dc-9-10
Posts: 481
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 1999 11:45 am

Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 1:01 pm

Have you noticed that some aircraft just dont fit with an airline. Like the 757 for Northwest or the 777 for Delta. How about any others you can think of.
 
Pbb152
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2000 2:57 pm

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 1:41 pm

What do you mean, they don't look right in an airline's color scheme, or they don't seem to make economic sense to an airline's needs? Either way, I disagree with both of your examples.
 
b744
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 5:48 pm

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 6:01 pm

I think I know what you're getting at. NW757's and DL777s are good examples. They just look kinda odd, and don't seem to fit in.
 
Trident
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 4:49 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:09 pm

DC-10's in the old BA scheme. I never associated DC-10's with BA, they only inherited them following the BCal takeover.

Viscounts in the first BA scheme - the scheme was too "modern" for the Viscount's 50's shape.

 
MEA-707
Posts: 3666
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:35 pm

Please explain your examples... I don't get it yet.
NW 757... an oddball, OK, because NW always ignored the 737 and 767, but the 40 757s flying right now are the only aircraft filling the gap between their 150-seaters and their big DC-10s and 747s, which makes it perfect for their longer transcon flights, or long thin routes like MSP-ANC.
The Delta 772 is a good replacement for their Tristars and MD-11s. The 767 is a bit to small for their longest and most prestigious routes, and I imagine it's marketing-wise to fly a well-liked big aircraft. Imagine if DLs biggest aircraft was the 767 (if the Tristars and MD-11s are retired), DL would be taken less seriously by customers and press, and nobody would believe they're almost the biggest airline in the world. Of course economics is the main factor... therefore DL (and AA) don't buy 744s, but the 772 is able to perfom fine economically on their route-system.
Best examples of airliners which doesn't fit in, are the ones bought for political reasons. BOAC and BEA (before becoming BA) were stuck with British built aircraft which they didn't want. In the cold war, airlines had to buy aircraft of their alleys, so many (ex) communist countries got Tupolevs while they preferred Boeing/Airbus.
Or sometimes an airline isn't happy with an airliner, which was originally planned to replace half or whole their fleet in that range, and ends up with a small number, along other comparible types. The 15 MD-90s of Delta are an example, which operate alongside older 722s and MD-80s and newer 738s, all with about the same capacities. Or the MD-11s of Delta and American (they originally planned to get 40 each of them, I guess, but they stopped after 15/18).
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
Guest

777 At Delta

Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:50 pm

Why doesn't the 777 fit at Delta?
737-800, 757-200, 767-200, 767-300, 767-400, 777-200... there's a pattern there - looks like a familiy to me 
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 11:05 pm

You couldn't be more wrong about the 777 and Delta. The 777 is a bit bigger and far more economical than the MD11 which Delta wants to evetually eliminate from the fleet. The 777 has proven popular with the flight crews, maintenance, management, and the passengers. So, I don't understand your point.
 
Guest

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 11:36 pm

Please don't flame me if I'm wrong...

I would have to say American's A300-600 since American is looking to become an all-Boeing fleet plus the fact that they already have 767-200/300's.

PH-BZA
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 11:48 pm

Malaysia Airlines' Airbus A330s are a bit odd aren't they - the fleet of them seem to pop up on the strangest of routes that you wouldn't think MAS would put them on.

They were a great A300 replacement - granted but their role has been superceded by the 747/777 mix that MAS now operates.

MAS should dispose of them as its likely they will order the 777LR (and not the A340NG as discussed before). MAS should also order a mix of 737NG and 757s. Its odd that MAS never found a use for the 757 - it would fit it perfectly - as MAS likes using the 737 on regional routes but has found the A330/777 often too large as a replacement when the 737s are full.

 
CV990A
Posts: 1387
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sat Apr 22, 2000 11:49 pm

Actually, I have to agree, I could never understand why AA bought the A300, when it already had the 767. Also, why are airlines buying both the A330/A340 and the 777, wouldn't it make more economic sense to operate just one family of long-haul airliners?
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
Guest

RE: CV990A

Sun Apr 23, 2000 12:05 am

Hey, do you know any airliners other than Cathay Pacific that operate all three of the A330, A340 and the 777?

PH-BZA

 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 12:26 am

I agree with you CV990A and PH-BZA, the A300 really doesn't make much sense, but I'm pretty sure the main reason for their place in the AA fleet goes back to the late 80's. The 767 was fairly new, as was the newer varsion of the A300, the -600R. Both were similar in range and capacity, and both could fit in similar roles. The reason the A300's found their way into the AA fleet is because Boeing more-or-less refused to lower their price on the 767-300ER. Although AA favoured the Boeing aeroplane, they threatened to buy the A300 if Boeing didn't lower the price. Boeing thought AA was bluffing, and refused. AA subsequently bought 35 of them, and Boeing later reduced the price, and AA now has almost 50 767-300ER in their fleet.

Well, up until recently the A320's in British Airways fleet. They were only there because of the B-Cal purchase, and there are only 10 of them. Now, of course, the A319 and A320 will become the dominant short-haul aeroplane in the BA fleet.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
bacardi182
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 2:55 am

i think the 737-800s just dont fit in at american. they just dont look right. I think that the A300s at american fit in very well at their miami hub. are you sure that AA bought them? i thought they are leasing them and can return them anytime they want? i think that the 767s at JAL dont fit in very well either. Why does cathay pacific operate both the 777/747 and A330/A340?
 
akelley728
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 3:19 am

In recent history, I think of a few examples:

A300s with Continental
MD-80s with Northwest
MD-90s with American (yeah, yeah, I know they got them from Reno)

Any other examples?
 
Guest

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline

Sun Apr 23, 2000 3:47 am

In the UK;
Monarch - 1 DC-10 rest of fleet A320, A321, A300-600R, A330, B757
Airtours - 1 DC-10 rest of fleet A320, A321, B757, B767, A330
JMC Airlines - 2 DC-10s rest of fleet A320, B757
Virgin Atlantic - 1 A321 (G-VATH - just replaced A320 G-OUZO) rest of fleet A340, B747

Also,
Sabena - 2 MD-11s
Iberia - 3 B737-400s (operated by Air Europa) 2 B767-300s
Aer Lingus - MD-11
Air Fance - 5 F100s, 8 F27s (Cargo!)
 
Guest

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 3:51 am

Some more:

A310's with Delta (now out of service)

A31x's/A32x's with United - IMO the 737NG would look better since they already operate a large fleet of 737's

A310's with Aeroflot - the only Airbus jets they have. Then again, why would it need them with 767-300ER's?

PH-BZA



 
Hamlet69
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:16 am

A few that strike me:

JAL's 737-400s & ANA's A32X, seeing little planes in these widebody fleets is weird.

The Concorde deserves its own airline!

The A318 in any fleet. The plane looks too big to be that short.
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
CV990A
Posts: 1387
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 6:04 am

RE: PH-BZA & Jet Setter

Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:16 am

Let's see here- Air France operates the A330/A340 and the 777, Singapore also operates the A340 and 777.
Also the A310's arrived first at Aeroflot- I think they were the first Western equipment certified in the former USSR, that's why Aeroflot has them- the 737s/767s/777s were a later series of orders.
Sabena's MD-11s are operated by CityBird- they're not actually owned by Sabena, also Aer Lingus' MD-11 is a seasonal wet-lease from World to increase capacity. The 737s and 767s at Iberia are leased from Air Europa because Iberia is prohibited from adding types to their fleet as an EU condition for Spanish governemnt loans to the airline- the A321/A319 order pre-dated this exemption 'tho...
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
bacardi182
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2000 2:47 am

In Latin America?

Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:26 am

how about AR's A310 or LanChile's sole 747F? How about Varig 747s, they just didnt look right!
 
Guest

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 5:18 am

Iberia have reached agreement with their pilots are now operating their own 767s using their own pilots, sensible really when you consider they're still adding to their sizeable 757 fleet. Ture, Air Europa do operate the 737-400s, but they are effectively part of the IB fleet in full livery etc - it is a bit strange seeing a 737 in Iberia livery!

Sabena now dry leases the MD-11s from CityBird using it's own crews (according to the article in "Airways" a few months back) Again looks strange in the Sabena livery - ditto an Aer Lingus MD-11 wearing full livery!
 
MD-90
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RE: Airplanes That Do Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:00 am

To change the subject a little bit, how about airplanes that really fit well with their airline? Some of my favorites are below:
Delta:
MD-88 (quiet and comfortable, perfect for their short southeastern routes)
L-1011 (Queen of the Atlantic)
MD-90 (there aren't enough of them, but it's excellent hot-and-high performance and good serve it well out west).

Midwest Express:
The 717 was made for them. They've already practically announced that they'll be ordering some soon to repkace aging DC-9s.

Weird aircraft of the past:
Pan Am's DC-10s and L-1011s. You never think of PAA with anything but 747s.
Delta and AA's 747s. They just didn't look right.
 
AmtrakGuy
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 1999 11:25 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:01 am

For me..I think DC-9 doesn't look good in NWA livery....very ugly looking...727 was better. Maybe the 717 will be better???? 717-300/400? (if they ever come out with one)

Dave
 
Guest

RE: Airplanes That Do Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:17 pm

HeHe, don't forget America West's 747-200s   That was a weird time.
 
1011 FAN
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 12:37 pm

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Sun Apr 23, 2000 9:51 pm

Definately the AA 737s ... When you think of AAs narrow body fleet you think MD80 or 757...I guess it will take some getting uesd to..
As far as what just seems right...DL L-1011s, UA DC-10s, TWA747s SW 737s...
 
dc-9-10
Posts: 481
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 1999 11:45 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Mon Apr 24, 2000 3:39 am

I guess that i didnt make my statement well enough. I am not talking about economic statue of the airplane but how the aircraft just donest seem to fit with the airline in a sceme. Like when you think of the 777 you think of United or BA NOT Delta, and when you think of the 757 you think of Delta or American.
get the idea.
 
Cody
Posts: 2172
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Mon Apr 24, 2000 5:39 am

I always though Eastern DC-10's, and 747's as well as United L1011's were wierd in both the scheme and the fleet uncommanality.
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Mon Apr 24, 2000 8:33 am

How about these?

PWA(Pacific Western Airlines) - This Canadian domestic airline (now a part of CP) had 767-200s, and stranger still, they used it more on the YVR-SEA route, rather than on YYC-YYZ or YVR-YYZ! They were using mainly 737-200s in its fleet. There have been 2 or 3 727-200s, and even an L-1011 in PWA colors!

Qantas - Had 4 A300B4s - these Arbuses looked really strange in Qantas colors! These A300s were acquired by Qantas' takeover of Australian Airlines (once TAA) in 1993. I saw a couple of these in Brisbane.

TWA - A320s and A319s and in the future, A318s look a little strange to be in TWA colors, as TWA has always been associated with DC-9s and MD-80 series for short-haul routes.

Delta and American - These airlines sure looked weird with the 747 in their colors.Delta has always been associated with L-1011s and MD-11s for long-range a/c. For AA, it's always been the DC-10 and the MD-11.


 
akelley728
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Wed Apr 26, 2000 3:02 am

Thinking back a few years, Eastern had a few DC-8s in it's fleet. Now that was a strange site.

Also Continental had a few 747s (ex PeoplExpress?)also that looked weird. Heck, they looked even weirder in PeoplExpress livery!
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Wed Apr 26, 2000 4:52 am

Re: CO 747's: In the late 60's Continental was lobbying the Nixon Administration for authority to serve Australia and New Zeland. Sources close to the White House assured CO they would be getting the route, so CO bought 747's to serve these routes. At the last minute the Govenrnment changed their mind and awarded the routes to American. Thus CO was stuck with a fleet of jumbo jets they really did not need and could not sell because of the glut of used aircraft during the energy crisis.

As for the strangest aircraft for a particular airline, that award has to go to the old PSA who ordered L-1011's for its LAX-SFO route. One astonished competitor said it was like buying a Cadillac to drive to your nextdoor neighbor. Their delivery coincided with the 1973 energy crisis meaning that fuel prices soard and air travel declined. PSA grounded the 2 Tristars in service, and told Locheed they did not need the others in production. Lockheed sued for breach of contract, and after a messy legal battle they were finally sold to Aero Peru
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
WorldTraveller
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Wed Apr 26, 2000 6:26 am

How about the Concorde in Singapore's and Braniff colors?  


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Photo © AirNikon


This one looks really cool, though:

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Whoops, this bird looks STRANGE!

I think the 767 once operated by LH also didn't fit that airline:


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Photo © Konstantin Von Wedelstaedt



Wouldn't you agree?

Regards
 
nwa man
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 3:24 am

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Wed Apr 26, 2000 11:35 am

I agree with WorldTraveller, and I'll expand...The 747SP doesn't look good in any color on any airline.

CO's DC-10s really don't fit, and they're being retired.

It'll be weird to see the CRJs in NW's fleet.
Create your own luck.
 
Guest

RE: Airplanes That Don't Fit The Airline.

Wed Apr 26, 2000 9:51 pm

So everyone thinks that a BAe 146/Avro fits all airlines...
That is nice to see!!!

They are a strange, but nice little airplane...

Heffer