rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:00 pm

3 744s and 1 777 operated JFK-TLV tonight.....Have the summer schedules kicked in, or was this an operational change?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2151
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:05 pm

They're probably for Birthright which starts today, I believe.

USFLyer MSP
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:20 pm

Not to mention the 744 out of EWR, and a 744 on it's way into EWR. I think we know where all 5 of El Al's 744s are tonight!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:32 pm

El Al is operating a busy schedule this summer to Israel.

They are flying a total of 28 flights a week between New York City (JFK and Newark) and Tel Aviv. Depedning on the day, they will offer as many as six daily flights! (I think Thursday sees six daily flights; four from JFK and two from EWR). MIA and ORD see two weekly flights each (MIA 744s, ORD 772s), while LA and Toronto are getting six (767s).
a.
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:15 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
MIA and ORD see two weekly flights each (MIA 744s, ORD 772s

ORD's two weekly are actually, one 744 and the other 772.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
while LA and Toronto are getting six (767s).

Its actually 6 weekly flights to LA via Toronto and another 3 only to Toronto. In all 9 Flights to YYZ.
 
B742
Posts: 3559
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
They are flying a total of 28 flights a week between New York City (JFK and Newark) and Tel Aviv. Depedning on the day, they will offer as many as six daily flights! (I think Thursday sees six daily flights; four from JFK and two from EWR).

Great to see so many El Al aircraft in NCY!

Do they still operate the 747 to BKK and LHR, if so the 200 or 400?

Rob!
 
PRGLY
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:52 pm

One of 744 - 4XELB - is leaving on sunday evening for PRG from JFK, it will land here 27JUN at 0755 morning bringing 475 kids. We will have some fun with this aircraft here, all the airport will just watch it and not work
just fly - it is nice
 
JrMafia90
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:36 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
Great to see so many El Al aircraft in NCY!

Do you mean NYC?

I know just a little typo.  Wink
 
Lucky727
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:27 pm

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:09 am

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 1):
They're probably for Birthright which starts today, I believe.

Excuse my ignorance, but what's 'Birthright'?
··· [·] oooooooo [·] oooo oo ooooo [·] ooooooooooooooooooo [·]
 
LY4XELD
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:17 am

Quoting Lucky727 (Reply 8):

Excuse my ignorance, but what's 'Birthright'?

Birthright is a program for young Jews to go to Israel for "free" or cheap (I can't remember) if they have never been before (under the age of 25, I believe). They have huge groups that go at once. El Al is the carrier of choice from the US. With the large population of Jews in the NY metro area, its no surprise that they may bring in some extra a/c, but I don't know how many it would warrant.
That's why we're here.
 
TimeForFlight
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2000 6:36 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 9):
Birthright is a program for young Jews to go to Israel for "free" or cheap (I can't remember)

It's free for young adults aged 18-25. The groups themselves are relatively small, but they buy loads of seats on each El Al flight. Thousands travel each session (summer and winter)... Students are responsible for getting to NYC on their own...El AL is chosen to support Israel's economy.

Quoting PRGLY (Reply 6):
One of 744 - 4XELB - is leaving on sunday evening for PRG from JFK, it will land here 27JUN at 0755 morning bringing 475 kids. We will have some fun with this aircraft here, all the airport will just watch it and not work

This is actually a NFTY in Israel flight. All high school students - not college. The only way I know this is because I was on a flight like this to Athens in 2000 and know people who will be in Prague for this event.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:52 am

The groups themselves are relatively small, but they buy loads of seats on each El Al flight. Thousands travel each session (summer and winter)...

About 85,000 have gone so far. I've heard that 10,000 are going this summer alone.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
as739x
Posts: 4993
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:54 am

Will El Al every operate SFO service? I worked a LY charter years ago and was a blast seeing them here. Possibly a 2 weekly via NYC area or YYZ?

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:00 am

Possibly a 2 weekly via NYC area or YYZ?

I wonder why they don't fly to more cities. I would imagine that they could fill up flights to Philidelphia, Boston, or San Fran if they flew 2X weekly similiar to Miami and Chicago.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
I wonder why they don't fly to more cities. I would imagine that they could fill up flights to Philidelphia, Boston, or San Fran if they flew 2X weekly similiar to Miami and Chicago.

Miami has a Jewish population more than double that of any of those cities and a huge Israeli immigrant community second to NYC. Chicago doesn't have as large a Jewish community (it is smaller than even Philadelphia), but a large Israeli community and a very wealthy Jewish community. Filling planes to Miami and O'Hare (Miami does well; O'Hare isn't an outstanding performer for El Al) doesn't mean they can fill them elsewhere.
a.
 
aviationwiz
Posts: 882
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:27 am

A friend of mine is going to Israel on some synagogue youth group thing and is taking Ibera from JFK-MAD-TLV and they will be in MAD for 2 weeks.
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2314
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:06 am

Maybe we'll see add that third daily EWR-TLV flight within the next few years. Any predictions??
 
as739x
Posts: 4993
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:13 am

MAH4546, the Bay Area has a very large Jewish population. I have people connecting to LY on our morning LAX flight all the time. Maybe we will see them here one day!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:16 am

Los Angeles has both a significant Jewish and Israeli born population. Many parts of town specifically Mid City and the Westside are so much so that during Jewish holidays even schools close. Some refer to Beverly Hills as "Kosher Canyon" LOL..

El Al has done well in LA for several decades now. They seem to have settled on the TLV-YYZ-LAX route as of recent years using B767s. For a few years El Al ran a Saturday night LAX-TLV 14hour nonstop using B744s during the summer. With a strong peak of traffic during the summer months this flight would go out with every seat full week after week.

Btw, is Israir(sp) back to NY with its B767 service this year? Always tought it was nice to have some domestic competition for El Al.

[Edited 2005-06-24 01:21:39]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:26 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 17):
MAH4546, the Bay Area has a very large Jewish population. I have people connecting to LY on our morning LAX flight all the time. Maybe we will see them here one day!

As you previously had mentioned El Al for a couple of summers during the late 90s did operate to SFO using North American MD-80 and B757s. If I remember correctly the flight was on Sunday mornings, as I would have to make the treck up to SFO along with half of El Al's LAX staff on a very early UA shuttle flight. Flights went out from the TWA gates.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MAH4546
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:30 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 17):
MAH4546, the Bay Area has a very large Jewish population. I have people connecting to LY on our morning LAX flight all the time. Maybe we will see them here one day!

I am not denying that. San Francisco's Jewish community is roughly about 200,000, which is significant. But the community can't even compare to Miami and LA (500k+ each, with some estimates putting both at above 600k) and none hold a candle to NYC (1.7M+). In those three cities, the Jewish populations are so significant that many Jewish holidays are observed even by the city. I know in Miami, public school's don't even open on Rosh Hashanah, and in certain neighbourhoods of all three, nothing is open on Saturdays observing the Shabbath. More significantly than having a Jewish community is an Israeli community and business ties with Israel. NY, Miami, LA, and Chicago all have very significant Israeli communities and ties. Chicago's Jewish community is not much larger than San Fran's, but El Al serves the city because of the Israeli community and business ties, not just the Jewish community. And the much longer stage length that it takes to get to west coast doesn't help either. If El Al expands in North America, I would expect to see them return to Montreal or go to Washington Dulles.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
Btw, is Israir(sp) back to NY with its B767 service this year? Always tought it was nice to have some domestic competition for El Al.

Yes, they are. I have a friend that took the flight this past Sunday.
a.
 
lh600
Posts: 157
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:04 am

WOW!!!

Good for El Al. I wonder why they don't operate bigger aircraft into LAX and YYZ???
 
IAD777
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 7:15 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:14 am

I always wanted El Al to fly TLV-IAD.

Washington has a very large Jewish community as well as (obviously) being the nations capital. Shouldn't EL Al be able to make money on a daily flight given these two factors? I'd also LOVE to see United fly to Tel Aviv.
History shall be kind to me; for I intend to write it -WSC
 
futterman
Posts: 1261
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:28 am

Sure, many cities have big Jewish populations, but there's only ONE B&H.

Yeah, Futterman's a Jew, so just laugh.
What the FUTT?
 
ACAfan
Posts: 690
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:36 am

Maybe the large number of seats is because demand is greater on Thursday night.

LY cannot fly on Friday night so people who wanted to get to Israel would just fly on Thursday, increasing demand for that day.
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
MAH4546
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:39 am

Quoting LH600 (Reply 21):
Good for El Al. I wonder why they don't operate bigger aircraft into LAX and YYZ???

Because instead they choose to operate smaller aircraft and more frequency. They used fly 3-4x a week using 772s.

Quoting Iad777 (Reply 22):

Washington has a very large Jewish community as well as (obviously) being the nations capital. Shouldn't EL Al be able to make money on a daily flight given these two factors?

Daily flights would not work. I think they could do well with 3x weekly service, though.

Before anything, though, MIA and ORD will go non-stop, which El Al actually announced will be done soon, though no timeline has been set.
a.
 
klwright69
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:45 am

Of course the million dollar question is when will more U.S. carriers serve TLV.
 
dstefanc
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:53 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:05 am

Hey,

Trying to stay on topic of El Al but shifting to a different geographical location, the airline flies those same heavies to WAW and KRK in Poland during certain times of the year. Now that is amazing and REALLY! cool, since there is no other airline (charter or scheduled) that operates 747's to Poland. I included some pictures below from the database to prove my point  cool  . I bet it is an amazing site when that plane arrives at either of the airports, because it must look so so huge (since it's the only Jumbo there) compared to all those 737's, 320 family, ATR's, etc. and the occasional 767 from LOT. Oh and by the way, You get to deplane through the stairs, so You get to walk right next to the plane. Now that's really cool in my opinion, because You get to see the plane up close!!!

747 @ WAW





744 @ KRK

*note - taken from the Krakow Balice Airport website gallery





Cheers,

Damian
 
nm19371
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:02 pm

" I would imagine that they could fill up flights to Philidelphia, Boston, or San Fran if they flew 2X weekly similiar to Miami and Chicago."

I'm pretty sure that El Al did serve BOS back in the 80s - at least they were listed on the Terminal E sign and I think I remember one of their 707s parked there.

"Washington has a very large Jewish community as well as (obviously) being the nations capital. Shouldn't EL Al be able to make money on a daily flight given these two factors? "

They did fly into BWI until the mid 90s and there was an El Al sign on the terminal until a couple of years ago. Don't know why they stopped.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:06 pm

Quoting Nm19371 (Reply 28):
They did fly into BWI until the mid 90s and there was an El Al sign on the terminal until a couple of years ago. Don't know why they stopped.

Yes, they did. Though it was with North American feeder services. North American flew BWI-JFK (and I believe BWI-YUL too) to feed LY flights for these. They used North American feeder services throughout the 1990s. The agreement ended in August 2003, when LY tookover the last two remaining NAA feeder routes, to Miami and Chicago.
a.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:18 pm

Why did the agreement with NAA end, Mah? I was under the impression that El Al was quite happy with it--Pax getting off a 747 at JFK and onto a North American plane to MIA, etc.

Of course the million dollar question is when will more U.S. carriers serve TLV.

There was a rumor on A.net about NW looking at DTW-TLV but I haven't heard anything since.

Before anything, though, MIA and ORD will go non-stop, which El Al actually announced will be done soon, though no timeline has been set.

Do they have the metal to operate these separate from their EWR flights?

What would you rate the chances of them expanding to IAD as?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):
Why did the agreement with NAA end, Mah? I was under the impression that El Al was quite happy with it--Pax getting off a 747 at JFK and onto a North American plane to MIA, etc.

I am not sure exactly why the agreement ended. El Al sold off their 49% in stake in NAA at the same time, not sure if one had to do with the other.

However, I do know passengers did not enjoy thinking they were going to be boarding an El Al plane in Miami, and then getting on an NAA flight. From a customer's point of view, El Al took a huge step.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):

Do they have the metal to operate these separate from their EWR flights?

I don't know the exact answer, but I don't think so. They do utilize their long-haul fleet quite heavily. El Al has said little about making ORD and MIA non-stop other than actually saying they are planning too.
a.
 
chepos
Posts: 5932
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:45 pm

Sorry to divert off topic but I remember back when EL AL flew to MCO , at one point I even got to see a EL AL 747 at Terminal A but most of the times I would see NAA MD-80's. I remember being in the boarding area of this particular EL AL 747 flight which had a routing MCO-JFK-TLV and only about 30 people max boarding the flight.

Im prety sure the EL AL flights to Central Flroida were catering to Israeli tourists but Im thinking we dont get as many Israeli torusits to warant sending their own metal to Central Florida. In fact I think even the NAA feeder fights to Orlando with MD-80's were a bit too much at that.
I found a token pic of an EL AL 747 at Orlando.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nigel O. Prince

Fly the Flag!!!!
 
ly7e7
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:15 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:05 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
El Al has said little about making ORD and MIA non-stop other than actually saying they are planning too.

I think these are already bookable via LY's website...
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:19 pm

Accordingh to amadeus

4 fluights depart from TLV to JFK between 7:30 am and 8:30 am. With all tzhese amounts of flights so close couldn't El AL be a potential customer of the A380 ????
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
ly7e7
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:15 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:11 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 34):
With all tzhese amounts of flights so close couldn't El AL be a potential customer of the A380 ????

Hardly. Such things occur rarely.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:28 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
El Al sold off their 49% in stake in NAA at the same time, not sure if one had to do with the other.

It was actually a 24.9% stake that they sold.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 34):
With all tzhese amounts of flights so close couldn't El AL be a potential customer of the A380

Yes, but i guess 2 - 3 planes would be enough - just for NYC. Mayeb they can use them to BKK and LHR twice a week as well.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 33):
I think these are already bookable via LY's website...

NO?!? Where did you see that?

Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 26):
Of course the million dollar question is when will more U.S. carriers serve TLV

There is some talk of AA operating direct service to MIA with continuing service to S. AMRICA. I think GIG/GRU or EZE.



For all those interested, there used to be JFK - BOS - TLV and JFK - YMX - TLV flights in the 80's.
In the 80's you could find many alternatives to the nonstop jfk - tlv service. There were many flghts through europe as well (AMS, LHR, ROM, PAR and even until recently STN).
 
chepos
Posts: 5932
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:48 pm

With the mess AA left at TLV when they bought TWA I dont really think AA will be flying to Israel in the near future. I think it was something about employee compenstaion or something like that, I dont have the nitty gritty but it was something along those lines.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:44 am

However, I do know passengers did not enjoy thinking they were going to be boarding an El Al plane in Miami, and then getting on an NAA flight. From a customer's point of view, El Al took a huge step.

Did passengers flying NAA go through the same El Al security (interviews, etc)?

Yes, but i guess 2 - 3 planes would be enough - just for NYC. Mayeb they can use them to BKK and LHR twice a week as well.

Many airlines could fill the 380, doesn't mean they will get them.

There is some talk of AA operating direct service to MIA with continuing service to S. AMRICA. I think GIG/GRU or EZE.

Really? That's interesting...AA would have to resolve the issues from the TWA purchase first though. If I recall correctly, the Israeli government could seize any AA aircraft that lands in Israel to pay the TWA employees what they are owed.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
PlaneGuy27
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:38 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:11 am

Washington-Baltimore also has to be one of the biggest Jewish populations in the US. We also get off for Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur for our public school systems (atleast in Montgomery County, Maryland suburbs)
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
There is some talk of AA operating direct service to MIA with continuing service to S. AMRICA. I think GIG/GRU or EZE.

Really? That's interesting...AA would have to resolve the issues from the TWA purchase first though. If I recall correctly, the Israeli government could seize any AA aircraft that lands in Israel to pay the TWA employees what they are owed.

Exactly. AA can't fly to Israel unless they pay some former TWA employees a lot of money.
a.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:47 am

Exactly. AA can't fly to Israel unless they pay some former TWA employees a lot of money.

How about rehiring them?  Smile
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
EL-AL
Posts: 1414
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 8:29 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:34 am

The US airlines flying to Israel seems to had bad luck during all the years. The only US airline flying to Israel is Continental Airlines from EWR using their B772s twice a day.
Delta operated JFK-TLV route in the early 90s using their B767-300ER, but they had no luck with it. The B763ER usually had to refuel in Ireland on its way back from Tel Aviv, and this line was dropped. In the summer of 2001 Delta re-opended the JFK-TLV route this time using MD-11. Already in the secend flight the flight was cencled due to terror attack in Tel Aviv (1/6/01) and the passengers were taken eventually with LY B747. The Israeli public lose it trust in Delta, and the route was dropped 3 months after it was reopen.
TWA flew over to Israel for more then 30 years, since the 60s, using their B747 and later with their B767-300ER. As said, when AA bought TWA whey did not pay to the Israeli employees of TWA, flew out the B767 in the middle of the night and banned from Israel ever since.
Tower Air, owned by former Israeli who used to work in LY, flew to Israel with their B747. JFK-TLV-JFK was one of Tower Air's most important routes. In the Israel public Tower Air was remembered as the only non-Israeli airline who continue to operate flights to Tel Aviv during the (first) Gulf war.
Pan Am used to fly to Israel as well until the end of the airline.
Northwest do not operate direct US-Israel route, but they operate codeshare flights with KLM via AMS.

About the A380, I dont think LY should buy it. LY's B747-400s seems to do their job, we dont need a bigger plane then the B744, even on the NYC route. In addition, in order to land the A380 in Ben Gurion airport the Israel Airports Authority must build larger Gates in the New Terminal 3. Furthermore, all of LY fleet is Boeing, it is not cheap to make it a mixed Boeing-Airbus fleet.

Jonathan

PS. I will fly to Toronto with LY in 3 months.
every day is a good day to fly
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 42):
As said, when AA bought TWA whey did not pay to the Israeli employees of TWA, flew out the B767 in the middle of the night and banned from Israel ever since.

They are not banned from Israel. They are welcome to fly there, if they pay the money they owe their employees.
a.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:07 am

They are not banned from Israel. They are welcome to fly there, if they pay the money they owe their employees.

Weren't a lot of them lifelong TWA employees? Shame to see such old timers getting screwed out of their pensions...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
levg79
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:59 am

RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:30 am

Back to the original question, most of the LY's NYC-TLV flights are fully booked throughout the summer. Therefore, Birthright had to charter planes specifically for the program. It's not even surprising they chose LY. These flights have special flight numbers which do not even show up on LY's website. This explains frequent flights between NYC and TLV.
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rjpieces
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:37 pm

Therefore, Birthright had to charter planes specifically for the program. It's not even surprising they chose LY. These flights have special flight numbers which do not even show up on LY's website. This explains frequent flights between NYC and TLV.


As far as I know, most birthright trips use regular El Al flights, although a few have been chartered.
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SFOMEX
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:39 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 45):
It's not even surprising they chose LY. These flights have special flight numbers which do not even show up on LY's website.

Why? Just because they are charters or it's a security matter?
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amirs
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:49 pm

Quoting Chepos (Reply 37):
With the mess AA left at TLV when they bought TWA I dont really think AA will be flying to Israel in the near future. I think it was something about employee compenstaion or something like that, I dont have the nitty gritty but it was something along those lines.



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
AA would have to resolve the issues from the TWA purchase first though. If I recall correctly, the Israeli government could seize any AA aircraft that lands in Israel to pay the TWA employees what they are owed.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
Exactly. AA can't fly to Israel unless they pay some former TWA employees a lot of money.

Thanks all making that comment, but it is obvious that that is one of the issues they are discussing now in order to get the approval. The other issues is what exact airport in the US and Latin America.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
Yes, but i guess 2 - 3 planes would be enough - just for NYC. Mayeb they can use them to BKK and LHR twice a week as well.

Many airlines could fill the 380, doesn't mean they will get them.

I didn't say they will get them, just made the comment that if they do, it could only be filled on NYC daily. All ear round.

I guess for most EL AL issues - 787? 350? new routes? 380? 744? new freighters? New Platinum? New First class? Getting rid of First Class? we will need to wait until EL AL publishes its 10 year plan. They are currently finishing it up. Amongst things It will evaluate pax and route potentials, and then plan all changes from the conclusions. It should be interesting.
 
rjpieces
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RE: 4 El Al JFK-TLV Flights Tonight, Why?

Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:34 am

I guess for most EL AL issues - 787? 350? new routes? 380? 744? new freighters? New Platinum? New First class? Getting rid of First Class? we will need to wait until EL AL publishes its 10 year plan. They are currently finishing it up. Amongst things It will evaluate pax and route potentials, and then plan all changes from the conclusions. It should be interesting.

Any idea when it will come out (the 10 year plan)?
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