks are as high as oil prices!

Quoting Fly727 (Reply 39):
As much as I like AM, I'm honestly getting tired of this. The more time passes by and the more is being said, the darker the future seems to be (and that goes for MX as well). Who will be the buyers? Are there real buyers out there? why so little money for them?

I second that! As much as I like MX, I see that the whole Cintra issue is going nowhere! There's a heading lost, systems out and everything working according to the MEL!!! Buyers? At this moment I see none! After 07, buyers may come out! But lets forget it, sale during Fox administration is over!

Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:32 am

I really disagree, and have, in all my previous posts since I joined this site. I don't want AM or MX to go private. I don't want a Canada thing happening or a repeat of the first time they went private in the 90's. They went bust sooner than when Miguel de la Madrid said "Bust Aeromexico!" which only took 2 seconds.

A competent, non-politically motivated, no favors owed, professional management team is needed, instead of privatizing the airlines. Or regardless, even. Why can't that team exist here in Mexico ? We have talent. Or maybe we don't?
 
BGOODAM
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:23 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Fly727 (Reply 39):
I'm quiet frankly happy to work for 6A and that other serious players are entering the market.

Grat fo r you but I hate to point out the facts. 6A would probably not be what it is now if it werent for AM or Aerovias de Mexico or ASPA. Remember the pension savings hundreds of pilots had before 1988? La Caja de Jubilaciones y retiros. Remember it went misteriously bankrupt, well guess where most of that money went, you guessed it a little tuboprop airline operationg around the Yucatan peninsula with a weird looking Mayan on it's tail. Guess where most of the thieves that did this go to? You guessed it, youve probably have had some kind of contact with them and did'nt know this. Hell you've probably even flown with one of them or one of their friends. The same goes to Allegro and one or two others that don't exist anymore. So yeah, enjoy your job but, take a hard look at what makes you be where you are at now and realize that youve probably got someone to thank other than the contact that helped you get into 6A.
MX, well we all know taht MX exists thank to AM...does 1993 ring a bell?
Reality.
 
BGOODAM
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:23 am

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:30 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 35):
AM has been protected and benefited by CINTRA’s counsel lot more than MX has, MX has tried a lot to grow and enter Europe but people at CINTRA’s consel have stop those plans

How do yuou figure you've even sayed it MX got new planes faster, approved by the counsil, got a new paint job (not that AM needs it, which by BTW looks like AM's), got new routes, so I hear. About Europe, AM has always had Europe even before Cintra, as a matter of fact AM operated to Caracas, Bogota, Buenos Aires, Montreal and other routes that MX now has, so MX has always scavenged from AM like starving desperate Hygenas. Now what you want Europe, and now their making excuses like crying babies saying it;s Cintras board, plis! This has been going on forever with MX's management, pilot group and it overall culture. Why does AM have this? Why does AM fly to Europe? Why does AM have more planes? Why this why that? Then we beby them: " OK let's give them a 757, yeah the one that was supposed to go to Aeroperu, give it to them so they quit whining. No que no........Vamos Por Mas...........silly really silly. It even funny, their child like behavior. So take a hard look and realize why we have what we have and before going on, on an AM not profitable rampage, realize the reasons most of the things you think are in place are in place because of one thing, _ _.

Changing the subject, AM might not get rid of the 76's if a deal is reached to lower their leases. So maybe the 777's might come in addition.
Rumor is the companies will not be sold. Bgood.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:37 pm

BGOODAM,

Yeah....... you're correct in everything! MX is the looser... thx to AeroMexico, MX is what they are now...!

Quoting BGOODAM (Reply 43):
Then we beby them: " OK let's give them a 757, yeah the one that was supposed to go to Aeroperu, give it to them so they quit whining.

BTW, first MX was an ex. ATA bird which came in 1998, this is two years after AeroPeru's colapse, and it had RR engines. All Aeroperu's B757s were PW's and up to now, MX has never flown ex. AeroPeru birds.


Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:58 pm

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 44):
this is two years after AeroPeru's colapse

Correction, 24 months BEFORE Aeroperu's colapse. AeroPeru only flew XA-SME later N52AW (crashed in 1996) N53AW and N592KA which none of them flew with MX.


Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!