qm001
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:27 pm

I am at wits end at the moment trying to understand how it is that KLM is managing daily to Stoop to new levels. It seems as though a once shining example of service delivery has fallen flat on its face.

In the past 12 weeks I have written no less than 6 letters of complaint to KLM. I have not only as a Platinum Elite received a reply to one letter, but a colleague who is not even a Member received a letter within 4 days saying that he would have to wait a minimum of 3 months for a reply due to the enormous amount of complaints being handled.

What is happening? Can anyone shed light on why they just nose dived. Personally I believe that its a 9-5 "I don't give a shit!" mentality couple with a lack of leadership and pride.

I have not flow KLM now for almost 2 weeks and have chosen, even with extra effort, to fly other Sky Team members, and still KLM have managed to screw up my travel plan, cause me endless stress, lose my luggage at AMS on two separate occasions and just generally harass me. They even have flat out LIED, just because it was time to go home.

There are just two many incidents to mention here, but perhaps some of you can share your experiences, good or bad, and maybe I am just one unlucky traveler!

Thanks and kind regards,

QM001 (167 Air Malawi)
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:36 pm

Isn't six complaint letters in twelve weeks a bit excessive on your part? Could the problem maybe be with you?
 
JCS
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:37 pm

Perhaps because it is 30 degrees Celsius in Holland right now; which makes flight attendants be lazy and the office-staff not willing to work any more?

Johannes
 
PapaNovember
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:07 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:44 pm

Quoting JCS (Reply 2):
30 degrees Celsius

Is that really cold, or really hot?
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm

That is really hot for Europe.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:48 pm

I think the pride went with the Air France merger. It has been downhill since.
 
sk601
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:28 pm

Just out of curiosity, what is (are) the main problem(s)??
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:31 pm

Was funny to see this post actually, because I have had a large number of complaints recently with KLM Cityhopper from the UK Regions to AMS. The main issue I have seen is the cancellation and overbooking of flights - a nasty mix. NWI being particualry badly affected of late.

Anyone in KLM any idea why this is?

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
qm001
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:34 pm

BOBNWA,

Coming from NWA, with which i am very happy after my Tokyo experience in March, thatw as unexpected. Before April, I had never complained in my life to an airline!

Ask the whole of Holland and I am sure that you will see the feeling is a general one.

How can an airline ever get better when you never say whats wrong. In the case of KLM, I would say that everybody wants to tell them whats wrong hence the customer services being overloaded.

Thanks and brgds,

Paulo
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
sk601
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:40 pm

7LBAC111,

Most of the UK - AMS flights are operated with F50/70 or F100 aircraft. Everyday there are a lot of cancellations ex AMS, and the majority are flights operated with those planes, they always have major technical problems; it is gonna be time that those Fokker planes are going to be replaced by a more reliable plane.
 
slider
Posts: 6812
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting QM001 (Thread starter):
In the past 12 weeks I have written no less than 6 letters of complaint to KLM.

This tells me a lot, no offense.

I can't speak to KL's level of service, their customer care department, how they handle or what they do with complaints, much less how the AF merger has affected them, but to fire off 6 letters you either have THE worst luck and have had disastrously bad experiences or you're a chronic pain in the ass complainer.
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:21 pm

I think the pride went with the Air France merger. It has been downhill since.



uwhhh KLM still handle's it as before the merger, and it still uses the same dutch people as before the merger...



and the majority are flights operated with those planes, they always have major technical problems; it is gonna be time that those Fokker planes are going to be replaced by a more reliable plane.


huh? they have an 98,7% reliability dispatch.... now thurst me, thats high.... no way KL will replace the F's anytime soon... they are actually adding some F-100 Ex-TAM's and will order F-70's when the production will come alive...

but to fire off 6 letters you either have THE worst luck and have had disastrously bad experiences or you're a chronic pain in the ass complainer.


well i go for the last one... If KL sees somebody is sending 6 complaints, they will most likely see this as spamming...
 
sk601
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:36 pm

Quoting MauriceB
"huh? They have an 98,7% reliability dispatch.... now thurst me, thats high.... no way KL will replace the F's anytime soon... they are actually adding some F-100 Ex-TAM's and will order F-70's when the production will come alive..."

Recently (if I'm not wrong it was tuesday June 7), KLM Cityhopper cancelled 12 flights in the timespan 06.00h - 10.00h, all flights operated by Fokker aircraft and all cancelled due to mx. And if the flights are not cancelled, than the flights are extremely delayed (up to many hours, for flights that last in average 1,5h). These Fokker planes REALLY have a mx issue, I think this 98,7% reliability dispatch is a foolish %, calculated by a KL manager who wants to get his target/bonus (and mislead topmanagement and customers)

[Edited 2005-06-23 16:36:55]
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:36 pm

MauriceB...

I have had big problems lately....

3 delays exceeding 5 hrs for mechanicals
2 cancellations

All within the last 4 months.

KLM really has started to have issues...

Combined with the "It is Not possible" line I am looking for alternative carriers.

I have written 2 complaints some over a month with no responses.

KLM has issues... This was NOT the case before Air France... And yes the pride is gone with many of the KLM front line staff.
 
JrMafia90
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:36 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:10 am

I didn't realize KLM had problems like this. I thought they were doing so good.
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

NA B757 In AMS Today

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting QM001 (Reply 8):
I had never complained in my life to an airline!

You do seem to enjoy KLM bashing on a.net though. You're forever complaining about some KLM issue. Is it attention grabbing by posting this or is it something else?

Quoting QM001 (Reply 8):
Ask the whole of Holland and I am sure that you will see the feeling is a general one

It is very easy to condemn an airline in general and all its employees based on your experience. BTW, 85% of KLM's customers are non-Dutch. The whole world lovers to fly KLM! Just ask them.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
hotje
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:39 am

eeeehm, people, don't you realise you fly with a European based company and claim your 400 Euro compensation money when overbooked or delayed for more than 2 hours (don't know the exact figure). 400 Euro cash and no vouchers or anything.

They must comply under European law and if they don't just plain sew them. That will certainly teach KLM to be more conservative on their overbooking policy, which is horendous.

BTW Maurice, all company E-mail from KLM are killed by my spam filter. Not that I set it up that way, it just does that naturally.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 11):
and will order F-70's when the production will come alive...

 rotfl 
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:54 am

My only experience on a KL flight was in 2001 on a MEM-AMS-LIS flight. I would tend to agree with the opinions of the above...the pride went out the window with the AF merger.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Morvious
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:36 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting QM001 (Thread starter):
There are just two many incidents to mention here

Thats where this board is for you know.. Let us hear all of your complaints.
Now, we know nothing and have to reply to what?

Quoting SK601 (Reply 9):
it is gonna be time that those Fokker planes are going to be replaced by a more reliable plane

Not in a million years.. The F50 are going, but the F70's and 100's are staying for shure.

I fly more with charters then with scheduled flights. But the times I flew with them were great. Maybe you are just spoiled and used to something "better".

KLM is just not one of the best, and we all know that.
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting Morvious (Reply 19):
KLM is just not one of the best, and we all know that.

And is not one of the worst, and we know that...

KLM is a pretty average airline, nothing more, nothing less.

Rgs,
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:46 am

Without bashing KLM, I had the worst expierence in my "aviation-life" with KLM. On the other hand I had also great expierence.

Hard to say, if their pride has gone with the AF-merger.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 20):
KLM is a pretty average airline, nothing more, nothing less.

Rather they have become an average airline, which is sad.
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 12):
Recently (if I'm not wrong it was tuesday June 7), KLM Cityhopper cancelled 12 flights in the timespan 06.00h - 10.00h, all flights operated by Fokker aircraft and all cancelled due to mx. And if the flights are not cancelled, than the flights are extremely delayed (up to many hours, for flights that last in average 1,5h). These Fokker planes REALLY have a mx issue, I think this 98,7% reliability dispatch is a foolish %, calculated by a KL manager who wants to get his target/bonus (and mislead topmanagement and customers)

The Fokkers are doing very well, it is not for no reason KLM wants more of them.
There is a problem though albeit not related to the aircraft but more to the KLM maintenance which is being restructured at the moment.
In the past all maintenance on the F70 was done by Martinair and the F50/F100 by KL/UK.
Now all maintenance of F70/100 is being moved to Martinair which means that there workload is doubled in just a few months time.
As far as I can see it they are a bit struggling to keep up but I am sure they will get there.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 3):
Is that really cold, or really hot?

Thats around 86 degrees F. here which is kinda warm for the maritime climate of EHAM.
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
Floris
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:15 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:05 am

If I were KLM, I wouldn't take anybody seriously that wrote 6 letters of complaint in 12 weeks. There are always going to be people around there that can not be satisfied, no matter what. I am Platinum Elite in Flying Blue myself, and fly over 250.000 miles a year on KLM. Service levels are consistent and far above average. Obviously if you fly a lot, you sometimes bump into problems like a delay, luggage that misses a connection, etc. But that happens at every airline. I once experienced a 23 hour delay with SQ, that doesn't make them a bad airline either.

In short: chill out!

Floris

P.S. Where does anybody find the time to write 6 letters of complaint in 12 weeks anyway?
 
schipholjfk
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:11 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 1):
Isn't six complaint letters in twelve weeks a bit excessive on your part? Could the problem maybe be with you?

Why? Where does it say you are limited to a certain number of complaints especially when you are a paying customer. To some degree I agree with this gentleman. I am also a Platinum Elite and continuously fly KLM in Business Class. I must say that in my years of flying with KLM, I have never received a response... twice I have FedExed letters directly to the CEO of KLM with no response. On the other hand, the CEOs of Northwest Airlines always responsed to my inquiries whether it was regarding outstanding service or minor complaints. And I have heard similar stories regarding KLM's lack of customer service from other fellow travelers. While I still like KLM and continue to use them, there is no doubt that over the last 10 years the service level at KLM has definitely declined. Until KLM accepts that fact and start to fix various service related problems, it will continue to be an average airline which it is today. Of course it is better than lots of airlines in the world, but does KLM want to be better than a lot of airline in the world or be in the top category with airlines like SQ, Malaysia, Cathay Pacific, etc. The question is are they comfortable to be a little better than everyone else or will they once again be ambitious and strive to be one of the best? Anyone can be above average in any endeavor in life... but to be one of the best it takes a different mentality and extra drive! And in my opinion, currently KLM is lacking that extra drive.

[Edited 2005-06-23 20:27:01]

[Edited 2005-06-23 20:29:54]
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:24 am

Quoting Floris (Reply 24):
fly over 250.000 miles a year on KLM. Service levels are consistent and far above average

A.U.B. Floris, cut the  liar 

consistent and above average???? I fly a lot with KL/AF and neither of them is consistent and certainly not above average for KL: this is an old dutch legend and excuse for people over here to go against the merger a while ago  down 
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
schipholjfk
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:11 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:28 am

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 26):
Quoting Floris (Reply 24):
fly over 250.000 miles a year on KLM. Service levels are consistent and far above average

A.U.B. Floris, cut the

Oh you are so right... this was my feeling when I read this. You basically have to be flying everyday to make 250,000 miles a year on any airline (not counting 150% bonus reward and all that fancy frequent flyer benefits)! Full of it!
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting JCS (Reply 2):
Perhaps because it is 30 degrees Celsius in Holland right now

Lucky you! In TUS we are about 41 degrees Celsius!  hot 
I love ASO!
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:27 am

I didn't realize KLM had problems like this. I thought they were doing so good.


they are doing good...

and with all my respect towards the KLM bashers, but what does AF has to do with all the problems youre naming on this topic?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Quoting MauriceB (Reply 11):
and will order F-70's when the production will come alive...


thats why i said WHEN  Wink im not either on of the people wich are very posetive on this project... but just saying when it will be produced, KLM will in in the front line
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 25):
Until KLM accepts that fact and start to fix various service related problems, it will continue to be an average airline which it is today.

I am also FB Platimum and consider KLM an average airline, as you pointed out above, and I completely agree. Why I fly KLM? Because of AMS, which gives KL an extra edge. But KL certainly needs to work its customer service and drive towards becoming a top airline and not just "another airline".

Rgs,
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1046
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting Hotje (Reply 16):
people, don't you realise you fly with a European based company and claim your 400 Euro compensation money when overbooked or delayed for more than 2 hours (don't know the exact figure). 400 Euro cash and no vouchers or anything.

They must comply under European law and if they don't just plain sew them. That will certainly teach KLM to be more conservative on their overbooking policy, which is horendous.

That my friend is theory. Now let me tell you about the reality..... My boss was scheduled to fly CGN-AMS-BHX three weeks ago. The CGN-AMS flight was cancelled. KLM OFFERED to re-route via DUS however, the DUS flight arrived AFTER the BHX flight would have departed. So, according to EU regulations when an airline cancels a flight up to 750km or so the pax is entiteld to EUR250 compensation and a full refund of the ticket. Well, we wrote to KLM`s complaint department (via email) and received an answer within 4 days.

THe CGN-AMS flight was cancelled due to "saftey concerns with the scheduled aircraft". They will refund the full price of the CGN-AMS-BHX ticket but will not pay the EUR250,--. They said no compensation was entitled because they OFFERED to re-route my boss via DUS. They quoted some paragraph from the EU regs and more or less washed their hands of the whole matter.

To write to an airline so many times is a bit over the top as some have stated; on the other hand, they still never answered his first letter. So I would say yes, the guy is entitled to be ticked off.

P.S. the refund for the ticket still hasn't arrived yet....  Angry
A330 man.
 
Checo77
Posts: 1263
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:39 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:51 am

KLM is one of the best airlines out there, saving their true identity. Don´t judge just because of one incident. AND, if you don´t like KLM, don´t fly it, and leave the space for someone who really wants to fly this great airline. (Like me, tomorrow, PRG-ATL via AMS).
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
MH017
Posts: 1473
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:17 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:11 am

KLM cityhopper never compromizes on safety, so if there is a maintenance-snag which cannot be fixed within a reasonable time, the flights scheduled on this given aircraft (whether a F50, -70 or -100) is scheduled on a spare aircraft, or if not available anymore, the flights have, unfortunately, to be cancelled.

F50's were maintained by KLM-UK E&M, and have recently been moved to Nayak, due to bad performances of the former.

F70's were always maintained by Martinair, and will continue to be so: due to their excellent performance, it was decided that the F100 maintainance will also move to Martinair, on a 1-to-1 basis (1st F100 to move there was PH-LMV), this also to the disappointing performance of KLM-UK E&M. So, they're not maintained by Martinair as yet, but will move shortly as from July 1st, giving Martinair ample time to adjust their maintenance schedules and manpower.
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
Morvious
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:36 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 20):
Quoting Morvious (Reply 19):
KLM is just not one of the best, and we all know that.

And is not one of the worst, and we know that...

KLM is a pretty average airline, nothing more, nothing less.

Rgs,

Yeah exactly..
(I also tried to say that, I guess i was to quick with the "post the message" thingy  Wink)

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 5):
I think the pride went with the Air France merger. It has been downhill since

KLM didn't loose its pride.. We dutch people did. we lost our blue to france  Sad (not that I dislike french)
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1046
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting MH017 (Reply 33):
KLM cityhopper never compromizes on safety, so if there is a maintenance-snag which cannot be fixed within a reasonable time, the flights scheduled on this given aircraft (whether a F50, -70 or -100) is scheduled on a spare aircraft, or if not available anymore, the flights have, unfortunately, to be cancelled.

I appreciate KL's high regard for safety and maintenance of their aircraft. If they feel an aircraft can't be operated without compromising safety then heck yeah! cancel the flight. However, they still have a commitment to abide by EU laws. Also, when a flight is cancelled due to aircraft safety it isn't the fault of the pasenger either and compensation should be paid.

The thread's starter seems to have issues with KL's customer service, not their safety.
A330 man.
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:39 am

This bickering reminds me of sports fans. "My team's better than yours!"
 
TGV
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 18):
My only experience on a KL flight was in 2001 on a MEM-AMS-LIS flight. I would tend to agree with the opinions of the above...the pride went out the window with the AF merger.

I have personally no opinion on KLM now, since I stopped flying them some years ago due to totally uneatable food in long-haul eco (and that was time before the AF merger or the general degradation in service following 9/11).  vomit 

But I am surprised you can have a so strong opinion of the changes having occurred when you have flown them only once ! How compare two situations with only one point of measure ?  Confused
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans
 
qm001
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:05 am

Just as a point of information for all those who now believe that I am a KLM basher. I will categorically deny this. I love KLM and will defend them until the end on issues that I would consider are justified. There are some issues however that simply cannot be accepted, and when this happens, and note that before 18 April, I had never written a letter of complaint to KLM or AF, you need to make it known that you are unhappy.

I have been on a worldwide sales tour since 15 May, and have traveled probably close to 50 flight segments in this time, in some cases three short hauls a day just to try and catch meetings. In this time, I have had 4 flights delayed more than 3 hours, causing me to miss connections meetings and have to overnight in Amsterdam. They have managed to lose my bags 4 times on point to point flights, but oddly, never on a connection. They have destroyed, AND I MEAN DESTROYED, two separate pieces of baggage on two separate flights and to date with all these incidents bar one, not once were KLM staff able to assist me in any way. Nothing was ever possible, and there was no ways that anyone could do anything, basically it was now my problem. I have been lied to, and crooked just to add to matters.

To put it mildly I am pissed off and very disappointed. If a passenger travels a few times a year and something happens like a delay or cancellation, you could understand that. Even when you are a very regular flyer you can appreciate that nothing ever works like clockwork, but at least then try to assist the passengers, especially your supposed valued ones, in anyway possible. Try to sympathize with them and make them feel better, don't just turn them away.

If all this means I am a difficult pain in the ass, then so be it, but that is my right.

I hope you all understand.

Thanks and brgds,

QM001 (167 Air Malawi)
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:19 am

Quoting MH017 (Reply 33):
F70's were always maintained by Martinair, and will continue to be so: due to their excellent performance, it was decided that the F100 maintainance will also move to Martinair, on a 1-to-1 basis (1st F100 to move there was PH-LMV), this also to the disappointing performance of KLM-UK E&M. So, they're not maintained by Martinair as yet, but will move shortly as from July 1st, giving Martinair ample time to adjust their maintenance schedules and manpower.

The process is almost completed MH017, spoke someone from KL/UK just today and they have just 3 F100 left.
By the end of July all F100 will have been transferred to Martinair.
It seems someone felt the need to speed up things as the original schedule was the transfer the last F100 by November to Martinair, I think you still refer to this old schedule.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:21 am

I too have taken a lengthy delay on the KLM Cityhopper portion of my DFW-MEM-AMS-FRA routing back in September. I took this routing so I could fly on the Bae-146, DC-10 and F70, but after being on the ground for 4 extra hours in AMS, I ended up wishing I could have just taken the ICE train to my final destination, Koln, as it would have been much faster. But my whole itenerary would have been canceled if I would not have taken that particular flight.

Oh well at least I got on the 300 km/h train from FRA to Koln Hbf, which only took barely over one hour. Oh and I actually got a meal service on the F70. Although I now hate the F70 as it is horribly cramped for a 6'7" (2,00 meter) person like myself.

On the way back, I flew FTA-DTW-DFW on the A333 and A319 of NW, that was much faster.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
patroni
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 1999 7:49 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:28 am

Until 2001 I have been a very frequent customer on KLM. Based on my personal experiences regarding consistently good service and excellent support in case of cancellations/delays/ baggage issues etc. I saw them as one of the best European airlines, only matched by Swissair. Also had great flights on LH and BA, but especially the latter just left you alone when LHR was closed due to fog ("no options, sir") or the baggage was missing ("Sorry, we cannot give you an overnight kit, as the bag was forgotten in LHR due to bad weather") and so on. At KLM the staff always took initiative to care for their passengers.

Anyway, due to my relocation and new job I did not have many opportunities to fly KLM since then. However the few flights I made in 2004 and 2005 were not even a shadow of the service I was used from the "good old times":

E.g. LUX-AMS-BRE: While waiting in AMS, KL cancelled the connection to BRE due tolack of crew. They offered a bus transfer (it is just 5 hours by bus....). After a longer discussion they agreed to put me on the later flight. Sorry, I think it is not acceptable to cash in 400 EUR for a flight and offer a bus service instead.

One thing is still there though: The KLM employees that I met were all very friendly and did their job with a smile. Quite a difference to some grumpy people at LG or LH I came across....
 
cxsjr
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:44 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:30 am

I have travelled KLM on a number of occasions, as well as Air France. I can only say that all my flights have been at least average and at best, excellent.

If you think that KLM have bad attitude, then try Iberia! Now there's an airline whos service really stinks!!!! Only there will you experience some real "couldn't give a sh*t" attitude. I was phoning for the umpteenth time to ask why, after 13 weeks, I still didn't have my compensation for lost luggage, only to be told after 3 or 4 minutes on the phone that they didn't have time to deal with my call as they had other calls to deal with an promptly rang off.

Whilst I got back about 75% of what I paid out to replace the items lost, to this day (6 months on), I never received more than a 3 line letter in response to the countless critisisms and queries I raised with them.

I have to say, I would have think twice (at the very least!) about setting foot on a plane operated by IB ever again, EVEN if they started operating the B727 again!!!

 mad 
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:49 am

FYI, As I found from an 18 hour delay they do not need to pay the compensation only provide hotel, meal and a phone call. They did it and I had no access to baggage to top it off.

They then lost my bag for 5 days and when it came the handle was ripped off.
 
LX23
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:54 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 20):
KLM is a pretty average airline, nothing more, nothing less

Once again Hardi, your post is pretty much on the dot!  Smile

I've flown KL various times in the past 18 years, and have always found that their best selling point was AMS, truly one of the world's better airports for transfer pax. However, from about 1996 onwards, I have noticed a continuous decline in both passenger service and general customer care.

Moreover, their record regarding my luggage is...well... not the best, to be kind. Out of the past 6 flights with them, my luggage has been delayed or "misplaced" on the wrong flight 4 times - one of the more humorous incidents was my bag doing GRU-AMS-BKK, while I was doing GRU-AMS-GVA!:D (I guess it's better to laugh than cry  Wink)

The merger with AF has had nothing to do with KL's declining standards, and anyone blaming this on the merger is probably just a blind ultra-nationalist that cannot see past the fact that AF can bring a service culture to KL that KL lost a long time ago, and that this merger beneffitted both parties. (I'm wondering if they will also blame their headaches, broken nails, etc. on the AF-KL merger? Big grin)

Frankly, these days, I try to book with AF, CO, or DL, rather than go through KL precisely because of their lack of customer-service awareness...

KLM: Not the best, not the worst...just what we're stuck with

Quoting Cxsjr (Reply 42):
you think that KLM have bad attitude, then try Iberia! Now there's an airline whos service really stinks!!!! Only there will you experience some real "couldn't give a sh*t" attitude. I was phoning for the umpteenth time to ask why, after 13 weeks, I still didn't have my compensation for lost luggage, only to be told after 3 or 4 minutes on the phone that they didn't have time to deal with my call as they had other calls to deal with an promptly rang off.

What route did you fly? What you describe sounds like you've had a typical IB flight to Latin America...They're usually WAY better (I cannot stress how much better! honestly!) on Intra-European flights than they are on Spain-LatAm flights...
 
cxsjr
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:44 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting LX23 (Reply 44):
What route did you fly? What you describe sounds like you've had a typical IB flight to Latin America...

Hi LX23, in fact you couldn't be more wrong. This was an LHR-BCN flight. Should've been a MAN-BCN flight but they cancelled that weeks before when they pulled out of MAN for the winter. I had to contact them to find out how they proposed to get us to BCN as I heard they'd cancelled but we were never contacted by IB. When I called to check, they denied this was the case, even when it wasn't on any website as scheduled!

So we end up flying a day early (as we were to fly Xmas day), via LHR, didn't get seats together (4 of us) as none of us had the same surname, lost one bag (mine!), got absolutely no advice about what I was entitled to spend to replace the items etc etc. So spent the afternoon of Xmas Eve shopping for 3 days worth of clothes. They found the bag on Xmas day, in London, promised to send it to BCN the following day but didn't manage to get it there until ..... the day after I'd come back to Manchester!!! When I did get it back, it was wrecked and some of the contents missing.

On top of that, we had to pay for an extra nights hotel because we'd travelled a day earlier than previously expected. The rest you know from previous post.

So I stand firm, IB can hang it at far as I'm concerned!!  gnasher 
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
Wingspan
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:26 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:28 pm

Please, for the sake of all involved, find a way to phrase your post that does not waste our time. You do not comprise any large part of KLM revenues or concern of their product(s). Again, be courteous, and post it with something referencing your particular concern.

Regards,

Wingspan
Over the years, I've found that common sense is not that common.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:47 pm

I've flown KLM many, many times (both long & short haul, biz and econo classes) over the last several years and have never had reason to complain. My last flight in April from FRA-AMS-YVR was one of the best flights I've ever had, which is more then I can say for the NW flight 2 weeks before from YVR-SEA-DTW-FRA. In fact, 3 days after I got home, KLM sent me an email thanking me for choosing their airline.

Everyone has their favorite airlines, and I'm pretty sure that all of us has had good and bad experiences on different carriers. Bottom line is the consistency of service. If you've had poor service on a regular basis, then choose a different carrier. It's your right to do so.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
AMSGOT
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:37 pm

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:24 pm

You know what, QM001? You should become a Dutchman, like me! Our biggest spare time activity is complaining! I would like to note though, since I'm an expert, don't complain too much. There will be no-one left who's going to take you seriously anymore!
Please remain seated!
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:01 pm

Hi guys!

Everybody can have a bad day, including KLM and other very good airlines like BA, SWISS, LH, Singapore, Thai, Emirates.......
But seriously I don't think KLM is that bad, I really consider them a very decent and sharp airline. I flew last May with them LIS/AMS/KIX/AMS/LIS and I was absolutely delighted, great crew ( I'm really a big fan of dutch people and now even more because my team BENFICA have Ronald Koeman has coach!!! ), great service, great airliners and ABOVE ALL always on time..... yes, you might not believe but my 4 KLM flights left ON TIME so can I complain? Of course not, KLM is on the right path!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!

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