cloud4000
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US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:43 am

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Justplanes.com is reporting the following:
US Airways has asked bankruptcy court to approve a plan that would return 50 leased jets to General Electric and sell 10 other jets. The early return of the planes to GE, 6 Airbuses and 44 Boeings, could continue through 2009, in a new agreement reached by US Airways, America West and numerous GE corporations. In a separate filing, US Airways also asked the bankruptcy court in Alexandria to expedite approval of selling 10 Boeing 737s and three spare engines to Jet Partners for $48 million.
Is the 737 on the way out for US Airways? In addition, are they still receiving A319/A320/A321s from Airbus.
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:47 am

US has almost 100 737.. they are in no way out.. they are just cutting them in half.. plus America West is bringing 737 into the mix.. so in no way is the 737 out..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:57 am

With their (initial) order for more than 100 A319/320s, with A321s following shortly thereafter, it seemed obvious enough that the days of 737s with US Airways were numbered. It was more a matter of "when" than "if." Two BKs, and now the apparent merger with HP, have, of course, turned upside down whatever the fleet renewal plan of Steven Wolf & Accomplices may have been when US went from a non-customer of Airbus to one of their best customers with the proverbial stroke of a pen when US signed their first-ever purchase contract with Airbus.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:12 am

don't US and HP have diff engines on their Airbii?
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ballsdeep
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:29 am

Does anyone know if any of the returned aircrafts are going to be the 767-200's?
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
don't US and HP have diff engines on their Airbii?

They do. However, they also have large enough fleets of each that its not as big a deal.

Quoting Ballsdeep (Reply 4):
Does anyone know if any of the returned aircrafts are going to be the 767-200's?

There is absolutely no chance of that.

N
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:41 am

Can someone tell me if my summary is correct..

The new US Airways will use the 330/350 for long haul international..
The new US Airways will still be using their 757 and 767, the 767 will be removed from long haul but could still be used on Caribbean/Hawaiian/high load routes
The new US Airways will still have 737 for their fleet as they are only getting rid of ~60 and will still have about 70 in their fleet
The new US Airways are still taking on the remaining 13 order of 319 from American West, and an additional 30 319/320?

What part did I get wrong?
Aiming High and going far..
 
starrion
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:53 am

They're returning 60 aircraft. There is no statement that this is the last of the returns.

My money is that within 3 years, all of the 737's and 767's will leave the fleet.

US is going to be a lot smaller when this is all finished.
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aa757first
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting Ballsdeep (Reply 4):
Does anyone know if any of the returned aircrafts are going to be the 767-200's?

I seriously doubt it. They need every long haul widebody they can get their hands on for their European network.

AAndrew
 
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yyz717
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:02 am

US has already returned alot of 319's to the lessors, in addition to reducing their 733/734 fleet.

US and UA: America's shrinking carriers. It's all good. All removed capacity helps firm up yields (and profit) for everyone.
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N1120A
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Thread starter):
In addition, are they still receiving A319/A320/A321s from Airbus.

No, they first changed their order to mostly A332s then canceled completely
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting Ballsdeep (Reply 4):
Does anyone know if any of the returned aircrafts are going to be the 767-200's?

I don't know for sure. But i imagine the combined carrier will continue to utilize the 767's for international service. at least until they start receiving new airbus equipment.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
erikwilliam
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:04 am

Embraer stated that they won´t take the planes back.
Are they considerin return of A-330´s? TP could well use it to Brasil routes.
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gigneil
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
No, they first changed their order to mostly A332s then canceled completely

I don't believe that the A330-200s have been cancelled.

N
 
bennett123
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:05 am

Are you sure about the N767.

I was sure that I read that N651US & N652US were for sale.

I am not sure where I read this, it could have been in Flight.

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TPASXM787
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:15 am

I doubt (all) of the 762's are being returned. Erik, no way on the A333. They are desperate enough for longhaul aircraft as it is and have their share of issues with the Airbus, delaying flights as they are only using 1 a/c per route for the most part. They only have 9 A333. The 762's are too valuable especially on seasonal routs such as SNN and VCE.
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boeingfever777
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:13 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Thread starter):
10 Boeing 737s and three spare engines to Jet Partners for $48 million.

Hell of a deal they got for (10) a/c.

Quoting Starrion (Reply 7):
My money is that within 3 years, all of the 737's and 767's will leave the fleet.

Yeah with Airbus money in there pockets I'm sure they will rid there fleet of Boeing a/c ASAP.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
I don't believe that the A330-200s have been cancelled.

Correct, there order/delivery sheet is till showing (10) A330-200 on order.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
727LOVER
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:40 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
Can someone tell me if my summary is correct..

The new US Airways will use the 330/350 for long haul international..
The new US Airways will still be using their 757 and 767, the 767 will be removed from long haul but could still be used on Caribbean/Hawaiian/high load routes
The new US Airways will still have 737 for their fleet as they are only getting rid of ~60 and will still have about 70 in their fleet
The new US Airways are still taking on the remaining 13 order of 319 from American West, and an additional 30 319/320?

What part did I get wrong?

Well,...it's AmericA West...not AmericaN West

Also, it didn't say they were getting rid of 60 737s
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A330323X
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:47 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
The new US Airways are still taking on the remaining 13 order of 319 from American West

I believe it's a mixture of 319/320 that are coming on this year from the original HP order; rumor I heard is that 8 planes are going to HP and 5 to US.

Quoting Starrion (Reply 7):
They're returning 60 aircraft. There is no statement that this is the last of the returns.

There will be no or minimal further returns other than have been already announced. It's not easy to return airplanes once bankruptcy is exited.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 9):
US has already returned alot of 319's to the lessors

If you consider 4 to be a lot.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
No, they first changed their order to mostly A332s then canceled completely

No. US had an order for 1x A330-300 and 18x A320-series that was converted to the order for 10x A330-200 in January 2003 during the first bankruptcy. Those birds are still scheduled to arrive in 2007-09, as they have always been. US also had on order 6x A320 and 13x A321 aircraft. That order was not cancelled, but pushed back during the first bankruptcy and again during the current bankruptcy, now due for delivery in 2009-10. Of course, US is now also ordering 20 A350-800 aircraft for delivery in 2011-13.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 15):
I was sure that I read that N651US & N652US were for sale.

Those birds are leased by US, and will continue to be leased by US. It's possible that the owner/lessor of the planes is looking to sell them to another lessor.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 17):
Hell of a deal they got for (10) a/c.

The 10 737s that are being sold are in dreadful condition and will be scrapped.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 18):
Well,...it's AmericA West...not AmericaN West

Also, it didn't say they were getting rid of 60 737s

Excuse the h@ll out of me.. AMERICA West..

And 44 to GECAS + 10 to be sold = 54 which is ~60.. what's the big deal?
Aiming High and going far..
 
cltguy
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:08 am

Lawd ERJ did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? The littlest things are setting you off into a tailspin.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:10 am

Nope, just getting irritated by the nitpicking..
Aiming High and going far..
 
N1120A
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:52 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 13):
Are they considerin return of A-330´s?

Not a chance

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 17):
Quoting Cloud4000 (Thread starter):
10 Boeing 737s and three spare engines to Jet Partners for $48 million.

Hell of a deal they got for (10) a/c.

Those are rather high time birds and are going to be parted and then chopped

Quoting A330323X (Reply 19):
No. US had an order for 1x A330-300 and 18x A320-series that was converted to the order for 10x A330-200 in January 2003 during the first bankruptcy. Those birds are still scheduled to arrive in 2007-09, as they have always been. US also had on order 6x A320 and 13x A321 aircraft. That order was not cancelled, but pushed back during the first bankruptcy and again during the current bankruptcy, now due for delivery in 2009-10. Of course, US is now also ordering 20 A350-800 aircraft for delivery in 2011-13.

Thanks. I had been led to believe several times that they had canceled their order in the second bankruptcy

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 22):
Nope, just getting irritated by the nitpicking..

It is not nitpicking when you do something that is blatantly wrong and should know quite well if you spend 5 seconds on A.net
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
brons2
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:59 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 22):
Nope, just getting irritated by the nitpicking..

People calling HP AmericaN West is irritating. It isn't that hard, folks. Even Quantas (sic) easier to mess up than that.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
padcrasher
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:07 am

I hope American West and US Air make it.

just my 2 cents.
 
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PM
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:01 pm

Is there truth in the rumour that US haven't been happy with their PW4000s on their A333s?
 
na
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:13 pm

No way the A330s will leave. That would reduce the intercontinental fleet to just "Ye olde 762", aircraft that in majority soon will be due for retirement. Some are just having 5 years, the newest of early 90s vintage 10 years of usable life in them. After that many will be past 20, some 25. Hardly anything to attract the public with by then unless you´re a third world carrier or a cheap charter!
 
TPASXM787
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:10 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 26):
Is there truth in the rumour that US haven't been happy with their PW4000s on their A333s?

Yes, I know a A333 pilot and they are always having some sort of issue with them, throwing off their schedules by 2 hr+ since they don't exactly have spare A333 sitting around.
This is the Last Stop.
 
goomba
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:28 pm

This may be a dumb question.

Are they going to keep the USAir name or America West?

Please advise.
 
BNAflyer78
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting Goomba (Reply 29):
This may be a dumb question.

Are they going to keep the USAir name or America West?

Please advise.

Neither - US Airways
Long live the Widget!
 
goomba
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:28 pm

BNAflyer78

I was abbreviating - I know the name of US Airways - they paid my bills as a kid growing up for many years. Dad was a pilot.

Thanks for your answer. Now I know.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 26):
Is there truth in the rumour that US haven't been happy with their PW4000s on their A333s?

Doubt it. The Pw4168 is a damn reliable engine with great economics. Far and away the most reliable and highest customer satisfaction version of the pw4000 family. I don't know about today, but four years ago it had far and away the highest dispatch reliability, lowest SFC, and highest customer satisfaction of any engine on the A333. Now, they probably aren't happy with the PW4168 on the A332 as that airframe really could really use the 72k version that was canceled. 4k of thrust might not sound like much... but it makes a big difference in mission envelope.

Does anyone know what returning airframes is doing for USair's CASM? Is it going up or down? I did quick financial models that showed either trend!

Lightsaber
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tjwgrr
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Thread starter):
US Airways has asked bankruptcy court to approve a plan that would return 50 leased jets to General Electric and sell 10 other jets

FedEx here they come?


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PanAmDC10
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:17 am

I would like to know what happened to patriotism. With a name like US Airways, I would think they would try to support Boeing by ordering from them.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:29 am

Quoting PanAmDC10 (Reply 34):
I would like to know what happened to patriotism. With a name like US Airways, I would think they would try to support Boeing by ordering from them.

It all boils down to the all American dollar.. can't get much more patriotic than that!
Aiming High and going far..
 
luv2fly
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:42 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 35):
It all boils down to the all American dollar.. can't get much more patriotic than that!

For once I have to agree! Though if you can get the same product for a lower price, as a consumer what are you going to do spending your dollars.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
jmacias34
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:06 am

How many 733s & 734s does US Airways operate? Would it be safe to assume that US Airways would most likely return the 734s to maintain fleet commonality with America West, who operates 37 733s?
 
MarcoT
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting PanAmDC10 (Reply 34):

I would like to know what happened to patriotism. With a name like US Airways, I would think they would try to support Boeing by ordering from them.

You're being sarcastic, right?
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting PanAmDC10 (Reply 33):
I would like to know what happened to patriotism.

Patriotism has no place in a free market society.

N
 
727LOVER
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting PanAmDC10 (Reply 33):
I would like to know what happened to patriotism. With a name like US Airways, I would think they would try to support Boeing by ordering from them.

Ya know, a whole lot of those Airbus parts are manufactured in the USA. Thousands of USA jobs are supported by Airbus. By your thinking, all the European carriers should not have bought 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 19):
Excuse the h@ll out of me.. AMERICA West..



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 19):
And 44 to GECAS + 10 to be sold = 54 which is ~60.. what's the big deal?

You asked, and I quote "What part did I get wrong?"
I told ya.
Chill.
Sorry, I didn't see the ~ before the 60, I don't even know what that is. Less than 60, would, for me, mean <60
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bennett123
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:47 am

I seem to remember the quote that "an appeal to patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" problem is that I do not remember the author.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 18):
The 10 737s that are being sold are in dreadful condition and will be scrapped.

Anyone got reg #'s? I hope one of them was the deplorable 733 with the lousy paint job that was posted here a few days ago.

Quoting Jmacias34 (Reply 36):
How many 733s & 734s does US Airways operate? Would it be safe to assume that US Airways would most likely return the 734s to maintain fleet commonality with America West, who operates 37 733s?

All 737's operated by both fleets are going away. The plan is for the A-319/320/321 family to replace them all. US has been saying that for years and so has America West; the merger has not changed that plan that I have read anywhere.
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mariner
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 40):
patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" problem is that I do not remember the author.

Probably Samuel Johnson:

http://www.bartleby.com/73/1306.html

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
bennett123
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:35 am

Thanks for that Mariner, I had a mental block.
 
A330323X
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RE: US Airways To Sell/return 60 Aircraft.

Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting PM (Reply 25):
Is there truth in the rumour that US haven't been happy with their PW4000s on their A333s?

The thing US is least happy about is that they didn't get the damn engine they ordered, the PW4173.  Silly

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 31):
Does anyone know what returning airframes is doing for USair's CASM? Is it going up or down?

It probably decreases mainline CASM a little bit, but system CASM probably stays about the same.

Quoting Jmacias34 (Reply 36):
How many 733s & 734s does US Airways operate

US currently operates 63 B737-300s and 43 B737-400s.

Quoting Jmacias34 (Reply 36):
Would it be safe to assume that US Airways would most likely return the 734s to maintain fleet commonality with America West, who operates 37 733s?

No, the birds to be returned will be a mix of 733/734. (In fact, there will be more -300s returned than -400s.) The 737-400 is a valuable part of the US fleet, and shares a very high level of commonality with the 737-300.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 41):
Anyone got reg #'s?

The 10 737s to be sold (and scrapped) are 7 737-300s--ships 350, 385, 387, 389, 390, 560, 573--and 3 737-400s--ships 446, 447, 448. This includes the two birds in the usairways.com livery; for those of you that like to take pictures of such planes, you might want to do it soon.

The registration numbers of the birds to be returned to GECAS have been redacted from court filings and are also subject to change.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 41):
All 737's operated by both fleets are going away. The plan is for the A-319/320/321 family to replace them all. US has been saying that for years and so has America West; the merger has not changed that plan that I have read anywhere.

US has never outright said anything of the sort. The inital order of A32X was to replace the DC-9-30, MD-80, F-28-4000, and B737-200, covering the airline's narrowbody needs through 2009. While it was certainly evident that options to be exercised would replace the F-100 and B737-300/400, that was never said. Indeed, at this point, it appears quite possible that the majority of the B737 aircraft will be replaced not by new A320-series planes but by the EMB-190.
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