Kezensky
Topic Author
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Mexicana Airlines

Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:47 am

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a senior MX Captain. He told me that he had lunch with Emilio Romano (MX-CEO) on Monday and it turns out, that MX is really concerned about the upcoming start of a new Low Cost Carrier called ABC (Miguel Aleman). In fact this new airline wants to hire active A320 Pilots. They (MX) are now evaluating the possibility to hire more pilots in the near future (September or October '05) to overcome a possible pilot shortage due to this new startup airline.
We also talked about the A330 and it's limitations here in MMMX especially for longhaul operations.
As somebody already mentioned before - Mexicana is still looking for a second B767 and they are currently also in Brazil looking for A320 replacements/additions!


Saludos

TH
If you´re not having fun, you´re not doing it right!
 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:58 am

Quoting Kezensky (Thread starter):
In fact this new airline wants to hire active A320 Pilots

Smart move, since they can hire type rated pilots for the A320 currently working for MX by just paying them a little bit more and saving the cost of sending them to get the type rating...
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:07 am

Quoting Kezensky (Thread starter):
He told me that he had lunch with Emilio Romano (MX-CEO) on Monday and it turns out, that MX is really concerned about the upcoming start of a new Low Cost Carrier called ABC (Miguel Aleman). In fact this new airline wants to hire active A320 Pilots

Active? Or better say Inactive MX pilots? Let’s do a little recap. MX in 2003 furloughed 135 pilots, which one of those died in a Cessna accident, that makes 134, then by mid 04, 12 returned for a total of 122, then, QA hired 18, making a new total of 104 pilots, and more recently 12 more returned for a total of 92 still pending for return. MX has plans to return 36 more this year, in case of going back, it will make a new total of 56.

Interjet will start with a fleet of 8 S.H. A320, which are supposed to start arriving by September of this year and they should start taking off by December of this year. This is… 8 planes x 10 = 80 pilots, more than enough to get from the 92 currently at the street or other airlines. What ever it is, tough decision for pilots, it’s like throwing a coin and having only two destinies, probably in case of going to Interjet they will lost all chances in the future to rejoin MX, but perhaps things will be even better at Interjet compared to MX. There’s a lot of money as a backup, new planes and probably a new way of doing aviation in the country.

Smart move by Interjet in case they get the pilots, nasty MX movement! But if MX wants to assure all its pilots, they will have to rehire the 92 at the streets and keep happy the ones who are already flying for MX. At the end very interesting options and paths. Let’s see who win this one.

Quoting Kezensky (Thread starter):
They (MX) are now evaluating the possibility to hire more pilots in the near future (September or October '05) to overcome a possible pilot shortage due to this new startup airline.

More? This is, more than the 92 which are still waiting for its return? Better hurry up! By September Interjet planes have to be here! OTOH, I see a lot of new jobs at 6A, ZE and the rest of the carriers of former MX pilots! They will certainly move back to MX or Interjet if they are offered good payments.

Quoting Kezensky (Thread starter):
We also talked about the A330 and it's limitations here in MMMX especially for longhaul operations.

Well, A332s will only be used for EZE, which I see no problem as for LAX and ORD the other planned destinations I see no restrictions on routes.


Quoting Kezensky (Thread starter):
As somebody already mentioned before - Mexicana is still looking for a second B767 and they are currently also in Brazil looking for A320 replacements/additions!

Brazil? What? Ex. TAM, or what? Odd, TAM is the only bus operator in the country, and they are also currently working at major expansions and adding planes. I highly doubt MX will find something there.


Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:10 am

BTW, forgot to add this! A little extract from yesterday's newspaper...

Negocia Mexicana vuelo directo a China

La primera línea aérea mexicana en tener un vuelo directo México-República Popular de China será Mexicana de Aviación. Aunque las negociaciones van muy avanzadas entre las autoridades aeronáuticas y comerciales de ambos países, aún no se define la fecha ni el tipo de equipo que se utilizará. El Sol de México, Edgar González Martínez en “Los Capitales”, Finanzas, p.8


This reassure's the arrival of A340s to the fleet! B767s/A332s will not be able to the job as A340s!


Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 3):
La primera línea aérea mexicana en tener un vuelo directo México-República Popular de China será Mexicana de Aviación. Aunque las negociaciones van muy avanzadas entre las autoridades aeronáuticas y comerciales de ambos países, aún no se define la fecha ni el tipo de equipo que se utilizará.

We have beaten this dead horse before, but I still can't see how this route will be profitable. Hopefully I will be wrong.

BTW, I know European routes are NOW out of the question. Yet, if the new owners change their minds, would the A330/A340 be enough to support one or two European routes without axing the Chinese one?
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
Kezensky
Topic Author
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:03 am

Estimado Ghost:

1. When I said 12 more pilots in September I only meant "confirmed" or at least requested pilots! As you already know, nothing is for sure and we should never take anything for granted - especially not in this business.

2. In fact the new LCC is primarily interested in hiring active (experienced) MX A320 pilots! Why? Because there are plenty of senior (A320) F/O's with little or no chance to get promoted in the next few years (5+ years). But they have enough experience to make them potential candidates for Interjet.
If I take a wild guess - I see at least 10 to 15 MX pilots leaving CMA because of that reason.

3. BTW - only 21 pilots of the remaining 92 pilots, which are still pending to return to MX, have ever flown the A320. So the remaining 71 are not even taken into consideration for Interjet! And only 7 of the 21 are currently flying the Bus in Qatar, Vietnam and Singapore.

4. Concerning the A332 let me double check, but as far as I was told there is a serious weight penalty regarding the EZE route.

5. And YES they are checking for "new" A320's in Brazil. Don't ask me why!

TH
If you´re not having fun, you´re not doing it right!
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:46 pm

Quoting Kezensky (Reply 5):
Concerning the A332 let me double check, but as far as I was told there is a serious weight penalty regarding the EZE route.

But the 332 has more TOW than the 767 for that route (in the same config as MXB), and speaking of restrictions, today AM190 MEX-TIJ, payload restricted to 93Y passengers, that´s ugly.....
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 4):
We have beaten this dead horse before, but I still
can't see how this route will be profitable. Hopefully I will be wrong.

Probably market isn't as big as other markets are, but last year JL flew 41,000 pax, that compared to 1989 JL only flew 16,000 pax. Since then, route has have an steady grow, plus add to that all pax flying via LAX or SFO. Probably a market of 60,000 pax. All flying with foreign carriers, if traffic is small, lets then just steal market share or make things harder for the rest.

Quoting Kezensky (Reply 5):
If I take a wild guess - I see at least 10 to 15 MX pilots leaving CMA because of that reason.

Wow! Very interesting! Wonder what MX will do!

Quoting Kezensky (Reply 5):
BTW - only 21 pilots of the remaining 92 pilots, which are still pending to return to MX, have ever flown the A320.

Ok, very important fact! So, Interjet has possibilites of getting between 20 to 35 pilots! They will still need over 50 pilots to get trained!

Quoting Kezensky (Reply 5):
And YES they are checking for "new" A320's in Brazil. Don't ask me why!

Another interesting info! If MX is to bring ex. JJ toys, certainly those buses are newer than F- registered and owned buses at MX.

Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
anthsaun
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:33 am

Don´t forget that pilots get old and seek for retirement too.

The present trip to Russia by President Fox involves talks on air transport between the two countries. So, what would it be? Aeroflot coming back to Mexico, or AM or MX going over there?
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
Mexicana757
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:21 am

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 8):

I see Aeroflot going to Mexico first.
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1186
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 9):
I see Aeroflot going to Mexico first.

So do I. However, SU operations in MEX were always very thin: 20 thousand pax during the peak of their operations (1997), and only 6 thousand in their last year of operations in MEX (2001).

That is roughly the same as 33 full A320 in a whole year!!!!!!

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
pecevanne
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:10 am

No way friends...A-330-200 much more better than 767 from MEX.
Take off weight won´t have restrictions to EZE.( aprox 5000 NM trip without penalty)
Let me say that I heard some 767 pilots that they don´t "like " buses or prefer Boeings....why ??. Some of them jump direct from B-727 or F-100 to that aircraft.
Airbus assumptions for the A-330-200 is 22 celsius or 26 and this is much more efficient than the 16 celsius for the 767.( MEXICO CITY CASE)
Chao
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 10):
Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 9):
I see Aeroflot going to Mexico first.

So do I.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember that SU was the cheaper option to Europe. Of course, it's a long flight to Moscow and then connect to another European destination, but it seems that a lot of people didn't mind to do it that way.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
pzurita1
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:33 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 12):
Of course, it's a long flight to Moscow and then connect to another European destination, but it seems that a lot of people didn't mind to do it that way.

As mentioned, it seems that only 6,000 used SU in 2001. That figures is not a lot of people, but rather, just a very few.

Compare that with 94K pax using BA, or 155K flying AF. Even CityBird carried more pax (20,000) from MEX to BRU during that year (2001).



PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:47 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 7):
Another interesting info! If MX is to bring ex. JJ toys, certainly those buses are newer than F- registered and owned buses at MX.

Strange, but i do believe that it will only happen if JJ allows some of the A320 they are waiting for delivery from Airbus in favour of MX in exchange of others later and with some cash compensation. JJ fleet is in need of new buses and they just announced last friday a new A320 service. JJ is also profitbale and it's expanding their network.

Regards,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:58 am

MX will receive more buses, the intention is to finish 2005 with 62 aircraft, all F100 are going to be retired for september or december this year, MX still have to receive some A318´s and A319´s.
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EddieDude
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:52 am

Logan, any idea if MX will order additional A318's? (i.e., in addition to the 10 aircraft order).
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:08 am

Eddie, there are plans to order 5 more A318´s

And speaking of pilots, yesterday i talk with an MX pilot and he told me that MX will be hiring more pilots, that´s good, more aircraft, more pilots, and maybe more routes  biggrin 
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
EddieDude
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:33 am

Great! Thanks for the info Logan. This means that MX will be the largest operator of A318 aircraft if all 15 frames are delivered, right?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
This means that MX will be the largest operator of A318 aircraft if all 15 frames are delivered, right?

That´s right, just hope MX order them and get them, but the plans to get them are good, indeed, the company is really happy with the babybuses.
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
laca773
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:20 pm

What happened to the demo 321s they were going to get to try out for a while? Has that been dropped?
Have a good day.
LACA773
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 20):
What happened to the demo 321s they were going to get to try out for a while?

Some sources say that the dropped the airplanes because of the cost, but others still waiting for them....

Hope MX can get some, they could be great planes for the high density shorter routes (like MTY-MEX)

Cheers
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
Kezensky
Topic Author
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:02 am

Hi Folks!

Today at 1700Z will be the official presentation of the combined strategy of Click & Mexicana Airlines in Xola (MX-HQ). My source told me that he and some other ASPA members were invited.

Regarding the A332: Some MX pilots told me yesterday the main problem of the A330 is the price compared to the B767. They talked about a monthly fee of around $500,000.00 USD for the Airbus vs $300,000.00 USD for the Boeing. Please don't get me wrong - the numbers may not be completely accurate -it's just to visualize the huge difference in acquisition costs between those 2 aircraft.

Mexicana is also planning to change the itinerary of the MEX-JFK flight! They want to operate it as a Red-Eye flight. The pilots I spoked with yesterday are mainly concerned about the fact that in particular this flight is used by many business travelers...!

I will keep you in touch of today's events.

TH
If you´re not having fun, you´re not doing it right!
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:48 am

Hi kesensky, thanks for the info, you´re right about the lease cost of the A330, it´s a little bit higher than the 767, but MX is in talks with Airbus and some lessors to get a very good deal on the plane.

Cheers.
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting Kezensky (Reply 22):
Mexicana is also planning to change the itinerary of the MEX-JFK flight! They want to operate it as a Red-Eye flight. The pilots I spoked with yesterday are mainly concerned about the fact that in particular this flight is used by many business travelers...!

The new schedule is:

MX002 MEX-JFK 18:40 - 00:35
MX001 JFK-MEX 01:55 - 06:05

MX had too much competition from AM, CO and DL, which offer more flights with better schedules. I work for a company based in NY and the 18:40 departure is much better for us, since it allows us to work till 4 and then drive to the airport to catch the flight... The return portion will also help people coming from NY who want to fly business class and not miss a working day to get here... Connections to AA European flights will be more difficult, but ethnic traffic will be there, since MX used to operate their EWR flights with this schedule.
 
Kezensky
Topic Author
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:16 am

Hi N405MX:

The main issue here is the fact that the pilots don't want to see the company taking to many risks - when they're so close of getting sold. As for now MX is making money and things are moving in the right direction, but remember here in Mexico things can change dramatically almost in an eyeblink. What today may seem to be a good plan - tomorrow may be the worst idea ever! So to speak.
I don't want to dramatize this issue. Believe me - I'm probably one of the most interested here in this thread, that wants to see MX expanding (my future career is on the line).

Saludos

TH
If you´re not having fun, you´re not doing it right!
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting Kezensky (Reply 25):
I'm probably one of the most interested here in this thread, that wants to see MX expanding (my future career is on the line).

Not only yours.....

But sometimes, if you don´t risk, you don´t win (el que no arriesga no gana).

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting Kezensky (Reply 22):
Regarding the A332: Some MX pilots told me yesterday the main problem of the A330 is the price compared to the B767. They talked about a monthly fee of around $500,000.00 USD for the Airbus vs $300,000.00 USD for the Boeing. Please don't get me wrong - the numbers may not be completely accurate -it's just to visualize the huge difference in acquisition costs between those 2 aircraft.

Wow!! That's certainly a high number!! 2 weeks ago there was this thread about SAA paying 600,000 a month for their B747-400s and SAA arguments that the airline is paying a lot considering that for those 747s they should be paying something near to 450,000, AFAIK, lease for MX B767 is near to 150,000-200,000 and a lease for an A332 should be something near to 350-500,000. Certainly high compared to 767s! But hopefully MX get to a good agreement!

Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:24 pm

Hi all, here are some news:

In july (forgot the exact date, i´ll post it later...) MX will begin with the ticketless program, so now you can check in for your flight 48hrs before departure, only E-TKT´s and operated by MX/QA, not codeshares, speaking of codeshares, also in july the codeshare check in will finish, translation, if you buy an MX ticket operated by AM, you´ll have to check in with AM.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 27):
Certainly high compared to 767s! But hopefully MX get to a good agreement!

They are on that, hopefully we will be seing the A330 soon.
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
EddieDude
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:20 am

Quoting N405MX (Reply 28):
also in july the codeshare check in will finish, translation, if you buy an MX ticket operated by AM, you´ll have to check in with AM

That's good to know, so thanks a lot for the info. However, I think it would be very convenient to passengers if this cooperation of check in remained for MEX-MTY and MEX-GDL flights.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:25 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 29):
I think it would be very convenient to passengers if this cooperation of check in remained for MEX-MTY and MEX-GDL flights.

Yep, also here in MTY with a lot of passengers connecting to LH, IB, etc, if they got an AM tag, the bags stay in MEX, the bag need the MX tag so it can be carried by LH or the others (because AM has no agreement with them).
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
AM001
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:44 pm

RE: Mexicana Airlines

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting N405MX (Reply 28):
also in july the codeshare check in will finish, translation, if you buy an MX ticket operated by AM

The code share will be ended??? including FF agreements??? too bad...
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
EddieDude
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RE: Mexicana Airlines

Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:59 am

I understood that the only thing that is over is the ability to check in the counters of both carriers indistinctly, but not the codesharing per se or the mileage accrual/redemption arrangement. Let's see what Logan says.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:46 pm

RE: Mexicana Airlines

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:04 am

Quoting AM001 (Reply 31):
The code share will be ended??? including FF agreements??? too bad...

Negative

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 32):
I understood that the only thing that is over is the ability to check in the counters of both carriers indistinctly, but not the codesharing per se or the mileage accrual/redemption arrangement

Correct

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 32):
Let's see what Logan says

This thing goes like this, for example, you buy a ticket MTY-MEX route on flight AM3290 (MX190), you´ll have to check in on MX´s, or if you buy the same ticket, now on flight MX1547 (AM947), you´ll have to check in with AM, not MX counter.

Cheers
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....

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