grimey
Posts: 309
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Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:41 am

Why don't airlines fly over the North Pole from Europe to Asia, I know United fly over it on New York to China. Would it be quicker for the likes of BA to fly over it when doing LHR - HKG. Can airplanes handle the cold up there or does it matter?

Thanks
Grimey
 
backfire
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:50 am

Quoting Grimey (Thread starter):
Would it be quicker for the likes of BA to fly over it when doing LHR - HKG.

Probably not. The shortest geographical route between LHR and HKG isn't over the Pole. It's along the Baltic Sea, into Russia, over Siberia and into China, then to Hong Kong.

The shortest route from JFK to HKG, however, is over the Pole - the polar routes prove their worth on North American-Asian routes, not European-Asian ones.
 
Newark777
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:53 am

CO also frequently flies over the north pole during their EWR-HKG flight.

Harry
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fbgdavidson
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting Grimey (Thread starter):
Can airplanes handle the cold up there or does it matter?

 rotfl 
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Newark777
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:42 am

rotfl

I wouldn't laugh so fast:
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Harry
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Carpethead
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:09 am

Flights from Japan to/from Europe go the farthest north, but this is just skirting the Russian Artic Ocean coastline. Most Europe to Asia flights go much more southerly because that's the shortest distance. With the exception of Beijing, Osaka, Tokyo, and Seoul, major Asian cities are at southerly latitudes.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:58 am

So, for example, CPH-PEK is a trans-polar route?
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wdleiser
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:10 pm

Didn't UAL... while flying that JFL-HKG flight... while flying over the northpole have the pilots fly the flight by hand at the pole due to the fact it went almost directly over the actual north pole and would make the Autopilot go wack?
 
zeekiel
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:45 pm

QF for a while (and still do I think) flew the Silk Road route.

On the SIN or BKK-LHR sectors, they tend to travel towards India, Dubai, through Iran and Turkey. At least the ones I have been on. Sometimes even over Pakistan or Afghanistan. The time spent through these countries is quite lengthy and there are turns and zig zagging over certain countries.

The Silk Road routes flies more northerly over the mountain ranges towards Europe.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 5):
Flights from Japan to/from Europe go the farthest north, but this is just skirting the Russian Artic Ocean coastline

The North Pole is not really a factor in flying say NRT-LHR. Although they fly a very northerly track as mentioned skirting along the Arctic Ocean.

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 7):
due to the fact it went almost directly over the actual north pole and would make the Autopilot go wack?

When you fly near the poles (North or South) the error distance between you and the pole increases. Thus it is more accurate or in the old sense to reset the grid towards the other pole. At least that's what I read in a book about NZ's sightseeing trips to the South Pole. Even then that's a pretty vague explanation as I can't find this damn book.

Cheers

Zeekiel
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ikramerica
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:50 pm

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 7):
Didn't UAL... while flying that JFL-HKG flight... while flying over the northpole have the pilots fly the flight by hand at the pole due to the fact it went almost directly over the actual north pole and would make the Autopilot go wack?

it's not the magnetic pole, it's the rotational axis. at the north pole, the instruments are already compensating to indicate north, so I don't see why flying over it would send everything into a tizzy.
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QANTAS077
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:57 pm

all 3 times i've been from Japan to Europe and VV have gone very far north on departure from Tokyo, last one i did we left Nrt on 34L then made a right turn heading north for about 80mins then making a left turn to the west, ended up as mentioned skirting along the arctic ocean then turning towards mainland europe when we were over Scandinavia, interestingly we approached Germany from the North to the South then into Frankfurt, flying over Hamburg and a few of the Northern towns rather than coming over from the east to west which usually flew over Poland.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:25 pm

Since Russia opened its air routes via Siberia, this shortest route from Europe to the Far East is used.

Befoere that, flights had to go via Alaska or "around". Typical routings were FRA via KHI/BKK/HKG to TYO and FRA/ANC/TYO. That was about up until 20/25 years ago.
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squirrel83
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:40 pm

Quoting Backfire (Reply 1):
Probably not. The shortest geographical route between LHR and HKG isn't over the Pole. It's along the Baltic Sea, into Russia, over Siberia and into China, then to Hong Kong.

Check out fastest way by Great Circle Mapper.

LHR-HKG%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=" target=_blank>http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=L...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

From To Distance
LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 5994 mi

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
So, for example, CPH-PEK is a trans-polar route?
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geoffm
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:56 pm

Wasn't there some restriction on overflying the country of Tibet? Mountains, lack of navaids, lack of ATC maybe? There was a mention some time ago of a new airway which only certain aircraft or airlines were allowed to use. Flying LON to BKK overflies part of Tibet if you fly direct (though, as already mentioned, you do tend to zig zag a little, especially around the -stan countries it seems).

Geoff M.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:16 pm

You really have to go back to the cold war days, before flying (almost) via the north pole from europe to Japan. SAS pioneered the route, flying via Greenland, Canada & Alaska between Copenhagen & Tokyo with their DC-6B's & DC-7's.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:42 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 2):
CO also frequently flies over the north pole during their EWR-HKG flight

The UA ORD-DEL will fly over the north pole as well.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:01 am

Any of these routes ARN - NRT, ARN - ICN, HEL - ICN, HEL - NRT, HEL - KIX are at least partly over the North Pole?
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killjoy
Posts: 601
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RE: Europe To Asia Over The North Pole

Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
Typical routings were FRA via KHI/BKK/HKG to TYO and FRA/ANC/TYO.



Quoting CPH-R (Reply 14):
You really have to go back to the cold war days, before flying (almost) via the north pole from europe to Japan. SAS pioneered the route, flying via Greenland, Canada & Alaska between Copenhagen & Tokyo with their DC-6B's & DC-7's.

Finnair flew HEL-NRT nonstop around the Soviet Union using a DC-10-30ER in the eighties.

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