hardiwv
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KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:11 pm

I read this post from a fellow a.net member and thought it could be useful to start a thread to collect more views and information:

Lima: "Interesting about crew restrictions. I read a copy of Wolken Ridder (KLM staff magazine) an article over Lima, Peru. Apparently they evaluate the possibility to open a nonstop 777 flight AMS-LIM"

Currently KL operates daily nonstops to GRU (B777) and MEX (B747); LIM (M11) and UIO/GYE are served with a stop-over in the Dutch Caribbean.

I see there is market potential for KL to go nonstop to both LIM and UIO/GYE, especially under AF codeshare. Any views?

Rgs,
 
lima
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:21 pm

Hola Hardi!

Tudo bem??

Yes this article in Wolken Ridder stated that they were evaluating replacing the current flight with a nonstop 777. Flights to Lima according to the article are always extremly full or overbooked. But then, what about yields? They say traffic is mostly ethnic to southern Europe, and tourist from Europe.

Also KLM strategy is to eliminate this stop over flights as they cost more money with crews stays and so. It could be...

Sebastian
 
richardw
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:24 pm

Would the MD-11 be utilsed elsewhere? Would give OW airlines from LON a bit of competition on LON-LIMA, which would be good.
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:42 pm

When I took that flight, the flight was completely full - oversold - they were asking for people to volunteer to take the next flight. Very few people got on or off in Aruba.
 
hardiwv
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting Lima (Reply 1):
Yes this article in Wolken Ridder stated that they were evaluating replacing the current flight with a nonstop 777. Flights to Lima

Hola, Sebastian! Tks for the interesting information.

Rgs,
 
A388
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:39 am

Interesting news. I had a conversation a friend about this exact topic. However, these are only rumours. But as some of you have said, it sounds like a logical move, when looking at the costs that KLM can save with the crew base being 'moved' to any of these South American countries as these countries are much cheaper. Combined with the fact that people would prefer a non-stop flight instead of a stop-over, this can make it more attractive to KLM. KLM will eventually save crew costs and make the routes more competitive by offering non-stop flights. KLM now has the aircraft that can fly the route non-stop (777/332) so why not make use of the aircraft's range?

For the Dutch Caribbean islands this, however, can be a major blow, as the crew base is crucial to the airports there.

Only time will tell what KLM will decide. Looking at the pros and cons of the non-stop flights against the stop-over in the Caribbean, I can imagine KLM will eventually decide to drop the Caribbean hub to save a bit more money. Airlines nowadays are looking even closer at cost savings, so it wouldn't surprise my in the end.

I guess we'll have to wait for now.

A388
 
anxebla
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:08 am

Hi again to everybody!!!

IB is fulling planes (sometimes with the A340-600) in the Peruvian market as there is just a few airlines serving Peru from/towards Europe non-stop

KL can try it ...why not?
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:30 am

i can indeed confirm that in the not to far future, BON will be eliminated on the KLM list... although the fuel prices are low, KL will save a lot on the direct flights since the amount of passengers traveling to BON is very low and actually all pax are flying to Sout america.

It will most probably change from 1 777 flight a day instead of the usual 2 x MD-11's.

the pax traveling to BON will be flown in either AUA or CUR so they can fly with the Island hoppers to BON...
 
hardiwv
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 7):
the pax traveling to BON will be flown in either AUA or CUR

So, would KL keep its direct service to AUA or CUR?

Another question: does UIO/GYE also have to chance to go nonstop B777/A330 and therefore drop the stop-over in the Dutch Caribbean?

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 7):
i can indeed confirm that in the not to far future, BON will be eliminated on the KLM list... although the fuel prices are low, KL will save a lot on the direct flights since the amount of passengers traveling to BON is very low and actually all pax are flying to Sout america.

Totally agree with you point. Those Dutch Caribbean stops should be handled by Martinair instead.

Btw, anyone has information how PNB nonstop is doing? Any possible upgrade/increase in service forseen? Flights are always full and average fares are very high.

Rgs,
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:40 am

I'm not in complete agreement with your statements that all pax go to LIM and only a few to BON. I handle KL741 a lot at the gate as Spanish is my language and that's always handy with the overbookings. Of course it's holiday season now which means more pax to BON than maybe during quiet times but like yesterday this flight was made up of a lot of BON pax. Oversale in Economy was 36 but it went out with 2 empty seats in the back.

Still, I'd love a non-stop flight to LIM, that might finally induce me to go. It's too long a trip for me now, as I suffer from back problems. I guess many people would be of the same opinion.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
hardiwv
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:48 am

Lamedianaranja, hola! Como estas?  Wink

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 9):
I'm not in complete agreement with your statements that all pax go to LIM and only a few to BON

It makes sense. I dont think KL would fly BON and AUA/CUR only because of "political" reasons. On the other hand, I think it would make sense for KL to fly to only one Dutch Caribbean Island and feed the others with regional service.

LIM and UIO/GYE deserves a dedicated nonstop flight. As you mentioned, with the stop-over the flight is really long. Imagine GYE/UIO which have TWO stops over!? In addition, as far as I know, only IB flies these routes from Europe.

Rgs,
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:58 am

I think LanEcuador also flies from MAD to GYE.
 
Checo77
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:59 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
think it would make sense for KL to fly to only one Dutch Caribbean Island and feed the others with regional service.


Very, very true.

I really makes sense for KLM to fly nonstop to LIM and Ecuador. And the 772/332 are a perfect combination to do it.
I hope we will see some new nonstop flighs.
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:47 am

So, would KL keep its direct service to AUA or CUR?

yes they will.... the demand for those 2 islands is rather good and its still growing... in the Summer AUA even receives its own full pax 747-400 service.... (now since they only have 4/5 full pax you can conclude that its a lot of pax) And , although its a beautiful island, BON isn't really big, and there isn't much to do on the island except for diving... so no big demand for BON..

I know there are talks for sending the 777 to AUA, without knowing if it will be a direct flight, and AUA-CUR flight, or a stop over flight for a south amerika route but i wouldnt be suprised to see a 777 on a 5x week service for only AUA, so KL will keep the flight to the island, even if CUR is only 15 min flying, rather than use Island hoppers... Because the demand is just to high for that strategy

than we have CUR, well think you already know the demand is very hight, therefore they are sending the 747's.... and even with ArkeFly comming to CUR, the payload will still be full, or at least filled up...

Btw, anyone has information how PNB nonstop is doing? Any possible upgrade/increase in service forseen? Flights are always full and average fares are very high.


i suppose you mean PBM? if so i can tell you the future of SLM isn't that bright... Sorry but can't tell to much , since its still being investigated and a good relativ of mine (won't say what kind of relative  Wink) and a lot of other people are still investigating some cases at SLM...
But the route alone is doing fine, and if SLM will be gone, there will be place for other airlines , wich are actually quite a lot wich wan't to fly to suriname...
 
A388
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:51 am

I agree on that. KLM should focus more on the AUA and CUR markets. I also thaught BON was too small for KLM to serve, especially two flight each day. The demand just isn't there, like it is in AUA and CUR. The AUA and CUR markets can support daily flights year-round because of increasing demand and a larger domestic market. With the new terminal under construction CUR becomes more attractive as feeder hub for KL to other Caribbean islands, like BON and SXM. A friend of mine said that KL is being handled by AF (ticketing) so it wouldn't surprise me if KLM would drop SXM as well, so AF can fully take-over this route like they did with the CCS route.

I guess time will tell what will eventually happen. I just hope KL will send its 777s to CUR in the future during low season or even the A332  Big grin

A388
 
globetrekker
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RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:39 am

One must remember that prior to the AMS-BON-LIM and AMS-BON-UIO/GYE flights, BON only had one or two 747 flights a week routed through CUR. On the rest of the days pax would connect in AUA or CUR with ALM Antillean to BON. Meaning not a lot of money was spent in BON on the flights as everything was mainly done in CUR.
So if they take away the flights it would indeed save a lot on cost.

I work for KLM's Regional Management department on the ABC islands (mainly AUA).

These are some of the costs involved by routing the LIM and UIO/GYE flights through BON:
  • Landing fees

  • Fueling fees

  • handling fees; ground handling, catering, cleaning etc.

  • hotel fees for crew; LIM crew stay in a different hotel than the UIO/GYE crew

  • fees for having local KLM representatives in BON and more.......

    AUA, BON and CUR at one point or another all had the LIM and UIO/GYE flights. When KLM announced it wanted to move to BON a bidding war started between the three islands on these "tail-end" flights. BON won, because it was the cheapest island to operate the flights through. This of course was before KLM had the 777. Of course KLM put down some conditions and a major one was a facility for transit pax, runway extension etc. Will that secure BON forever...no it won't. Money talks!

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
    So, would KL keep its direct service to AUA or CUR?

    Hi Hardi!
    KLM is happy with the direct services to AUA (KL733/734) and CUR (KL735/736). Capacity can be adjusted to AUA and CUR when necessary (MD11 or 744), depending on the seasons and sometimes combining AUA and CUR on one flight (KL781 or KL783). Extra flights are added during peak periods (carnival, summer vacation and X-mas) to comply with the extra demand. Up to this moment KLM is the only real dependable airline to operate between AMS and the Dutch Caribbean. ALM Antillean, Dutch Caribbean Airlines, Air Holland and DutchCaribbeanExel all turned out to be disasters leaving pax stranded or with useless tickets.
    It must be noted though that AUA, BON and CUR are low yield destinations. Make no mistake; the loads are very good on the flights, but this doesn't translate to high yield, such as Peru and Ecuador.

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
    Totally agree with you point. Those Dutch Caribbean stops should be handled by Martinair instead.

    MP served all three island as a charter service initially with MD11's and 767's. (flights handled and supervised by KLM on AUA, BON and CUR).
    Later they started a twice-weekly scheduled services from AUA with 767's as an add-on to the MIA flights. MP had their own Airport Management at AUA, but we did share the check-in staff (wearing both MP and KL uniform) and they made use of KLM's airport systems.
    They had full traffic rights between AUA and MIA and were marketing MIA as a MP destination from AUA.
    Loads were very poor and pax traveling from AUA to AMS didn't mind the flights as much, comparing to those flying AMS to AUA. This is because AUA has US Immigration and Customs pre-check and AMS did not. MP soon seized flying to AUA.

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
    Btw, anyone has information how PNB nonstop is doing? Any possible upgrade/increase in service foreseen? Flights are always full and average fares are very high.

    PBM is doing well for KLM (I don't know much about the PY side of things) BUT PBM was always a destination that did well as a matter of fact. As time goes by I will familiarize myself more with PBM as Surinam is now part of KLM Regional Management in CUR (after being a stand-alone station with its own Management) and therefore will be in my work-package.

    Quoting A388 (Reply 14):
    friend of mine said that KL is being handled by AF (ticketing) so it wouldn't surprise me if KLM would drop SXM as well, so AF can fully take-over this route like they did with the CCS route.

    AF did take-over the station SXM concerning business/sales/marketing activities. This will now be done by AF Area Management in Point-a-Pitre in Guadaloupe. It was announced early on, some staff was taken over by AF and it was celebrated by an AF flight to SXM with mixed crew of AF and KLM.

    KLM's flights to SXM however will not seize at this moment. They have actually just increased from twice to 3 times a week with continuing service to CUR (KL0785).

    As mentioned above the take-over of SXM by AF meant I would no longer have that station in my package, but I got PBM instead, so the workload will remain the same.

    Cheers!

    Globe Trekker
    The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
     
    hardiwv
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:54 pm

    GlobeTrekker:

    Thank you very much for the very interesting details and clarifications.

    Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 15):
    BUT PBM was always a destination that did well as a matter of fact.

    I suspected so.

    Rgs,
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:40 pm

    Thank you for the detailed information GlobeTrekker. As a native from Curaçao I find your additional insight/information always interesting to read. I will migrate back to CUR by the end of next month and will be flying KL again. My last trip to CUR this past month was great. I'm still looking for time to write a trip report. In a nutshell, the service was nice and the 744 flew nice too. Hats off for KLM Big grin

    A388
     
    globetrekker
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:41 pm

    No problem guys!

    Quoting A388 (Reply 17):
    I'm still looking for time to write a trip report. In a nutshell, the service was nice and the 744 flew nice too. Hats off for KLM

    Thankk you for choosing KLM. You should definitely write one! Looing forward to it and I hope you got great pics too!

    Globe Trekker
    The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
     
    mauriceb
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:49 pm

    Djeez guy's im jealous at you!!!!

    within a month youre both at the caribean islands!!! can't wait untill my next visit!!!!


    im also looking forward to youre trip report, it are my fav routes.. (ams-aua, ams-cur) since i flew them a lot!
     
    globetrekker
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:51 pm

    So Maurice,

    When and to where will your next trip to the ABC's be? I assume you travel IPB (non-revenue)?

    Globe Trekker
    The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
     
    lamedianaranja
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    NA B757 In AMS Today

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:38 am

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
    Lamedianaranja, hola! Como estas?

    Tudo bem,especially as we just watched Brazil beat Germany at soccer!Parabens!

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
    Btw, anyone has information how PMB nonstop is doing?

    Flights to PBM are once again fully booked until the end of the summer. Non-revving restricted to first line family because of these problems. The Antillean area hasn't had this restriction enforced (yet) but there is a current warning for KLM employees to be very careful before going to popular destinations as it might be difficult to come back on time. It's gonna be one hot summer, Globe Trekker!  Wink
    I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
     
    LJ
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:20 am

    Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 15):
    It must be noted though that AUA, BON and CUR are low yield destinations. Make no mistake; the loads are very good on the flights, but this doesn't translate to high yield,

    GlobeTrekker, isn't one of the reasons why AUA, CUR and BON are low yield because the lack of cargo and very seasonal flows on the route? I can recall KLM arguing that all Dutch Antilles flights (and PBM) have these problems and thus KLM isn't making as much money on these routes as many believe.

    Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 21):
    The Antillean area hasn't had this restriction enforced (yet) but there is a current warning for KLM employees to be very careful before going to popular destinations as it might be difficult to come back on time. It's gonna be one hot summer, Globe Trekker!

    Last year some went to CUR and couldn't come back in time. Fortunatly, they only had their IPB rights revoked for a couple of months and didn't loose their job.... In the old days the KLM staff could use the CCS detour but even this is becoming more difficult as the remaining airlines on the route have a pretty good load.
     
    globetrekker
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:05 am

    Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 21):
    The Antillean area hasn't had this restriction enforced (yet) but there is a current warning for KLM employees to be very careful before going to popular destinations as it might be difficult to come back on time. It's gonna be one hot summer, Globe Trekker!

    Indeed. Every summer its the same story. We end up with non-revvers begging for space that I cannot give them, non-revvers sleeping on airports, because they have no money for accomodations and worst of all the cryers at the desks!
    When we "gate the flight" and we start the onloading process of stanby pax we see all the eager expecting faces. Then you call their name one-by-one and when you make an announcement that the flight is closed off completely the disgusted looks and the snide remarks.... and worst of all the sound of people crying........
    But I'll have my seatbelt fastened for this bumpy ride, Lamedianaranja Smile!

    Quoting LJ (Reply 22):
    Last year some went to CUR and couldn't come back in time. Fortunatly, they only had their IPB rights revoked for a couple of months and didn't loose their job.... In the old days the KLM staff could use the CCS detour but even this is becoming more difficult as the remaining airlines on the route have a pretty good load.

    In the days we still had ALM Antillean and Air Aruba, KLM'ers made extensive use of their services to 'escape' to AUA, BON, CUR, CCS and ATL in the case of full/overbooked flights at a station. Now we see KLM staff having to purchase full-fare tickets (some are active a.net members on this forum Wink) on BonairExpress to travel between islands trying to find a way to get back home.

    I like to visit my parents who live in Holland during the summer, but I never IPB. Always a full-revenue ticket!

    Globe Trekker
    The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
     
    COSPN
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:33 am

    Sorry Un related...How is KL's AMS-MNL Flight going...I is near the CO gate at MNL Never seems very full ??? But is the only Non-Stop to Europe...PAL,BA,AF gave up on Europe-MNL, and LH Stops Enroute...
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:40 am

    As some of you have asked me to write a trip report on my last flight with KL, please read it in the Trip Reports forum. Click on the link below to open my trip report:

    http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/59767/

    Rgrds,

    A388
     
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    airkas1
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:06 am

    Bon Noche/Buenas Noches/Goedenavond!  Smile

    Very interesting thread. Thanks for giving me something to read on this late night (almost 3AM now).

    I would hate to see KLM dropping BON as a stop-over, but I can understand the reasons for doing so (financial etc.). I loved to watch all the MD-11's come in over my head and/or taking off. Gives you the SXM-effect. They also go really low over your head and last year I nearly got blown away at the fence when a MD-11 powered up for take-off. I was just in time with turning my body around so I wouldn't get hit with sand and rocks.  Cool

    So what will become of BON when KLM quits with the stop-overs there? How many times would it get served (with a MD-11 still I presume)?

    Quoting LJ (Reply 22):
    Now we see KLM staff having to purchase full-fare tickets (some are active a.net members on this forum ) on BonairExpress to travel between islands trying to find a way to get back home.

    Hmmm, BonairExel is not a bad way to travel IMHO. I flew them 4 times last year and got a jumpseat on 1 of those flights. How are they doing now btw? Who owns BonairExel now, since the Exel Aviation Group went bankrupt?

    I can't wait to go back again... But it will be summer 2006 (op z'n vroegst) for me.

    Kas
    Airliners.net Crew - Photo Screener
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:27 am

    Heey Kas,

    How's life. It's been a long time since I've seen your name pass through these forums. Anyway, to answer your question about what will become of BON, it wouldn't surprise me if KL will eventually drop BON all together and use BonairExpress/CuracaoExpress to as a feeder airline to BON. The market is just too small in BON to support KL traffic for BON only. I would guess that more then 70 percent of all passengers are transfer passengers to South America. It will be wise for KL to centralize all Dutch Caribbean traffic through AUA and CUR. AUA and CUR are two different markets functioning separately, so KL can continue flying to these two islands separately as their markets can support it all year round. BON passengers can be routed through CUR as CUR is closest to BON.

    P.S. It's late (03:27LT) I know  Wink

    A388 Big grin
     
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    airkas1
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:02 am

    Quoting A388 (Reply 27):
    How's life. It's been a long time since I've seen your name pass through these forums. Anyway, to answer your question about what will become of BON, it wouldn't surprise me if KL will eventually drop BON all together and use BonairExpress/CuracaoExpress to as a feeder airline to BON.

    Heey, life is great  Big grin I know, I haven't been active that much lately. I think I know the reason aswell (got a g/f since last week, since that I haven't been spending that much time on the computer.  cloudnine   Wink )
    How are you? I read you're moving to CUR again... Nice and sunny  sun 
    I'd like to move back to BON, but maybe I'll do my internship in my 4th year there (with operations for an airline or with the "havendienst"(dunno the English word) if that's possible.

    Anyway, to the subject:
    So if KLM drops BON, and BonairExel/CuracaoExel will perform feeder flight, would that also mean more flight between the islands and maybe even some more a/c as a result of that?

    Kas (Still not going to bed, need to upload a photo first  bigthumbsup  )
    Airliners.net Crew - Photo Screener
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:14 am

    Hahaha, I was uploading pictures like crazy when I went to the Paris Air Show but only one got accepted, of which I'm very thankful. It's my first A380 photo so I'm very happy about that.

    Anyway, to get back on topic. I don't know exactly what KL will do with BON but was only giving my speculation. I can imagine BON being dropped by KL and BonairExpress/CuracaoExpress serving as a feeder airline to KL for flights to BON. If this becomes a reality than more aircraft are most likely to be added at BonairExpress/CuracaoExpress. When I was in Curacao on vacation last month I spoke to some friends and they all told me that BonairExpress/CuracaoExpress really need more flights especially to AUA as demand is very high (people want to fly to AUA) but there are not enough aircraft. So more aircraft are definately needed if KL wants to use them as a feeder airline, I would think.

    Cheers,

    A388 Big grin
     
    globetrekker
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:34 am

    Well BonairExpress and CuracaoExpress will make use of an Surinam Airways MD-82 to fly between CUR and SXM three times a week. It may be the aircraft that will be parked in idle in AUA, while Miami Air carries out the AUA-MIA-AUA flight on behalf of PY, but I am not 100% sure. The flights as they are now are very unreliable and take too long and have therefore gotten many complaints.

    KLM and Dutch Antilles Express (BonairExpress/CuraçaoExpress): KLM wants a regional partner. But they want a good reliable one, with an impeccable reputation. We all know the fiasco of the Exel group and it left a bitter taste in KLM's mouth.

    I cannot discuss things in detail on a public forum due to confidentiality issues, but KLM has recently performed audits on 9H and let's just say that on some points KLM was far from satisfied. KLM keeps a close eye on 9H, due to the fact that they sell their tickets on KLM stock and people associate the two carriers with each other.

    KLM/9H for now have a lot going on behind the scenes that I cannot discuss here, but shoot me an e-mail me if you want some extra info.

    The biggest issue now are the prices between the Dutch islands! A ticket return ticket between AUA and CUR is almost 400,- florin!!!! Unbelievable!

    Globe Trekker
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    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:25 pm

    Wow, thanks for the insight GlobeTrekker. I have just added you on my respected users list. I always find your posts and threads interesting to read. I know that a lot of people are complaining about BonairExpress/CuracaoExpress. The friends I've spoken with also said the same thing. They couldn't go to AUA because the airline couldn't guarantee the returnflight. You should have seen me looking at my friends with big astonished eyes haha. I was like how can an airline do business like that. But anyway, I hope they will improve their services and that we will have a good connection between the ABC islands.

    By the way, enjoy your stay in Curaçao GlobeTrekker. Maybe we'll meet once I'm back on the island. Have fun!! Big grin

    A388
     
    mauriceb
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:50 pm

    guy's i love this thread!!! lol, but globe, to answer youre question, i will be in CUR/AUA in October and December (likely) and yes i will go IPB  Smile





    off-topic: isn't here some hate againts Dutch people now after that case with nathalie holloway?
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:00 pm

    Heey MauriceB,

    What's up. I don't think there is direct hate against dutch people there, because there were also other nationalities involved in the sad story of Nathalie Holloway. I am worried that Americans will now think twice before going to AUA on vacation. It sounds stupid, but sometimes people think that way. The Natalie Holloway case has been getting a lot of media attention in the U.S. Even Larry King reported on it and that's a nationwide broadcast. I really hope the tourism will not be affected dramatically in AUA and that the guilty ones will be caught and be sentenced as well. It's just sad....

    Anyway, let's not drift away from the topic. Does anyone by now have more info on KL's decision regarding BON or is there an ultimate decision date on it?

    A388
     
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    airkas1
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:19 pm

    Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 30):
    The biggest issue now are the prices between the Dutch islands! A ticket return ticket between AUA and CUR is almost 400,- florin!!!! Unbelievable!

    Ahhhh, there goes my chance of a cheap ticket to SXM  Yeah sure

    Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 30):
    The flights as they are now are very unreliable and take too long and have therefore gotten many complaints.

    Sounds a bit like (ALM/)DCA to me?

    Btw, we hijacked this thread I think, congratulations to all of you  Big grin  Wink

    Kas
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    GoAibusGo
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:29 pm

    Hello guys,

    It's me, the Exel 'basher'.

    Sorry, It's off-topic, but still..........

    I used to work for Air ALM/ DCA and BonairExel/Express (lots of slashing going on  bouncy  ), and man that Exel company was a really bad company to work for. I recently left that company (what a relief  relieved  ). This year alone (up until I left) 7 captains left, including the chief pilot, 3 CA/FAs (including myself), 1 operation Officer, 2 marketing department employees, 1 station-manager in CUR, the cabin crew/ground operation manager and the head of the finance-department. This is a lot for a small company with 3 ATR-42s ! And most of the other employees want to go as well, but cannot at the moment. Most of them are waiting for something to start up in either Curacao or Aruba.

    I worked there for 2 years and it was all bad (only the salary was good). I couldn't ever imagine an airline be this bad. I thought Air ALM/DCA was bad, but Exel was off the scale. It will be to much to mention ALL the things that happened.
    Well I hope I will finally get a chance to work for a better airline here in Holland (Martinair, KLM/cityhopper, Transavia or VLM).

    Well I wish my former colleagues all the best and hope for them that something better will start-up very soon on either Aruba or Curacao (or both !!!), so the can have a better future (hopefully)  airplane   praise  and that the party ends for the politician and that crazy gangster 'man of sand' - N.S, (I think most of you know who I mean). I couldn't hold on much longer. So KLM can also get a more reliable partner in the Caribbean.

    ! Note my flag changed from an Antillean to a Dutch flag. I exchanged the sun for the cold.
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:56 pm

    Heey GoAirbusGo,

    I was looking at your flag and also remembered seeing the Netherlands Antilles flag before. Welcome to Holland. I will have to change my flag from Dutch to the Antillean in about a month. I've been living here for 10 years and that's enough. I love the aviation in Holland, it's big, it's beautiful and it's very dynamic. I work for a cargo airline now but will go back to Curaçao. Even though the aviation is my passion and part of my life, I don't see myself living in Holland no longer. Life is very expensive and I don't see myself buying an appartment or house here, I just can't pay it. Life is too bussy here, you really only work to pay all your bills. The weather is also not the best out here. Now that my entire family will live in Curaçao I will also go, my parents are also getting older, so I'm also moving back because of my family.

    Other than this, Holland is great, you have all the privacy you want, unlike Curaçao, where privacy is something you won't really have because it's a small island. But in the end the relaxed life of the Caribbean is worth living there, it really is. I'm in a phase where I also want to enjoy life itself. So I'm looking forward to going back and out of the stressful life here.

    I will go back to Holland on vacation of course, Schiphol Airport still remains my hometown airport as well as other European airports, so you will see me go aircraft spotting in Europe in the future. That's one thing I will keep doing in Europe.... Big grin

    Bye the way, I don't know who the 'man of sand' is. Can you tell us more about that person?

    A388
     
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:41 pm

     Embarrassment  Embarrassment A388 doesnt know  Wink  Big grin

    I think he's talking about (Niek) Sandmann, owner (or former owner) of BonairExel. Am I right?

    Quoting GoAibusGo (Reply 35):
    I exchanged the sun for the cold.

    Errrr, dunno if you noticed it, but weather is around 30 degrees Celsius these days  Cool

    A388, are you going to work at Hato when you return to CUR or are you planning to get a non-av job?

    Kas
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    GoAibusGo
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:45 pm

    The man of sand is...Niek S., former businesspartner of Erik de V. and Harm P. of the late ExelAviationGroup.

    On my part also good luck in Curacao when you go back. Yeah, people told me all about the problems with Holland and the Euro when I told them I wanted to move to the Netherlands, but will stay positive and hopefully things will work out for me here.

    And if are a native of Curacao , like I am, I say: "Danki pa jamami welkom na Hulanda i pabo exito i hopi suerte pa bo bida nobo na Korsou" (Thank you for welcoming me to Holland and for you good luck and all the best for your new life in Curacao)

    And to avoid headaches, do fly KLM and not Arkefly to CUR !!
     
    surrenr
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:48 pm

    With all this KLM talk, I was wondering what are all their routes and what aircraft do they use to each city they serve. I can't find it anywhere on the internet.
     
    GoAibusGo
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:50 pm

    Quoting AirKas1 (Reply 37):
    Errrr, dunno if you noticed it, but weather is around 30 degrees Celsius these days

    Yes, it was quite warm indeed, but at least it is not the whole year like on the Antilles  wink 
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:00 pm

    By the way GoAirbusGo, looking at your nickname here on the forum I assume you're an Airbus fan, so here's my first photo of the A380 at the Paris Air Show and hope you'll enjoy it!!! I surely did... Big grin


    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Roger Cannegieter



    A388  bouncy 
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:10 pm

    Heye AirKas,

    As long as I can make a start with working it's fine by me. But yes, I will be looking for a job in the aviation sector and am working on it too. Eventually I hope to work in the aviation sector, no matter where it is.

    A388 Big grin
     
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:12 pm

    My dad just got off the phone with a guy from BON who is trying to build stuff on the land of kunuku Warahama (near the airport). My dad's kinda involved in that project I guess.

    He told me that there is a company who is planning to station a cruise ship on BON, for cruises to Venezuela. He also said that those people have their own "airline" to airlift people from/to BON. Does anyone know something about that?

    Also, he said that maybe CO is planning to fly to BON. I asked some more about it and he told me to look for it on the amigoe website, so I did.

    http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/article_12901.shtml

    Any additional info on this aswell?

    (Sucks that Air Jamaica is dropping BON aswell)

    Kas


    off topic:


    OMG!!!!!

    /off topic
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    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:13 pm

    And GoAirbusGo,

    Once your actually IN the cold, believe me, you WILL want to go back to warm sunny weather. The winter season can be nice to see, all the snow around you and stuff, but at the same time it really works on you, especially when it's very cold and raining at the same time. That's the weather I dislike the most, cold weather, combined with cold rain and cold winds, brrr.....  Smile

    A388
     
    GoAibusGo
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:55 pm

    Actually I sometimes like the cold. I lived here about 10 years ago, for 2 years, came here almost every year on vacantion since my birth and flew a couple times to AMS as a cabin attendant for Air ALM/DCA on Martinair (B767 + MD-11) and Sobelair (B767). And also did my training here for BonairExel at Air Exel (Maastricht) on the ATR-42 and the ERJ-145.

    A388, nice photos (also the ones you made from the CUR tower).


    On topic now:
    If KLM decides to go non-stop to LIM it will be a political and financial disaster for the island of Bonaire. With Air Jamaica also pulling out this year, things are not looking up for the airport of Bonaire.
    The runway was extended, a catering building was build, a fuel-farm and ship-dock was build, a new and bigger departure/transit hall was built and an extra apron was build. All this on the promise that KLM would use Bonaire as a stopping base enroute to and from Lima, Quito and Guayaquil for at least the next 10 years. The investment made by the island government would than be paid back by means of the extra income levied on landing charges for the KLM MD-11s coming 4 times daily between AMS and those South American destinations.
    Before all this, Bonaire (Flamingo) airport was closed at night. Now the airport is open 24 hours especially for the KLM flights, which use the airport in the nighttime hours.
    When KLM ordered the 777 there's been a lot of talk about these flights going non-stop. Personally for me it is not if, but when this will happen.
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:16 am

    So will KL be obliged to pay for 'damages' or 'loss of income' if they will abandon BON earlier than expected? The way GoAirbusGo explains it, the Government of BON paid a lot of money especially for KL's operations in and out of BON. What legal actions can BON take against KL if even possible? Did KL sign an agreement for a number of years to use the the airport of BON as a mini hub?

    A388
     
    GoAibusGo
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:23 am

    I don't think KLM has to pay anything if they decide to abandon the stops on Bonaire. It was the Bonaire government who did all these things so that KLM started using Bonaire as a stop instead of Curacao or Aruba. These flights existed for quit a while already, but went thru either Curacao (the Quito and Guayaquil ones) and Aruba (the Lima ones).

    So it's gamble the Bonaire Politicians took to get more activity at their airport (meaning more jobs and tax income), more destinations to Bonaire and making Bonaire more independent towards Curacao in the Netherlands Antilles.

    Bonaire lured KLM away from Aruba and Curacao (for the LIM, OIU and GYE flights) by offering the handling, fuel and other charges cheaper.
     
    A388
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:42 am

    Owww, just like I thaught. I know KL operated to UIO/GYE routes via CUR in the past and LIM via AUA, but LIM was also served via CUR in the past AFAIK, once a week IIRC. If KL really does decide to stop flying on BON that will be a devastation to the aviation sector in BON, JM will also stop flying to BON. There will not be much left after that sadly.

    A388
     
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    airkas1
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    RE: KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?

    Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:09 am

    Didn't American Eagle want to fill up a bit of the gap JM left? Increasing the frequencies?
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