User avatar
lindy field
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:09 am

Today's there's an article in the Berliner Morgenpost (in German) about how Delta's JFK-TXL service has been a great success with load factors above 90%.

http://morgenpost.berlin1.de/content/2005/06/23/berlin/761847.html

More interesting is the report that the Berliner Airport Authority has been in talks with two unnamed Asian airlines about starting direct service from Hong Kong and another unspecified Asian destination. Supposedly an agreement will be reached by fall at the latest. Cathay Pacific has come out and said they have no plans to fly to Berlin.

1) So, which Asian airlines are most likely to fly to Berlin? Does anyone have any inside info? Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before one of those over-ambitious Middle Eastern airlines send some of their metal to Berlin to operate some mostly empty flights.

2) I was biking by TXL today and was pleased to see three heavies at the terminal - the Delta 767-300, a Lufthansa A300, and the MIAT Mongolian A310. Why does MIAT Mongolian fly to Berlin and not Frankfurt? Is this some strange holdover from the old days when they flew to East Berlin? Or are the Mongolians particularly fond of Brandenburger Spargel?

3) Why do some full-service airlines fly to Schoenefeld and not Tegel? It seems a little odd to me that El Al, Icelandair, and Aeroflot would stay at Schoenefeld. I suppose El Al likes the isolation for the sake of security. Is Aeroflot trying to save fuel by serving the Berlin airport closest to Moscow? Wouldn't it make sense for them to serve the same airport as their partners?
And are Icelanders just habituated to remote, out-of-the-way places?

4) Where are the Berlin cargo flights? I never see anything at Tegel and have only see the odd DHL 757 at Schoenefeld on a couple of occasions, usually there's just some cargo turboprops lying around.

Thanks for your answers.

Edward
 
clipperno1
Posts: 641
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 1999 12:47 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:17 am

1.) Could be Dragonair. They used to fly to ZRH with A330 or not?
But other that, the usual suspects from the middle-east.

4.) Dead market. Parcels yes,"real" freight no, or at least nothing you could not truck to FRA,AMS,CDG etc. overnight.
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
B742
Posts: 3559
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:48 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:21 am

1) Most likely to be Emirates (332) or Qatar (319) to TXL, I doubt that Dragonair will send a 333 to TXL, more likely to be CX 333 or nothing!

Rob!
 
oldeuropean
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:19 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:32 am

1.) This was also said about flights to CGN,one year ago , but nothing happened.

2.) Yes, I would say that the MIAT Mongolian flights serve clients with contacts to the former East-Berlin. It would be a little bit too expensive for Spargel. Big grin

Axel
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
VORFMD
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:46 am

As for Hong Kong it could be OASIS AIR HONG KONG, the second one could be
THAI.
 
CXoneworld
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:59 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topi

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:02 am

It will be a new airline namely Oasis Hong Kong, which interestingly aspires to be a long haul 747 budget carrier.

And then please allow me to point out one thing, Germany and Hong Kong has agreed on a new air bilateral just recently that allows for a maximum of 17 flights per week. Cathay has at present utilised 11 of those, rendering Oasis with only at most 6 flights per week and to be split between TXL and CGN (yes, the company has also filed for license to fly to CGN).

but that was only assuming Cathay will sit back and let a relatively unknown upstart "swipe" all worthy German slots away...

[Edited 2005-06-23 21:26:55]
oneworld alliance revolves around you
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:13 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 3):
1.) This was also said about flights to CGN,one year ago , but nothing happened.

So maybe it will happen this winter ?!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:21 am

dating back to GDR days, there are quite a few Mongolians (and Vietnamese, Cubans, Angolans and Mocambicans) living in Berlin. Many of them came to East Germany back in the 80s as contract workers or college students and got caught in the fall of the wall. After the unification those who could show a legal income reveived residence permits.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:40 am

These are the cargo operators from Berlin :


TXL:
TNT with BAe 146 06:05 - 06:35 and 21:40 - 22:45 (5 days a week)

THF:
Air Contractors with ATR 72

SXF:
DHL with 757 05:55 - 06: and 21:45 - 22:40 (5 days a week)

Farnair with ATR 72 05:20 - 22:30 (5 days a week)

@Lindy Field
Since you are living in Berlin as well you might be interested in this homepage
www.berlinspotter.de there you will find everything aviation related in Berlin
Greetings from Steglitz-Zehlendorf
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
User avatar
lindy field
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:02 am

Hi Columba,

Thanks for the link, I'd seen the Berlinspotter site before but it's nice to have it pointed out again.

I still find it strange that there's so little air cargo activity in Berlin but I guess that's the virtue of having such an excellent railway system.

Do you happen to know if spotters will be getting together for the inaugural Continental flight to TXL next week? I may go down to the airport, especially if the approach is from the west.

Edward
 
dazeflight
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:32 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:28 am

Even in the furture, the Cargo Business in Berlin won't get better. With the upcoming DHL-hub at LEJ and the consequently following full-cargo flights from the same airport, just one and half an hour away from Berlin, I guess the city will have big problems to aquire any of the latter, apart from hub-connections of the big integrators.

ciao
Daniel
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 9):
Do you happen to know if spotters will be getting together for the inaugural Continental flight to TXL next week? I may go down to the airport, especially if the approach is from the west.

Edward

Hi Edward,

well I am more of an aviation enthusiast as a spotter -I do appreciate nice pictures though - but I am sure that there will be a lot of spotters for the inaugural Continental flight. Especially since it will be a 757 with winglets a plane not very common -especially not in Europe. Besides every plane that is not a F100, 737,A320 or the LH A300 is a special plane in Berlin  Wink
If you go I am looking forward for the pictures, I am hoping that I will have an opportunity to fly with it soon. Since my American family lives in New Jersey.

Columba
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
User avatar
lindy field
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:14 am

Columba,

I am not much of a photographer or spotter either but it would be fun to meet some members of the Berliner aviation enthusiast community. If I do go, I'll try to get some photos for myaviation.net.

Edward
 
PA101
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:28 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:17 am

Wouldn't surprise me to see EK come in with daily service to DXB soon. They really seem to expand in Germany with twice daily services to MUC, FRA and DUS, and the new daily service to HAM.

Good thing though, Berlin needs some intercontinental traffic!
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topi

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:11 pm

Hi Edward

maybe we could arrange a meeting with all the "Berlin-members" of airliners.net at either one of the three airports, the new Technikmuseum or at the Air Force museum in Gatow.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
pelican
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:34 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 11):
esides every plane that is not a F100, 737,A320 or the LH A300 is a special plane in Berlin

So you can imagine how suprised I was by seeing an 342 in TXL last wednesday.


Here is a link to the pic for all Berliners who missed her:
http://www.berlin-spotter.de/focus/2005/qatar340.jpg

pelican
 
jakob77
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:09 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:03 pm

Quoting ClipperNo1 (Reply 1):
1.) Could be Dragonair. They used to fly to ZRH with A330 or not?
But other that, the usual suspects from the middle-east.

KA to ZRH in the past?
KA flies pax planes only within Asia. The rest outside of Asia are all cargo operations.
 
User avatar
lindy field
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:20 pm

I would enjoy a Berliner spotter meeting. You can email me through my profile. My preferences are for TXL (I live in Tegel) or the new exhibit in the Technikmuseum. Weekdays are actually better than weekends.
 
DeltaA380
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:18 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:26 pm

I am glad to see DL loads are so high; let's hope the revenue is good.

A few questions;

What is the status of Templehof; I'll never forget the day I say the restored LH Ju52/3m land there; it was like being in the 1930's. It is such a historic airport I am just concerned that they don't tear it down. Incidentally, what gave a terminal that old it's longevity?

As for Schonefeld; isn't that supposed to be the sight of the new Brandenberg International and how is the construction coming? Why didn't DL and CO just start flying into there?

Berlin is (as Deutsche Welle says,) at the Heart of Europe, they are a business city with a healthy tourist market too; why are they having such trouble attracting air carriers, both passenger and cargo? It just never made any sense to me.

Did Gatow ever see much commercial aviation? I haven't made it there yet.

The aviation museum, which they were building the last time I was there, how much of it is dedicated to commercial aviation and do they have any interesting commercial static displays?

This whole post is reminding me how much I miss Berlin; I have never had a boring visit... especially after a Berliner Weiser.
Vote Democratic in '06 and '08
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:39 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 15):
So you can imagine how suprised I was by seeing an 342 in TXL last wednesday.


Here is a link to the pic for all Berliners who missed her:
http://www.berlin-spotter.de/focus/2005/qatar340.jpg

pelican

Guess that was a VIP or goverment plane that was later parked at the military ramp ?

@Lindy Fiels

I would have the same preferences since SXF is too far away for me too and there is not much too see, TXL has more traffic then THF and SXF.
I have also not been at the new exhibit at the Technikmuseum, yet, because I have the feeling of might be disappointed since I am not that great of a WWI and WWII planes enthusiast (with a few exceptions) but I would love to see the Junkers Ju 52 (Tante Ju) and the C-47 -which of course you have already seen by driving by as it is displayed on the outside of the museum hanging from the roof.
So I would suggest TXL as a potential meeting spot. -Do you know when the plattform is open ?
Weekdays are for the next few weeks better for me too. Maybe we should open another thread so all the people of a.net that are interested have the chance to get notice and make suggestions ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
pelican
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:09 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 19):

Guess that was a VIP or government plane that was later parked at the military ramp ?

You're right. The head of state of Qatar visited Berlin last week...
Those government planes bring a little variety to TXL.

Quoting DeltaA380 (Reply 18):

As for Schonefeld; isn't that supposed to be the sight of the new Brandenberg International and how is the construction coming? Why didn't DL and CO just start flying into there?

The actual construction work hasn't even started. A court decision within the next 12 month (?) will decide whether BBI will ever become reality. Hence DL and CO (will) fly from TXL.

Quoting DeltaA380 (Reply 18):

Berlin is (as Deutsche Welle says,) at the Heart of Europe, they are a business city with a healthy tourist market too; why are they having such trouble attracting air carriers, both passenger and cargo? It just never made any sense to me.

It's the lack of big business in Berlin. There are virtual no HQs of big business companies in Berlin (Schering is an exception). Furthermore not one legacy carrier has a hub there (LH has FRA & MUC - not need for a third hub in Germany). Thus there's only small business traffic which can fill the premium classes and some decent tourist traffic. But that's not enough to attract more inter-continental flights to/from Berlin.

pelican
 
pelican
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topi

Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting DeltaA380 (Reply 18):
What is the status of Templehof; I'll never forget the day I say the restored LH Ju52/3m land there; it was like being in the 1930's. It is such a historic airport I am just concerned that they don't tear it down. Incidentally, what gave a terminal that old it's longevity?

There is a recent trip report about THF: Aborted Take-off: CGN-TXL THF-DTM W/DI&D5 (45 Pix) (by TriStar500 Jun 20 2005 in Trip Reports)

pelican
 
User avatar
lindy field
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:01 pm

@Columba - I have to admit that I don't know when the viewing platform at TXL is open. I often walk or bike through the woods to the western end of the runways close to the Boeing 707-400. It's a great spot when the approaches come from the west, I've even convinced my wife to picnic down there a couple of times. I can usually tell which way the arrivals are coming based on how much airport noise I hear in the morning from my apartment. But perhaps we should try to organize a meeting for next Friday 1 July for the inaugural CO flight?

@ Delta A380 - The most recent construction at Schoenefeld has been the opening of the covered walkway between the terminal and the railway station. They appear to be working on some new parking and landscaping in that area. The true construciton of BBI has yet to begin, as has already been pointed out.

Does anyone know if they'll add more RE trains to Schoenefeld next year to compensate for the RE lines which will be rerouted to the new north-south line?
 
FXMD11
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:34 pm

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:50 pm

I remember the season when SQ used to fly to SXF via ZRH ex SIN. I think that was like twice a week.(Winter 98/99). After only one schedule period
the SQ terminated that service. I think with all these hubs surrounded (FRA,LHR,AMS and even CPH) there is not much chance for BER to have Asian Connections. I think over the last decades, Berlin just lost the chance to establish themselves in the Transcontinental Business.
 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: Berlin - Hong Kong Flights & Other Berlin Topics

Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:29 am

Quoting FXMD11 (Reply 23):
I remember the season when SQ used to fly to SXF via ZRH ex SIN. I think that was like twice a week.(Winter 98/99). After only one schedule period
the SQ terminated that service.

SQ operated to SXF from September 1990 to late 1998

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 76er, Baidu [Spider], FLJ, flyguy89, headlessmike, jpetekyxmd80, LAX772LR, mnik101, PlanesNTrains, Qatara340, qf789, StTim, Thai77w, Waldo and 253 guests