Capt.Fantastic
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:57 am

My projection is that NW will start year-round service to Rome and Milan: I am still waiting to see DTW to Zurich, Brussels, and Madrid.

I believe Northwest used to fly DTW-MXP - what happened?
 
dtwclipper
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:12 am

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 1):
believe Northwest used to fly DTW-MXP - what happened?

It was terminated shortly after 9/11
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:13 am

We cancelled it due to low yields. It was grossly inefficient operating out of there. It only lasted 4 or 6 months.
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aa777jr
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:18 am

Might be flying NW in Asia and I was looking into switching my FF program to World Perks. NW doesn't really go very many places in Europe. AMS, FRA, CDG, and LGW. Is FCO their only seasonal destination?

Regards.
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commavia
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:22 am

IMO, NW's #1 priority if this should go through (or even not), as long as they are in SkyTeam, is a daily MSP-CDG flight to augment and take pressure off the single DTW-CDG flight.
 
B742
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:25 am

I wish NWA would open up another UK destination!

When does FCO stop and start?

Rob!
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 4):
Is FCO their only seasonal destination?

Yes. Hopefully it will be daily, year-round, along with a few other destinations.
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TheGov
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:27 am

The local Memphis paper addressed this very issue this week stating that MEM could see a N/S to CDG within the next 5 years and to Asia within the next 7 years as a result of the SkyTeam alliance. The paper did not address which carrier would fly the route, either NW or AF.
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:36 am

With the 787, I could definately see us serving NRT from MEM. Seting a timetable could be a bit premature.
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dutchjet
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:49 am

NW opened up the DTW-FCO and DTW-MXP routes when KL and AZ were about to merge and NW entered into a codeshare agreement with AZ in connection with that aborted deal. The KL-AZ deal busted up and the result was that NW quickly cancelled the Rome and Milan flights due to lack of demand and resulting low yeilds. It is ironic that KL ended up with AF, which was already cooperating with AZ and that the whole group ended up in SkyTeam together.

NW had also planned a DTW-Madrid flight at one time, to be operated by a daily DC10 service - it was even in the schedule for a time - however, the flight never got off the ground.

NW has had little incentive to open up new transatlantic services due to their very strong relationship with KL - it is far less risky to simply route passengers via the AMS hub to destinations in Europe. This is a strong alliance with a very high level of cooperation - KL/NW offer 5 flights per day on the DTW-AMS route which is evidence of how closely the airlines work together in moving pax from the US to Europe and beyond.

I would expect that a MSP-CDG route will be opened, connecting the large NW hub as MSP with the AF base at CDG. I am not sure if NW will expand services to Italy for several reasons - loads to Italy are more seasonal that other European destinations, yeilds are not great, and very few extra connection possibilities are added by FCO/MXP flights since AMS and CDG have most European, African, Middle Eastern destinations covered, thus, why bother? The seasonal Rome service will likely remain seasonal and Milan is just a remote possibility. Detroit-Manchester has been talked about for years - the problem is that the A330 (and DC10) is probably too big for the route (except for the high demand summer months), Detroit-Madrid may also make a comeback, but I do not think that it is a priority. I do not think that Memphis can support additional flights to Europe - Memphis to AMS works, but I do not see enough demand to add a Paris flight as well.

Due to the KL partnership, and the fact that NW's US hubs are not ideal from a georaphical point of view as European gateways (they are simply too far west), I think that NW expansion of direct services to Europe will be very conversative.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:19 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 4):
Might be flying NW in Asia and I was looking into switching my FF program to World Perks

Maybe you could get the rest of the attorneys in your firm to switch as well!
That would be a real plus for NWA, gaining all that additional business
 
luv2fly
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):
Maybe you could get the rest of the attorneys in your firm to switch as well!
That would be a real plus for NWA, gaining all that additional business

Way to funny, thanks for the laugh!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
jamman
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:27 am

Agh you don't want to on mainland Europe, u got KLM/AF for that.
NWA pick MAN! Pick MAN, go on you know ya want to! did I ever tell u how cute u look? *tickles NWA under the chin*

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flyboy_se
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:31 am

I hope they start service to ARN.would be great to see their DC-10 here.I know a lot of Swedes fly on Icelandair to MSP, so i think a direct route would be good. Aslo from ARN passengers can continue on CSA,AF,KL,AZ and SU
Anyway it is just my wishfull thinking , but i ve been a good boy so santa may surprise me  Wink
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Jano
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:32 am

Very good! Maybe mu dream route of DTW-PRG becomes a reality within next 3-4 years Big grin
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LAXintl
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:43 am

NWA's overall European services lacks depth with the extreme concentration on AMS due to the KLM relationship.

Gaining immunity with Skyteam partners certainly should help NWA add and spread some of its European flying to other partner hubs particularly Paris which will boost the overall network strength of its European flights.

One of NWA's largest issues on its European network is its somewhat lack of appeal particularly for the business traveler which translates to lower revenue/yields.
A large percentage of NWA European passengers must double connect (ie xxx-DTW-AMS-xxx) which is not attractive to the business traveler. (Large percentages of NWA passengers come from points cities behind its hubs)
In addition AMS has traditionaly been one of the lower yielding European cities. NWA as a result has had to mostly use the back of the bus and need for high load factors to economically fly Europe.
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StevenUhl777
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:51 am

There's been (wild) speculation on this board in the past about a possible PDX-AMS flight...is this still a possibility or a pipe dream?
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doug_or
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:12 am

I'd think it would make marginaly more sense then the current LH service (AMS is more convient to most of Europe and you would have the QX feed), but I'd have a hard time imagining the two services co-existing. Access to NRT and AMS alongwith the AS/QX agreements would make a strong case for PDX FF to try and achieve status with NW, though.

[this is all of course wild speculation from my unimformed self]

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 17):
There's been (wild) speculation on this board in the past about a possible PDX-AMS flight...is this still a possibility or a pipe dream?
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:20 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 1):
believe Northwest used to fly DTW-MXP - what happened?

It was terminated shortly after 9/11

The flight was terminated well before 9.11. It ended after a very short run (about six months) in the fall of 2000.
a.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:50 am

Made from jets!
 
hjulicher
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:57 am

Actually, as a DTW NW flyer, I see that the possibilty of opening up another connection point as very viable. Although AMS is probably the nicest transfer airport in Europe, KLM lacks frequency which Air France can help with. For instance, KLM flies once daily to Moscow whereas Air France has 7 direct flights daily with aeroflot, or 4 daily themselves. On the return segment a over night stop is required with KLM but not so with Air France. Another example is a flight I took from DTW to MUC. I flew through the AMS hub, but my connection was over five hours. I think that Air France will help pick a lot that KLM simply can't. KLM has good coverage, but now that Air France and KLM are merged, a lot of overlap within Europe has been discontinued, hurting Northwest and North American passengers.

I would like to see a daily flight from DTW to Milan, Prague, Moscow, and more frequencies to Paris. BCN or Madrid would be nice too. I don't think that Detroit is that poorly situated. Since flights still have to fly on the great cirlce flights, (Arc shaped flight paths that are shorter on long distance flights because of the curvature of the earth.) Detroit isn't that out of the way. A flight from Philadelphia or New York to Europe may be only 1/2 hour longer from Detroit. Plus, there is still the large portion of people that live in the middle of the country that have needs to get to Europe too. Not everything is centered along the east coast.

Additionally, the fact that the new North Terminal in Detroit will have it's own customs and immigrations proves that Northwest will have more int. gate openings when BA, LF and RJ move to the north terminal. And with the purchase of the 787's, NW will have more Airbuses that will need to fly to new destinations, or otherwise will go unused. Detroit also offers the best facilities on the eastern half of the US.
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:16 am

DTW-MAD was planned twice until the sagging economy in 2002 and Iraq war/SARS scare in 2003 scrapped plans for that. The 2nd time around, there wasn't even a press release about it. It just never started.
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Capt.Fantastic
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:35 am

MAN would appear to be a good possibility: It is a bit impractical to fly to the UK via AMS or CDG. In off season, they could use smaller equipment, i.e. 757-200. Has NW considered using 757s across the Atlantic to smaller destinations like Manchester or Glasgow?
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:47 am

There was talk about it, but the 753's are concentrated on the high-density routes from DTW/MSP domestically and from the west coast cities to HNL. There are only 16 in the fleet, and stretched to the max with usage. The 752's are not ETOPS certified. There is questionable range capabilities with these aircraft. We would probably have to lease some that are already certified for longer-range use. But that's just my opinion.
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COSPN
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:00 am

MAN would appear to be a good possibility: It is a bit impractical to fly to the UK via AMS or CDG. In off season, they could use smaller equipment, i.e. 757-200. Has NW considered using 757s across the Atlantic to smaller destinations like Manchester or Glasgow?

Dont worry about that....CO can take care of it  Smile
 
avek00
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:07 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
With the 787, I could definately see us serving NRT from MEM.

I HIGHLY doubt it, unless it was an all-cargo flight - the pax traffic simply isn't there.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 16):
NWA's overall European services lacks depth with the extreme concentration on AMS due to the KLM relationship.

I think you mean that it lacks *breadth* - until the past year or so, NWA offered MORE capacity across the Atlantic than Continental. Of course, NWA serves no more than a half-dozen Euro cities while CO can't stop putting 757s in every Euro airfield that can accomodate one.
Live life to the fullest.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 26):
I HIGHLY doubt it, unless it was an all-cargo flight -the pax traffic simply isn't there.

You think so, The fact that WalMart is exploding in China, and many Asian companies are investing in the south/southeast, i'd say that we would have a good chance of gaining service form Asia from MEM. Remember we're talikng almost 10 years down the road. Alot can happen between now and then.
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N77014
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:28 am

All NW is doing here is entering into another hub to funnel pax in ways that AMS can't; namely West Africa, Mideast, and Eastern European connections.

In reality, the location and nature of DTW and MSP does not offer the kind of O/D that warrents the variety of destinations that CO offers ex EWR. That is why we will likely not see DTW to BRS, TLV, BRU, MAD, ZRH, etc.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:11 pm

It may not have the same draw that the New York area has, but DTW does have a strong market in the Mid East. Look at the position of the 2 hubs. They are right on both sides of ORD, one of the most busiest airports in the world. DTW and MSP are an attractive alternative to the Chicago area.
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Indy
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:21 pm

DTW has one big thing going for it in my opinion.. It isn't ORD. You can get in and out of DTW pretty darn easy. It is probably one of the easiest connecting hubs I have been to in ages. There is nothing fun about connecting in ORD when arriving on an international flight. DTW is much better.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
stirling
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:22 pm

Passengers over the Atlantic.
Last years data. 2004 traffic JAN-DEC, from ATW On-line.
Change over 2003 figures.

Northwest surely has the most to grow. Worst Growth, Best Load-Factor, go figure.

Airline Passengers Growth Load Factor
American<>4,432,000<>UP 15.46%<>81.3%
Delta Airlines<>4,355,000<>UP 18.86%<>80.7%
United Airlines<>3,620,000<>UP 6.84%<>82.3%
Continental<>3,331,000<>UP 22.43%<>80.7%
Northwest<>2,524,000<>UP 3.61%<>85.6%
US Airways<>1,866,000<>UP 4.67%<>82.3%
ATA<>526,000<>DOWN 11.67%<>61.6%
Delete this User
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:35 pm

Well, our CEO predicted that we wouldn't grow much past 1% over last year, so our low growth has been deliberate. Capacity is to remain flat from last years.
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avek00
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:46 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 27):
i'd say that we would have a good chance of gaining service form Asia from MEM.

I'd say that MIA and even *gasp* MSY are far more likely to receive pax nonstops to Asia than MEM.
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:07 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 33):
I'd say that MIA and even *gasp* MSY are far more likely to receive pax nonstops to Asia than MEM.

Okay, well when you're CEO of Northwest Airlines, i'll take your prediction for more than the grain of salt that it is.
Made from jets!
 
iowaman
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:18 pm

Quoting TheGov (Reply 8):
The local Memphis paper addressed this very issue this week stating that MEM could see a N/S to CDG within the next 5 years and to Asia within the next 7 years as a result of the SkyTeam alliance. The paper did not address which carrier would fly the route, either NW or AF.

MSP-CDG will happen before MEM most likely.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 27):
You think so, The fact that WalMart is exploding in China, and many Asian companies are investing in the south/southeast, i'd say that we would have a good chance of gaining service form Asia from MEM. Remember we're talikng almost 10 years down the road. Alot can happen between now and then

I hate to say it but compared to DTW or MSP, MEM just sucks for connecting flights. I don't think O&D would be enough. Basically between MSP and MEM you can get to any MEM destination except a few Mesaba poduck towns in the south that wouldn't have pax going to NRT anyways.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:24 pm

I've never been to MSP. How does connecting in MSP compare to MEM? Also is the MSP O/D much better than MEM? I have no idea. I don't know how either of them could compete with DTW.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
avek00
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 35):
I don't think O&D would be enough.

Both MIA and MSY offer far more pax/cargo O&D to Japan than MEM could reasonably generate.
Live life to the fullest.
 
goodmanr
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:27 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 37):
I've never been to MSP. How does connecting in MSP compare to MEM? Also is the MSP O/D much better than MEM? I have no idea. I don't know how either of them could compete with DTW.

MSP is good to connect in, it's big but not overcrowded and quite nice and easy. Minneapolis/St. Paul is a much larger metro area than Memphis. With around 2 million people and many major companies, MSP has a lot of O&D traffic. Detroit is bigger than the Twin Cities, but MSP serves a much more affluent area which is thriving rather than seeing major manufacturers in trouble.
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Capt.Fantastic
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:08 pm

When flying IND-LAS, I connected through Memphis on NWA - It wasn't too pleasant: I was very disappointed. Very long walk from my commuter flight to my NWA flight: The terminal itself is very plain, compared to other hub operatiuons, and in major need of a face-lift. DTW and MEM cannot be compared: its apples and oranges. MSP is very nice - not as nice as Detroit - but a great airport to connect through.

I have always hoped that NWA would get more beefy in the pacific NW, e.g. PDX and SEA. MEM is a skid mark on their route-map. If I was CEO of NWA, I would dump the MEM operation and allocate those resources elsewhere. Of course, I'm sure that won't happen.
 
Leneld
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:44 pm

Whatever happen To Northwest starting flights to Amsterdam from PDX?
 
GLAGAZ
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:25 pm

GLA was strongly rumoured last year from DTW or BOS but obviously nothing came of it. Would be good to see NWA back at GLA. According to others the DC-10's were regularly full until the KLM merger  Sad

Gaz
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BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:32 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 6):

This is a pretty good idea. NW need to do their homework, but copying EK's idea of using more regional airports (EK operates LGW, LHR, BHX, MAN and GLA to DXB) thus stealing BA business from under their nose. Some airlines are good at picking new routes/frequencies (like FR and U2) others (like WW or ZB) aren't.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
mauriceb
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:04 pm

I am still waiting to see DTW to Zurich, Brussels, and Madrid.


will not happen because its easier to fly to a place were you have an partner based, it will save a lot of costs because of ground handling and shared fuel, also the flights are almost always full...

if also heard NWA might Decrease the AMS flights in favour of more CDG flights, so that KLM can take-over the Slots, wich they really need (after the merger they are growing rapidly)
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:59 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 43):
will not happen because its easier to fly to a place were you have an partner based, it will save a lot of costs because of ground handling and shared fuel, also the flights are almost always full...

That used to be the conventional wisdom, but US, CO, AA and UA are testiment that you can still by pass European hubs in favor of direct service. It really is a matter of having the right kind of aircraft, in which NW has not had right kind of aircraft for routes like that.
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iowaman
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Leneld (Reply 40):
Whatever happen To Northwest starting flights to Amsterdam from PDX?



I can't answer that, but maybe when more A330's come it could happen.

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 39):
I MEM is a skid mark on their route-map. If I was CEO of NWA, I would dump the MEM operation and allocate those resources elsewhere. Of course, I'm sure that won't happen.

MEM is sort of a southern gateway for NW, so that won't happen.

Quoting Goodmanr (Reply 38):
Detroit is bigger than the Twin Cities, but MSP serves a much more affluent area which is thriving rather than seeing major manufacturers in trouble.

MSP is sort of a gateway to the upper midwest/west where flights from DTW and MEM are limited or non existent. MSP is definently more thriving then DTW.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:48 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 45):
Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 39):
I MEM is a skid mark on their route-map. If I was CEO of NWA, I would dump the MEM operation and allocate those resources elsewhere. Of course, I'm sure that won't happen.

Apparently you dont know how much revenue the Memphis hub actually brings in, also, there is plenty of feed from the South to make NRT work, they make AMS work, no reason why they cant make NRT, heck Delta flies ATL-NRT and im sure a good portion of that is connecting traffic, all of which NW could have too.
 
SESGDL
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:02 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 46):
Apparently you dont know how much revenue the Memphis hub actually brings in, also, there is plenty of feed from the South to make NRT work, they make AMS work, no reason why they cant make NRT, heck Delta flies ATL-NRT and im sure a good portion of that is connecting traffic, all of which NW could have too.

ATL is one of the largest O&D cities in the US, a huge business capital, 3rd largest in the US, and is the largest hub operation on the planet. Not to mention ATL is more than twice the size of MEM.

Jeremy
 
avek00
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:41 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 46):
heck Delta flies ATL-NRT and im sure a good portion of that is connecting traffic, all of which NW could have too.

The MEM hub is downright puny compared to DL's ATL operation. If Boeing's 737 replacement has the range for MEM-NRT, then dicussion of the route might make sense. Until then, the odds of a pax service from MEM to Asia is between Slim and None, and Slim just boarded a CRJ to connect to DL's ATL-NRT flight.
Live life to the fullest.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW Seeks More Service To Europe

Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 48):
The MEM hub is downright puny compared to DL's ATL operation

No argument there
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