newsisco
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How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:42 am

Does anyone know how old are the aa's/alaska airways MD-80s and MD-80 supers are
 
FlagshipAZ
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How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:31 am

American's first & oldest MD-80 (N203AA) is 22 yrs old, while the youngest (N984TW?) is 6 yrs old. N984TW came from the TWA take-over, and it may be the last MD-80 ever assembled, however I'm not 100% of this info.
I'll let someone else here that's more knowledgeable on Alaska's fleet to answer the rest of the question.  Wink Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
FlagshipAZ
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How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:09 pm

Well, since no one here will answer his Alaska Airways question, I'll do it anyway.  Wink Currently AS's oldest MD-80 is N931AS...20 yrs old. The youngest MD-80 is N982AS...8 yrs old. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
quickmover
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:21 pm

The TWA md83s were the last built. I thought they were parked though.
 
tothestars
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:26 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 1):
and it may be the last MD-80 ever assembled

It was the last MD-83 ever built, When it flew for TWA it had "The Spirit of Long Beach" painted on the side.

[Edited 2005-06-24 16:27:47]
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Udo
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:27 pm

Alaska: the average age of the MD-83 fleet is 13,27 years.

American: the average age is 11,69 years for the MD-83s and 17,62 years for the MD-82s.

Most of TWA's MD-83 are still in service with AA, mainly older MD-82 have been stored.


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Udo
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commavia
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:31 pm

Quoting Newsisco (Thread starter):
Does anyone know how old are the aa's/alaska airways MD-80s and MD-80 supers are

AA's oldest MD80 was delivered May 12, 1983, and thus just had its 22nd birthday. AA's newest MD80, N984TW, was delivered new from LGB to TWA on December 27, 1999 and was, indeed, the last MD80 ever built. AA's MD80s are, on average, 15.9 years old.

AS's oldest MD80, N931AS, was delivered February 20, 1985, and is 20 years old, and their newest, N982AS, was delivered May 27, 1997, and is thus just over eighty years old.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 3):
The TWA md83s were the last built. I thought they were parked though.

The TWA MD83s were the last built, and thus the newest, and some -- about 14 -- are still parked in storage in Roswell, NM, IIRC, but the vast majority of the TWA MD80s are still flying with AA.
 
September11
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 1):
American's first & oldest MD-80 (N203AA) is 22 yrs old, while the youngest (N984TW?) is 6 yrs old.

This is a classic photo (most popular) of 22 years old MD-80 (N203AA)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © The Douglas Aircraft Company (Jammy Lee)



Youngest MD80 (N984TW) no photo of that plane in TWA scheme


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kazim Alikhan - t.dot photography

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September11
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:31 am

I am not too familiar with AS M80s but I found photos of N931AS & N982AS.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
AS's oldest MD80, N931AS, was delivered February 20, 1985, and is 20 years old


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sokol Ymeri



Photo description identified N931AS as M83? What year was M83 first produced?

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
their newest, N982AS, was delivered May 27, 1997, and is thus just over eighty years old.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sokol Ymeri

Airliners.net of the Future
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
Well, since no one here will answer his Alaska Airways question, I'll do it anyway

How can you, since there's no such company as Alaska Airways?

Alaska AirLINES, however, is a very real company.  Wink

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
AS's oldest MD80, N931AS, was delivered February 20, 1985, and is 20 years old, and their newest, N982AS, was delivered May 27, 1997, and is thus just over eighty years old.

Eighty years, eh? Time to review your math skills....
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
tothestars
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
Well, since no one here will answer his Alaska Airways question, I'll do it anyway

How can you, since there's no such company as Alaska Airways?

Alaska AirLINES, however, is a very real company.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
AS's oldest MD80, N931AS, was delivered February 20, 1985, and is 20 years old, and their newest, N982AS, was delivered May 27, 1997, and is thus just over eighty years old.

Eighty years, eh? Time to review your math skills....

What's it like being perfect?
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commavia
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:03 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
Eighty years, eh? Time to review your math skills

Sorry! ... please excuse the typo.
 
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:12 am

Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 10):
What's it like being perfect?

Couldn't tell ya. I'm far from it...hence the wink at the end of my post. One was MEANT to follow the second one about "eighty years" as well.

I was just poking fun, that's all.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
Sorry! ... please excuse the typo.

No apology necessary! I should have put a wink at the end to indicate I was just playing around - I don't get bent about things like that.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:12 am

NW will snap up those 80 year old 80's!

Being a Douglas design they'll probably be still flying in 80 years.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 13):
Being a Douglas design they'll probably be still flying in 80 years.

Well you know what they say - when the last A320 is flown to Marana or Mojave for scrapping, the pilots will be ferried home on DC-9s!  biggrin 
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
commavia
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
Well you know what they say - when the last A320 is flown to Marana or Mojave for scrapping, the pilots will be ferried home on DC-9s!

Absolutely true. Douglas made great, tough, reliable planes. It is pretty telling that even now, more than 20 years after they first entered service, MD80s are still roughly cost-competitive with much, much newer 737s and A320s. That's pretty impressive. I fondly remember many flights on old DC10s, too, and I always remember hearing pilots say that it was the toughest bird they ever flew -- you could beat the crap out of it and it would still take on fuel and fly right on, no problems. It was just a great plane -- I am so sad to see the old 10s just about gone in the U.S.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:19 am

LOL! Big grin I wouldn't feel bad, Commavia. The way Douglas built their aircraft, the MD-80s could very well be flying until their 80th b-day. Hell, look at the DC-3s that are still around, and NW's DC-9s are already half-way to that milestone.  Wink Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
September11
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting September11 (Reply 7):
Youngest MD80 (N984TW) no photo of that plane in TWA scheme

just found this picture ... the LAST ever produced M80


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter



photo description: N984TW (cn 53634/2287) "Spirit Of Long Beach" #9654. The last MD80 to be built.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
jfrworld
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:51 am

This may be a bit off topic, but appropriate to the MD80 family. How come some MD80's have a "pointed" tail cone and some have a "flat" tail ending? I think they may call them beaver tails, but I'm not sure.

Was this due to airline preference when ordering or was it part of a series update?

Any help is appreciated.
 
aa777jr
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:52 am

http://www.airfleets.net

AA are too old to to figure.  Smile
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
jfrworld
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:55 am

For an example of my question above, you can reference the two side by side photos of the AA MD80's referenced by September11 above.
 
September11
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting Jfrworld (Reply 18):
This may be a bit off topic, but appropriate to the MD80 family. How come some MD80's have a "pointed" tail cone and some have a "flat" tail ending? I think they may call them beaver tails, but I'm not sure.

Was this due to airline preference when ordering or was it part of a series update?

Any help is appreciated.

Here is archived thread to help you
Airliners.net of the Future
 
N1120A
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting Newsisco (Thread starter):
MD-80s and MD-80 supers are

All MD-80s are "Super 80s".

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 3):
The TWA md83s were the last built. I thought they were parked though.

Nope, AA has kept most of TW's newer MD-80s flying

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
and is thus just over eighty years old.

Man, that is one impressive aircraft.  Silly
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Carpethead
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:37 am

Considering AS just ordered 35 738s, the MD-80s are headed out the door.
AS has been slowly withdrawing a number of MD-80s, particularly the older ones.
Obviously, no timetable for AA MD-80 replacement.

MD-80s are still great planes when maintained properly. The only seat that suck are the ones next to the engines, but I suppose it depends on if one likes the loud engine whines.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:40 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
The TWA MD83s were the last built, and thus the newest, and some -- about 14 -- are still parked in storage in Roswell, NM, IIRC, but the vast majority of the TWA MD80s are still flying with AA.

Not to get too optimistic about expansion here, but this appears to give AA some narrowbodies to bring back into mainline service to replace some of Eagle's better-producing flights, right? Or are these parked aircraft something AA wants to retire to make the fleet more standardized?

You know I am new to A-net and thought I knew a lot about airlines but sheesh....this group makes me feel like a novice!
 
commavia
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:05 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 24):
Not to get too optimistic about expansion here, but this appears to give AA some narrowbodies to bring back into mainline service to replace some of Eagle's better-producing flights, right?

Theoretically, yes. These TWA MD80s can be reactivated by AA and brought back into service in the future. Although, I'm not sure if it will be to replace Eagle.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 24):
Or are these parked aircraft something AA wants to retire to make the fleet more standardized?

As of now, as far as I know, these planes are only in temporary storage. That means that they are not parked for good. The old 762s are parked. They are never coming back and AA is as we speak in the process of lining up scrapping for them. The ex-TWA MD80s parked (I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's 14) are just in temporary storage.
 
ckfred
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:27 pm

The only reason that AA's 767-200s (non-ER) would come back is if a major carrier were to go out of business, and AA needed to get every parked plane back in service.

Considering that US is planning to merge with HP, and UA appears poised to come out of Chapter 11, that slim possibility grows slimmer until the aircraft are sold or scrapped.

As for the MD-80s, I believe that AA took delivery of its last MD-80 in 1991, so the youngest non-TW aircraft in the MD-80 fleet is 14 years old.

A friend of mine who flies for AA has said that the MD-80s have a lot of cycles left in them, although the older ones are needing more maintenance. If AA were to start making money consistantly, he could see AA retiring the oldest 40 or 50, replacing them with the MD-80s parked in the desert and some 737-800s.

There is also a rumor of AA replacing the JT8Ds with one of several new engines. He thinks that might depend on the price of oil and how soon Stage IV noise limits could take effect.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:28 pm

If all the stored MD-80s were to be bought back into service, then AA would have a fleet of 362 Mad Dogs! I think this is by far the largest fleet of one type of aircraft ever operated by a legacy carrier. Not counting Aeroflot, of course. Big grin Just an observation here. Regards.
P.S...yes, I know Southwest has alot of 737s, probably more than AA's MD-80s.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
commavia
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:37 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 26):
The only reason that AA's 767-200s (non-ER) would come back is if a major carrier were to go out of business, and AA needed to get every parked plane back in service.

I doubt they'll ever even get the chance. Most are already being prepared to be scraped and scavanged for parts. They're not coming back.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 26):
A friend of mine who flies for AA has said that the MD-80s have a lot of cycles left in them, although the older ones are needing more maintenance.

AA's MD80s definitely do have many, many more cycles in them. Heck -- look at NW's DC9s! Some of those are almost 30 years old and are still running reliably for their owner. Just goes to show what Douglas metal is made of!

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 26):
If AA were to start making money consistantly, he could see AA retiring the oldest 40 or 50, replacing them with the MD-80s parked in the desert and some 737-800s.

Once the 737-800s start arriving again, in 2013, I think this is probably what's going to happen. AA will no doubt use the 738 primarily for growth, but will also probably begin to retire the oldest, highest-cyle MD80s from 1983-1984 which by that time will be over 30 years old.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 26):
There is also a rumor of AA replacing the JT8Ds with one of several new engines.

This rumor has been floating around for several years, with the biggest emphasis being put on perhaps an AA MD80 fleet re-engine with BR715s. The problem, however, is that this would cost millions upon millions and AA has just spent some bucks uprating all MD80s from JT8D-217 and -217C to -219, allowing for a few thousands more pounds of MTOW and pretty much making all AA MD80s capable of flying out of short-field (LGA) and hot-and-high (DEN, MEX) airports year-round.

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 27):
I think this is by far the largest fleet of one type of aircraft ever operated by a legacy carrier.

I believe you are right. I can't think of any other legacy airline that has ever flown that many examples of a single aircraft variant.
 
ASMD80
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:09 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 8):

Photo description identified N931AS as M83? What year was M83 first produced?

Most likely it was converted to an MD83. BTW, how are MD-82 a/c converted to MD-83?
Some things are actually better at 30,000+ feet...
 
jeb94
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:59 pm

MD 82s are converted to 83s basically by uprating the engines from 217s to 219s, changing the landing gear out for a set capable of more weight, and changing the rudder power pack and stops for beefier units with different throw limits. Its really not that complicated a procedure but does require a wee bit of heavy work. All of G4's MD83s were converted from MD82s with a couple exceptions. It may also include replacing the tailcone with the more aerodynamically efficient beaver tails if that hadn't already been done and the addition of two aux fuel tanks but these are optional. I hope Alaska hurries up and retires a good batch of 80s. There is at least one operator that could really use them!
 
N1120A
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:14 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 27):
I think this is by far the largest fleet of one type of aircraft ever operated by a legacy carrier. Not counting Aeroflot, of course. Just an observation here. Regards.
P.S...yes, I know Southwest has alot of 737s, probably more than AA's MD-80s.

Yes WN has a lot of 737s. More than 400

Quoting Jeb94 (Reply 30):
I hope Alaska hurries up and retires a good batch of 80s. There is at least one operator that could really use them!

And that carrier is... American Airlines Big grin (yes, I know you are talking about G4).
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
EIPremier
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:02 am

I believe AS has 3 MD-80s that were delivered in 1985, making them 20 years old (N931AS, N934AS, N935AS0. The remaining 23 MD-80s were delivered between 1990 and 1997. The newest are N981AS and N982AS, from May of 1997. Anyone know how many of the AS MD-80s are -82s versus -83s? I think some of the -82s were converted to -83s.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:24 am

I have only had the opportunity to fly on the MD-80's once and that was when I was on holiday in the US and both me and my brother flew AA LAX-LAS return and the Super 80 flew the route in both directions.

I don't know if they had just refitted the cabin but the leg room and the width of the seats were was some some of the most generous room I have flown on with any airline. The take off performance was nothing fantastic but they were so quiet!

I can't believe they are over 20yrs old! They beat the 737NG and A320 any day!

That was the first and only time I have flown AA and the Mad Dog and would not hesitate to fly them again. The MD-80 is now one of my favourite aircrafts (Narrowly behind the Tristar!)
 
roseflyer
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:21 pm

Just checking, but was AS receiving MD-80s and 734s at the same time. The capacity on the two planes are almost the exact same, so why would AS make such a move that is against fleet commonality? AS in the 90s didn't necessarily have a large enough fleet to counteract the costs of a lack of commonality. Did Boeing and McDonnell Douglas just give them a really good deal on a limited number of planes each?
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
September11
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:56 pm

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 32):
The remaining 23 MD-80s were delivered between 1990 and 1997

they lost one MD80 few years ago ... N963AS ... rudder control lost during flight off California shore ...

here is photo of their MD80 that was perished


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kurt Roth - Aviation Photography Of Miami




photo description: Built and delivered in 1992...this aircraft was lost on 31-Jan-2000 in the Pacific Ocean just off of Pt. Mugu Naval Air Station (PMTC). Flight was from Mexico bound for SFO and SEA.
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N1120A
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 34):
Just checking, but was AS receiving MD-80s and 734s at the same time. The capacity on the two planes are almost the exact same, so why would AS make such a move that is against fleet commonality?

AS had planned on having a completely common MD-80 fleet (with the 732Cs excepted) because of their typical fleet mission at the time and the MD-80s excellent hot/high performance for their at that time new expansion to Mexico. Problem was, the MD-80 did not like conditions during the Alaska winter at all and AS had to come up with a solution. The 734s did much better up there so the MD-80s were kept on routes SEA and south while the 734s saw service in Alaska
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
atrude777
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RE: How Old Are AA's And AS' MD-80?

Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:19 am

Southwest has about 432 737's. AA has what someone said 362 I think.

NWA is probably behind AA with most aircrafts with the DC-9 I assume.

Alex
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