Indy
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NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:33 am

This comes as absolutely no shock to me that NW is dropping the IND-STL route at the end of June. This route was advertised as being 3x daily. It quickly went to 2x daily and now it will be dropped at the end of this month. The route will have lasted 3 weeks. This comes as no shock to me as I have checked seat assignments and they have been pretty much empty. I'd guess that on average the load is 25%.

[Edited 2005-06-23 22:41:16]
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
September11
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
now it will be dropped at the end of this money.

... end of this money ...  wink 

NW nonstop cities from STL:

MEM?
DTW?
MSP?

good enough for NW in STL, in my honest opinion.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
MaverickM11
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:41 am

I think that goes for most of the rest of the non-hub NW flights out of MKE and IND as I've heard.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:41 am

Good eye  Smile. I think I need you to type for me today. Having typing issues here. lol
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
I think that goes for most of the rest of the non-hub NW flights out of MKE and IND as I've heard.

Other than STL which routes are bad? I've spot checked flights and they looked really good. God knows concourse A is always packed.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
stl1326
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:46 am

That is no surprise to me either. Who could afford to fly the route with fares averaging over $900 for such a short flight? I don't even know why they would have added this route in the first place. The O&D traffic on the route is horrible something like 50 daily passengers.
 
September11
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
non-hub NW flights out of MKE

the old days! "mini-hub" look at 1988 MKE photo

 point 
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris E. Novak



photo description:
Convair Heaven! The short-lived Northwest "mini-hub" at MKE featuring a trio of Convair 580's. N4811C is arriving as N2729R is moving out and N3423 is parked adjacent to a Northwest 757 N520US.

Quoting Indy (Reply 3):
Having typing issues here. lol

lol. I like to help people, that's why ...
Airliners.net of the Future
 
fedexexpress
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:52 am

Why not NWA IND to SFO????? Or IND to Portland Ore??????????
"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:03 am

Never understood why this route ever came to fruition in the first place. Shutting down after only 3 weeks confirms what most of here predicted in the first place.

On a related note, I would guess AA will go back to an AT7 or even a J41 on STL-IND, now that the competition has gone away...
 
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ERJ170
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:13 am

How's IND-RDU doing?
Aiming High and going far..
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:16 am

IND-RDU looks good. Seems to be selling fine. Not sure how profitable it is.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:47 am

I've heard that NW is doing fabulous out of IND. Anyone who has recently been in Concourse A will know that it is usually packed. Also, every time I fly NW out of IND my flights are full or overbooked. I was thinking about non-reving from LGA-IND and heard that it is near impossible, especially on the weekends.
 
KarlB737
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:47 am

Anybody now where the CV-580s are today? Or should I say which desert airfield............
 
Tornado82
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 8):

On a related note, I would guess AA will go back to an AT7 or even a J41 on STL-IND, now that the competition has gone away...

It already is a J41 at least on some times... my girlfriend is booked IND-STL-OKC and IND-STL is a J41.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:10 am

IND loads (From IND) tomorrow June 24.
Flight Load Aircraft
IND-PHL
4794 26/44 CRJ
4796 25/44 CRJ
4798 43/44 CRJ

IND-LGA
146 3/16 & 69/84 DC-9-30
4777 35/44 CRJ
637 3/16 & 61/84 DC-9-30

IND-BOS
4784 43/44 CRJ
4786 40/44 CRJ

IND-BDL
4767 35/44 CRJ
4786 40/44 CRJ

IND-LAS
151 5/16 & 121/108 A319
153 1/16 & 116/108 A319

IND-SEA
1091 7/16 & 104/108 A319

IND-DEN
1937 3/16 & 110/108 A319

IND-MCO
822 3/16 & 90/84 DC-9-30
824 4/16 & 93/84 DC-9-30

IND-FLL
500 5/16 & 88/84 DC-9-30

IND-TPA
478 13/16 & 69/132 A320
1076 8/16 & 96/84 DC-9-30

IND-RSW
1228 4/16 & 90/84 DC-9-30

IND-RDU
4758 44/44 CRJ
4760 44/44 CRJ

IND-DFW
2983 43/44 CRJ
2985 43/44 CRJ
2979 30/44 CRJ

IND-AUS
4789 41/44 CRJ

IND-LAX
205 9/16 & 89/108 A319

IND-MEM
1873 13/16 & 103/109 DC-9-50
1589 1/16 & 74/84 DC-9-30
1877 16/16 & 114/108 A320

IND-MSP
395 11/16 & 133/132 A320
501 12/16 & 97/108 A319
497 15/16 & 83/84 DC-9-30
503 6/16 & 112/109 DC-9-50
505 2/16 & 92/94 DC-9-40
499 10/16 & 135/132 A320

IND-DTW
1102 6/16 & 113/109 DC-9-50
478 13/16 & 69/132 A320
3722 42/44 CRJ
1016 10/16 & 84/84 DC-9-30
656 15/16 & 81/84 DC-9-30
1008 16/16 & 76/84 DC-9-30
1004 20/22 & 146/162 757-200
838 4/16 & 95/84 DC-9-30

IND-DCA
4792 29/44 CRJ
4790 39/44 CRJ
1596 11/16 & 50/84 DC-9-30

IND-STL
2933 2/44 CRJ
2937 24/44 CRJ

From PARS.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 14):

IND-RDU
4758 44/44 CRJ
4760 44/44 CRJ

Wow! Shut up! Can we get a switch to the Avro for one of these flights, please?
Aiming High and going far..
 
roseflyer
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:17 am

Thanks for the numbers. It looks like some of the flights are doing really well. I am not surprised at all that the business traffic destinations are not doing as well as some of the more leisure markets. But honestly, wouldn't it be fun to be on a CRJ with only two people? More staff than passengers.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Tornado82
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:28 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 16):
But honestly, wouldn't it be fun to be on a CRJ with only two people? More staff than passengers.

The question is... can you get 2 bags of pretzels.. and the WHOLE can of pop??
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:42 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15):
Wow! Shut up! Can we get a switch to the Avro for one of these flights, please?

Just because a flight fills up, doesn't mean you instantly upgrade it to a larger aircraft. If the RDU-IND flights are filling up and making money, which I'm sure they are, then unless adding more capacity would boost yields (which it likely wouldn't), there is no point. It wouldn't be wise of Northwest to dramaticlly increase seats on these routes unless there is a very obvious need (like when ATA dropped out of IND-LGA).

If anything, I think NW would add a third daily CRJ departure to better suit business travelers' needs.

[Edited 2005-06-24 03:50:33]
a.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:55 am

ERJ-There is also the part of one of the NW work groups' contracts that state any point-to-point flying must either be done by planes with 44 seats or less, or by mainline crews and metal. It's either the CRJ-440 or the DC-9-30 (or larger)
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
Tornado82
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:57 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 19):
ERJ-There is also the part of one of the NW work groups' contracts that state any point-to-point flying must either be done by planes with 44 seats or less, or by mainline crews and metal. It's either the CRJ-440 or the DC-9-30 (or larger)

Don't they run normal CRJ-200's to PHL from IND?
 
Okie
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 8):
On a related note, I would guess AA will go back to an AT7 or even a J41 on STL-IND, now that the competition has gone away...

Yeah, but that ATR on the morning flight with about 45 minutes between flights on an OKC-STL-IND connection still beats the heck out of going through DFW in my opinion.

Interesting note TWA's IND-STL morning flight before AA was a 57 and they would be turning away passengers. AA's way of shifting routing through ORD & DFW to cut down loads to STL and add delays to ORD & DFW.

Okie
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 20):
Don't they run normal CRJ-200's to PHL from IND?

Nope...that is the CRJ-440.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:04 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 19):
It's either the CRJ-440 or the DC-9-30 (or larger)

DC930 would be too much, I think.. I'm just happy the route is doing well. IND was, for a long time, a decent count unserved destination. Glad NW jumped on it. Now if they could add a 1 daily to MKE on the CRJ. I think 1 daily will be a plenty. Perhaps it would tick off YX for dropping the route. (although it would be nice to see YX do RDU-MKE/MCI on Skywest again) LOL.. perhaps not. Oh well, one can wish for more service.

And please no flaming from anyone.. I"m just wishing upon a star!  praise 
Aiming High and going far..
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:07 am

Burnsie28... thanks for the numbers. Looks like NW has made some equipment changes. Based on the routes and equipment at http://www.nwa.com/features/newindservice/ it looks like they've upgraded...

LGA - 2 CRJ upgrades to DC9-30
TPA - 1 DC9-30 upgrade to A320
MEM - DC9 upgrade to A320
DCA - 1 CRJ upgrade to DC9-30

Drops
BOS - 1 CRJ dropped. Now 2x daily
BDL - 1 DC9-30 dropped. Now 1x daily
STL - Ending Service 6/30

For the most part very nice loads. While PHL is a bit low on a couple of the flights it is slowly picking up since the route started. It has to be a hard sell with US flying there and all the connections US offers from there.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Tornado82
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:18 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 24):

For the most part very nice loads. While PHL is a bit low on a couple of the flights it is slowly picking up since the route started. It has to be a hard sell with US flying there and all the connections US offers from there.

For awhile, they and US were in a bit of a fare-war. I saw them as low as $145 once. That seems to have subsided now as they're back up to around $220

Wouldn't the break even point on those CRJ-440's have to be ridiculous since it's basically a 50 seater running with a 6 seat disadvantage all the time? As if CRJ-200's aren't bad enough as it is.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm

I wonder if NW will try a single daily flight from IND to MKE on a CRJ? Isn't Midwest Connect the only airline flying that route?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:58 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 24):
Burnsie28... thanks for the numbers. Looks like NW has made some equipment changes

Possibly in the future, I just took what PARS said for tomorrow then looked at the loads.
 
blhp68
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:06 pm

Burnsie,

What about the MCI-IND loads? Do you have those by chance?
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting Blhp68 (Reply 28):

MCI-IND for June 24
4769 39/44
2902 20/44

Also, Cancun only runs saturdays, so ill throw that one in since its operating right now, many of the other cities are seasonal (PBI, SRQ)

IND-CUN
1923 booked 0/16 & 137/132 (A320)

CUN-IND
1922 booked 4/16 & 137/132 (A320)
 
LambertMan
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:29 pm

STL-IND never even had a chance the way they priced it, I looked into flying it because I needed to go back to Bloomington for a day and it was just insane. No point for such a short hop, but all in all good to see that the IND routes are doing well as I had hoped (especially IND-DEN/SEA).
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:34 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 29):
MCI-IND for June 24
4769 39/44
2902 20/44

You are missing a flight. There are 3 daily departures to MCI. 4799, 4791, 4768 to MCI and 4786, 4769, 2902 from MCI.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:42 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 29):
Also, Cancun only runs saturdays, so ill throw that one in since its operating right now, many of the other cities are seasonal (PBI, SRQ)

The IND-PBI and IND-SRQ flights are not in the schedule for next winter. I know it is early, but I point it out because the seasonal IND-CUN (IND-CUN runs in the summer and winter; but not spring and fall, which is somewhat surprising) and IND-MIA flights are in the schedule for winter 2006.
a.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:56 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 31):
You are missing a flight. There are 3 daily departures to MCI. 4799, 4791, 4768 to MCI and 4786, 4769, 2902 from MCI.

Pars is only showing two flights non-stop MCI-IND tomorrow
thats

Flight 4769 and Flight 2902 which is odd that their official pax count and flight is showing one less then what http://www.nwa.com is showing.
 
N200WN
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:09 pm

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 30):
STL-IND never even had a chance the way they priced it

Well even at WN's fares the IND-STL market wasn't strong...as WN went from 5 flights daily to dropping the route all together in '03. So I'm not surprised at all that NW is dropping it as well. So who does this leave with mainline service on this route, AA?
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:12 pm

Quoting N200WN (Reply 34):
So who does this leave with mainline service on this route, AA?

This route has not seen a mainline jet since Southwest pulled out. AA is props and RJs.
a.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:16 pm

Problem with that route in my opinion is that its a 4 hr 30 minute drive to STL from IND. If you do the 2 hours early nonsense and the hour flight you only gain 1 hr 30 minutes. Might as well drive it and save the hundreds of dollars the airlines want. And in NW's case the $600 to $900. It is too easy of a shot straight down I-70 with little or nothing in the way.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
iowaman
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:38 pm

As said, IND-STL is such a short route and so expensive why bother flying.

I wonder if IND-SFO would work as a new route? I would think they wouldn't have a problem filling the A319 like they do to SEA.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:52 pm

If I had to put cities on a short list I think I would put PHX (95% sure it will be back), SFO, PDX and the less likely but possible routes would be MKE, YYZ and PIT.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:15 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
If I had to put cities on a short list I think I would put PHX (95% sure it will be back), SFO, PDX and the less likely but possible routes would be MKE, YYZ and PIT.

I think MKE/YYZ/PIT are much more likely than IND-PDX. I don't think that would happen. MEM doesn't even have PDX flights.
a.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:21 pm

Isn't PDX the gateway city on the west coast? Or is that SEA?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:34 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 40):
Isn't PDX the gateway city on the west coast? Or is that SEA?

Northwest has a decent operation out of PDX with non-stops to MSP, PDX, HNL, DTW (which until recently was seasonal) and NRT. Though Seattle is a bigger operation - MSP, DTW, MEM, AMS, NRT, HNL, OGG, KOA, and the seasonal IND.
a.
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:40 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 17):
can you get 2 bags of pretzels..

LOL now you cant even get any pretzels.
 
Eric777
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:07 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 24):
BDL - 1 DC9-30 dropped. Now 1x daily

I don't think BDL-IND was ever dc9.
-Eric
 
Tornado82
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:07 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
If I had to put cities on a short list I think I would put PHX (95% sure it will be back), SFO, PDX and the less likely but possible routes would be MKE, YYZ and PIT.

There's already a few PIT-IND's on US... and pretty cheap too! It's surprising the traffic on that route, except for alot of Pittsburghers moved towards that direction I guess?
 
mtnmanmakalu
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
I think that goes for most of the rest of the non-hub NW flights out of MKE and IND as I've heard.

You've heard wrong- most of the flights are doing very well, I have been told, by the powers that be at NWA....

mtnman
I do, I don't, whatever.......
 
willbdsp
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:33 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 44):
There's already a few PIT-IND's on US... and pretty cheap too! It's surprising the traffic on that route, except for alot of Pittsburghers moved towards that direction I guess?

I fly that route often and it isn't always that cheap. Today, I'm flying IND to PIT on UA because it is close to $300 cheaper than US. The highest I've seen a ticket on US from IND to PIT is $1000 (and that was a 14 day advance purchase).
 
Indy
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:48 am

$1000 14 days advance? Was it business class?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MaverickM11
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 4):
Other than STL which routes are bad?

Just about everything that Pinnacle flies out of IND and MKE is awful with the possible exception of IND/RDU and IND/LGA.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Quickly Drops IND-STL

Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 48):
Just about everything that Pinnacle flies out of IND and MKE is awful with the possible exception of IND/RDU and IND/LGA.

You dont read do you, STL is the only route that is doing poorly.

PHL, BDL, RDU, LGA, BOS, AUS, DFW, DCA flights are pretty much full  Wink