N270FT
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KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:45 am

I understand that KLM has bought the A330.

Why did they order the A330 and the 777? I thought they were both designed for the same market.

Could someone please shed some light on this.

Thanks

A.W.
 
gigneil
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:48 am

The A330-200 is a signficantly smaller plane than a 777-200.

N
 
777klm
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:13 am

And does anybody know if they are installing the tailcamera on this plane?!
Next flight: AMS - TLV - AMS
 
B742
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:17 am

Quoting 777klm (Reply 2):
And does anybody know if they are installing the tailcamera on this plane?!

Also what about camera's on the front and bottom of the aircraft?

KLM has brought the A330-200's rather than the 777's competitor, the 300!

The A330-200's are a bit smaller than the KLM 777-200's and the A330-300!

Any idea on how many A330's KLM purchased, and how many options?

Rob!
 
Scorpio
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
Any idea on how many A330's KLM purchased, and how many options?

Original deal was for 6 firm, plus 18 (!) options. They'll be getting two more from ILFC, and rumors are they're going to confirm four of their options soon.
 
777klm
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:22 am

I thought they ordered 9 and have an option for another 24, but I can be wrong!

[Edited 2005-06-27 19:26:41]
Next flight: AMS - TLV - AMS
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:26 am

the orginal order is for 6 A330's, but now 2 ILFC's have been added and KL will place an order for 4 more...
 
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solnabo
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:51 am

....and the KL 767´s are to be scrapped???

Micke//SE  Confused
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
gigneil
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:03 am

Um, I doubt seriously that they will be scrapped.

N
 
N774UA
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:05 am

The first is already delivered to ZOOM airlines. The second and third are also going to ZOOM.

N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
karan69
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
Also what about camera's on the front and bottom of the aircraft?

I think that is the standard for all A330 aircrafts or atleast the 6 A330s of EK which i flew on had only the front and bottom views,
The bottom view is absolutely amazing, while in the air it makes you feel as if you are in a spy plane.
 
AMSSFO
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting N774UA (Reply 9):
The first is already delivered to ZOOM airlines. The second and third are also going to ZOOM.

is that true? I thought that first and third BZA and BZC are for ZOOM, while second and fourth (BZB and BZD) will go to Neos. The other 8 are rumoured to go to Transaero.
Can anyone confirm this?
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:04 am

....and the KL 767´s are to be scrapped???

Micke//SE


dude, those are one of the newest 767's....



is that true? I thought that first and third BZA and BZC are for ZOOM, while second and fourth (BZB and BZD) will go to Neos. The other 8 are rumoured to go to Transaero.
Can anyone confirm this?


yup, BZA is already with zoom, with B going to Neos, and C to zoom and D to Neos again. The other 8 are rumoured for the most to go to Transaero but also heard Aeroflot might pick-up one or 2
 
flpuck6
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:11 am

Just because a company operates the 777-200 doesn't mean it can't operate the A330-200! The each serve different destinations according to the operational needs for the company!

Take Air France for example, who operates strong fleets of both types and nothing is going wrong there!
Bonjour Chef!
 
dutchjet
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:19 am

The A332/B772 is a very good combination to cover long range operations - many, many airlines have opted for this combo - the A332 and the B772 are probably the best aircraft in each of their respective classes.

At KL, the A332s will replace the 763s which are going off lease.....KL's biggest problem with the 763 was its (lack of) cargo capacity, KL makes lots of money hauling freight. The 772s replaced the 743s (both all pax and combi versions) in the KL fleet, with additional 744ERFs being added to boost cargo capacity in the system.

KL will end up with a A332/772/MD11/744 (all pax and combi) longhaul fleet....over time, the MD11 maybe replaced by a mix of additional A332s and 772s, or possibily the larger versions of the 787 or A350 families, too soon to tell. There are no plans concerning a 744 replacement at this time.
 
777klm
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:03 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
There are no plans concerning a 744 replacement at this time.

Are there any plans to upgrade them in the near future?
Next flight: AMS - TLV - AMS
 
JRadier
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting 777KLM (Reply 15):
Are there any plans to upgrade them in the near future?

KLM stated it will upgrade the 744's with the same AVOD system as the 777 (and soon A330), but a timeframe is not released yet.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
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PM
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:23 pm

The KLM A332s are registered PH-AO_... So the seventh plane will be 'AOG'. Seems a little inauspicious!
 
cxsjr
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:15 pm

So if they're replacing the 767's, what routes do they operate now as I'd love to fly one of the KLM 332's?
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
Joost
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:25 pm

The first destination will be IAD. For the winter service, most likely EWR will be the second destination to receive the 332. In the slot allocation list for AMS the 332 is scheduled for those two destinations. However, rumours are also that a couple of flights to YUL and YVR will see the new Airbus.

The 332 offers great possibilities together with the 772. The 332 can reach every KL destination now served by 744 or 772 (just not sure about SIN/KUL) so they can vary the type easily to meet demand. It is also a great aircraft to explore new long-haul routes before sending 772's or 744's. Looking at AF's deployment of 332's, it seems that they can be used economically on long-haul destinations like NRT.
 
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PM
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:33 pm

Quoting Cxsjr (Reply 18):
So if they're replacing the 767's, what routes do they operate now

I can tell you that KLM send a 767 to Dar es Salaam every day. I assume that'll be an A330 in due course. (LX and EK already fly A332s in here.)
 
777klm
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:09 pm

And what about the current 767 AMS-LHR route? Will that one be replaced by an A332 too? A bit weird...  Confused
Next flight: AMS - TLV - AMS
 
STARalliance24
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:19 pm

Quoting Cxsjr (Reply 18):
So if they're replacing the 767's, what routes do they operate now as I'd love to fly one of the KLM 332's?

They also operate the 767 to Washington(KL651) and to Atlanta(KL621)
 
Catatonic
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:25 pm

Is the A333 a competitor to the 772? I thought the 772 had a much greater range than the A333.
Equally Cursed and Blessed.
 
777klm
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:29 pm

IAH (Houston), IAD, LHR, ATL, EWR, YVR, YUL, CAI, DAR (Dar Es Salaam), are current KL 767 destinations, please correct me if I'm wrong!



[Edited 2005-06-28 15:50:06]
Next flight: AMS - TLV - AMS
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:50 pm

Quoting Catatonic (Reply 23):
Is the A333 a competitor to the 772? I thought the 772 had a much greater range than the A333.

Somewhat a competitor. 333 is not as big though (exact size of a 343), and 772 has a much greater range, but only in the case of the 772ER. Some airlines (MH, CX, KE...) operate both on different kinds of routes, or even on similar regional routes.
When I doubt... go running!
 
Joost
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RE: KLM And The A330

Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:52 pm

There are a few more than the ones 777klm mentioned. Also ALA, the triangle flight AMS-KRT-ADD-AMS and most of the flights in the middle east like KWI, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dammam (not DXB) are flown with the 777. On some occasions, also LIS sees the 767.

The 332 will probably also serve LHR as it is a freight connecting flight from Africa to London.
 
cloud4000
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:08 am

Sounds like KLM is a prime candidate for the 787.
Boston, USA
 
gigneil
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:11 am

What does that have to do with our discussions of their not even delivered yet new fleet of A330s?

N
 
B742
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 26):
There are a few more than the ones 777klm mentioned. Also ALA, the triangle flight AMS-KRT-ADD-AMS and most of the flights in the middle east like KWI, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dammam (not DXB) are flown with the 777.

Don't you mean with the 767  Wink

When did KL switch DXB from the 763 to the M11?

Do KL plan to keep on any 767's or are they all due to go, if so when will the last aircraft leave the KLM fleet?

Rob!
 
777klm
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 29):
When did KL switch DXB from the 763 to the M11?

KL switched to 777, didn't they?
Next flight: AMS - TLV - AMS
 
777klm
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:56 am

Does anybody know if there are some photo's already of the KL A332? Sorry if it has already been posted, I'm new

[Edited 2005-06-28 17:59:03]
Next flight: AMS - TLV - AMS
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:10 am

Does anybody know if there are some photo's already of the KL A332? Sorry if it has already been posted, I'm new



there were some 2/3 weeks ago but on order of KLM they have been removed from the site it came from (a ROC school campus site)
 
AFinMIA
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:42 am

Does anyone know which destinations currently use the MD-11, and A330? Are There any on U.S. routes? Thanks in advance for the info.
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:20 am

Does anyone know which destinations currently use the MD-11


Aruba, Bonaire (2x a day), lima, Quito (ecuador) , Montreal (Montreal flights are often flown with 767/777) , vancouver, Entebbe, and soon to Dubai...

there are some more but can't remind me wich ones...

for the A330 the first city will be vancouver, so this will leave space for the MD-11 to do dubai, the second city served by A330 will be Washington!!!

ciao!
 
B742
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:28 am

Quoting 777klm (Reply 30):
KL switched to 777, didn't they?

Correct, DXB is currently served by one daily 772, but will soon to go to double daily M11, When will this happen?

Rob!
 
N77014
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 27):
Sounds like KLM is a prime candidate for the 787.

On routes that are too big for the A330, yet need cargo capacity with the wider cross section.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
ACDC8
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:48 am

Quoting 777klm (Reply 24):
IAH (Houston), IAD, LHR, ATL, EWR, YVR, YUL, CAI, DAR (Dar Es Salaam), are current KL 767 destinations, please correct me if I'm wrong!

YVR is B767 only in the winter, and MD11 service in the summer. I've been wondering about this a lot. It'll be interesting to see if they use the A330 year round, or only to either replace the B767 or MD11. Personaly, it's sad to see either the B767 or MD11 go, I've spent so much time on them, they will be missed. On the other hand, I love the A330 and can't wait to be aboard my first KL682 flight with the A330.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
AMSSFO
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 32):
there were some 2/3 weeks ago but on order of KLM they have been removed from the site it came from (a ROC school campus site)

They now can be found at http://www.speedwings.nl/main.htm!!
 
flyAUA
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 7):
....and the KL 767´s are to be scrapped???

No they're not getting scrapped yet. They are going to other airlines for now.

Quoting Catatonic (Reply 23):
Is the A333 a competitor to the 772? I thought the 772 had a much greater range than the A333.

If you compare the baseline models that came out within 5 years of eachother:

A333 Range (w/max. passengers): 5,650 nm
A332 Range (w/max. passengers): 6,750 nm
B772 Maximum Range: ????? nm [could not find it on boeing website?]
B773 Maximum Range: 5,955 nm

2 remarks:
-Is this data comparable? Boeing advertises it as "maximum range" and airbus advertises it as "range with maximum pax"... I am just curious! I think it is though and that it's all just marketing.
-Boeing now has the ER and LR derivatives which have improved ranges. Airbus has not done this with their A330. They opted for the new A350 instead.
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
flyyul
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RE: KLM And The A330

Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:17 am

KL 332 will not fly to YVR at first.

Newark and Washington-IAD are the first airports to receive the 332.

See travelocity
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
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RE: KLM And The A330

Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 26):
There are a few more than the ones 777klm mentioned. Also ALA, the triangle flight AMS-KRT-ADD-AMS and most of the flights in the middle east like KWI, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dammam (not DXB) are flown with the 777. On some occasions, also LIS sees the 767.

The AMS-KRT-ADD-AMS triangle is served by a 767, not a 777
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: KLM And The A330

Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:17 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 26):
On some occasions, also LIS sees the 767

Those must be very rare occasions, as I've never seen one here in the three years that I live in LIS now (except maybe Euro 2004 championships). I see the 737 day flight passing every day in front of my office, and also on the evening flight it's been always the 737. Maybe the summer-only 0230 flight, I don't know. Some years ago KL flew a triangle AMS-LIS-OPO-AMS and v.v. that was operated by MP in a 767. Right now this triangle still exists but is flown by HV in a 737.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
globetrekker
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RE: KLM And The A330

Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 32):
there were some 2/3 weeks ago but on order of KLM they have been removed from the site it came from (a ROC school campus site)

Yeah apparently he got in trouble with KLM for posting those pics.... but since I have no such issues, here they are..........
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/globetrekker79/2d1175d9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/globetrekker79/680414fc.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/globetrekker79/4e4aa70e.jpg

Globe Trekker
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: KLM And The A330

Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:08 pm

Very nice piccies GlobeTrekker, thx! Can't wait 'till the end of August!

BTW, how do you get non-a.net pictures into your posts? I've tried to copy-and-paste but it doesn't seem to work?
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
klmcedric
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RE: KLM And The A330

Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:23 pm

I hope KLM will deploy A-332's to epxlore new indian markets next year,after
they were granted more flights to the country.
Or is it more interesting to start new markets with the lowest capacity
wide-body, the 767-300ER and use the new bus on the more settled and proven
routes??
I gambled on this one as I had to chose between the A-332 and the 767 to
work on.
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM And The A330

Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:05 pm

hose must be very rare occasions, as I've never seen one here in the three years that I live in LIS now (except maybe Euro 2004 championships

well actually i flew the route 5 years ago on a 767... but for the last couple of years it hasn't been used much.


LIS will receive only 737's after the 767 is gone but LHR will get the 777 from what if heard... (until there are enough A330 i guess)
 
Transtar
Posts: 437
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RE: KLM And The A330

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:23 am

I'm flying on a KLM A330-200 on my trip to Israel in October. One of the early cities is IAD. I am flying IAD-AMS-TLV and back with the first leg on the Airbus.

If one can believe it, this will be my first trip on an Airbus widebody since I flew a couple times on a Continental Airlines A300 from Houston IAH to Newark and Seattle in the very early 1990s.

Can't wait to have the VOD feature!

Interestingly, KLM is not letting us make seat assignments until the middle of July. I am not sure if that is standard policy or because the planes haven't been delivered yet.

TranStar
 
A388
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RE: KLM And The A330

Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:13 am

Heey GlobeTrekker,

I know the person who posted those KL A332 photos and yes, he had to delete the photos from his website because of KL not being all that happy with those photos being posted there.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
KL will end up with a A332/772/MD11/744 (all pax and combi) longhaul fleet....over time, the MD11 maybe replaced by a mix of additional A332s and 772s, or possibily the larger versions of the 787 or A350 families, too soon to tell. There are no plans concerning a 744 replacement at this time.

Dutchjet, as far as I remember, a mix of the A332s and 777s on order will eventually replace KL's entire MD11 fleet, so it's not a matter of "if" but rather "when". The 777 and A332 order (plus options) was placed to replace KL's entire 743/MD11 and 763 fleet.

A388
 
globetrekker
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RE: KLM And The A330

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 48):
Heey GlobeTrekker,

I know the person who posted those KL A332 photos and yes, he had to delete the photos from his website because of KL not being all that happy with those photos being posted there.

Interesting and too bad actually. KLM as my employer has rules and regulations in place and I got into trouble a few times, like the time I posted a pic of myself in uniform in non-av and talking about things I should not talk about. They're members of this board who actually send emails to KLM telling on me! Childish! That's how they found out about the picture!
I am therefore very carefull on what I say and do.

Other times I was called in, but as I now know my rights I tell Management exactly where I stand and the freedoms I can enjoy. They are not happy, but they'll have to live with it. For instance... if I refer to a incident on a KLM flight, they want me to change the dates, flight number and destination! Quite ridiculous actually, considering that AUA has one flight a day and always the same flight number and destination...... what do they want me to say?
KL4567 AUA-LHR? Yeah because they really must think that people on this forum are dumb  dopey 
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page