United777
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:04 am

Order from Isreal ????

Wed Feb 03, 1999 8:58 am

I am not sure how to spell the airline from Isreal, I think it is El Al Isreal Airlines but anyways, Boeing and Airbus executives are in Tel Aviv right now because El Al Isreal Airlines has told Boeing and Airbus to bid for an order for either Boeing 747-400 or 777-200 or Airbus A340 or A330 aircraft. The airline will order up tp $800 million worth of airplanes, what do you think they should pick?

Farhan Ali. Newport Beach, California
 
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RE: Order from Isreal ????

Wed Feb 03, 1999 5:44 pm

airbus has offerd el al to replace all their 747s with the a340/a330.
abaout 18 month ago there was another bid- that time the 737ng
against the a320\319.the 737 won .but at that time one of israel major aerospace company has won a major cotract to upgrade
helicopers for the polish airforce .guess who came second in that
upgrade bid.......thats right boeing.
so there was alot of pressure on elal to choose boeing .
(the helicopter deal didnt go on eventually because the polish
gov' mysteriously changed their mind.)
 
CX747
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RE: Order from Isreal ????

Wed Feb 03, 1999 10:33 pm

I think that El Al should pick the 747 and 777 because they compliment one another and will blend into the fleet much easier than the Airbus junk. El Al already operates the 747-400 so Boeing can push the commonality with existing airframes for maitience. I think El Al will choose the 747 and 777. Most of its international routes are very high density anyway.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX747
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Order from Isreal ????

Thu Feb 04, 1999 12:24 am

I have just read on another site that El Al will order 5 777-200s with options for 5 777-200s by April of 1999. They are to replace the 747 "Classics" and 767-200 fleet. That will leave El Al with a young fleet made up of 737NGs, 747-400s and 777-200s.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
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RE: Order from Isreal ????

Thu Feb 04, 1999 12:27 am

I dare you to find a way to back up your statement about Airbus being junk. I think that is quite out of line and without any basis.
 
KL808
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE:CX747

Thu Feb 04, 1999 2:40 am

The only reason that EL AL would wanna buy BOEING aircrafts is because the government is told to buy american due to the fact that there getting aid from the US, that is the country not the airline. So far I heard that ELAL would rather have bought the A320's for the 737NG and as for the 777 yes I believe they may order that even though THEY LIKE THE A330/340 BETTER. I think flight international have mentioned this in there last articles about a couple of months ago, or even last year. The 747-400 are great in there fleet but how can a 777 give it commonality, THEY DONT HAVE ANYTHING IN COMMON, only the name is common. So if I where them (ELAL) I think I should stop being a dog and start buying whatever is suitable for the airline not for the country.
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
KL808
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Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE:CX747

Thu Feb 04, 1999 2:46 am

If you think that airbus aircrafts are junk, then how come your favorite airline CX have a couple of them in there fleet. I guess CX must be the most stupidest airline in the world to order junk aircraft, dont you agree.
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
United777
Topic Author
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:04 am

KL808

Thu Feb 04, 1999 3:01 am

CX747 probally didn't mean to say Airbus is junk just that Boeing aircraft is better. I wouldn't call Airbus junk but I do think Boeing aircraft is better. Airbus best aircraft are only there single-aisle aircraft. Boeing wide-body aircraft is better than Airbus. The only thing Airbus has right now is the longest-range aircraft. Boeing could easily build a aircraft that could do the same. So with all respects to Airbus I do think Boeing is much better. But I do love Airbus A319 and A320 aircraft. I also like the A330-300, I flew on one on Malasyia Airlines.

Farhan Ali. Newport Beach, California
 
Guest

RE: United777

Thu Feb 04, 1999 3:08 am

You say the only thing Airbus has going for them is that they have the longest range aircraft, but that Boeing could easily build the same. Well then what does Boeing have that Airbus couldn't build just as easily?
 
CX747
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: MD-11

Thu Feb 04, 1999 5:07 am

Hum, lets think. What does Boeing have that Airbus doesn't. I know the 747. Airbus doesn't have anything that can compare to the "Queen of the Skies". Please don't bring up the A340-500/600 because it doesn't rival the 747-400 just the 777-300. Boeing is also working on the 747-200ERX which would carry the same amount of passengers and A340-500 would a longer distance. United777 was correct is reinterpreting what I said. I also think that Cathay Pacific did make a big mistake when ordering their Airbus products. The A330 fleet had to be downed for several weeks last year due to geabox problems in the engine. While that does not per say reflect on Airbus as much as Rolls Royce, it is still an Airbus aircraft. I also think replacing the 747-200 with the 777-300 is a mistake also. The 777-200 is also a questionable aircraft because Cathay does not know if it fits the fleet correctly. NONE OF THESE PROBLEMS OCCURED WHEN THEY OPERATED THE 747-200S. You might argue that you are saving maitience costs but Cathay keeps their aircraft in meticulous condition(seen by the quick leasing of 5 747-200s by Iberia and Virgin Atlantic) Virgin Atlantic is one of the airlines along with BA to see that you lose money when you donwngrade to a twin aircraft or anything smaller. During a recession it looks smart, but when times are average or above you lose profit. Look at BA and Virgin, still operating 747-200s in favour of 777-200s or A330-300s or A340-300s for that matter.

A330-300 statistics:
215-217,000 MTOW
B777-200 statistics:
247,212 MTOW
B777-300 statistics:
263,083 MTOW
B747-200 statistics:
377,742 MTOW

Right now it looks like a wise decision because of the Asian flu and lack of cargo and pax. When the market returns(as it has been doing), they will not be able to have the same profit margin they would have operating the older quads. You are losing out on potential profit when you switch to a smaller aircraft with less pax and cargo space.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX747
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: KL808

Thu Feb 04, 1999 5:15 am

Don't even get me started on governments intervening for Airbus. Airbus would not have half of their sales if the governments did not force their airlines to order Airbus. Cough (Lufthansa, Air France, Alitalia, British Airway's large A320 order). I have also heard that SIA ordered the A340-500 because they wanted more routes into Europe, US Scareways also because they want more European routes.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: KL808

Thu Feb 04, 1999 5:21 am

Aviation Week and Space Technology

"While the A340-600 presents a challenge to Boeing in the 747-200 replacement market, teh 747-400 is in a class by itself. Carriers seeking a 420-seat, 7,400-naut-mile aircraft for Pacific routes eventually have to talke to Boeing. This provides the company with an aircraft that is a cash cow and a good opportunity to design and sell complementary transports, SUCH AS THE 777."

* " Only two carries at last count operate both the A330 and A340 for commonality."
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower