rootsair
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Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:43 pm

Yesterday, the Swiss railway network totally shut down! No train was circulating whatsoever(NB look at the non av forum for more details).

Because of this, many people were not able to catch their flight and many I guess have to wait another day or take an alternative route to their destination.

In case of a major shutdown like this affecting the whole country, what can airlines do ?
After all its not the passengers' fault if they couldn't catch their flight !

Would they still get the travellers in another flight for free(LCC except)
Or would they say its not their fault since it concerns the train company?
Could the train company compensate for missing the flight ?

Since I'm sure quite a few a.netters are aware of the policies concerning missed flights when its not your fault I thought I'd ask the question here!

Regards
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
GQfluffy
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:47 pm

Wow. Being in America where we don't have this sort of thing...I'm not sure I have any idea....

Technically, if the passenger doesn't arrive to check-in, regardless of the circumstances, it's not our (or whatever airline) fault he/she didn't show up. My guess is that Swiss would waive any rebooking charges assuming there are seats to be had. Just a guess...

fluffy
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
Leskova
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:29 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 1):
Technically, if the passenger doesn't arrive to check-in, regardless of the circumstances, it's not our (or whatever airline) fault he/she didn't show up.

Which is exactly the way it works here as well - if you're going to the airport by train, by bus, by car, or - for the fun of it - walking, it doesn't matter: if you're not there on time, it's your problem.

Unless, of course, the train was operating in a codesharing agreement with the airline and, thus, operated under one of their flight numbers, because then, it would be the same as a feeder-flight with tech difficulties.

Perhaps, because of the scale of the events, the airlines will help in reaccommodating passengers - but as I see it, they could simply say "Sorry, your plane has left already, you were a noshow".

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
felixZRH
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airli

Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:02 pm

It seems that yesterday weren't more noshows than usual in ZRH.

The NZZ writes the following:

Quote:
Trotz den gravierenden Störungen auf dem SBB-Streckennetz meldete der Flughafen Zürich keine Probleme. Die Reisenden hätten fü die Fahrt vom und zum Flughafen auf andere Verkehrsmittel zurückgegriffen, teilte Unique mit. Sogenannte 'No Shows', also Passagiere, die ihren Flug verpassten, habe es nur im üblichen Rahmen gegeben.

And ZRH is not far from the city, so just by fun I walked on Monday home after arriving from HAM. As I live in the northern suburb Oerlikon it took just a little bit more than an hour.

[Edited 2005-06-23 09:22:49]
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:15 pm

This is weird question. It is not the airline's fault if anybody does not catch the flight because his train/car/taxi/bus did not work. The airlines don't have to do anything. If any passenger did not catch the plane because of the railway shutdown this passenger would have to look for compensations at the railway company. But, as posted, not many passengers missed a flight because of the not running trains.
 
nycflyer
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:17 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Yesterday, the Swiss railway network totally shut down! Because of this, many people were not able to catch their flight .

Aren't there taxis in Switzerland?  Yeah sure
 
CV990
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:46 pm

Hi.

What you do is sue the SBB and ask them to pay your airline ticket.... I think from then on next time they will be more carefull about that!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
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PipoA380
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:55 pm

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 5):
en't there taxis in Switzerland?

Let's say your train stopped somewhere between hürliberg-im-obeland and kandersteg-am-marzipan, or between echallens-les-foins and vuillardens-les-pétzouilles, try finding something civilized!

There were about 100'000 people that were in the trains at that time. The lucky ones were in a station somewhere. The unlucky ones were in the situation described above, and with about 30 degrees celcius yesterday, the Air Conditioning didn't work anymore (no power)...

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 1):
Being in America where we don't have this sort of thing

What kind of dumb comment is that? Of course you don't, you don't have trains!

BTW, the New York blackout, what was that?
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
rootsair
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airli

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:37 pm

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 7):
h�rliberg-im-obeland and kandersteg-am-marzipan, or between echallens-les-foins and vuillardens-les-p�tzouilles, try finding something civilized!

HAHAHA funny names!

Here are some real names that i've spotted out in Switz

Oberunterhorstetten
Hunikon Bei Eftenbach
Meziriens -pres -Tassignens
Blagnens pres Echichens(more like a hamlet)
Vugelles la mothe
Peney-le -Jorat
Vers-chez-les blanc
Vers l'Eglise
and the best one

Grattavache (in english it would be translated as scratch your cow)
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
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PipoA380
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:00 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 8):
Vers-chez-les blanc

Hey I don't live far from this one actually!! But it's a real stupid name!
RootsAir, I heard you were living near Lausanne? Is that true? Then you also know "Chalet-à-Gobet" which is a stupid name too!
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
rootsair
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:44 pm

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 9):
RootsAir, I heard you were living near Lausanne?

Well I actually live in Nyon but I study Med in le CHUV so I'm very familiar with the region. Otherwise I'm out in Geneva a lot too . Indeed I know Ch�let � Gobet...and must agree its a degree below Vers-chez-les -blancs. Cheers mate !
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
carmenlu15
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:53 pm

No trains here, so no problem! Big grin

But when there is a problem such as blocked roads due to protests, airlines usually waive penalty and rebook passengers in the next available flight.
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
GQfluffy
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 7):
What kind of dumb comment is that? Of course you don't, you don't have trains!

Just stating a fact. Don't be an ass about it. Where I live, a mass-transit system would not be feasable (as is the same for about 75% of the rest of America). It would have to basically be run on government funds alone. No people out here in the wilderness.  Wink

fluffy
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
commavia
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:14 am

Yep, as others have said -- in the U.S., if you don't show up, you don't board. Simple and straightforward. The only exception to this rule is if it is an interline connection. In that case, then the airline would be responsible for getting you to where you were going. For example, if an SNCF rail train was late from Angers to CDG, and it was an UA-coded train, than UA would be responsible for somehow getting the passenger to their destination. If, however, a passenger bought an Angers-CDG train ticket with SNCF and a seperate CDG-ORD ticket on UA, than UA has know responsibility because from where they're sitting, they have no idea where you are coming from and nor do they care.

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 7):
What kind of dumb comment is that? Of course you don't, you don't have trains!

And for good reason, too. They don't work here because people won't pay for them. The only train system we have in this country is a financial black whole the taxpayers continually have to bail out. The trains are inefficient, unreliable and inconvenient. Perhaps if they were privatized, something could be done, but as for now, trains in the U.S. just don't work. Other mass-transit systems, like buses, subways and light-rail are far more effective.
 
BCAL
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 1):
Technically, if the passenger doesn't arrive to check-in, regardless of the circumstances, it's not our (or whatever airline) fault he/she didn't show up

In the UK, airlines are not liable for any missed departures or inconvenience suffered on your trip to the airport. If there are no trains, or the rail network shuts down completely, you have to seek alternative means to get to the airport on time. If you miss your flight, unless you are on a legacy carrier which will try and find you an alternative, the usual response will be something along the lines, "Tough luck! Your plane has left/check in closed and you're left behind."

In fact, in the UK it is a common experience that major roadworks cause massive traffic jams (the motorways around LHR and LGW are hot spots), and trains often suffer from delays (sometimes due to simple things like "leaves on the line" or "hot weather") and engineering works (often timed to coincide with a peak holiday period) that many airlines actually advise passengers to allow extra time for their journey to the airport due to the above. Some UK airlines also advise passengers to check for road traffic/rail reports before leaving for the airport.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:24 am

As brutal as it sounds the airlines shouldn't be held responsible for train delays, etc and I can understand when they take the "not our problem" position. Pity all those EasyJet, Ryanair passengers. They were definitely screwed!! HOWEVER, the case in Switzerland is a bit different because the ENTIRE country was affected. I would think legacy airlines would be wise to try their best to help people get to their destination simply from a public relations perspective. Think about it what is better for an airline`s reputation:

1) tough luck, we got your cash, you weren't here for check-in, go away and don't bother us. Results=customers really pissed off at the airline and becoming aggressive, abusive towards employees, and bad-mouthing the airlines whenever they get a chance
or
2) we understand your predictiment, we'll do what we can to help, be patient and let's see if we can find a solution to make you, as a customer, happy. Result= happy customer made to feel his/her problem was taken seriously, impressed with airlines professionalism, likely to fly them again and speak fondly of them when they get a chance

BTW isn't there some "rule" in the US about missing a flight and then if you say according to "rule blah blah" the airline is required to rebook you. I'm not sure exactly I sort of remember hearing something along this line from a travel agent years ago. Any clues????
A330 man.
 
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PipoA380
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 10):

Well I actually live in Nyon but I study Med in le CHUV so I'm very familiar with the region

Cool! Hope we meet someday! Cheers!
Pipo
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:49 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
They don't work here because people won't pay for them. The only train system we have in this country is a financial black whole the taxpayers continually have to bail out.

= Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Swiss Rail also subsidized and also a loss making entity?
Live, and let live.
 
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PipoA380
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:03 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 17):
Swiss Rail also subsidized and also a loss making entity

Subsidized, yes, but I'm not sure they make loss! Our post offices are the same status than the trains and they make money!
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:04 am

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 15):
BTW isn't there some "rule" in the US about missing a flight and then if you say according to "rule blah blah" the airline is required to rebook you. I'm not sure exactly I sort of remember hearing something along this line from a travel agent years ago. Any clues????

I believe you are referring to the "flat tyre" policy. If you are late to the airport, but still arrive within a certain time of your original flight, the airline will allow you to travel (stand-by?) on the next flight. It doesn't have to be a flat tyre that has made you late - that is just the name that has been given to the policy by some US airlines.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 19):
I believe you are referring to the "flat tyre" policy. If you are late to the airport, but still arrive within a certain time of your original flight, the airline will allow you to travel (stand-by?) on the next flight. It doesn't have to be a flat tyre that has made you late - that is just the name that has been given to the policy by some US airlines.

Thanks for the information.

So if I'm late for any reason but say to the check-in person "my car had a flat" they have to help me or they can help me? Big difference.....

I can't imagine an EasyJet or Ryanair employee being that helpful......
A330 man.
 
rootsair
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 16):

Cool! Hope we meet someday! Cheers!
Pipo

volontiers! T'as mon email !
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
buckieboy
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:19 am

Hi All,

I've just been in the UK for a few days and I must admit that I am shocked with the statement made by the original poster. I have lived in Switzerland for nearly three years and in this time have taken approximately 1000 trains: during this time I have suffered just one cancellation and three trains over 15 minutes late. I can see UK travellers going green with envy.....

However, reading the title my post would have been:

Reinstate flights to PEK & PVG as a priority, even if the African flights suffer. Exploit the GVA-NYC route. Bring the ZRH to HKG business class service up to a similar standard to LH's Asian offerings, to name a few.  Wink

Cheers

Buckieboy
I'm taking orders from bottles of wine
 
SWISSER
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RE: Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:07 am

To the Swiss residents,
is this real or fake?
I cannot believe that the entire railway system went down?
BLS, SBB, FO, RhB...?

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 7):
Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 1):
Being in America where we don't have this sort of thing

What kind of dumb comment is that? Of course you don't, you don't have trains!

BTW, the New York blackout, what was that?

Nothing to comment further except this,
The swiss railways are one of the best in the world, both in infrastructure as service, most of there mainline trains are even capable of driving 230Km/h!
Thats why so many codeshares are found on SBB.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
And for good reason, too. They don't work here because people won't pay for them. The only train system we have in this country is a financial black whole the taxpayers continually have to bail out. The trains are inefficient, unreliable and inconvenient. Perhaps if they were privatized, something could be done, but as for now, trains in the U.S. just don't work. Other mass-transit systems, like buses, subways and light-rail are far more effective.

Agreed and quite normal, when you have to take Kyoto in mind you don't need such a poluting mass transport system like for instance...unefficient slow electric trains...

How silly and stupid can it be, jumping on a silly sharp-looking silverlike train in Brussels and arriving very unreliable and inconveniently into Paris nord station 1 hour later...

Maybe we take US and EU railway material under one hat! And that is so wrong!
but there is already hope, the northeast corridor and Acela in the USA!
What time is top of descent?

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