rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:42 pm

Well I thought that TACA used some LCC policy with so called low fares.

However, I went to their website and searched for fares in advance (i.e October ) which is also not a peak season I'd say Here are some prices

SJO-MGA-SJO 408 $ tax incl$

SJO-GUA-SJO 206 $ tax incl

SAL-GUA-SAL 258 $

according to me, with those short distances I would think prices could be lower. Thus would it be possible for any Loe cost central american carrier to begin. Since I live in Geneva,Switz. i'm not that much aware of the situation as could be some of my fellow Central American A.netters.

Regards
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
N77014
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:16 pm

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:10 am

A good amount of traffic in central america is not local, but O/D from USA gateways. There is not a lot of disposable income. It is not common for say, Nicaraguans to take off and visit El Salvador or Guatemala. Also, many central american airports leave much to be desired. And the local population tends to carry quite a bit of baggage and freight.

All these are recipes for a good bus service, but not a LoCo airline.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
SJO-MGA-SJO 408 $ tax incl$

SJO-GUA-SJO 206 $ tax incl

SAL-GUA-SAL 258 $

WHAT??!!  Wow!

Just curious... what dates in October? I went looking (Oct. 1 - Oct. 8) and found this:

SJO-MGA-SJO $129 plus tx $173.45

SJO-GUA-SJO $162 plus tx $206.10 (same fare you quoted)

SAL-GUA-SAL $129 plus tx $175.77

As for your original question, I'm not an aviation expert, but I'll try...

Several airlines have tried to enter the Central American market with an LCC model (Tikal Jets and the infamous SolAir/Aerohonduras come to mind). However, they have had to pull out due to low yields, which don't cover up for their operation costs (which, btw, are waaaay high in C.A.). For example, Tikal Jets Quits Service To SAP (by HR001 Jun 16 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Another complaint is how difficult it is for these new airlines to be allowed to start operations; they have to fulfill too many gov't requirements, and of course, there is always bureaucracy involved, as you can read here.

If anyone has further information please correct me!
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 2):
Another complaint is how difficult it is for these new airlines to be allowed to start operations; they have to fulfill too many gov't requirements, and of course, there is always bureaucracy involved

And exactly this would turn out to be the main problem:
The only successfull LCCs need more than one basis. This means you need to have at least three AOCs. And this is almost impossible....
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:38 am

Those high prices are the main reason why Venezuela's Aeropostal is planning to start a new subsidary arline based in SJO called Aeropostal: Alas de CentroAm�rica. The fleet will consist of former Aeropostal DC9s (-30 and -50) which are being slowly replaced by MD80s. They plan to fly between SJO and CCS to feed their South American flights and their Air Europa codeshare to MAD.

There's also AeroHonduras which is 50% owned by Aeropostal, I think they are flying from TGU to Managua with also a former Aeropostal DC9.

Aeropostal saw a big opportunity to make business in an area dominated by Taca and Copa, I wish them the best.


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © juan jose G.
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Roberto Espinoza





Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
HR001
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 4):
There's also AeroHonduras which is 50% owned by Aeropostal, I think they are flying from TGU to Managua with also a former Aeropostal DC9.

The DC-9 never arrived, the pilots were checked on the DC-9 but then told to take a hike. don´t think this will project will take to the skies. Taca an CM are two formidable contenders with brand new planes and with more coming!!

Aerohonduras learned their lesson and only flies between MIA and Honduras.



hr001
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Thus would it be possible for any Loe cost central american carrier to begin.

Of course it's possible. If here in Europe LCCs manage to be so very successful with all the problems and complications that come alongside national boundaries, I am sure a LCC in Central USA can do the same  Wink

I've just never heard of the airline you have mentioned  scratchchin 
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 6):
Of course it's possible. If here in Europe LCCs manage to be so very successful with all the problems and complications that come alongside national boundaries, I am sure a LCC in Central USA can do the same

Latinamerica is not Europe or US. Things here are much more complicated for airlines !
 
runway23
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:17 am

The first complicated step in establishing any airline in such a country is to get the rights (eg. routes, setting the company up, etc...). A government may not see air travel as a priority or may simply be content of how the current market is doing.

The prices posted may not be that significant. If the airline has those prices then the demand exists or they are flying between a hub city and another where higher prices on a point-to-point simply means blocking a seat from a customer likely to fly further.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Well I thought that TACA used some LCC policy with so called low fares.

However, I went to their website and searched for fares in advance (i.e October ) which is also not a peak season I'd say Here are some prices

SJO-MGA-SJO 408 $ tax incl$

SJO-GUA-SJO 206 $ tax incl

SAL-GUA-SAL 258 $

What dates are you referring to?

The ones that I got are completely different...

Examples:

From To As low as US$
San Salvador San Jose, CR $129

San Salvador Guatemala $129

San Jose, CR San Salvador $129

San Jose, CR Guatemala $162

Guatemala San Salvador $129

Guatemala San Jose, CR $162

[Edited 2005-06-21 19:17:25]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AA767400
Posts: 1889
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 am

Well Roots no LCC will be able to take you from Geneva to San Jose so keep dreaming.  Wink
"The low fares airline."
 
MGA
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 10):
Well Roots no LCC will be able to take you from Geneva to San Jose so keep dreaming.

Easy Jet and Air Madrid Maybe?

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 9):
What dates are you referring to?

The ones that I got are completely different...

Maybe he looked up dates that were at peak-times or not so far in advance which (if this LCC does what all others do) would result in higher fares.
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:42 am

SJO-MGA-SJO October 28 th - Nov 5th

SJO-GUA same

SAL-GUA-SAL same
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:58 am

Still...

SJO-MGA
Fare Type Fare Tax Dollars (U.S.)
Public 129.00 + 44.45 x 1 Adult = 173.45
Total fare 173.45

SJO-GUA
Fare Type Fare Tax Dollars (U.S.)
Private 162.00 + 44.10 x 1 Adult = 206.10
Total fare 206.10

SAL-GUA
Fare Type Fare Tax Dollars (U.S.)
Public 129.00 + 46.77 x 1 Adult = 175.77
Total fare 175.77

I know www.taca.com can be tricky to get around sometimes... Where it says "Type of search" select Lowest Price instead of Best Schedule and voilá!
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:34 am

"(if this LCC does what all others do)"

Sorry. Who said that TA is a LCC and why?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 15):
TA is a LCC

 spit  Remind me not to browse A.net while drinking my coffee...  rotfl 

Now back to formality... This thread provided some criteria to consider an airline a true LCC:

- Only offering P2P-flights, like FR and U2? No, TA focus mostly on hub-to-hub operations (SAL/SJO/LIM)

- No inclusive meals on-board? Well, they do have buy on board... but then again, some "legacy" carriers are following suit (ex. UA)

- Only serving secondary, uncongested airports? No, in the U.S. they fly to main airports (LAX, JFK, IAD to mention some).

- Only having one type of plane? Leaving domestic operations aside, I recall the A319/320/321 (coming soon) could be considered as one type of plane due to their similarities, so this could be a point.

- Offering easy walk-up one-way fares? No, while it is true that they simplified their fare structure, it's still mostly roundtrip fares.

I would add class differentiation (economy/business) and a FF program, both of them offered by TA.

And my conclusion: Low fares? Maybe. Low cost? Definitely not.

 twocents 
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:58 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 15):
Sorry. Who said that TA is a LCC and why?

The thread title maybe? I know nothing about this airline, nor have I ever heard of it before (as I stated in my post above)
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:33 pm

"(if this LCC does what all others do)"[reply 12]
"I know nothing about this airline, nor have I ever heard of it before (as I stated in my post above)"[reply 17 referring to post 12]

With al due respect, you're... well... confussed...
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:39 pm

Carmenlu

Welcome to my RR list!
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:17 pm

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 16):
- No inclusive meals on-board? Well, they do have buy on board... but then again, some "legacy" carriers are following suit (ex. UA)

This is service degradation when you consider how much you pay for some tickets

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 16):
- Only serving secondary, uncongested airports? No, in the U.S. they fly to main airports (LAX, JFK, IAD to mention some).

Good excellent point !

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 16):
Only having one type of plane? Leaving domestic operations aside, I recall the A319/320/321 (coming soon) could be considered as one type of plane due to their similarities, so this could be a point.

too bad they've got such a boring fleet. Then again thank goodness its not only A 320's
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:32 pm

"too bad they've got such a boring fleet."

Can you elaborate this a little more.

Is JetBlue fleet "boring"? Or CM?[among some others].
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:17 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 20):
This is service degradation when you consider how much you pay for some tickets

Sad but true.  Sad

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 20):
too bad they've got such a boring fleet. Then again thank goodness its not only A 320's

Oh, come on... how can you not like this beauty?  Wink


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © William Vogt
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Snorre - VIP Vienna International Planespotters

Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
HR001
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:25 am

Taca has been doing what most airlines have been forced to do cut some service amenities to lower costs not because they wanted to do so. Fares are substantially lower in Central America not as low as many wish buy as Carmenlu stated cost are high in the region. Taca Is not a LCC. It is a successfull Airline in very hard times, operating in a high cost region !!!
 
MGA
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 22):
Oh, come on... how can you not like this beauty?

Phisically its a doll!  Wink



Quoting HR001 (Reply 23):
Taca Is not a LCC. It is a successfull Airline in very hard times, operating in a high cost region !!!

That one kind of kills me.... Central America has one of the cheapest labor prices in the world. Thats why AEROMAN exists and B6, HP etc outsource their MX. Why would TA´s Costs be so great?

TA has cut every corner. Let me tell you, as an Horizonte member, i´m not happy with them anymore. I wastreated like shit in my last flight. There is no more ¨real airline¨ benefit from them for business or frequent flyers, Especially now that they want to get rid of ejecutiva.

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 24):
Why would TA's Costs be so great?

IMHO, it's because fuel is going up, and airport fees are quite high (about a year ago, they were even considering moving the SJO hub elsewhere due to costs).

I can't argue about service, since my in-flight experience was always GUA-SAL-GUA on company business... not much to comment on a 45-minute flight.

Quoting MGA (Reply 24):
Especially now that they want to get rid of ejecutiva.

WHAT??!!  Wow!

 eyepopping  I didn't see that coming... Now that will be a big (and I mean big) mistake!  covereyes 
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 25):
WHAT??!! Wow!

I didn't see that coming... Now that will be a big (and I mean big) mistake!

They want to get rid of their business class ? I am surprised as well !
How can the leading airline in Centralamerica (besides Mexico) do that ?
The only reason for airlines to take such a measure is that they are not stron enough in their market, have a small network, a bad distribution etc.

So I can definetly understand that in case of Aeropostal. They were never know as first choice for business travellers....but TACA !  crazy 
 
HR001
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 24):
Why would TA´s Costs be so great?

Landing fees and fuel in some countries are extremely high !!!

I agree with you that service has declined a lot!! but is still is not a LCC
 
MGA
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 25):
I didn't see that coming... Now that will be a big (and I mean big) mistake!

I know. They would practically give up every penny form business flyers.

TA is currently trying out some new seats by a new company in Ejecutiva. These seats are Extremely crappy; Very thin, delicate, narrow and are practically3 seats with the middle one turned into a little table.

I flew TA 525 last week and we got one of the planes wit these seats (everybody seemed pissed and complained) so we were asked to fill out a questionaire. Principal question was: Would you fly TACA ejecutiva if we installed these seats? Only one person said yes. From what I heard, TA is tring to substitute to a ¨economy plus¨ kind of thing or eliminiating Ejecutva all together...

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:08 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 28):

 no  That has to be the most insane idea they have ever come up with  crazy 

I asked my know-it-all best friend the RES instructor, and he says he knows nothing about it (which, given the speed information travels within the company, does not surprise me at all  sarcastic  ). Though he also said that even if he knew, it's supposed to be confidential, and blah blah... Seems I'll have to find a way to bribe him if I want to know  Wink
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
soamsky
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:41 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:48 am

Are oil prices in Central America higher than anywhere else in the world? Give me a break! The hike on oil prices is taken by all the airlines everywhere, except, I guess, in Venezuela and the middle east where fuel is cheaper.

Having said that, labor, retirement plans, and things related to that nature do make actually the real difference in cost among airlines. Central America has a low labor cost compared to other countries, so NO, this is not a region of airlines operating at higher cost.
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:10 am

No clue on whether an intra-LatAm LCC would work, but methinks a B6/FL operation to Central America based out of their hubs/focus cities could prove most lucrative.
Live life to the fullest.
 
MGA
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting SoAmSky (Reply 30):
Are oil prices in Central America higher than anywhere else in the world?

I pay 2.40 American Dollars in L.A. for Super. In Managua I pay 3.05 for the same gas. Besides that, I have no Idea of the costs. I can easaliy state that an agent with 500 dollars in their pocket a month is extremely happy (at least in MGA).

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
HR001
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:35 am

In Honduras $ 3.15 a Gallon . Avjet is slapped with additional taxes.
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: Could An LCC Work Out In Central America?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:38 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 32):
I can easaliy state that an agent with 500 dollars in their pocket a month is extremely happy

That was more or less my salary... as a supervisor. Talk about underpaid airline employees!
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: adamh8297, aviationaware, AVLAirlineFreq, CF-CPI, Cipango, DC1979, GBerg, Mumrik, RJBingham, rutankrd, Yahoo [Bot] and 283 guests