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PanAm_DC10
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Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:10 pm

I posted a few of these topics last year and with the recent additions to the 777 Order book after the Paris Airshow I thought I would post a few questions as to how Boeing's Order's for the 777 Series will look at going into year end. As of June 15th the Boeing Website listed the following firm orders, which were;

4 x 773ER Air France
5 x 772F Air France
4 x 773ER ANA
6 x 773ER ILFC
2 x 772ER ILFC

1 x 772ER Cancellation for UA

There are still 4* "open" orders to be booked. These consist of Air India 5 x 772LR and 10 x 773ER, Jet Airways 6 x 772LR and 4 x 773ER. The other is Qatar for "up to" 20 with an exact breakdown of Firm and Options to be announced. The other 1 is Biman for 4 772ER.
*TAAG have announced an interest in 2-3 772ER but I've not heard anything for a while so I am treating with caution.

If I assume 10 firm for QR and Boeing can close these deals by year end the 777 Series will have had it's best sales year since 2000 after booking 42 firm in 2004. Now a question or two if I may.

ILFC only order if they have a binding commitment to place the frames and their order announced at Paris was booked that week. That leads me to ask;

Who are the 6 x 773ER and 2 x 772ER most likely for? I rule out Air Sahara for the 2 772ER as they announced October 2005 delivery for their requirement and I doubt ILFC have the slots free to deilver "New Build" within that time frame. Perhaps these are for TAAG? That leaves 6 773ER, any ideas who these are for?

Next question is who will likely order the 777 before year end? As pointed out by a recent posting by DaleCary Etihad almost appear certain to order the 772LR and/or 772F. Emirates are continually spoken of and indeed speak of the 772LR/F in favourable terms, however, they have 9 valuable 773ER Options too, any chance we see them exercise these? Or can they convert those options to the 772LR/F?

Lybian Arab had also expressed an interest in the 777 series. Yet I've heard nothing for quite some time. Despite a thawing in trade links the only order from Lybia has been Buraq's 738s announced early this year.

Other campaigns spoken of include CX and QF though they've been widely discussed in other threads. Those threads and others also cover quite well the Technical merits of the 777 Series and A340 Series. I apologise for not mentioning Airbus but my post is aimed at 777 orders for 2005 only. For those who wish to see accurate year to date sales of all models for both Airbus and Boeing I suggest This thread by Hamlet69

I have also ommitted the most obvious. Air Canada's 777 order and respective cancellation. Why? It wasn't booked firm on Boeing's site thus there is no firm cancellation to book either, even though both were announced. Besides, the topic is very well covered in This thread by Avek00

Anyway, I had a few questions about 777 orders and would appreciate any clarifications, corrections or updates or discussion from anyone who may be able to assist.

Thanks and Regards

PANAM_DC10

[Edited 2005-06-23 15:12:06]
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Bohlman
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Thread starter):
The other is Qatar for "up to" 20 with an exact breakdown of Firm and Options to be announced.

I'm pretty sure the Qatar announcement was phrased as "at LEAST 20".
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Thread starter):
I have also ommitted the most obvious. Air Canada's 777 order and respective cancellation. Why? It wasn't booked firm on Boeing's site thus there is no firm cancellation to book either, even though both were announced.

We'll probably see a firm order by the end of the year assuming AC and ACPA (AC Pilots Association) can come to an agreement and realize the importance of the 777 and the 787 to AC's future.
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:43 am

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 1):
I'm pretty sure the Qatar announcement was phrased as "at LEAST 20".

Thank you for the clarification.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 2):
We'll probably see a firm order by the end of the year assuming AC and ACPA (AC Pilots Association) can come to an agreement and realize the importance of the 777 and the 787 to AC's future.

If this is indeed the case and the QR order is for "at least 20" and all Pending orders were firmed before year end then there is every chance the 777 could sell almost 100 frames, the likes of which we haven't seen since 2000. Has there been any further news from Boeing on any planned Production increase for the 777 series?

Also with the 772F launched are we likely to see any of the major Cargo operators order the model?

Regards
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intothinair
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:00 am

My GUESS is that the orders will be close like this by the end of the year:
4X 773ER AF
5X772LRF AF
4X773ER ANA
6X773ER ILFC
2X772ER ILFC
5X772LR AI
15X773ER AI
6X772LR Jet Airways
4X773ER Jet Airways
12X773ER QR firm (+5 extra options)
8X772LR QR firm (+5 extra options)
4X772ER Biman
?X772LR Etihad
?X772LRF Etihad
9X773ER Emirates
?(10)X772LR Emirates
CX??????
QF??????
HOPEFULLY
18X77? AC

I'm sure there will be quite a few more smaller orders this year, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 777 gets over 100 firm orders this year, and let's hope that the AC 777 deal will still go through.

Cheers, Konstantin G.
 
Fyano773
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:49 am

Hopefully, AeroMéxico will be leasing (ILFC) or purchasing more 777s.

Its current 6 767's leases will expire in the next couple of years (3 during 2006 + 3 in 2007)...

So, AM has to place an order this or the coming year in order to lock delivery slots. For sure Ghost77 has more details...

Regards.

Fyano
 
dalecary
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:04 am

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Thread starter):
Next question is who will likely order the 777 before year end? As pointed out by a recent posting by DaleCary Etihad almost appear certain to order the 772LR and/or 772F. Emirates are continually spoken of and indeed speak of the 772LR/F in favourable terms, however, they have 9 valuable 773ER Options too, any chance we see them exercise these? Or can they convert those options to the 772LR/F?

Mmmm, my thread got deleted for apparent possible copyright breaches, even though I acknowledged the source. So, yes Etihad looks very likely but I'm not going to bother posting the article again. Look up www.gulfnews.com and go to the business section.
I expect the EK order will be a mega-order for 772LR/LRF and 773ER, so the 9 773ER options will be exercised.
Let's not forget SQ. They are assessing the 772LR/LRF at the moment and will not be taking any more A345s. I think they could be quite likely to order this year.
Other Gulf carriers may also be interested(GF), as might be MH, but that is my pure speculation.
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 4):
QF??????

 no 
Qantas Changes Focus Away From 773/A346 (by NA Jun 23 2005 in Civil Aviation)
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jacobin777
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:51 am

FlyAUA....if Boeing can PROVE to QF that the 777-20LR can fly LHR-SYD with good payload, the certainly will be picking up a bunch............


"At the same time, Boeing is promising even greater performance from its 777-200LR. New endurance/payload records are to be attempted in October by Boeing.

The company also announced at the Paris air show last week that the 2 per cent fuel burn improvement achieved on the 777-300ER had shown up on the 777-200LR, giving the aircraft the grunt required to perform London-Sydney with an economic payload. But Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon isn't quite convinced. "Boeing is going to have to prove to us the capabilities of the 777-200LR," he told The Australian. Up to the challenge, Boeing is planning some spectacular, record-breaking test flights later this year. "

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au.../0,5744,15709638%255E23349,00.html
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:00 am

Air New Zealand has some 777-200 coming to this year too
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:05 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
FlyAUA....if Boeing can PROVE to QF that the 777-20LR can fly LHR-SYD with good payload, the certainly will be picking up a bunch............

Qatas said they are now steering away from 777s and 340s, so I believe it when they say it themselves. Boeing can say all they want about the aircraft. If Qantas is not in the shopping mood for that type of route, then they won't by any regardless of what me, you, or anybody else on here thinks.
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 6):
I expect the EK order will be a mega-order for 772LR/LRF and 773ER, so the 9 773ER options will be exercised.
Let's not forget SQ

Thanks Dale. If I may ask, what do you define as an EK mega-order? 15 frames in addition to the 9 773ER options being exercised? Also we shouldn't forget that SQ converted 1 outstanding 772 order to a 773ER to take their total to 19 firm for that model. As for GF, Mr Hogan downplayed the size of their order, I assume due to the aggressive plans of EK, EY & QR though I agree they may well be in the market for up to 10 777s. That said, IIRC, he was in Paris last week with a delegation. So we could hear somthing soon.

Quoting Eoinnz (Reply 9):
Air New Zealand has some 777-200 coming to this year too

Thank you Eoinnz. Are you referring to AirNZ's deliveries of the initial order announced last year? Or, is there talk that AirNZ may exercise some Purchase Rights as an add-on order?

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 5):
Hopefully, AeroMéxico will be leasing (ILFC) or purchasing more 777s

Perhaps my assumption that the 2 772ER ordered by ILFC being for TAAG could be wrong and these may well be further frames for AM. It'll be interesting to see Boeing's update at month end to see what Engines the 772ERs have been ordered with.

Thanks for the answers to date but I'm still left asking for clues as to who the 6 773ER ordered by ILFC will be for.

Regards
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:47 pm

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 10):
Qatas said they are now steering away from 777s and 340s, so I believe it when they say it themselves. Boeing can say all they want about the aircraft. If Qantas is not in the shopping mood for that type of route, then they won't by any regardless of what me, you, or anybody else on here thinks.

respectfully disagree

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2181636

""Qantas is currently evaluating the 777 and 787 against the A340 and A350. A decision is probably three to four months off, said Geoff Dixon, chief executive of Qantas.

A person who knows Dixon well and is familiar with how the evaluation is going said Qantas "loves" the 777.

Dixon, in the interview, said Qantas will consider the 777-200LR as part of any possible 777 order, but it wants proof the plane will do what Boeing claims � fly non-stop from London to Sydney with a full load of passengers.

"Our people at this stage are not confident that the plane can meet the specifications that Boeing indicates," Dixon said.""

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pb...?AID=/20050620/NEWS/506200313/1011
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dalecary
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:01 pm

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 11):
Thanks Dale. If I may ask, what do you define as an EK mega-order? 15 frames in addition to the 9 773ER options being exercised? Also we shouldn't forget that SQ converted 1 outstanding 772 order to a 773ER to take their total to 19 firm for that model. As for GF, Mr Hogan downplayed the size of their order, I assume due to the aggressive plans of EK, EY & QR though I agree they may well be in the market for up to 10 777s. That said, IIRC, he was in Paris last week with a delegation. So we could hear somthing soon.

No worries mate. I would term 30+ as a mega order for EK. If they exercise their 9 773ER options and replace their 18 346HGWs orders and 8 345s(2 will never be received by EK) as has been suggested by many news articles of recent times, then 30+ is a definite possibility. I think it could be anywhere from 25 to around 50,in reality. It looks likely the 773ER will be the aircraft of choice in that category and they appear almost certain to order 772LR/LRF as well.
I have suggested on various forums that EK are looking at an eventual fleet of A359/772LR/772LRF/773ER/A380/A380F. I am pretty certain this is now their plan. No pax aircraft under 300 pax and no pax aircraft with a range of less than 7,500nm.
 
intothinair
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:03 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 13):
If they exercise their 9 773ER options and replace their 18 346HGWs orders and 8 345s(2 will never be received by EK) as has been suggested by many news articles of recent times, then 30+ is a definite possibility.

Very good point indeed. It could indeed be possible that EK will cancel their A346HGW order, sell their A345, and use the 9 options for the 773ER+buy a bunch of 772LR. Would be good news for Boeing indeed if this deal would go through. I believe the Boeing 777 can get over 100 orders this year, and let's hope that the AC777/787 deal will still go through!

Cheers, Konstantin G.
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:16 pm

Why does nobody mentioned the 2 777's for KLM orderd in may?
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:18 pm

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 11):
Thank you Eoinnz. Are you referring to AirNZ's deliveries of the initial order announced last year? Or, is there talk that AirNZ may exercise some Purchase Rights as an add-on order?

Just referring to last years order. I relized once i posted it, this was about NEW orders this year not new delivers but still a gentle reminder to you all!!!
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:16 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 15):
Why does nobody mentioned the 2 777's for KLM orderd in may?

Fair point MauriceB. I assumed that the 2 772ER KLM ordered were to be via ILFC and had already been ordered by ILFC and therefore will not be booked as new orders by Boeing on their site. Is this the order you speak of;

http://ilfc.com/press/2005%20KLM%20B777-206.htm

If so, perhaps I have my answer for whom the 2 ILFC 772ERs are destined for if these are new build. Hamlet69 doesn't list it thus my assumption they were previously ordered frames.

Dale Thanks for your opinion.

Regards
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flyAUA
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:49 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
""Qantas is currently evaluating the 777 and 787 against the A340 and A350. A decision is probably three to four months off, said Geoff Dixon, chief executive of Qantas.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
"Our people at this stage are not confident that the plane can meet the specifications that Boeing indicates," Dixon said.""

Hmmm I am confused now. So they made that statement on the 21st, and then the other statement (yesterday) that they are moving away from it, and that the A350/B787 replacement is more imminent now.

It's not like Qantas to send out mixed signals like this is it?
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dalecary
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 18):
Hmmm I am confused now. So they made that statement on the 21st, and then the other statement (yesterday) that they are moving away from it, and that the A350/B787 replacement is more imminent now.

It's not like Qantas to send out mixed signals like this is it?

Yep, QF are known for changing their minds frequently. They are waiting for more details on the 772LR from Boeing to meet their business case for LHR-SYD all year round non-stop service with a payload suitable to QF. They don't have this problem with the 773ER,obviously, as it won't be used for that purpose(as it can't be).
I believe both quotes are essentially correct and that QF are evaluating the 773ER v 346 and the 787(all versions) v the A350(all versions). The 772LR may just be in the equation also. A timeline for this order of late this year seems correct from latest info I have.
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:03 am

After reading the following link it looks like Air Sahara may well commit to more than the 2 previously announced 772ERs. The report, to me, indicates that we may see an order for New Build 777s though it does mention other models too.

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=94647

Regards
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:51 am

I am sure those two ILFC 772ER orders are for AM. AM and ILFC closed their agreement earlier this year and ILFC placed the order at that time. Delivery is scheduled in early 2006. Rumors are that an option for a third 772ER will be firmed and AM will get via ILFC a third 772ER later in 2006.
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atmx2000
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:45 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
I am sure those two ILFC 772ER orders are for AM. AM and ILFC closed their agreement earlier this year and ILFC placed the order at that time. Delivery is scheduled in early 2006. Rumors are that an option for a third 772ER will be firmed and AM will get via ILFC a third 772ER later in 2006

I thought they were for Air Sahara.
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:23 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 22):
I thought they were for Air Sahara.

The Air Sahara 772ERs see the first delivered in October 2005. To the best of my knowledge no Lessors have "New Build" 772ERs to deliver in that time frame. This would indicate that may be some of RGs recently returned 772s will be provided as an interim measure until S2 place an order either directly or via a Lessor.

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The777Man
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:54 am

The current issue of World Airline Fleets News has this info: "TAAG Angola Airlines has finalised an order with Boeing for 3 777-200ER and 6 737NG. The deal was signed during the Angolan President's visit to the Us" [in May].

I haven't seen anything on Boeing's website and TAAG seems to have some websites run by their GSAs in certain countries but no mentioning of this either. I guess they are waiting for financing or they will firm up the order later ?

Same with the Air Sahara order to lease two 777-200ER; no mention of this on their website on nothing on ILFCs either yet ? Perhaps this is a case of someone jumping the gun; they are still negotiating with the ILFC but no deal yet but the person in the article says it's firm anyway ?

More info ??

The777Man
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dalecary
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:16 am

EVA are apparently negotiating for 10+ 772LRF according to today's China Times.
 
QFA001
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:39 am

There is four remaining pax B747-400s remaining to be delivered to PR from a 1996 order. However, it just doesn't seem that PR wants to take them.

Oops, was this the right thread to mention that?  Wink
 
dalecary
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 26):
Oops, was this the right thread to mention that?

Definitely not. How inappropriate!!!

RPT-Taiwan's EVA looks to buy 10 Boeing 777 freighters
Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:38 AM ET
(Repeats to wider audience)
TAIPEI, June 28 (Reuters) - Taiwan's EVA Airways Corp. (2618.TW: Quote, Profile, Research) , the island's second-largest carrier, is looking to purchase 10 Boeing Co. (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 777-200LR freighters, which will enter service by 2009, a company executive said on Tuesday.

Just confirmation that EVA is looking at 10 772LRFs.
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:52 pm

Quoting The777Man (Reply 24):
I guess they are waiting for financing or they will firm up the order later ?

Hi The777Man was wondering whether you'd appear on this thread  Wink With regards to TAAG it may well be that the Ex-Im Bank is behing the financing for this deal in which case no order will be placed until the Bank finalises all the paperwork. Refer to how WJs 736s or ETs 787s appear as a good example of the time lag between announcement and firm order being placed when the Ex-Im is involved in the deal.

I'm a bit confused too on Air Sahara. I referred to your homepage and thought that the 2 RG 777s being returned to ILFC would be for S2 as it met with the October 05 delivery mentioned. However, RG may well keep them (last I heard) in which case it could well be ILFCs Paris order is for S2 though with a later delivery schedule than that announced? Just my thoughts though. See the link I posted above as it does appear S2 will Order or Lease a similar number of 777s to that of 9W from the way they're talking.

Any opinion as to whom the 6 773ER ILFC ordered are for too? Your opinion would be appreciated.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 27):
Just confirmation that EVA is looking at 10 772LRFs.

Thanks Dale. The question here is, what happens to the 3 772LR on order? Is this in addition to the 10 772Fs that EVA intend to purchase or will the PAX versions be converted to F model and we see 7 new orders?

Regards

P.S. I think QFA001 was on the wrong thread!!!!
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The777Man
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:11 am

Hi PANAM_DC10!

As for the 777s for Air Sahara (S2), it makes a lot of sense when you are saying that they 777-200ERs ordered at the Paris Air Show are for Air Sahara but that they got the year wrong. Perhaps they will be delivered in Oct06 ? Perhaps things will be more clear when ILFC updates their pressreleases webpage.

Very true about TAAG Angola's 777 order. We will just have to wait and see. I still think Boeing would have issued a press release.

As for the 777-300ER ordered by ILFC, my guess is KLM (KL); they already have the -200ER and will use these to replace some of their 747-400s. Just a wild guess.

It's not clear yet about the 777-200LR but it looks like they will keep them on order since there was no mentioning that they will convert 3 -200LRs into -200Fs.

Thanks for checking my webpage and asking for my input.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
dalecary
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:50 am

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 28):
Thanks Dale. The question here is, what happens to the 3 772LR on order? Is this in addition to the 10 772Fs that EVA intend to purchase or will the PAX versions be converted to F model and we see 7 new orders?

Regards

P.S. I think QFA001 was on the wrong thread!!!!

Not certain about the status of the EVA 772LRs. I'm sure QFA001 was on the wrong thread. I'm sure he'll do better next time!!!
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:36 pm

Hello T7Man and thanks for your response.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 29):
As for the 777-300ER ordered by ILFC, my guess is KLM (KL); they already have the -200ER and will use these to replace some of their 747-400s. Just a wild guess

Thank you, I'm of the opinion that it is not such a wild guess as you may think. Of the list I can think of KL, EK or AirNZ with EK least likely. Just my opinion. It does appear EVA will retain their 772LR pax versions too at this stage despite the later delivery dates.

Regards

PANAM_DC10
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dalecary
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:18 pm

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 26):
There is four remaining pax B747-400s remaining to be delivered to PR from a 1996 order. However, it just doesn't seem that PR wants to take them.

Oops, was this the right thread to mention that?

Oops, I think it may be the right thread. I misread it completely and now read it that PR are interested in 777s instead of taking on the last 4 pax 744s they have on order. Maybe this is why the order has lingered on the Boeing books so long.
 
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:25 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 32):
Oops, I think it may be the right thread. I misread it completely and now read it that PR are interested in 777s instead of taking on the last 4 pax 744s they have on order. Maybe this is why the order has lingered on the Boeing books so long.

With the benefit of hindsight it could well be that QFA001 was "lobbing a grenade" into the thread so to speak. I was under the impression the PAL 744s were still sitting on Boeing's books due to PAL not being in a strong enough fiscal position to address the cost issues associated with the cancellation of that order.

One final question. With the pick up in 772LR/F orders. Are we likely to see GECAS firm their MoU for 8 772LR initially announced in 2000?

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
mauriceb
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:29 pm

Fair point MauriceB. I assumed that the 2 772ER KLM ordered were to be via ILFC and had already been ordered by ILFC and therefore will not be booked as new orders by Boeing on their site. Is this the order you speak of;


also, but they did order 2 777's this year themselfs...

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 31):
Hello T7Man and thanks for your response.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 29):
As for the 777-300ER ordered by ILFC, my guess is KLM (KL); they already have the -200ER and will use these to replace some of their 747-400s. Just a wild guess

Thank you, I'm of the opinion that it is not such a wild guess as you may think. Of the list I can think of KL, EK or AirNZ with EK least likely. Just my opinion. It does appear EVA will retain their 772LR pax versions too at this stage despite the later delivery dates.

KL won't replace theire 747-400's anytime soon... some of them are fairly new and they are by far the most important planes in the fleet, since they are mostly combi's...
 
QFA001
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 32):
Oops, I think it may be the right thread.



Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 33):
With the benefit of hindsight it could well be that QFA001 was "lobbing a grenade" into the thread so to speak.

Glad to see that you had your thinking caps on, chaps.  Wink

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 33):
Are we likely to see GECAS firm their MoU for 8 772LR initially announced in 2000?

This is Conco's favourite LoI.  Wink FWIW, I've never heard anything about it. If it is true, then surely the LoI would have expired by now, anyway?

BTW, there is a similar thread going on in the Orders Forum. It seems clearly possible that by end-05 (or not long afterwards) the B777 order tally could be >800 frames.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:50 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 34):
also, but they did order 2 777's this year themselfs..

I was not aware of that. I thought they had 6 direct orders from Boeing, the last 2 booked on December 20 2004 and 8 coming via ILFC (Including the 2 which the link provided mentioned) that should bring their total commitment to 14 772ER. Am I correct in the totals?

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:15 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 15):
Why does nobody mentioned the 2 777's for KLM orderd in may?

Probably because these have not been confirmed as new orders by Boeing as of yet. To my knowledge, these aircraft are leases from ILFC, which topped their last remaining open -200ER deliveries (not at home though, so I may be mistaken on that). Either that, or you've hit upon who the 2 recently ordered -200ER's are for. . .

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 18):
So they made that statement on the 21st, and then the other statement (yesterday) that they are moving away from it, and that the A350/B787 replacement is more imminent now.

The A340/777 will be ordered, it is simply a matter of QF moving their A350/787 decision forward to coincide with the former. I.E.= larger order than previously expected.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 26):
Oops, was this the right thread to mention that?

Sure. . . I'm sure your simply, what's the word, "lost"?  Wink

Quoting The777Man (Reply 29):
Very true about TAAG Angola's 777 order. We will just have to wait and see. I still think Boeing would have issued a press release.

If the only thing holding up this order was final confirmation by Ex-Im, I would place money on Boeing issuing a press release before now. Unfortunately, as with Biman's order, I believe this still has some issues to be resolved, namely how the airline is to pay for the aircraft.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 30):
I'm sure QFA001 was on the wrong thread.

And I'll buy you and QFA001 a beer that says he knew exactly what thread he was on. The only surprise I have is the fact that he didn't mention that, apparently, with LAN's recent A318/319 order, the remaining A340's have been dropped. . .

Regards,

Hamlet69
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dalecary
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:36 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 37):
The A340/777 will be ordered, it is simply a matter of QF moving their A350/787 decision forward to coincide with the former. I.E.= larger order than previously expected.

Absolutely correct and I believe the FI recent article mentioned something like 60 frames(20-odd 777 and 40-odd 787 would be my guess). I'm prepared to say QF won't order the 346, so it will be a 777 and either 350/787 order.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 37):
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 30):
I'm sure QFA001 was on the wrong thread.

And I'll buy you and QFA001 a beer that says he knew exactly what thread he was on. The only surprise I have is the fact that he didn't mention that, apparently, with LAN's recent A318/319 order, the remaining A340's have been dropped. . .

Yes, I really stuffed that one up!!!
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:32 am

Boeing booked 5 Unidentified 777s on their order site today. We won't know which model until August update of July orders though it would be interesting to know whether this is an add-on order from an existing operator or a new operator. Most order tenders appear well known, any guesses as to whom they could be for?

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:46 am

FYI - not necessarily ordered yet, but Alitalia is going to order an additional 4 aircraft!

You'll see it within the next few months.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
9v-svc
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:54 am

Slightly off topic here

I noticed some AZ's 777 are EI- registered , are they leased ? If so, how many are leased ?

Thanks.
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 41):
Slightly off topic here

I noticed some AZ's 777 are EI- registered , are they leased ? If so, how many are leased ?

Thanks.

Six were bought outright from Boeing. Four are leased from GECAS (and EI- reg'd).

I'm trying to get clarity on where the additional four are coming. I've heard 2 are being bought directly and 2 are coming via GECAS.

Total AZ 777 fleet will be 14 by the end of 2008.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:46 pm

Just a wild guess, might the 2 772ER's for ILFC go to AA with the reason being they need the extra capacity for the ORD-DEL route.
 
aussieindc
Posts: 287
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:16 pm

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 43):
Just a wild guess, might the 2 772ER's for ILFC go to AA with the reason being they need the extra capacity for the ORD-DEL route.

Even with the 772ER, would it have the range capability to operate ORD-DEL nonstop? Seems an awful long way.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:41 pm

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 43):
might the 2 772ER's for ILFC go to AA

No, I feel the 2 ILFC 772ER are for KLM as covered by MauriceB and Hamlet69 in previous replies.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 42):
I'm trying to get clarity on where the additional four are coming. I've heard 2 are being bought directly and 2 are coming via GECAS

That's quite interesting thanks Alitalia744

If this were the case, I assume they would be for 772ERs. If sourced via GECAS do they have any coming off lease soon which will be available for AZ? If not GECAS would need to place an order for the new frames to meet their requirements.

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
aussie747
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:00 pm

I can confirm a decision has been made with regards to the QF Widebody order, however for privacy reasons I am unable to disclose anything further on the order in addition to when the announcement will be made public which could be made as far out as 18 August.The source is an immediate family member who does a hands on role with regards to the QF fleet. For these reasons I am reluctant however to start a new thread, needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

Believe you me I do not make such grandiose statements, without careful thought.
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:54 pm

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 46):
I can confirm a decision has been made with regards to the QF Widebody order, however for privacy reasons I am unable to disclose anything further on the order in addition to when the announcement will be made public which could be made as far out as 18 August.The source is an immediate family member who does a hands on role with regards to the QF fleet. For these reasons I am reluctant however to start a new thread, needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

Believe you me I do not make such grandiose statements, without careful thought.

Ok stop teasing..is it the 772LR/773ER/787 combo or just 772LR and 787?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:59 pm

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 45):
That's quite interesting thanks Alitalia744

If this were the case, I assume they would be for 772ERs. If sourced via GECAS do they have any coming off lease soon which will be available for AZ? If not GECAS would need to place an order for the new frames to meet their requirements.

Regards

The aircraft will be new build -243ERs. AZ currently does not need an aircraft with greater range than their current -200ERs. While they do have some interest in the 77W, currently only two or three routes could potentially sustain the aircraft being MXP/FCO to JFK/NRT. I do wonder however whether Buenos Aires or Sao Paolo could sustain it as the flights have been averaging over an 85% load factor year round lately (or so I've heard).

I'll create a post about AZ's fleet plans separately.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
dalecary
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005

Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:37 pm

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 46):
needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

Only 1 new Boeing member Aussie747?
The QF RFP is for 777/787 v 340/350. I believe the 777/787 combo is heavily favoured and you have basically told us it will be at least one of these.
Something appears to have changed as this order was not due for announcement in Q4 2005. Maybe, QF have snapped up some early delivery positions, such as AC's 773ER slots next year or QR's 2008 787 slots.

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