Turbojet
Topic Author
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AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:52 am

Now AC has to stick to 345/333/76x for a while. How will AC compete with the others such as AI, AF, or EK in the near future?

I think 333 is fine. However, 76x is too dated. Even refurbished, its maintenance cost will gradually go north. Compared to AF and AI's 777 fleet, 345 doesn't have much operational cost advantage. Competing with EK, I think EK's 345 operational cost in terms of human resource would be lower than AC. Although with a sound start after reconstruction, it is still difficult for AC to face future challenge.

[Edited 2005-06-20 01:54:44]

[Edited 2005-06-20 01:55:13]
 
AC787
Posts: 330
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:57 am

Your rlly going crazy with the AC topics  Smile

Quoting Turbojet (Thread starter):
Now AC has to stick with 345/333/76x for a while. How will AC compete with the others such as AI, AF, or EK in near future?

They'll compete just fine with most of these carriers for the time being, they were going to hold most of those types until 2010 at least. And its still safe to say most people will pick AC over AI when it comes to products. Also don't forget that its AC's stated goal to have PTVs for all there aircraft in the near future. EK still doesn't really "compete" with AC yet so only time will tell.
 
yul332LX
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:59 am

It was certainly not the original plan but AC will probably keep the 343s and refurbish 'em with the PTVs after all.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
lawgman
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:28 am

How will AC compete? The same way it always has. The real problem is how will it continue to expand to India, Asia and to a lesser extent, South America. Air Canada's profitability and future is ties to expanding to these three markets. Air Canada will need to consistently fly Toronto-Delhi non-stop, but it does not have the plances to do so.

As for its 767s, AC has a wacky mixture of 767s. Original 762s, original 763s, Canadian Airlines 763s, various 763s from the used market. Instead of Boeing assiting with the modernization of these planes (winglets and interiors), Air Canada is going to have to come up with a solution for these planes. The interior of many of them (especially the CND ones) are shabby and out of date.
 
yegbey01
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:31 am

Why wouldn't AC just buy more Airbuses...
A346's and A330s and 350s
 
AC777LR
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 4):
Why wouldn't AC just buy more Airbuses...
A346's and A330s and 350s

It would pose the same problem as the Boeings, excluding the A330.
Member since April 2000
 
A360
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:47 am

^Of course....
We all know that AC can perfecly live without 777's and 787's like many other companies do... This was bad news for AC.... but let's not turn this into a drama!

And guess what: There are airlines which have 340's and make profit with them!!  Wow!

^Yes, that was sarcastic!
 
mham001
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Othe

Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:57 am

The stated reason Milton bought the Boeings was because they would save the company a lot of money over a short period of time. Between maintaining older planes with a lower cyle, the fuel savings, and the maintenance package, the new planes were a no-brainer and fit in with the need to cut long-term costs. It would be a blunder to ignore the fiancial implications of the 787 for AC.

[Edited 2005-06-20 02:59:39]
 
CXYYZ
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting AC777LR (Reply 5):
It would pose the same problem as the Boeings, excluding the A330.

Can we say for sure that AC doesn't have an agreement in place concerning the A346s? They had planned on operating them, so could someone provide a definitive answer as to whether or not they have an agreement with the pilots to operate them?
 
yul332LX
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting CXYYZ (Reply 8):
They had planned on operating them, so could someone provide a definitive answer as to whether or not they have an agreement with the pilots to operate them?

They do not an agreement AFAIK. Just like they did not have an agreement for the A345s until they negotiated a last-minute agreement last year.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
sebring
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:44 am

As I stated in another thread, the training issue - the problem of introducing a new fleet type - was a key factor in the pilot vote. AC asked the pilots for additional flying for three years while it trained for a big Boeing fleet. It is not at all clear to me that the 346, being so much similar to the 345, 343, 330, etc, would present such a training issue. And AC had no problem negotiating a wage rate for the 777 and 787. The general opinion of the pilots who have posted on websites is that almost everyone felt that AC applied the proper weight-based formula, and therefore pay was not an issue. Presumably they would propose such a formula for the 346.
 
schipholjfk
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting AC787 (Reply 1):
And its still safe to say most people will pick AC over AI when it comes to products.

Exactly what has AC done to deserve this crown? Please explain.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
CXYYZ
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:35 pm

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 9):
They do not an agreement AFAIK. Just like they did not have an agreement for the A345s until they negotiated a last-minute agreement last year.

Thanks for the info!
 
brons2
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:48 pm

They should retain the A340/A330 on the 300+ seat market.

Problem is, A does not offer a 762/763 replacement capacity wise. The A350 does not change this. Now, they could grow into the A332/A358..but will they?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
lawgman
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 10):
As I stated in another thread, the training issue - the problem of introducing a new fleet type - was a key factor in the pilot vote. AC asked the pilots for additional flying for three years while it trained for a big Boeing fleet.

As I just posted in another thread, the Globe and Mail is reporting that this vote was really about original Air Canada pilots indicating their displeasure in how the pilot seniority list was created when Air Canada purchased Canadian Airlines. If the article is correct, it looks like it had nothing to do with wages or training.
 
krisyyz
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:27 pm

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 4):
Why wouldn't AC just buy more Airbuses...
A346's and A330s and 350s

A330's/A350's have a slight possibility but the A350 is a little big for AC's needs. The A346's have little chance with AC, since the whole business plan is to have an all twin engine long haul fleet. Milton has expressed this very clearly, AC does not particularly like the A340's and does not want more 4 engine aircraft.

The reason that AC got rid of its B744 combies was the fuel usage and higher than normal ZFW issue.

Krisyyz
 
squared
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:34 pm

Quoting Lawgman (Reply 14):
.

As I just posted in another thread, the Globe and Mail is reporting that this vote was really about original Air Canada pilots indicating their displeasure in how the pilot seniority list was created when Air Canada purchased Canadian Airlines. If the article is correct, it looks like it had nothing to do with wages or training.

Yes, I read that article too. It's depressing to think that a grudge would cause AC to cancel an order that could have made Air Canada into a world-class competitor. Sad

SQuared
 
EnviroTO
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RE: AC's Challenge W/ 3xx/76x To Compete With Others

Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:00 am

^ Especially when you consider the CP pilots got the shorter end of the stick in that agreement. One father working for CP ended up with less seniority than his son working at AC... but still the original AC pilots want more.