rjpieces
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Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:38 pm

Last summer I walked around T3 and found an old bathroom that still had Pan Am colors....Does anybody know of other areas of T3 that still have Pan Am artifacts?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:32 am

Are any domestic flights scheduled out of T3, or is it an exclusive international operation?

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panamair
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:35 am

Yes, there is no distinction..you get domestics out of T3 and internationals out of T2 as well. Song however is exclusively out of T2. Some mainline DL flights even use the Song gates in T2 during peak periods.
 
FI642
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:54 am

Last fall I was at JFK, and called the hotel to tell them I needed a pick-up at the Pan Am Worldport. She had no idea what I was talking about. VERY sad.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting FI642 (Reply 3):
Last fall I was at JFK, and called the hotel to tell them I needed a pick-up at the Pan Am Worldport. She had no idea what I was talking about. VERY sad.

That was 14 years ago. I doubt a front desk clerk has been working at the hotel you stayed at beyond 14 years. It still is the Worldport just without the Pan Am distinction. Despite the loss of Pan Am it is still fun to be in the terminal and see flights to TXL, CDG, FRA, VCE all side by side.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 2):
Song however is exclusively out of T2. Some mainline DL flights even use the Song gates in T2 during peak periods.

Song has outgrown their gates at JFK during the 5pm push. They do a good job of keeping the Song birds between gates 20-26 though. I don't ever expect to see Song over at T3 on a scheduled basis.

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Last summer I walked around T3 and found an old bathroom that still had Pan Am colors....Does anybody know of other areas of T3 that still have Pan Am artifacts?

Nothing beyond the design of T3. DL is doing a good job renovating the lobby/rotunda area.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 2):
Some mainline DL flights even use the Song gates in T2 during peak periods.

Just yesterday we had VCE at 24 and today MAD will be there. The only difference is the color of the podium. You will also see DCI at 19 now using the COEx gate.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:20 am

So some Delta international flights leave from T2?
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TWFirst
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:35 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 4):
Despite the loss of Pan Am it is still fun to be in the terminal and see flights to TXL, CDG, FRA, VCE all side by side.

Oh yes... it's a blast. With the low ceilings leaking, old Delta signage, the air conditioning not working.... gates 1-9 really bring back memories of the good old days...

 Yeah sure
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 4):
DL is doing a good job renovating the lobby/rotunda area.

Yes.. they're doing such a good job, that it's now only for BusinessElite/First Class customers. It's a good strategy/stop-gap measure... spend a few bucks, make everyone else figure out how to dodge the cars and walk to the hideous economy check in, and inconvenience the high-fare paying folks the least.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
sspontak
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:57 am

It is nice to see some people that still like Delta's T2 & T3. I admit that it certainly needs a good cleaning. The carpets are such a mess. Stains all over the place and an overall dingy feel. Hopefully does the much needed maintenance soon. But overall, both terminals still have that nostalgic feel to them.

For me, my very first flight was from Delta's T2 from the now gate # 24 way back in February 1977 during Spring Break with my family. My flight was from JFK to Miami aboard a DL 727-200. I still remember the steak and eggs and free champagne. I wasn't old enough for the champagne. Those sure were the days.

I was on a Song flight last Friday night from T2 going from JFK to TPA. Walking around T2 sure brought back memories. The terminal acutally has not changed much. The same pale blue exterior and open terminal inside. I hope it stays around a while. But DL sure needs to do something with the after 5:00pm crowds. It is way too crowded.

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dallas74
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:10 am

What I miss about the Worldport was the roof top parking lot. You could sit there on a summer evening feeling the cool breeze off Jamaica Bay while watching planes take off without anyone bothering you! There was no fence to block your view (put up 10 years ago) or security guard chasing you away (as they do now).

As for the general condition of the terminals someone should tell Delta the place is not a museum and in need of an upgrade. It is entertaining seeing how the terminal was built to handle Multiple door usage of a 747.

It was a special place in its day!

T2 is in real need of an overhaul. That is one old building and its facilities leave a lot to be desired.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
So some Delta international flights leave from T2?

Yes it is probably 50/50 on International departures from T2 and T3.
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panamair
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 7):
that it's now only for BusinessElite/First Class customers

Actually, that's no longer the case. The front lobby/rotunda area which was previously used only for premium pax. check in now has a separate section for the "hoi polloi". This started with the advent of the AirTrain because that level is where the passengers coming off the AirTrain first enter the building. So they had to create a check-in area for those passengers instead of making them go down to arrivals and dodge traffic, etc.
The DL self-check-in kiosks are also available in that lobby area.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:43 am

What I miss about the Worldport was the roof top parking lot. You could sit there on a summer evening feeling the cool breeze off Jamaica Bay while watching planes take off without anyone bothering you! There was no fence to block your view (put up 10 years ago) or security guard chasing you away (as they do now).

Indeed, it used to be a joy. They should reopen it...I don't see how that is a major security risk, other than being on top of the terminal???

Yes it is probably 50/50 on International departures from T2 and T3.

But all international checkin is in T3 right?

Any idea when TSA might allow non-pax back into the general terminal area?
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panamair
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 12):
But all international checkin is in T3 right?

Actually, all Delta mainline and DCI (domestic and international) checkin is in T3. Song is in T2.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
Actually, that's no longer the case. The front lobby/rotunda area which was previously used only for premium pax. check in now has a separate section for the "hoi polloi". This started with the advent of the AirTrain because that level is where the passengers coming off the AirTrain first enter the building. So they had to create a check-in area for those passengers instead of making them go down to arrivals and dodge traffic, etc.
The DL self-check-in kiosks are also available in that lobby area.

Then that JUST started... like last week... because I was there two weeks ago and that was NOT the case.
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727LOVER
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting Dallas74 (Reply 9):
What I miss about the Worldport was the roof top parking lot. You could sit there on a summer evening feeling the cool breeze off Jamaica Bay while watching planes take off without anyone bothering you! There was no fence to block your view (put up 10 years ago) or security guard chasing you away (as they do now).

Agreed, that was a blast!!!! October 17, 1992, my first visit to JFK. I spent a good 5 hours on that rooftop.

Quoting Dallas74 (Reply 9):
As for the general condition of the terminals someone should tell Delta the place is not a museum and in need of an upgrade. It is entertaining seeing how the terminal was built to handle Multiple door usage of a 747.

I'm glad you brought this up. Recently there was a SAA A340-300 I believe that had a stow away crushed in the whhel well. Well they showed an overview of the plane at the gate...and I saw the dual jetways, immediately indicating to me that they were at T3. That is certainly a remnant of Pan Am! I wonder why DL never removed the extra jetway. Do any 747 use T3 nowadays?
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rjpieces
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:21 am

How many gates at T3 have dual jetways?
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jfklganyc
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:46 am

Love T3!!!

May they never tear it down!!

PJ
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:05 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 4):
Despite the loss of Pan Am it is still fun to be in the terminal and see flights to TXL, CDG, FRA, VCE all side by side.

Come on, no matter how great it might be seeing DL birds lined up at T3, it will NEVER, EVER come close to seeing PA jumbos lined up there.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:27 am

I walked through T3 once...never flew out of it...
I remember it was the start of biz elite and there were flights to LAX, SFO, and PDX departing from the "new business elite area"...also remember seeing Aeroflot amoung other airlines and the AF concorde!
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DeltaMIA
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 15):
Do any 747 use T3 nowadays?

Yes. China Airlines, Royal Jordanian, Saudi Arabian, South African Airways. While most of these have gone to B777 or A340 the 747 still finds it way to JFK.
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UN_B732
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:57 pm

I have to sadly agree. The Terminal 3 terminal is shameful compared to Terminal 4 or Terminal 6. Sadly, all non-stop flights from JFK-SVO leave T3 (Delta and Aeroflot)
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WDBRR
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:02 pm

I was in T2 a few months ago, the place is a time warp and
a little tacky (quarter arcade games in the gate area?), I am
sure AA does not have arcade games in the gate area in DFW.
What airline built T2? was it always Delta? the design is just
one big room with partitions sectioning off the gates from
ticket counters....it must have been cheap to build.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:33 pm

I am
sure AA does not have arcade games in the gate area in DFW.


Nope....But they do at T9 at JFK.
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Clipper002
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:53 am

T2 was originally used by NW, DL and NE. When DL took over NE it dropped to just 2 carriers. I started my career in 1964 at was is now T-3. At that time it was called the UTB for Unit Terminal Building. All of our international flights arriived at the IAB and were towed over to the UTB for their departures. The lone exception was flight 119 from THR/BEY/IST/FCO and ORY which continued onto BWI. That flight received progressive clearance and departed from the IAB. The chief engineer for the contracting firm that built the Worldport was my next door neighbor so I had some really good insites as to how it was constructed. The day I will never forget was when EA 66 MSY/JFK crashed on approach to 22L. I had just pulled into my rooftop parking place facing directly East and saw the entire crash from first contact with ILS tower to sliding down the runway and bursting into flames as it went along. The CFR trucks were spraying foam as the went past the IAB even though there was no chance of getting close enough to the aircraft.

Speaking of the airbridges at T-3, the first 3 gates on the East side of the terminal actually had 3 airbrdges, not just 2. There were bridges for L1 and L2 and another for R2. I don't ever remember using the lounge for the right side and eventually the bridges were removed as they intefered with the catering trucks.

I did 21 years at that terminal before transferring to MIA in 1985. Even now I still have quite a few close friends still working there, only it's for DL instead of PA. In fact one of my last bosses at PA is now the Deputy Director for PONYA at JFK. One of these days my wife and I will get a chance to revisit our old haunts although we'll probably get lost trying to find our way around. There's a lot of history in that old terminal and I was proud to be a part of it.

Rgds,
Ed
Ed
 
727LOVER
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:34 am

Quoting Clipper002 (Reply 24):
The day I will never forget was when EA 66 MSY/JFK crashed on approach to 22L.

Whoaa!!! You saw that?????!!!! That's the first crash that I can remember. When they released the CVR tapes, it was eery. The news reporter would say "2 minutes before the crash" and then you'd hear the CVR tape. "i minute before the crash" Believe me, for a 10 year old, that was scary. I don't recall being able to see the end of 22L from the T3 rooftop. My memory maybe has it wrong.



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Was it really this easy-going back then? Big grin

How many gates were there at the original design...before the 1973 addition?
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:49 am

Well if you count the building!  Wink


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Clipper002
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:55 am

The original UTB had I believe 8 gates. There were 3 on each side and 2 at the rear of the terminal. The runway for EA 66 was 22R, not 22L as I erronously stated. If you worked at JFK for any length of time you couldn't miss a near fatal/fatal crash at least every 5 years. TIA had a stretch-8 taking off on 13R and when he rotated he just kept going up until he stalled, then came staright down. Thank God it was just a ferry flight to IAD and only had a crew onboard. Turned out a stone had become jammed in the elevator when the pulled back on the yolk and they couldn't recover. Getting back to EA 66, the cockpit crew was decapitated by the ILS platform. The passengers all burned to death. Having to stand there and feel completely helpless is one of the worst feelings I've ever had. Then there was an ONA '10 rolling down 31L for takeof when it caught fire. Miraculously all survived as the passengers were all ONA employees.

Don't forget Pan Am didn't exactly have a great safety record either. We dumped quite a few a/c in the late 60's and early 70's, but that's a whole new story.

Rgds
Ed
Ed
 
727LOVER
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting Clipper002 (Reply 27):
The runway for EA 66 was 22R, not 22L as I erronously stated.

Hmm...next time I'm on Rockaway Blvd, I want to be sure. I've read 22L. Isn't that the LANDING runway? Also, I've read that looters got to the plane before rescue, is this true????? I don't believe it.

Quoting Clipper002 (Reply 27):
Don't forget Pan Am didn't exactly have a great safety record either. We dumped quite a few a/c in the late 60's and early 70's, but that's a whole new story.

None at JFK that I'm aware of.
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JFKviaPHX
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:47 pm

Back to the topic...There are a few Pan Am remnants throughout the employee sections of the terminal. The old lockers with Pan Am on them still linger around. There are some old book ends and signs downstairs that also have PAn Am on them.
 
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mats
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:18 am

There used to be a public bathroom in the rotunda with rather elaborate furnishings. I think it was part of the Clipper Club at one time, but it's now open to the pulbic.

I can remember being stunned when Delta took over. When Delta moved in, they worked really hard to spruce up the building. They also realigned the customer service staff to make sure that "Red Coats" were everywhere. Delta also rearranged the security checkpoints so that domestic-to-international and domestic-to-domestic passengers did not have to re-clear security. It was great.

Now that Delta has fallen on hard times, the terminal has lost its flair. Maybe one day Delta will get an influx of cash and regain its customary high standard of service, but I'm not optimistic.
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 4):
Nothing beyond the design of T3. DL is doing a good job renovating the lobby/rotunda area.

I was there 1 months ago and I noticed they weren't letting cars up there (I haven't been there since like '95 and I never really read up about it. The way they have you go is like a dump, you are going like in the building, there is construction, and the signs are poor and the pick up area is like 20 feet long. I think it needs ALOT of renovations, hopefully they get some cash and can fix it up.

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Clipper002
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RE: Any Pan Am Remnants At T3 At JFK?

Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:36 am

727LOVER,

You are correct in that 22L is usually used for landings only, however during the mid-afternoon at JFK there are so few departures, it is not all uncommon to swap arrivals to the right side. This greatly minimizes the taxi times into the terminal area. No, believe me there were no looters any place around that crash and worse yet, there was really nothing left to loot. It all burned inside the cabin. The PONYA CFR fought the fire from the ramp side while the NYFD came in from Rockaway Blvd.

Rgds,
Ed
Ed